Another bullying claim within RU athletics

[Joey Bacala]

This isn’t a SL hit piece as I try to be objective. I’ve worked for three F100 companies in my career, and while he may have been cleared, his actions would have had his ass in the curb in a hot minute in corporate America of the 21st century. Listen folks where there’s smoke there’s fire. Look at the WV stuff, now similar at RU. Remember Julie Hermann anyone?

I’ve taken over departments in my career with sub par talent and done my share of house cleaning. It needs to be done with objectivity and respect and it can happen. I’ve never been sued as a result of actions I’ve taken in those scenarios because they were handled with integrity and ethical behavior. My gut tells me this guy is a scum bag and Hobbs credibility takes yet another hit every day he lets him stay on the job. Just because he was cleared doesn’t mean he should still be working at RU Athletics.

 

[Knight Shift]

Guessing @Joey Bacala did not closely read the article, namely this part:

"McDonough said both complaints filed against Szul were “investigated thoroughly” and the university found no evidence he violated any policies. And Szul, in an e-mail Monday, said that “every claim presented to the university was reviewed and found to be without merit.” "


Believe what you want to fit an agenda.

 

[koleszar]

So many of you saying he should be fired don't trust the University to conduct a proper investigation into the matter. I have to think after the Mike Rice debacle, Rutgers goes above and beyond the call of duty now.

So when they say, "we found nothing", I have to believe they found nothing and this is once again just a disgruntled employee or athlete. Who is being fed the correct catch phrases by their lawyers to get a settlement. I will side with Rutgers on this one, don't see how you can side with the scumbag looking for a quick payout.

 

[Kbee3]

when ever I see bullying and toxic used in article I know its just another disgrunted employee with an axe to grind running to the press

I think you have a misunderstanding of what the word KNOW means.

 

[HPNJRUfan]

So many of you saying he should be fired don't trust the University to conduct a proper investigation into the matter. I have to think after the Mike Rice debacle, Rutgers goes above and beyond the call of duty now.

So when they say, "we found nothing", I have to believe they found nothing and this is once again just a disgruntled employee or athlete. Who is being fed the correct catch phrases by their lawyers to get a settlement. I will side with Rutgers on this one, don't see how you can side with the scumbag looking for a quick payout.

Julie Hermann and Kyle Flood say hello.

 

[koleszar]

Julie Hermann and Kyle Flood say hello.

Herman was fired and that was a politically correct hire perpetrated by one Kate Sweeney "WE DID IT". She was fired for incompetence she didn't break any rules. If you're talking Louisville incident she was only found guilty in the court of public opinion for the wedding stuff.

Flood was suspended for asking for extra credit. O and we broke our own drug testing policy which was more stringent than the NCAA's, we self reported those infractions. The cases were handled properly, they weren't ignored or swept under the rug. So I don't see your point.

You seem to want to be believe every accuser. How'd that work out for ya in the Swimming coach incident? Or the Dave Cohen incident?

 

[HPNJRUfan]

Herman was fired and that was a politically correct hire perpetrated by one Kate Sweeney "WE DID IT". She was fired for incompetence she didn't break any rules. If you're talking Louisville incident she was only found guilty in the court of public opinion.

Flood was suspended for asking for extra credit. O and we broke our own drug testing policy which was more stringent than the NCAA's, we self reported those infractions. The cases were investigated and handled properly. They weren't ignored or swept under the rug. So I don't see your point.

I don't believe any accusers or the accused. What I do believe, is that RU admin has at times not been able to get out of it's own way (which is evidenced by these HR/PR fiascos) and therefore, no I don't completely trust their judgement or ability to "investigate" thoroughly and properly.

What I have a major problem with, is the university spending 15k to basically keep a guy in his job (who earns a huge salary already) because he couldn't cut it. In what world does this happen? Ridiculous and I don't understand why more of you don't have a problem with it.

If this was just a claim, and it was investigated and nothing was found, I'd accept it. But the university felt the need to bring in a consultant to improve his office conduct? Cut me a friggin' break.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I interpret this as some state employees dont like working hard

ding ding ding

 

[Knight Shift]

Julie Hermann and Kyle Flood say hello.

 

[RUnTeX]

The 15K paid to a consultant seems like a waste to me but if it's in the Rutgers HR SOP then maybe they were just following policy on performance improvement. Otherwise his direct supervisor should have been responsible for implementing PIP and providing the appropriate mentoring/coaching to improve his behavior.

I suppose in this day and age it doesn't fly anymore but the definition of berate provided above doesn't sound that harsh to me. I suppose there's different degrees of getting berated, but if I was the subordinate, I'd probably just take the verbal lashing and then do what I could to raise my game. If I felt the situation with that supervisor was untenable, I'd also just start getting my resume tuned up and look for another opportunity elsewhere.

 

[RU_DIO]

I don't believe any accusers or the accused. What I do believe, is that RU admin has at times not been able to get out of it's own way (which is evidenced by these HR/PR fiascos) and therefore, no I don't completely trust their judgement or ability to "investigate" thoroughly and properly.

What I have a major problem with, is the university spending 15k to basically keep a guy in his job (who earns a huge salary already) because he couldn't cut it. In what world does this happen? Ridiculous and I don't understand why more of you don't have a problem with it.

If this was just a claim, and it was investigated and nothing was found, I'd accept it. But the university felt the need to bring in a consultant to improve his office conduct? Cut me a friggin' break.

You have a major problem with paying 15k to teach the guy to be kinder and gentler. How much do you think it would have cost RU to fire him without just cause? I'm thinking a lot more than 15k.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

when ever I see bullying and toxic used in article I know its just another disgrunted employee with an axe to grind running to the press

seems like a non story, RU investigated they found nothing, looks like some of these younger peeps better growing thicker skins and stop melting

But it looks like its his whole department.

Here's my problem. Rutgers thought enough of the complaints to get the guy a consultant to fix it... but now they say there's nothing to the allegations?

Something does not add up.

It could be that he sees a lazy department where the employees support the worst work habits of eachother. Entirely possible. And maybe they all have champions elsewhere in the admin.. you never know.

Maybe it is that he thinks he is certain people's boss and they think he's not. Maybe he has responsibility, but no authority... that could lead to some difficult situations.

This all happens in just a couple of years. It really could be a quasi-conspiracy against this guy. Instead of sensitivity training for this guy, maybe they should bring in a management consulting firm to take a look at ALL the employees AND the manager.

..and do the AUDIT

Go ask the Big Ten front office if they know of a recently retired guy who had this role at Michigan or OSU etc. and hire him to come in and take a couple of weeks looking over things.

 

[NorthernKnight]

You have a major problem with paying 15k to teach the guy to be kinder and gentler. How much do you think it would have cost RU to fire him without just cause? I'm thinking a lot more than 15k.

Maybe the $15k was related to team building and trying to build a relationship with disgruntled employees, some of whom cannot be fired at Rutgers.

claims like this can be used as both a shield and a sword. Unfortunately, employees at Rutgers have become well versed in opportunistically using the Press if the complaint/appeal process doesn’t work.

This Leader may be a good leader, may have small warts in his people skills or may be a complete jerk. There’s nothing in this article that really tells us which of these.

 

[HPNJRUfan]

You have a major problem with paying 15k to teach the guy to be kinder and gentler. How much do you think it would have cost RU to fire him without just cause? I'm thinking a lot more than 15k.

Like someone else said, if it's SOP, it's still a waste but fine. No one should unjustly lose thier job, just as no one should feel any type of workplace intimidation or discrimination. We can all agree the last thing RU needs is another lawsuit, but here we are with bad publicity again. Like GOR said just before - "something just doesn't add up".

Regardless, Rutgers shouldn't be in this situation in the first place - and yes, I have a big problem with the university spending to teach a 225k/yr employee the childhood lesson of "treat others how you would like to be treated".

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Rutgers shouldn't be in this situation in the first place - and yes, I have a big problem with the university spending to teach a 225k/yr employee the childhood lesson of "treat others how you would like to be treated".

Come to think of it.. isn't this exactly what happened with Mike Rice? He was suspended, lost or fined $50K and had mandatory counseling... and after all that he got fired when the carefully cobbled together video went public. No effort was made to defend the decision process then.

oh my.. if this "abuse" was a regular practice.. there has to be video or audio.. right? Wouldn't someone find a way to record him?

 

[yesrutgers01]

I have learned that if there are bullying claims and the person against has some history, it is best to keep quiet as an outsider and just say I hope it is not the case but if it is, get rid of him and anyone else that was involved as well. Because if it is true- and any of on the outside will never know, then commenting against the victim when you were not there, is just an addon to the bullying itself.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Why even post a story like that when it was founded to be baseless?

For da clicks... that's why.

 

[bigmatt718]

Why even post a story like that when it was founded to be baseless?

For da clicks... that's why.

That's why people hate the media today. They see through the bullshit they spew and sold their souls decades ago.

 

[Loyal-Son]

That's why people hate the media today. They see through the bullshit they spew and sold their souls decades ago.

I agree 100 %. Some though are far better than others. Fox News is the worst, spewing pure propaganda. The Washington Examiner also is totally propaganda for the rich far-right. Only a "rube" would not be able to see through their "bull-crap". All you have to do is check their information through any scientific research magazine to realize how deceptive they are

Thank goodness for the Washington Post & the New York Times, who make a serious effort to confirm with several sources what they print.

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

Verbally berated in front of other individuals and having something literally thrown in your face is not S.O.F.T. There's a big difference in having difficult conversations to correct behavior with an employee and assaulting them with an object thrown.

Not to mention..terrible manager if those are his normal actions. REALLY develops employee buy-in.

Assaulting them with paper....LOL LOL

Verbally berated in front of others....Oh my!!!!!

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

I agree 100 %. Some though are far better than others. Fox News is the worst, spewing pure propaganda. The Washington Examiner also is totally propaganda for the rich far-right. Only a "rube" would not be able to see through their "bull-crap". All you have to do is check their information through any scientific research magazine to realize how deceptive they are

Thank goodness for the Washington Post & the New York Times, who make a serious effort to confirm with several sources what they print.

Delusional. Let me guess...CNN & MSDNC watcher with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!!! LOL.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Assaulting them with paper....LOL LOL

Verbally berated in front of others....Oh my!!!!!

Clearly, you have no understanding of workplace behavior or management.

 

[Fzacsattac]

Guessing @Joey Bacala did not closely read the article, namely this part:

"McDonough said both complaints filed against Szul were “investigated thoroughly” and the university found no evidence he violated any policies. And Szul, in an e-mail Monday, said that “every claim presented to the university was reviewed and found to be without merit.” "


Believe what you want to fit an agenda.

Amazing isn’t it........lol

 

[Fzacsattac]

I don't believe any accusers or the accused. What I do believe, is that RU admin has at times not been able to get out of it's own way (which is evidenced by these HR/PR fiascos) and therefore, no I don't completely trust their judgement or ability to "investigate" thoroughly and properly.

What I have a major problem with, is the university spending 15k to basically keep a guy in his job (who earns a huge salary already) because he couldn't cut it. In what world does this happen? Ridiculous and I don't understand why more of you don't have a problem with it.

If this was just a claim, and it was investigated and nothing was found, I'd accept it. But the university felt the need to bring in a consultant to improve his office conduct? Cut me a friggin' break.

 

[Fzacsattac]

were you there? nope....... I had lots of bosses "throw" papers....... SOFT......... berate? what does that even mean? tell you to do your job? SOFT.........

lol.......

 

[Fzacsattac]

But it looks like its his whole department.

Here's my problem. Rutgers thought enough of the complaints to get the guy a consultant to fix it... but now they say there's nothing to the allegations?

Something does not add up.

It could be that he sees a lazy department where the employees support the worst work habits of eachother. Entirely possible. And maybe they all have champions elsewhere in the admin.. you never know.

Maybe it is that he thinks he is certain people's boss and they think he's not. Maybe he has responsibility, but no authority... that could lead to some difficult situations.

This all happens in just a couple of years. It really could be a quasi-conspiracy against this guy. Instead of sensitivity training for this guy, maybe they should bring in a management consulting firm to take a look at ALL the employees AND the manager.

..and do the AUDIT

Go ask the Big Ten front office if they know of a recently retired guy who had this role at Michigan or OSU etc. and hire him to come in and take a couple of weeks looking over things.

lol.......this is a great thread for gifs.......lol

 

[Fzacsattac]

Why even post a story like that when it was founded to be baseless?

For da clicks... that's why.

 

[Fzacsattac]

Assaulting them with paper....LOL LOL

Verbally berated in front of others....Oh my!!!!!

lol

And.

 

[Fzacsattac]

Come to think of it.. isn't this exactly what happened with Mike Rice? He was suspended, lost or fined $50K and had mandatory counseling... and after all that he got fired when the carefully cobbled together video went public. No effort was made to defend the decision process then.

oh my.. if this "abuse" was a regular practice.. there has to be video or audio.. right? Wouldn't someone find a way to record him?

And

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Guessing @Joey Bacala did not closely read the article, namely this part:

"McDonough said both complaints filed against Szul were “investigated thoroughly” and the university found no evidence he violated any policies. And Szul, in an e-mail Monday, said that “every claim presented to the university was reviewed and found to be without merit.” "

Doesn't that bolded quote give you any pause before YOU jump to a conclusion?

"every claim".. not "the claim".. what was it.. 6 different people had claims to inappropriate behavior? Why are so many people making such claims? If the claims were without merrit.. why hire someone to consult on his behavior?

Maybe Rutgers should fire him, then move the others to other departments where different managers can gauge their work and hire a new manager and allow her or him to make their own hires, internal and external. Or, as earlier suggested, hire a management consulting firm to figure out what's wrong in that department.. perhaps this Szul character is correct on his criticisms but doesn't know how to handle it.

 

[Knight Shift]

Doesn't that bolded quote give you any pause before YOU jump to a conclusion?

Umm, no.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Thank goodness for the Washington Post & the New York Times, who make a serious effort to confirm with several sources what they print.

You are living in the past. Personal ethics and biases have replaced journalistic ethics at those papers and throughout the MSM.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Umm, no.

Just one claim from the WVU case.. which was dismissed due to statute of limitations.. this is not normal behavior..

"Szul asked Fortney about her personal romantic relationships and probed for details of her social life, took her long-distance phone bill and called several numbers on it in an attempt to find her boyfriend."​

 

[Knight Shift]

Just one claim from the WVU case.. which was dismissed due to statute of limitations.. this is not normal behavior..

"Szul asked Fortney about her personal romantic relationships and probed for details of her social life, took her long-distance phone bill and called several numbers on it in an attempt to find her boyfriend."​

Unsubstantiated claim. Claims are not evidence. People make all sorts of claims that are found to lack merit or are against the weight of evidence.

There is a thing in this country called due process. You may have heard of it. Many state employees have due process rights before being terminated. Due process protects employees against arbitrary action by their governmental employer by the exercise of its power without any reasonable justification that it is pursuing a legitimate governmental objective.

Rutgers investigated the claims and found them to be without merit. Now you want Rutgers to fire Szul because of unfounded allegations in a complaint that was dismissed in West Virginia, inviting a lawsuit for wrongful termination? I'd take that case in a heartbeat.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Unsubstantiated claim. Claims are not evidence. People make all sorts of claims that are found to lack merit or are against the weight of evidence.

There is a thing in this country called due process. You may have heard of it. Many state employees have due process rights before being terminated. Due process protects employees against arbitrary action by their governmental employer by the exercise of its power without any reasonable justification that it is pursuing a legitimate governmental objective.

Rutgers investigated the claims and found them to be without merit. Now you want Rutgers to fire Szul because of unfounded allegations in a complaint that was dismissed in West Virginia, inviting a lawsuit for wrongful termination? I'd take that case in a heartbeat.

That WVU claim was never investigated. The woman had gone to upper management and they said they could open a HR case but encouraged her to just ignore it... which she did. Perhaps complaining about him hade her labeled a "troublemaker" and eventually limited her career and that's why she eventually sued.. too late.

My take is Rutgers probably doesn't need a manager of 9 people who all have gone to HR to complain about him (according to OP linked article).

 

[Knight Shift]

That WVU claim was never investigated. The woman had gone to upper management and they said they could open a HR case but encouraged her to just ignore it... which she did. Perhaps complaining about him hade her labeled a "troublemaker" and eventually limited her career and that's why she eventually sued.. too late.

My take is Rutgers probably doesn't need a manager of 9 people who all have gone to HR to complain about him (according to OP linked article).

Your take is fine, and may ultimately be the correct take, but since Szul is a state employee, if Rutgers terminates an employee who has due process rights, it will invite a lawsuit that they will likely lose. Not 100% sure he has due process rights, but pretty sure he does. That's why they had to do the investigation.
In the private sector, most employees are at will employees and can be fired for any reason (except for discriminatory reasons). Many companies have employees sign at-will employment agreements.

 

[RU4Real]

You're not allowed to throw stuff at employees anymore, not even a stack of papers. Full stop.

 

[rubaseball78]

I don't believe any accusers or the accused. What I do believe, is that RU admin has at times not been able to get out of it's own way (which is evidenced by these HR/PR fiascos) and therefore, no I don't completely trust their judgement or ability to "investigate" thoroughly and properly.

What I have a major problem with, is the university spending 15k to basically keep a guy in his job (who earns a huge salary already) because he couldn't cut it. In what world does this happen? Ridiculous and I don't understand why more of you don't have a problem with it.

If this was just a claim, and it was investigated and nothing was found, I'd accept it. But the university felt the need to bring in a consultant to improve his office conduct? Cut me a friggin' break.

Most major companies have a training courses that it uses to provide training to its employees. Most of this are individual courses. While $15K may be on the high side I just took a training class that cost $4500 + travel/hotel costs. Many people in my company have individual training at similar costs. So no, I don’t have a problem with it.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Your take is fine, and may ultimately be the correct take, but since Szul is a state employee, if Rutgers terminates an employee who has due process rights, it will invite a lawsuit that they will likely lose. Not 100% sure he has due process rights, but pretty sure he does. That's why they had to do the investigation.
In the private sector, most employees are at will employees and can be fired for any reason (except for discriminatory reasons). Many companies have employees sign at-will employment agreements.

What if he is not a state employee? What if he is a Board of Trustees non-State employee?

 

[bac2therac]

You're not allowed to throw stuff at employees anymore, not even a stack of papers. Full stop.

You should see the tools me and my brother throw at each other