Aaron Rodgers
- Thread starter Caliknight
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football is a massive team roster compared to other sports. I don't judge rings for those guys the same as I do for individual sports or small roster sports like hoops. There is simply too much not in their control, like the whole other side of the ball. Brady is incredible. Brady without his coach and D wouldn't be Brady if he played for the Jaguars. From arm strength, athleticism, accuracy, control of the offense and yes winning, Rodgers is the best I have seen.
Nolan Ryan is arguably the best pitcher ever. Is he less because he only has one WS ring?
Disagree, Ryan is a great analogy. How can you not consider him one of the greatest pitchers? He just happened to play on a lot of bad teams. Some stats that jump off the page
- Pitched in the majors for 27+ years
- 324 wins in 773 starts, 222 complete games
- 5714 strikeouts
- 7 no hitters
Holy crap, this is the dumbest thing ever said about baseball. Nolan Ryan? Just when I was starting to warm to CK lol.
Nolan Ryan was a great pitcher who pitched for a long time. Slam dunk Hall of Famer.
However, Nolan Ryan isn't even close to "arguably" the best ever. I mean I guess you could argue it if you want people who know about baseball to laugh at you.
Hell we watched four pitchers with our own eyes during the steroid era who were far better than Ryan.
According the baseball almanac there are over 200 pitchers with lower lifetime ERA's than Ryan, who, while a great pitcher was hardly the best ever. As far as Brady versus Rogers - both super great as was Montana, Marino, Staubach, etc. Is there one stat that can be used to judge QB's besides outcomes like we use ERA to judge pitchers rather than wins and losses which is the result of the entire team? IDK
A- Brady is better
B- Rogers has one playoff win since his lone Super Bowl (against the Vikings who were using a WR as QB), and has been an atrocity in the 2 NFC championships that he's played in. Against Seattle lat season he started a drive in Seattle territory about 5 times and couldn't cash in for 7.
B- Rogers has one playoff win since his lone Super Bowl (against the Vikings who were using a WR as QB), and has been an atrocity in the 2 NFC championships that he's played in. Against Seattle lat season he started a drive in Seattle territory about 5 times and couldn't cash in for 7.
Ryan was obviously an awesome pitcher --and it was amazing he was still a power pitcher well into his 40s, but I wouldn't say he was a top 20 all-time pitcher. When looking at Adjusted ERA+ (takes into account the ballparks where a pitcher pitched and a pitcher's ERA relative to overall ERA), Ryan is tied for 274th all-time.
As for using SB victories as a measure of a QB, would we say Eli is better than Peyton?
So, based on that logic we must look at people like Bob Griese, Bart Starr, and Terry Bradshaw. Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning, both won two SuperBowls, how about them? And, the two most dominating QB's of their age, Otto Graham or Johnny Unitas no SuperBowls, but plenty of wins.
Of course if the SuperBowl is our guiding light, then we must include both Joe Montana, and Tom Brady.
Whatever individual allegiance you may have to be fair a QB must have certain qualities above any other. I am not going to get into what they should be, but they should be applied unilaterally to all QB's and based on those findings, a QB for all ages will emerge. And then, we of course will throw all that out the window and pick our own favorites.
Jon Gruden wax discussing this on MNF last night and explained both times AR lost in nfc cg he was injured
Was about to post the same thing. Both times playing injured prevented AR from doing what makes him great...extending plays with his legs (both passes and runs).
Use any pitcher. It's not about Nolan Ryan.
Trent Dilfer is as good as Peyton Manning. He has a Super Bowl.
Trent Dilfer is as good as Peyton Manning. He has a Super Bowl.
The issue is that you have elite QBs that also have multiple rings like Brady, Elway and Aikman, which is why Peyton Manning and Rodgers will get some grief without an additional ring. It also doesn't help that QB is by far the most important position in the game today with the way the rules are so pro passing and anti defense.
With regards to Ryan, it doesn't make sense to compare a pitcher that pitches 1 every 5 days to QB.
With regards to Ryan, it doesn't make sense to compare a pitcher that pitches 1 every 5 days to QB.
There is no issue. It's my opinion.
Fine, use a position player who is good that didn't win. You can do the same with say, a running back. Ray Rice better than Barry Sanders? He has a ring.
Personally, I think the ring debate is only relevant to compare players at the same level, which is why Barry Sanders vs Ray Rice is not even a conversation.
Of the major team sports, 1 player has the most impact in basketball, but football is becoming a close second because how important QB has become above other positions.
It was a different era so comparisons are difficult but it's hard not to consider Cy young the best pitcher ever just because he won (far) more games than most pitchers in the last 100 years have merely started.
I said this when I watched him in college. As a 49ers fan I'm still angry as hell that Mike Nolan was a f'n moron and took Alex Smith.
AR is very good. But he's also in an incredible system.
Look how good Eli looks in the same system.
Rodgers isn't in the top ten of all time yet He's probably not in the top 5 of his time in the league either. Payton, Brady, farve, brees, and roethlisbuger are ahead of him right now. The argument could be made to put Eli ahead of him too only because Eli has beaten him on the way to his 2 super bowl wins.
Look how good Eli looks in the same system.
Rodgers isn't in the top ten of all time yet He's probably not in the top 5 of his time in the league either. Payton, Brady, farve, brees, and roethlisbuger are ahead of him right now. The argument could be made to put Eli ahead of him too only because Eli has beaten him on the way to his 2 super bowl wins.
You can't lose to Kaepernick twice (once at home), Eli at home, and vs an aging Kurt Warner 10 years after he won his only SB, and blow a 2nd half 16-0 lead in NFC championship game last year. All these quarterbacks are not in Rodgers class but he still didn't get it done. Elite regular season quarterback similar to Peyton in his prime but he's got to stop losing to these guys who are clearly below him when it matters most.
All that list proves is that many fans are dumb.
Nolan Ryan was great and a legend for his oft unhittable stuff...but the guy has almost as much black ink in walks as he does in strikeouts. He has more walks than anyone in history by a margin even wider than his strikeout lead.
Ryan is somewhere in the Top 20.
So another words, not really that crazy. Glad you agree.
I am no Ryan fan, nor do I care about baseball. It was just an example. A reasonable example.
They guy played for 200 years. I would think he would hold lots of dubious distinctions, considering.
Yes, it is crazy to suggest he is arguably the best ever. Stone cold crazy. Only a baseball ignoramus could make that argument. Top 20 is not close to best ever.
And I'm not just talking about his career totals. I specifically mentioned his black ink for walks. Black ink up and down the BB column.
You're not a baseball guy so fine. No big deal. But that's the story.
In the words of Fatty Francesa, Ryan was a "compilah"
If you did a draft of the GOAT pitchers, you'd have drunk a 12 pack, taken 3 leaks, eaten 4 dozen wings, smoked a half dozen cigars, got an oil change in your car, made a Costco run, shingled your roof, dropped a deuce, skinned a deer and unclogged your sink drain before Nolan Ryan's name would be called.
If you did a draft of the GOAT pitchers, you'd have drunk a 12 pack, taken 3 leaks, eaten 4 dozen wings, smoked a half dozen cigars, got an oil change in your car, made a Costco run, shingled your roof, dropped a deuce, skinned a deer and unclogged your sink drain before Nolan Ryan's name would be called.
And winning matters for QBs.
If you want to argue he has the best physical tools of all time (though I would still disagree) you certainly could. But you can't make the argument for GOAT with only one ring and his middling play-off record.
And every QB in the GOAT conversation has a pretty damn good to LOCK HOF coach--except Peyton. Which is a testament to Peyton's greatness.
If you want to argue he has the best physical tools of all time (though I would still disagree) you certainly could. But you can't make the argument for GOAT with only one ring and his middling play-off record.
And every QB in the GOAT conversation has a pretty damn good to LOCK HOF coach--except Peyton. Which is a testament to Peyton's greatness.
Are we talking playoffs? If so that is a falsehood.
Look no one should now be arguing Rogers is the best ever. But he might be the best in the game at the moment, though Brady(who has a strong argument for best ever) would say otherwise.
And like Peyton, Rogers will need to win more then one SuperBowl to win the debate. The relative lack of superbowls is the only thing keeping Peyton from easily sitting on thrown as best ever, and same could be said for Marino. Whether we say he same for Rogers remains to be seen.
Graham and Unitas both won NFL titles before the Super bowl era. So merely semantics in saying they never won the "super bowl". (although Unitas did also win a superbowl in split duty as an old man).
