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An Illustration of how great the odds are against us

If Rutgers would had fired Flood before he ever coached in the Big Ten we wouldn't had the worst team in the Big Ten right now.

Blame that on the donors who got cold feet after Flood beat a terrible USF.

Ash really has his work cut out for him to get us out of this hole.
 
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where were the donors(and Barchi) to give the go ahead and money to hire a proven power five head coach last season..like Narduzzi when they had the chance?
 
Interesting. As an outsider, would have thought you guys would be worried about the loss of Armstrong. Did not realize you guys were changing offensive scheme.

Riley has a little more of a power run pro style with a few spread aspects but having dual threat QB who is way more run than pass isn't what he recruits. The next 2 in line are very much pro style. The current commit is also a pro style kid. The purge of the Pelini kids for the most part can't come quick enough for about 80% of them. There are/were some kids who had talent but the vast majority were also very soft and lazy. The only ones left after this year are the cream of what was here. Armstrong was a very tough hard working player as was Westerkamp but they were by far the exception instead of the rule. We shall see how it all turns out.
 
The point, therefore, is not to indulge in the game day histrionics on message boards or comments sections, and focus on the capital building process.

Think Brad Pitt's Billy Beane in Moneyball. "I never watch the games." Or Sun Tzu: "every battle is won before it's fought."

We've agreed to compete in a league for 7 years under unfair competitive circumstances, already forgetting the standard competitive disadvantages of the league in which we compete (no "salary cap," no talent draft, geared toward sustaining the "status quo" ...), so the idea that Rutgers should or can be competitive on the field or court against teams that enjoy such rich advantages seems rather astounding. Kind of ridiculous, actually. The Big Ten is already reaping the rewards of the New York City DMA -- which, as anyone will tell you -- is the only reason we're in the conference. If the conference is already seeing its dividends, it seems patently unfair that we're not.

With that in mind, I tend to keep my focus on shovels and cranes rather than whether or not we can convert on third-and-short. Rutgers is not a championship athletic department, and it won't be without facilities. Not a facilities plan, but actual facilities.

For the first time in years, I like the leadership I have in Piscataway, rather than being merely loyal to them, no matter what. If Hobbs had been able to go out and raise $75MM in a year to fund Rutgers Athletics' capital ambitions, I might have said, "yes, we should start winning immediately." The fact that this effort is going to take longer than that goes hand-in-hand with the notion that "winning" is a longer build as well, and it's easier to gauge progress in bricks and mortar than it is in wins and losses.
 
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The NJ area is filled with bandwagon fans. Remember in 2006 when all of these Rutgers fans came out if the woodwork? I was still in high school and Rutgers football became all the talk with Schiano, Ray Rice etc. Suddenly Rutgers became cool. NJ is itching for a successful Rutgers sports program. Rutgers needs to string a few successful season together. They need to become the hot thing in NJ again and the support will come.
Bingo.
 
Look at it another way. A school nearly gets the death penalty for hiding the worse sex scandal in sports history, a total embarrassment,has scholarships taken away for several years,and wins the BIG TEN East.Go figure.
That's because the institution buys into the idea of WINNING!!!! Also the donors are powerful enough to probably enforce a vote of no confidence in order to oust a President or AD. Look at what we pay for a HC and Coordinators. We here at Rutgers are always looking for winner at bargin basement prices, that very rarely ever happens, hence, a 2-10 record.
 
I don't think that idea would fly.

You have several rating services with varying star results. I think the 85 scholarship limit is the best one can hope for in this regard.

In the old days teams could have 120 recruits or more on their team.
Vacuum cleaner the state of all good players to prevent your competition from getting any.

Limiting money and coaching poaching is the way to go in my opinion.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

The first idea has potential but you'd probably have to apply a location factor. For example, it's been made clear that construction in NJ is far more expensive compared to some other parts of the country. Or how much more expensive it is to get kids to visit Nebraska because of location.

I don't see how you can limit a coaches ability to move to a better job though.
 
So Michigan has a 9 million a year head coach. They have tons of self-generated revenue on top of full B1G revenue. Their resources are practically limitless. They've famously raided and obtained NJ's best recruits for the past 2-3 years. A pair of top 5 recruiting class and what looks to be another top 5 recruiting class this February. Those classes were preceded by top 25 class after top 25 class. They have a humongous fan base and tremendous history. They have everything at their disposal to succeed.

And yet, they can't even win their division to get to the conference championship. That is how competitive the B1G East is.
This is why I laugh when some of our more delusional fans post that they expect 9-3 seasons soon. In the Big Ten East, expecting 9 wins is ridiculous. Hoping for it each season is okay; expecting it is not facing reality.

It can happen for us, but probably not real soon. And it will require consecutive years of great recruiting, great playing, great coaching, and great luck.
 
Yes..this was not lost on me last night as I watch PSU rout MSU. CFB is really a rigged system. It's rigged in favor of the "rich" teams. There needs to be some way to level the playing field so teams like RU, IN and IL can get their fair share of talented recruits like the pros do it with the worst teams picking ahead of the better teams. Not sure how you would go about that but something needs to change.

Can't speak to Rutgers, but Indiana has always had trouble with football because of its basketball emphasis and two other Division I programs (Purdue and that team in South Bend) in a state that produces relatively few Division I football prospects. Illinois's athletic department has been chaos for the past few years. The Illini should be much better in both football and BB than they have been in recent years. In basketball, they're the equivalent of Rutgers in football — great in-state talent, but you can't keep any of it in state. Jon Scheyer and Jabari Parker, both Illinois guys to Duke, are just two of many BB examples I can think of off the top of my head. There probably could be things done to level the field, but some damage is simply self-inflicted.
 
where were the donors(and Barchi) to give the go ahead and money to hire a proven power five head coach last season..like Narduzzi when they had the chance?


the donors could have put up the money for Narduzzi or Herman in 2013 but they insisted that the hire couldnt be an assistant...so so stupid we got a lesser assistant for money two years later
 
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This is why I laugh when some of our more delusional fans post that they expect 9-3 seasons soon. In the Big Ten East, expecting 9 wins is ridiculous. Hoping for it each season is okay; expecting it is not facing reality.

It can happen for us, but probably not real soon. And it will require consecutive years of great recruiting, great playing, great coaching, and great luck.


thats why I scratch my heads at fans who say they want to be in a division that is stacked compared to the other division. Hopefully the divisions get a shuffling in the future to balance things out. Schools like Iowa and Minnesota show you can be successful without being a name brand.
 
13. Baylor sucked until Art Briles fourth year in 2011 and look what they did--we should use Baylor as a model for everything we do.
7e7741186661.gif





Might want to throw a qualifier or two in there.
 
That's because the institution buys into the idea of WINNING!!!! Also the donors are powerful enough to probably enforce a vote of no confidence in order to oust a President or AD. Look at what we pay for a HC and Coordinators. We here at Rutgers are always looking for winner at bargin basement prices, that very rarely ever happens, hence, a 2-10 record.

Here in NC, our flagship, UNC, is governed by a BOG/BOT that comprises the very same individuals who govern the school's Educational Foundation i.e. the Rams Club (UNC's booster club). These individuals alternate their seats, so they are not on both boards at the same time. Yet they are always "all in." Needless to say, winning is everything there, particularly in MBB, although FB funding hardly suffers.
 
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The first idea has potential but you'd probably have to apply a location factor. For example, it's been made clear that construction in NJ is far more expensive compared to some other parts of the country. Or how much more expensive it is to get kids to visit Nebraska because of location.

I don't see how you can limit a coaches ability to move to a better job though.

Just like the NFL does it.

A current coach will receive NO offers from other NFL teams while they are under contract.

Can't move to a better job if none are offered.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Just like the NFL does it.

A current coach will receive NO offers from other NFL teams while they are under contract.

Can't move to a better job if none are offered.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

I have to go to work so I don't have time for a comprehensive response but there's some obvious differences between the business models of NFL and college. Most importantly the NFL is collectively bargained while college is not and while a conference may decide not to coach poach from within you'll never see that NCAA wide.
 
the donors could have put up the money for Narduzzi or Herman in 2013 but they insisted that the hire couldnt be an assistant...so so stupid we got a lesser assistant for money two years later

We're also assuming here that a big name coach wants to coach at Rutgers. Who's the biggest name that ever coached here-ever for the men in FB or BB? Can't think of one (Pikiell, Waters, Bannon and Rice were name coaches from small schools) With the women it was Stringer-a big name but:

1) I took record money to get her here
2) Just coincidentally she was hired after President Fran Lawrence made "racist" remarks that led to big unrest on campus.
3) Arguably she was on the "downside" (of admittedly a great career in coaching). Had some great years here but I wouldn't tell anyone who says she wasn't worth it that they were crazy.

4) She WANTED to get away from Iowa State and start a new life as her husband just passed and she may not have been getting the needed resources for her developmentally disabled or austistic son.
 
I have to go to work so I don't have time for a comprehensive response but there's some obvious differences between the business models of NFL and college. Most importantly the NFL is collectively bargained while college is not and while a conference may decide not to coach poach from within you'll never see that NCAA wide.

The NCAA was able to get an agreement restricting recruiting policy and limiting the amount of scholarships that can be awarded by a given member school.

This policy most certainly would hurt the financially rich programs which could offer almost unlimited scholarships at the time.

This policy (agreed to by the majority of schools) helped smaller and less financially secure programs compete.

Presently, due to funding restrictions at state levels most College Presidents are concerned with the raising cost of funding college sports programs and salaries of head coaches and staff.
Head coaches salaries now vastly eclipse the salaries of many college presidents and are going into the stratosphere. The time has come (or will come) when most schools (even rich ones) will agree to adopt a policy limiting coaching contact (while under contract) and money devoted to college sports (similar to what the NFL had the foresight to do many years ago ). Why , for the financial stability of the programs and schools. Otherwise the money machine will start to fall apart. Paying a HC and staff maybe $100 million for a 6 year contract will become so unpalatable that they (all college presidents) will decide that something needs to be done. They will look at the NFL model.

These changes can be done, they just need collective agreement by most member schools to make the changes. Why because of money same reason the NFL reacted.

HAIL TO PITT!!!
 
Leveling the playing field is not easy. Quickest way would be to go to 40 scholie players per team, 55 players max. NFL gets by with 53. Will never happen though.
 
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We're also assuming here that a big name coach wants to coach at Rutgers. Who's the biggest name that ever coached here-ever for the men in FB or BB? Can't think of one (Pikiell, Waters, Bannon and Rice were name coaches from small schools) With the women it was Stringer-a big name but:

1) I took record money to get her here
2) Just coincidentally she was hired after President Fran Lawrence made "racist" remarks that led to big unrest on campus.
3) Arguably she was on the "downside" (of admittedly a great career in coaching). Had some great years here but I wouldn't tell anyone who says she wasn't worth it that they were crazy.

4) She WANTED to get away from Iowa State and start a new life as her husband just passed and she may not have been getting the needed resources for her developmentally disabled or austistic son.
RU had the chance to hire Narduzzi when they hired Ash. Narduzzi sent his message he wanted to interview thru his agent and two other RU 'people'.Hobbs,sent the message back that it was too late for Narduzzi because he had a 'verbal' agreement with Ash,even though a contract wasnt signed.Now we can only wonder how quickly this would have been turned around with a proven power 5 head coach in charge(Pitt currently in top 25) if Hobbs would have just listened to Jersey guy Narduzzi offer ...Time will tell.
 
Yes..this was not lost on me last night as I watch PSU rout MSU. CFB is really a rigged system. It's rigged in favor of the "rich" teams. There needs to be some way to level the playing field so teams like RU, IN and IL can get their fair share of talented recruits like the pros do it with the worst teams picking ahead of the better teams. Not sure how you would go about that but something needs to change.
Do it this way: Kids do not get to choose their P5 Program.They make application to play on that level.The schools get to choose according to their previous year's record.There will be rounds ala the NFL.The schollie limitations will still apply.The possibility of this EVER being allowed to happen ,by the "RICH" schools is O,NULLO,NONE ZILCH !! Nice for us if it could though.
 
Leveling the playing field is not easy. Quickest way would be to go to 40 scholie players per team, 55 players max. NFL gets by with 53. Will never happen though.

You'd have trouble getting by with that few players on a college team as a large number of the players in any given year will be freshmen or redshirt freshmen who probably aren't ready to contribute in a meaningful way. There are plenty of schools that lack quality depth even with an 85-scholie limit. Even in the pros, with more experienced players, a team's season often goes into the toilet if they lose 3-4 key contributors.
 
Do it this way: Kids do not get to choose their P5 Program.They make application to play on that level.The schools get to choose according to their previous year's record.There will be rounds ala the NFL.The schollie limitations will still apply.The possibility of this EVER being allowed to happen ,by the "RICH" schools is O,NULLO,NONE ZILCH !! Nice for us if it could though.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today.

Rather than compete, you want the playing artificially leveled for you.

It's like you pro market guys don't understand or appreciate the difference between the NFL and College Football.
 
you compete by paying for a qualified, successful G5 or lower head coach. Someone who knows how to run a program and win games it's no guarantee, but it sure improves your chances.
 
Narduzzi and Ash is about the same. Too early to tell who is better at this point.

So...can we expect to beat Ped next year...because Narduzzi did in his second...he also beat Clemson so I'm thinking we're due to beat tOSU next year as well?

Maybe one day Ash is that good....I sure hope so.
 
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So...can we expect to beat Ped next year...because Narduzzi did in his second...he also beat Clemson so I'm thinking we're due to beat tOSU next year as well?

Maybe one day Ash is that good....I sure hope so.

How was Pitt roster compared to ours?

How was the ACC schedule compared to ours?
 
Do it this way: Kids do not get to choose their P5 Program.They make application to play on that level.The schools get to choose according to their previous year's record.There will be rounds ala the NFL.The schollie limitations will still apply.The possibility of this EVER being allowed to happen ,by the "RICH" schools is O,NULLO,NONE ZILCH !! Nice for us if it could though.
First, this is maybe the most ridiculous NCAA proposal I've heard.

Second, why should they? Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, etc. have been investing heavily in their programs for decades. They're also the reason that Indiana and Purdue and, in a few years, Rutgers are making more TV money than Notre Dame.
 
I just noticed my paragraph counting was a bit off. Been under the weather and consuming a lot of cough syrup. I still stand by my examples and other statements minus the "Baylor model."
I wasn't worried about the paragraph counting...more the systematic rape cover ups. If you want to model your program on Baylor on the field, I think that's a great example. Invest in your facilities, hire a great innovative coach and watch what happens.

I just wouldn't use Baylor as a model for "everything".
 
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This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today.

Rather than compete, you want the playing artificially leveled for you.

It's like you pro market guys don't understand or appreciate the difference between the NFL and College Football.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today.

Rather than compete, you want the playing artificially leveled for you.

It's like you pro market guys don't understand or appreciate the difference between the NFL and College Football.
AH
This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today.

Rather than compete, you want the playing artificially leveled for you.

It's like you pro market guys don't understand or appreciate the difference between the NFL and College Football.
AHA! Words of wisdom from the country of the cultured rich and privileged.For the rest of us,ON TO THE BASTILLE!.
 
First, this is maybe the most ridiculous NCAA proposal I've heard.

Second, why should they? Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, etc. have been investing heavily in their programs for decades. They're also the reason that Indiana and Purdue and, in a few years, Rutgers are making more TV money than Notre Dame.
First.Great Victory for you guys against those other guys.Second. I said it ain't gonna happen.Third.We peasants thank you for the money. Fourth. ON TO THE BASTILLE!
 
First.Great Victory for you guys against those other guys.Second. I said it ain't gonna happen.Third.We peasants thank you for the money. Fourth. ON TO THE BASTILLE!
:joy:

Thank you for the well wishes on the game. My point was only that the big time programs are big time programs because they started investing to be big time 50, 60, 100 years ago. Why would they agree to level the playing field more than they already have? Between scholarship limits and revenue sharing, they've done a lot to help out the less successful programs. From there you need investment from the university and rich alumni to go along with the right hires (Oregon, Oklahoma State). It's hard to be elite, even when you have every advantage possible (Florida, Texas).
 
there are some bakeries that are run better and more efficiently than multi-million dollar organizations. Rutgers has to run their ship better than the schools with a ton of resources.

Two resources that makes our task far from impossible - A fertile recruiting ground and a ton of eyeballs/attention.

If you were building a program from scratch, those two resources would probably be two of your most important to have control of.
 
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Two resources that makes our task far from impossible - A fertile recruiting ground and a ton of eyeballs/attention.
....
Those two plus the BIG money coming in is definitely a place to hang your hat.
 
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