Archie Miller (Dayton) and Bob Hurley (Buffalo)
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Please point out where I questioned the Hurley's coaching ability?
All,I said is this.... Rutgers was probably the most difficult school in the entire nation to recruit players to just 2 years ago. To think that Danny or Bobby Hurley could come here 2 years ago and recruit top players to Rutgers against other schools is just silly. CALIPARI could not do ît.
Anyone who thinks a Hurley could come in 2 years ago and automatically win recruiting battles for Rutgers is living in a dream world.
Once again..... why did Danny Hurley want 7 years? There is only 1 explanation. He knew how long it would take to be competitive......PERIOOD
All,I said is this.... Rutgers was probably the most difficult school in the entire nation to recruit players to just 2 years ago. To think that Danny or Bobby Hurley could come here 2 years ago and recruit top players to Rutgers against other schools is just silly. CALIPARI could not do ît.
Anyone who thinks a Hurley could come in 2 years ago and automatically win recruiting battles for Rutgers is living in a dream world.
Once again..... why did Danny Hurley want 7 years? There is only 1 explanation. He knew how long it would take to be competitive......PERIOOD
OK thanks for letting me know.
I just think any good canidate won't take the RU MBB HCing job because of the lack of support it gets and the amount of work needed for it to start showing improvement .
Wether any Hurley will prove to be a good major conference HC or not is immaterial to me, because Rutgers won't be getting
the pick of the litter unless it commits to making the program better in all aspects.
In my opinion, Jordan is the best of the bunch that would take an RU offer and he took what they offered because of ties to school. Every other decent candidate would expect far better than what Eddie accepted and he's being nailed to the cross by the I want ( insert name) crowd , even though he took over a program many of them claimed would take 7 years to fix.
Eddie just completed his second and though it looked bad , what he had to start with most who the I want crowd's picks probably would have done the same, but be given more time to prove themselves.
The coaches before Jordan had little support , helping them fail instead of succeed.
Some posters bring up how Waters could have done well if given more time, but he had 5 years compared to Jordan's two and didn't inherite the problems Eddie did ( naked free throws wasbad, but not like the mess Rice left and an AD fired because of the MBB program).
Rice is looked on as a good coach, but he wasn't a winner and his team didn't improve every year like it should have and after first year, recruiting wasn't that good.
Also he didn't improve on Freddie's last year at RU and was given credit for RU having a better record, but Freddie's last year as RU's HC was better ( or just about the same)
Waters record of losing every other year made many RU fans want him gone, but now he is looked upon as someone who could have done it. But he didn't and was pushed out.
Eddie deserves his third year before being crucified, but some just want him gone and refuse to admit he deserves the time to fix RU that they would have given to their first choice to replace Rice and the time they thought it would take before RU started improving as a MBB program,
End of rant and it wasn't about you, but the Eddie needs to leave and I want ( insert name) crowd.
It points out that TALENT wins.
Rutgers has last place talent... they came in last.
OSU no longer had the best talent in the B1G.....result,,6th place. It's not about it being a tough league, it's about talent.
Time will tell of it's not the right fit..... certainly more than 2 or even 3 years. Maybe 7.....that's how long Danny wanted.
....
This post was edited on 3/15 6:56 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
I'm not a Buffalo fan....I have no interest in them.
I'm a Rutgers fan and the Rutgers coach deserves fans that support him.... not FANS ON THIS BOARD trying to start a campaign to push him out.
When Mike Rice was coach I supported him, same with Fred Hill.
.....
This post was edited on 3/15 7:00 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
That is questioning his Experience.... not ability. Read it again.
If Buffalo won the MAC it's because they had the best talent in the league. Saying that does not mean I am questioning the coaches' ability.
.
This post was edited on 3/15 7:04 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
actually I am pretty sure that either Hurley would have brought better players here last year or in the upcoming class...perhaps not in that very first year but the next two classes yes. That does not mean they would have turned things around already but at least we could look at recruiting as hope for the future...that's something we cannot do now...a coach when he is hired usually brings his best classes in his first two full classes...and Eddie has not done that so skeptical of when the improved recruiting comes with 10 win seasons
Buffalo was like 14-18 or so the year prior to Bobby being hired, so in two years they get their first big...not sure that just in two years he has the best talent..perhaps but it seems like he has the best coaching
as for those taking digs at Danny....they were 2-14 in league before he was hired. He has a lot of young players on his team in year 3...he has improved every year, they will be NIT bound this year, sure not the NCAA but should be a league contender again next year so his trajectory is still upward with that program.
I think the better way to word the question is what have all our non-Hurley coaches done prior to Rutgers. Outside of Fred Hill, I'd say the answer is just about the same or better as what the Hurleys are doing now. Bannon, Waters, Rice all made the NCAAs from their smaller schools too usually multiple times.
Bobby has made it once now and we'll see what kind of run he has. Danny hasn't made it yet. They've both got good trajectories with their programs no doubt but there not doing anything special that other mid major coaches who have taken the step up haven't done and they definitely haven't done it that much yet. 1 NCAA now between the 2 of them. I actually like Bobby more between the 2 of them even though he's got less experience. He was a great point guard on those championship teams and I think point guards can make good HCs. Playing under Coach K doesn't hurt either. Nonetheless though both Hurleys still need more time to show the consistency. They may be great but we don't know that yet and certainly can't say it definitively. The longer they or any other coach does it especially with changing faces of players, the higher the probability that the choice will be right.
You know when we made previous hires, there was a decent contingent here hoping for EJ. Well he's here now and the tone has certainly changed from then. Just like in football, fans have a tendency to just jump on the next hot name without taking a step back and seeing if that name is really worthy of the step up. Of course if things turn sour then everyone turns but they don't remember how they liked the name before the hire. Andy Enfield made a deep run in the tourney with FGCU but in so far he's struggled at USC, only year 2 though. He was the hot name of the moment though but certainly not the only one to get a job of a tourney run. Let these guys do it for some time and if they can then I'm all for them, whether it's the Hurleys or whoever.
This post was edited on 3/15 8:12 PM by rutgersguy1
Are you sure about that record? I see Jim Baron's last year before he went to Canisius and he was 7-24 and 4-12 in his last year, obviously not good. However, the 4 prior years to that they had anywhere from 20-26 wins and 3 NITs so it was down year but it doesn't look like the program was in some abyss where Hurley had some herculean task to lift them out from, like basically we are.
Rutgers is the easiest place to recruit against. It's not really negative recruiting if it's true. No support for the program, no practice facility and 2 years from Rice. And fans that turn on the coach and start a public message board campaign to fire the coach after 2 years.
Is there anyone here living outside New Jersey? Let me tell you what happens just about every time I go to a store with my Rutgers Gear?
Someone makes a joke about the coach throwing basketballs. Someone laughs and says what wrong with Rutgers?
On another note.... the guy I wanted for coach was Masiello because he is from the Pinto coaching tree.
Is there anyone here living outside New Jersey? Let me tell you what happens just about every time I go to a store with my Rutgers Gear?
Someone makes a joke about the coach throwing basketballs. Someone laughs and says what wrong with Rutgers?
On another note.... the guy I wanted for coach was Masiello because he is from the Pinto coaching tree.
If Einfeld bombs next year he's gone. Purnell and Gregory never turned things around. Purnell got 5 years - the last two were a waste of time for DePaul. IMO, another 10 win next year dooms Eddie. I have no interest discussing in the past two years. I'm about the future But a third bad year, and no recruiting improvement, and Eddie's not going to turn things around here - even if he is still coach into 2017.
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Clemson was a perpetual bubble team under Oliver Purnell, who left the ACC to sign a lucrative deal at DePaul.
Rhode Island hired Danny Hurley from Wagner.
Purnell had the better resume but Rhode Island was the better team and he did a better job building a program in 3 years compared to Purnell's five.
Purnell had to hire Billy Garrett to secure his son's commitment. Other than that, his recruiting was very weak.
You knew what you were getting with Purnell, but at least Danny Hurley was an "upside hire" at Rhode Island.
That's what I'm looking for in the future - because the "established coach" is a myth, and especially at Rutgers. The money isn't there and there aren't established coaches leaving a Power 5 job to take over Rutgers.
This post was edited on 3/15 6:39 PM by Aggs
Rhode Island hired Danny Hurley from Wagner.
Purnell had the better resume but Rhode Island was the better team and he did a better job building a program in 3 years compared to Purnell's five.
Purnell had to hire Billy Garrett to secure his son's commitment. Other than that, his recruiting was very weak.
You knew what you were getting with Purnell, but at least Danny Hurley was an "upside hire" at Rhode Island.
That's what I'm looking for in the future - because the "established coach" is a myth, and especially at Rutgers. The money isn't there and there aren't established coaches leaving a Power 5 job to take over Rutgers.
This post was edited on 3/15 6:39 PM by Aggs
Baron was there 11 years with no NCAA tournament appearances......5 NIT appearances, ZERO NCAAs and 3 single digit seasons including a dismal 7-24/2-14 season after which he was fired.
the Rams have not made the NCAA tourney since 1999....that's 16 years...so those saying URI is such a great job and Danny would stay there are dead wrong. They do support bball more than RU though.
the Rams have not made the NCAA tourney since 1999....that's 16 years...so those saying URI is such a great job and Danny would stay there are dead wrong. They do support bball more than RU though.
Hey...STOP IT WITH THOSE FACTS.... this is the Rutgers MBB board. Everything here is guesses, speculation and opinions that cannot be proven..... example: I'm sure Hurley would have recruited good at Rutgers....lol
If you think our next year roster would look like this with Danny as our coach, had he taken over from Mike Rice, then again it's not worth discussing.
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Yes I'd say Purnell had a better resume than Hurley and he couldn't turn DePaul around. Some places are tough and while DePaul isn't a step up from Clemson, those who do take the step up are never guranteed to succeed even if their resumes look beefier. Put it this way. Would Danny Hurley of today fared any better than Purnell if he was the one taking over DePaul 5 years ago? Maybe yes or maybe no but I'll always side with the beefier resume. Like I've said it's just logical to go in that direction in general, not even just for a coaching hire.
Let's put it this way. People with skimpier resumes can succeed and people with beefier resumes can fail but I think you're increasing your probability for success siding with the better resume and longer track record of success.
Hurley already recruited better players...included a former RU verbal in Butts than Eddie has...and he is doing it in a mid major and RU is in the Big 10. I have no doubt that Hurley would be doing better recruiting....honestly it wouldn't take much....Eddies recruiting has been underwhelming under any recruiting service you want to use
He has the advantage of recruiting at an elite basketball school - you know, UK, Duke, Indiana, UCLA, Rhode Island
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I think both Hurleys would recruit fine here but that's not a big emphasis for me. Never has been whether in football or basketball. Rice's first class was suppose to be good and we've got some good solid players here over the years that people here were excited about. I wouldn't know these high school recruits in either sport from Adam so it never excites me until I see them perform here. In the end though even with those solid players from Jones, to Douby, to FIGG, to Echinique, to Rosario, to Jack/Mack/Carter etc... it never pans out much even though people here liked them.
So while I think the Hurleys would recruit better is it going to be so so much better than some recruits we've gotten in the past and can they coach them up better than our previous coaches? I'm not sold yet. Maybe they can but I don't think that's proven yet by their track records.
So while I think the Hurleys would recruit better is it going to be so so much better than some recruits we've gotten in the past and can they coach them up better than our previous coaches? I'm not sold yet. Maybe they can but I don't think that's proven yet by their track records.
REPEAT.......
Rutgers is the easiest place to recruit against. It's not really negative recruiting if it's true. No support for the program, no practice facility and 2 years from Rice. And fans that turn on the coach and start a public message board campaign to fire the coach after 2 years.
Is there anyone here living outside New Jersey? Let me tell you what happens just about every time I go to a store with my Rutgers Gear?
Someone makes a joke about the coach throwing basketballs. Someone laughs and says what wrong with Rutgers?
Yea.....Recruits would be busting down to get here...... if we only had a coach.....
Rutgers is the easiest place to recruit against. It's not really negative recruiting if it's true. No support for the program, no practice facility and 2 years from Rice. And fans that turn on the coach and start a public message board campaign to fire the coach after 2 years.
Is there anyone here living outside New Jersey? Let me tell you what happens just about every time I go to a store with my Rutgers Gear?
Someone makes a joke about the coach throwing basketballs. Someone laughs and says what wrong with Rutgers?
Yea.....Recruits would be busting down to get here...... if we only had a coach.....
No....they always laugh about the crazy coach at Rutgers and it's been 2 years. But, that's to be expected... the story was on every major network and a parody on SNL.
Why do you people think Rutgers is the place recruits are beating at the doors to get in ????? Someone's please explain that to me.
This post was edited on 3/15 9:06 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
Why do you people think Rutgers is the place recruits are beating at the doors to get in ????? Someone's please explain that to me.
This post was edited on 3/15 9:06 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
But Danny didn't want the job, maybe one of the reasons was he knew it would be hard to get good players to go to Rutgers
with its long history of no NCAAs and the shape RU MBB was in after the Rice fiasco.
We can only guess about who he could get , but he wanted a 7 year committment from RU, so I would guess he felt it would be a few years before he could build a a decent roster so he'd have a chance to start winning.
I think Danny Hurley wouldn't done much better, considering how many players he had to replace his first season as the RU HC
and the shape the program was in and the resources Rutgers gave him to show the talent he was after why RU would be a good fit for them.
Eddie might not prove to be the right man for the job, but thinking Danny is a lock, might be wishful thinking.
Besides, DH said no, so he isn't going to bring in the talent to RU and no matter how much we speculate , we only are giving opinions, not facts.
That may be true but how often do you see basketball coaches let go before 4 years. It happens but not that often. Keno Davis at Providence is one that I remember off the top of my head and I think there might have been one a little more recently but it's not usual.
Hurley absolutely knew.... But BAC and Ruman thinks he would have gotten Briscoe, Richardson, Diana, Silva, Brunson... all the best players on the east coast. It's not good to be delusional. lol
Choppin, what's your point about recruits not wanting to play at Rutgers? That every coach is set up to fail? You're probably right - until we learn how to play with the big boys.
Schools in the Power 5 play chess; Rutgers plays checkers.
But that has nothing to do with the talent and skill of other coaches.
Glad you enjoy the misery.
This post was edited on 3/15 9:24 PM by Aggs
Schools in the Power 5 play chess; Rutgers plays checkers.
But that has nothing to do with the talent and skill of other coaches.
Glad you enjoy the misery.
This post was edited on 3/15 9:24 PM by Aggs
actually I never said that but nice tryOriginally posted by RU-Choppin-Ohio:
Hurley absolutely knew.... But BAC and Ruman thinks he would have gotten Briscoe, Richardson, Diana, Silva, Brunson... all the best players on the east coast. It's not good to be delusional. lol
Yes all coaches are all exactly the same. Not one of them would do a better job then the other. And EJ, with no connections, is a perfect fit here. Right?
I'll never argue that it's an easy job. And our support stinks, But we still pay more than $1 million year. I think a more connected coach would have put us in a much better place then we are now. And giving Jordan 5 more years won't make things work here. He needs to improve next year. Or it's not gonna happen
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I'll never argue that it's an easy job. And our support stinks, But we still pay more than $1 million year. I think a more connected coach would have put us in a much better place then we are now. And giving Jordan 5 more years won't make things work here. He needs to improve next year. Or it's not gonna happen
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No one's calling for Jordan's head, but you attack those of us who bring up other coaches. We know Jordan's under contract - is it illegal to discuss another coach? It's March Madness.
You make stuff up like 'You think the Hurley's walk on water' and "BAC and ruman think we'd get X, Y, Z recruit LOL'
this is just a troll job by you and it makes me think you have an agenda here.
This post was edited on 3/15 9:33 PM by Aggs
You make stuff up like 'You think the Hurley's walk on water' and "BAC and ruman think we'd get X, Y, Z recruit LOL'
this is just a troll job by you and it makes me think you have an agenda here.
This post was edited on 3/15 9:33 PM by Aggs
It's about as bad as it gets. Facilities are bad but the Rice scandal killed a lot. Only time heals the wounds.
The best recruiting tandem Rutgers had was Hill and Savino. They were really close until the transfers hit.
Yes and they still haven't made the tourney. My point isn't that RI is some awesome job where Hurley would stay forever. The point was it wasn't some abyss where he couldn't win 20+ games like he's done this year. It's been done before and just recently before he got there, that was the point. Baron made the NIT 3 years in a row in his last 5 and now Hurley has made his 1st NIT.
Point is that he hasn't done anything particularly special yet in his career and like I've been saying give it some time and see. I'm not against the Hurleys. I'm just not in favor of anyone, including the Hurleys, who doesn't have a beefier resume and longer track record of success.
It's called sarcasm.... ever hear about it. I tried to make it even more obvious by adding LOL.
Come on,......Why are we talking about other coaches on a Rutgers basketball board?
Yes, I do have an agenda. Support the coach, like I have supported every coach.....IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH ? Including Mike Rice until I watched the tape.
......
This post was edited on 3/15 9:40 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
I'm clearly saying that keeping Jordan past next year without improved play or a big recruiting class is something we shouldn't do. Not saying that we will pull the plug under my scenario, but that we should.
Maybe it will all happen and I will look like an ass. God do I hope so. Because Eddie Jordan putting Rutgers into the tournament would be one of the greatest sports stories ever at RU.
But I am a realist. If things don't change in 12 months we'll know. Just like Depaul new about Purnell last year or sooner.
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Maybe it will all happen and I will look like an ass. God do I hope so. Because Eddie Jordan putting Rutgers into the tournament would be one of the greatest sports stories ever at RU.
But I am a realist. If things don't change in 12 months we'll know. Just like Depaul new about Purnell last year or sooner.
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