TKR guys are way too harsh on Gavin

[NewJerseyGuy]

Athans resume isn’t that strong and he was slated to be replaced at Minnesota.

Athan Kaliakmanis 2023 Stats per Game - NCAAF - ESPN

The 2023 NCAAF season stats per game for Athan Kaliakmanis of the Minnesota Golden Gophers on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

Athan Kaliakmanis 2022 Stats per Game - NCAAF - ESPN

The 2022 NCAAF season stats per game for Athan Kaliakmanis of the Minnesota Golden Gophers on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

You can take a look at his stats yourself.

You really seem to be unreasonably biased against Athan.

Al, what’s going on here?

Seems to be more than meets the eye.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

It’s funny I never heard about the adjusted completion % until now. Do you also subtract the 50/50 jump balls that WRs made the catch? These guys are neck and neck. I just hope whoever isn’t the starter stays.

Adjusted completion % accounts for dropped balls and passes thrown away IIRC.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Unless they are losing their starting job to a transfer.

ETA I fully expect him to transfer again if he doesn’t get the start.

Unlikely to occur, he's also here as a package deal with his brother who is a WR. RU was the only visit they made once entering the portal.

This tells you it was a planned move and RU reached out to them via backchannels prior to them entering the portal.

 

[koleszar]

Gavin has 11 rushing TDs ( 3 more than Mongo) and is tied for 6th among P5 QBs.

That’s a horsesh*t stat and you know it. 6 of the 11 rushing touchdowns were from inside the two. Give those carries to Monangai instead and that narrative is flipped.

 

[RU-05]

A B1G starter doesn't transfer to be a backup at the next school.

I'd say that they don't transfer with the intent of being a backup. But it certainly can happen.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

I'd say that they don't transfer with the intent of being a backup. But it certainly can happen.

If they don't produce that should be the expectation.

 

[Knight Shift]

Found some articles by the Gophers' beat writer Scoggins. It's like a tale of two cities, Minnesota and Piscataway, with the same QB playing for Greg's protege and his old OC, now playing for Greg and his old OC.

Scoggins was drooling over Athan after the 2022 win over Wisconsin:

"The Gophers have a young quarterback with a cannon arm and a reservoir of confidence.
Freshman quarterback Athan Kaliakmanis had his official welcome party in a steely outing that proved he can be trusted to drive the offense."

Fleck and offensive coordinator Kirk Ciarrocca unleashed Kaliakmanis with a game plan that was unshackled from the run-dominated approach that has become the hallmark of this coaching staff.

The coaches trusted Kaliakmanis to pass repeatedly — in all situations — and stuck with it even when the results weren't positive. That commitment to balance made the offense unpredictable, created explosive plays and allowed Kaliakmanis and his receivers to establish a rhythm.
Finally.
Kaliakmanis' maturity and physical skills provide the foundation for an offense that must evolve next season. The Gophers finished near the bottom of college football in pass attempts in 2021 and again this season. That cannot happen again next season.

New quarterback Athan Kaliakmanis delivered, and Gophers have a new offense for the future

The freshman played with skill and poise as the Gophers focused on the pass and kept Paul Bunyan's Axe.

www.startribune.com

Then, Kirk left, and 2023 happened:
Fleck didn't trust his quarterback in that spot — the 12th game of the season with nothing to lose — which is a major problem. He didn't trust him because Kaliakmanis didn't earn that trust.

Most expected Kaliakmanis to experience growing pains in his first season as the full-time starter. But his accuracy issues became a season-long problem that should push Fleck to search the transfer portal for a quarterback.

The offense will never function with efficiency with so much inconsistency in the passing game. One critical drive in the second half stalled when Kaliakmanis airmailed a third-down pass to Elijah Spencer. That happened far too often this season.

Quarterback play wasn't the only problem though. Receivers dropped an inordinate number of passes, which had a demoralizing effect when paired with Kaliakmanis' inconsistency.

 

[koleszar]

It’s funny I never heard about the adjusted completion % until now. Do you also subtract the 50/50 jump balls that WRs made the catch? These guys are neck and neck. I just hope whoever isn’t the starter stays.

Just so you know Minnesota had the second worst drop rate in P5 football this year. So the whole narrative that Athan was throwing to better receivers is bullsh*t.

 

[tico brown]

The MN transfer isn’t much of a runner is he at 94 yards on the season (assume that number is net of sack yardage)? If I’m Ajani Shephard (sp?) I’m questioning roles and the plan for the offense. Dual threat or drop back passer.

Time for him to transfer. Between these two QBs and the chosen one AJ, this kid has no shot.

 

[Knight Shift]

Found the rutgersal of the Gophers' board right here, and some of the replies sound familiar:

Shama: Fans are often impatient but Gophers’ redshirt sophomore QB Athan Kaliakmanis deserves understanding.

Per Shama: Fans are often impatient but Gophers’ redshirt sophomore QB Athan Kaliakmanis deserves understanding. Going back to his junior year of high school in Illinois he missed part of the schedule because of injury. COVID dictated a reduced senior season schedule in the spring of 2021...

gopherhole.com

Some comments by Gophers' fans on his commitment:

wouldn't be surprised to see them being a 2 QB system or Wimsatt moving into more of a Green Line role if he's willing. However Wimsatt offers a whole lot more dynamic a threat both running and passing than AK with where they're at right now
-----------
No offense, but should have followed KC there in the first place. Likely loyalty to Fleck kept him here for 23.

KC recruited him, KC knows how to get him not to badly overthrow or throw balls into the dirt.

When he does well again at Rutgers, we’ll have proof that Harbaugh screwed up AK as badly as Sanford did Morgan.
-------------

The Rutgers move doesn't entirely surprise me, but the bolded part is what I thought was the biggest detriment to it happening.

He might be a better passer than Wimsatt, but I think Wimsatt was probably the better overall player. Wimsatt ran for almost 500 yards with 11 rushing TDs.

As you said, there is a 50/50 chance he starts next year and Wimsatt is only a SO.
-------------

He'll do fine out there until one of the coaches yells at him. Perhaps the coaches out there know that they have to wear white gloves around him.
----------------
As far as Kaliakmanis, I hope he figures it out. I know a lot of people who watched him in practice said he had real talent, but for some reason, it just didn't come out in games. whether that is on him or the coaching staff remains to be determined.

Has AK landed with a new team?

As a person who would fit in the category outlined above, I was not offended Luckily for the rest of us decent folks, you don't get to speak for them.

gopherhole.com

 

[TRU2RU]

Just so you know Minnesota had the second worst drop rate in P5 football this year. So the whole narrative that Athan was throwing to better receivers is bullsh*t.

Or maybe AK does not throw a catchable ball

 

[rutgersdave]

It sounds like the podcast was a little harsh but they are probably giving you their true opinion. I was more happy about AK ability because they see more football and have some more expertise about QB abilities. I believe they mention there will be competition for the starting position.

I trusted the coaches that Gavin was the best QB that we have and I trust they will pick the best QB in 2024.

 

[brgRC90]

Who decides how hard is too hard? It's an undeniable fact that he was a very low rated QB and hugely overthrew more than a few passes per game. A dual threat QB is only a dual threat if he's a danger to complete more than half a dozen passes in a game, otherwise he's a rushing QB, a RB who can throw a little, in which case you better run as well as Tim Tebow.

 

[RU#1fan]

Gavin has 11 rushing TDs ( 3 more than Mongo) and is tied for 6th among P5 QBs.
Many RU fans wanted a dual option QB and then they got one.
Yet he never gets to run as much as he probably should (and as much as TV crews expect).
Now some are excited for a QB who is not much better passing.
You want the Subaru with Limited trim package or Limited XT?
Both are still Subarus

Dual option yes.. however only one of them is a consistent option.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Or maybe AK does not throw a catchable ball

No that’s not the case. Athan’s percentages have been consistently very good to perfect against the cupcakes which means when he has time he can throw accurately. 3 for 3 vs WI. 12 for 14 vs Louisiana. 10 for 15 vs Eastern Michigan. 25 of 32 overall. Never worse than 66% in those games and 78% overall.

For perspective, Gavin has never thrown better than 63.2% in any game where he had more than one pass attempt. He completed 50% of his combined passes in the 4 games vs Temple and Wagner.

It’s really hard to compare QB stats on different teams but accuracy vs. cupcakes (i.e. passes without pressure to wide open receivers) should be apples to apples.

 

[Knight Shift]

It sounds like the podcast was a little harsh but they are probably giving you their true opinion. I was more happy about AK ability because they see more football and have some more expertise about QB abilities. I believe they mention there will be competition for the starting position.

I trusted the coaches that Gavin was the best QB that we have and I trust they will pick the best QB in 2024.

Speaking of opinions, here is a Gophers' podcast take:

 

[socaldave]

The kid found a way to win 7 games and they act like he’s Chris Laviano.

Also in their latest podcast they talk about how Kaliakmanis is way better than Gavin if you account for adjusted pass rate (which accounts for dropped balls) because Kaliakmanis is at 66%, only to find out that Gavin’s adjusted rate is at 57%

Not that massive of a difference fellas.

I continue to be astonished by these the emperor has clothes post.
Seriously as I said in a previous post it’s a twilight zone episode.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

It sounds like the podcast was a little harsh but they are probably giving you their true opinion. I was more happy about AK ability because they see more football and have some more expertise about QB abilities. I believe they mention there will be competition for the starting position.

I trusted the coaches that Gavin was the best QB that we have and I trust they will pick the best QB in 2024.

Who has more expertise about QB's? The mods? They might have seen them more because of practice. But they don't have any expertise about the position more than anyone here. Lol

 

[rutgersfan1766]

Found the rutgersal of the Gophers' board right here, and some of the replies sound familiar:

Shama: Fans are often impatient but Gophers’ redshirt sophomore QB Athan Kaliakmanis deserves understanding.

Per Shama: Fans are often impatient but Gophers’ redshirt sophomore QB Athan Kaliakmanis deserves understanding. Going back to his junior year of high school in Illinois he missed part of the schedule because of injury. COVID dictated a reduced senior season schedule in the spring of 2021...

gopherhole.com

Some comments by Gophers' fans on his commitment:

wouldn't be surprised to see them being a 2 QB system or Wimsatt moving into more of a Green Line role if he's willing. However Wimsatt offers a whole lot more dynamic a threat both running and passing than AK with where they're at right now
-----------
No offense, but should have followed KC there in the first place. Likely loyalty to Fleck kept him here for 23.

KC recruited him, KC knows how to get him not to badly overthrow or throw balls into the dirt.

When he does well again at Rutgers, we’ll have proof that Harbaugh screwed up AK as badly as Sanford did Morgan.
-------------

The Rutgers move doesn't entirely surprise me, but the bolded part is what I thought was the biggest detriment to it happening.

He might be a better passer than Wimsatt, but I think Wimsatt was probably the better overall player. Wimsatt ran for almost 500 yards with 11 rushing TDs.

As you said, there is a 50/50 chance he starts next year and Wimsatt is only a SO.
-------------

He'll do fine out there until one of the coaches yells at him. Perhaps the coaches out there know that they have to wear white gloves around him.
----------------
As far as Kaliakmanis, I hope he figures it out. I know a lot of people who watched him in practice said he had real talent, but for some reason, it just didn't come out in games. whether that is on him or the coaching staff remains to be determined.

Has AK landed with a new team?

As a person who would fit in the category outlined above, I was not offended Luckily for the rest of us decent folks, you don't get to speak for them.

gopherhole.com

Have a friend that coaches HS football in MN and he said many of these same things. He and I went to the RU at Minny game in 2022.

I cancelled my subscription to this site because of the anti Gavin bias from the podcast.

If they painted a more objective picture of the situation that both QBs are similar and have pros and cons based on what is needed I'd feel less strongly about my position.

Rooting for Gavin to beat out Athan!!!

Let's go Gavin!

 

[ashokan]

Most of those touchdowns were at the goal line and in those situations they usually go to the rb. Kyle should have, in fairness, been given the ball for some of those.

I've been watching RU football long enough to know RU's goal line and red zone offenses are pretty lame historically. Many RZ trips end with FGs.

This year RU played 4 B1G teams among top ten total defenses nationally (PSU, OSU, Iowa, Michigan). Total RU points vs them totaled 29 - about 7 points per game. Of course they are all keying on KM, and all with the ability to stuff. Cant allow RU to get predictable with KM with RU's schedule.

Wimst is actually a good runner in the open and in tight which is part of why he had some top offers. Other teams would have had him running much more but RU is about training wheels for WM. Keep in mind he gave-up his senior year of HS ball so he's more like a soph in cfb.. The fact he only had one multiple INT game (2 vs MSU) in B1G is pretty good.


Here is a tOSU goal play where the whole defense was keying Mongo. RU tried to be slick and have Wimst run behind KM blocking. Ohio sniffed out the whole play, and Wimst was blasted by defender with 10 yd running start (announcers called it "tremendous hit"). But Wimst took the hit and kept moving to end zone but Mongo muffed the block. The next play was a pass to Rudy and he got stuffed, This is typical RU red zone weakness but Wimst did good.

 

[jtung230]

Just so you know Minnesota had the second worst drop rate in P5 football this year. So the whole narrative that Athan was throwing to better receivers is bullsh*t.

Did you see the highlight package? Those WRs made some sick plays on 50/50 balls.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I've been watching RU football long enough to know RU's goal line and red zone offenses are pretty lame historically. Many RZ trips end with FGs.

This year RU played 4 B1G teams among top ten total defenses nationally (PSU, OSU, Iowa, Michigan). Total RU points vs them totaled 29 - about 7 points per game. Of course they are all keying on KM, and all with the ability to stuff. Cant allow RU to get predictable with KM with RU's schedule.

Wimst is actually a good runner in the open and in tight which is part of why he had some top offers. Other teams would have had him running much more but RU is about training wheels for WM. Keep in mind he gave-up his senior year of HS ball so he's more like a soph in cfb.. The fact he only had one multiple INT game (2 vs MSU) in B1G is pretty good.


Here is a tOSU goal play where the whole defense was keying Mongo. RU tried to be slick and have Wimst run behind KM blocking. Ohio sniffed out the whole play, and Wimst was blasted by defender with 10 yd running start (announcers called it "tremendous hit"). But Wimst took the hit and kept moving to end zone but Mongo muffed the block. The next play was a pass to Rudy and he got stuffed, This is typical RU red zone weakness but Wimst did good.

All of this might be true on a play here or there. Maybe that one series you point to wasn’t Gavin’s fault. But the reality is, it doesn’t change the fact that he couldn’t even complete half his passes against Temple and barely did so (63%) against Wagner. Simple pass routes are a real problem for him. On paper Athan is much more reliable with those.

In 2022 you couldn’t really blame Gavin because he didn’t have many opportunities where he wasn’t pressured. The line blocked for him better though in 2023 and he blew it on many opportunities where he had a ton of time. Now - did he have more time because defenses expected the run with both him and KM in the game. That’s what Al would have you think but I think any truth to this theory is a) very minor and b) overstates Gavin’s running ability relative to Athan’s. In Kirk’s system (apples to apples) with a better OL, Athan rushed for for 140 yards on only 34 attempts (he didn’t start that many games) as a redshirt frosh. That’s not only not a statue but actually more yards per carry than Gavin averaged this season.

 

[krup]

The kid found a way to win 7 games and they act like he’s Chris Laviano.

Also in their latest podcast they talk about how Kaliakmanis is way better than Gavin if you account for adjusted pass rate (which accounts for dropped balls) because Kaliakmanis is at 66%, only to find out that Gavin’s adjusted rate is at 57%

Not that massive of a difference fellas.

Not that massive of a difference?

The difference between the highest ranked NFL QB in completion percentage (Tua) and one of the worst NFL QBs ranked #32 (Zac Wilson) is that same 9%.

 

[NY AGENTMAN]

I have been critical of GW but in all fairness his WR room is not very good. Drennel is a nice slot guy but no deep speed and no TE to throw to is hurting his performance

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I have been critical of GW but in all fairness his WR room is not very good. Drennel is a nice slot guy but no deep speed and no TE to throw to is hurting his performance

Against Temple? Wagner? Come on.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I have been critical of GW but in all fairness his WR room is not very good. Drennel is a nice slot guy but no deep speed and no TE to throw to is hurting his performance

it's not the receivers and to think so is a fallacy in the analysis. He has trouble with even simple routes

 

[jtung230]

All of this might be true on a play here or there. Maybe that one series you point to wasn’t Gavin’s fault. But the reality is, it doesn’t change the fact that he couldn’t even complete half his passes against Temple and barely did so (63%) against Wagner. Simple pass routes are a real problem for him. On paper Athan is much more reliable with those.

In 2022 you couldn’t really blame Gavin because he didn’t have many opportunities where he wasn’t pressured. The line blocked for him better though in 2023 and he blew it on many opportunities where he had a ton of time. Now - did he have more time because defenses expected the run with both him and KM in the game. That’s what Al would have you think but I think any truth to this theory is a) very minor and b) overstates Gavin’s running ability relative to Athan’s. In Kirk’s system (apples to apples) with a better OL, Athan rushed for for 140 yards on only 34 attempts (he didn’t start that many games) as a redshirt frosh. That’s not only not a statue but actually more yards per carry than Gavin averaged this season.

On paper, they are similar. If you start making excuses, AK is much more reliable.

 

[rutgersal]

Of course, you're going to see Al spam tons of BS about Kaliakmanis over the coming days/weeks because Greg & Kirk just destroyed his whole offseason storyline and the dozen threads he started creating in his mind.

No one has to BS about Kaliakmanis. His full record speaks for itself. Not cherry-picked slices of data, which you and others who think like you, are using to gaslight the rest of us. In two years of action, he has one truly standout game, the Wisconsin game which is being used to extrapolate the rest of his career, which is complete nonsense.

 

[rutgersdave]

No one has to BS about Kaliakmanis. His full record speaks for itself. Not cherry-picked slices of data, which you and others who think like you, are using to gaslight the rest of us. In two years of action, he has one truly standout game, the Wisconsin game which is being used to extrapolate the rest of his career, which is complete nonsense.

You wanted the big raise for Schiano so let him do his job and decide who starts. We need to support the decision instead of arguing over every decision.

There’s two easy OOC games where both can play and the decision can be made afterward unless someone is overwhelming better in practice.

 

[tico brown]

This is the Rutgers for the 2024 and 2025 seasons.

2022: 60-111, 946, 2-3
2023: 156-294, 1838, 14-9
Total: 216-405, 2784, 16-12

 

[bitnez]

Put me in the camp with the fans who are confused by the reaction to AK committing. If hes not good, Gavin and his supporters have nothing to worry about. We’ve had the worst QB play in P5 for 2 years so I’m willing to try anything at this point to get better.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Listen to the podcast, they basically had no competition when Gavin was named the starter this year.

So if the OC brings his prior QB from his last stop in, read the tea leaves.

It will go exactly how the "supposed Art Sitkowski/McClane Carter" competition went. You remember that one right? Art was in the lead all the way until the final week of training camp and then suddenly Carter jumped him. It was all a sham.

A B1G starter doesn't transfer to be a backup at the next school.

Listen, I hear you...I'm not taking what the podcasts guys say at face value anymore. Lol all summer I heard how the basketball team was full of shooters and this team would be offensively better than last year..womp womp. Pretty sure coaches would lose the team if they don't give Gavin a fair shot. I'm telling you his teammates love him. You see how guys are passing up the NFL to come back. It's not because they think wimsatt sucks. They want to I run it back.

 

[WhiteBus]

There’s two easy OOC games where both can play and the decision can be made afterward unless someone is overwhelming better in practice.

Didn't happen this year. GW had 289 pass attempts and a 47.75% completion rate.
The other two had 5 passes combined and a combined completion rate of 80%.
You didn't hear me asking for Schiano getting a big raise. I've said let's see after next year.
The were many games this year to get either one of them more playing time.

 

[bitnez]

Listen, I hear you...I'm not taking what the podcasts guys say at face value anymore. Lol all summer I heard how the basketball team was full of shooters and this team would be offensively better than last year..womp womp. Pretty sure coaches would lose the team if they don't give Gavin a fair shot. I'm telling you his teammates love him. You see how guys are passing up the NFL to come back. It's not because they think wimsatt sucks. They want to I run it back.

So the guys don't want Miller? He's likely be our best WR next year. What about a potential TE in the portal or even the kid from NY at the position? I am sure they like Gavin -- I've never heard anything but good about him as a person and teammate -- but these guys just want to win. If someone can do the job better than Gavin they will rally and support him too.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Put me in the camp with the fans who are confused by the reaction to AK committing. If hes not good, Gavin and his supporters have nothing to worry about. We’ve had the worst QB play in P5 for 2 years so I’m willing to try anything at this point to get better.

Its the off-season and I tend to stay away from the football board because there is a lot more trolling over here. But are gavins fans separate from Rutgers fans? Think they are just Rutgers fans that have seen their first winning season in a decade. The anti Gavin contingent seems alot more irrational to me. There's an idea that the coaches started wimsatt over Simon because idk. They wanted to play the worse QB because they knew monangai and the offensive line were top notch and the defense would be stout. So they just started wimsatt because he's........ ignore that sentiment and think logically..

 

[Jerseylegends]

But a transfer was definitely needed will he be better than Gav, remains to be seen. Wimsatt did nothing to guarantee himself the starting job plus you need a capable back up..let things play out, the best option for the team will play .

 

[bitnez]

Its the off-season and I tend to stay away from the football board because there is a lot more trolling over here. But are giving fans separate from Rutgers fans? Think they are just Rutgers fans that have seen their first winning season in a decade. The anti Gavin contingent seems alot more irrational to me. There's an idea that the coaches started wimsatt over Simon because idk. They wanted to play the worse QB because they knew monangai and the offensive line were top notch and the defense would be stout. So they just started wimsatt because he's........ ignore that sentiment and think logically..

Gavin has been rated as the worst QB in P5 over the last 2 years. To me, it's irrational not to look to improve the position. Heck, we should be looking to improve every position every off season. I don't know if AK is the answer, but I do believe Gavin hasn't done enough to have earned blind support from the fans.

 

[Jerseylegends]

So the t

So the guys don't want Miller? He's likely be our best WR next year. What about a potential TE in the portal or even the kid from NY at the position? I am sure they like Gavin -- I've never heard anything but good about him as a person and teammate -- but these guys just want to win. If someone can do the job better than Gavin they will rally and support him too.

It's why I said "a fair shot"..if the transfer is better he's better.

 

[satnom]

I wish we had a season from the QB position like the 2015 Laviano.

80% of his passes were to one wr (Caroo).

GO RU

 

[RUTGERS95]

Listen, I hear you...I'm not taking what the podcasts guys say at face value anymore. Lol all summer I heard how the basketball team was full of shooters and this team would be offensively better than last year..womp womp. Pretty sure coaches would lose the team if they don't give Gavin a fair shot. I'm telling you his teammates love him. You see how guys are passing up the NFL to come back. It's not because they think wimsatt sucks. They want to I run it back.

couple of things;
1.none of our guys are grading high on drafts boards so coming back is smart
2.our guys are getting NIL to come back, win win for them
3.Gave was pegged as starter, no real comp and it was the loudest whisper in the program
4.coaches aren't losing the team as everyone sees Gav strengths and weakness and these kids want to compete
5.bball team needs to jell and Pike need to tweak the o set. also, bball isn't football