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Ash doesn't look like the answer

and you base this on???
Because he's doing everything that can be done and, so far, doing it the right way.

The argument that people make about pro-set vs. spread is just plain stupid. We're not going to trade off experience in our future offense in order to score a few points in losing efforts this season. And we played a pro-set last season (with a healthy Grant) and when Carroo was out, we sucked. So there's no evidence that we'd do any better anyway.

The argument that coaching decisions would have materially affected the blow-out losses is wishful thinking of the hallucinogenic variety. Except for a relatively small number of instances, our players were being severely outplayed individually all over the field by the elite team's players. If you are getting knocked on your butt by opposing players, that's not scheme. That's talent and experience.

There's an incredibly obvious talent gap. But beyond that, these teams we are playing have a lot of players who've had multiple years of great position and technique coaching, and strength and conditioning training. Our players have had exactly one year of that. Not nearly enough time to make up the gap.

The problem is that some people seem unable to accept that our program was a dumpster fire before Ash got here and have ridiculously unrealistic expectations in terms of how fast this can be be turned around.
 
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Talent is not the issue here people. For anyone who thinks it's talent, I suggest you really look in the mirror and your ability to be objective.

Ash looks to be a disaster and one where he'd lose 10:10 to Shea! I never thought I'd say this but, "I'd rather have Terry Shea with this talent'
 
2001 record and final Sagarin numbers...

1 - L @ Miami (Florida) (12-0) 0-61
13 - L Syracuse (10-3) 17-24
19 - L Virginia Tech (8-4) 0-50
25 - L Boston College (8-4) 7-38
45 - L Pittsburgh (7-5) 0-42
83 - L @ West Virginia (3-8) 7-80
92 - L @ Temple (4-7) 5-30
115 - L California (1-10) 10-20
144 - W @ Buffalo (3-8) 31-15
156 - L Connecticut (2-9) 19-20
166 - W Navy (0-10) 23-17

0-1 vs. Top 10 (0-61 pts)
0-4 vs Top 25 (24-173 pts)
0-5 vs. Top 50 (24-215 pts)
0-7 vs. Top 100 (36-325 pts)
2-2 vs 100+ (83-72 pts)

Overall: 2-9 (119-397)

2016 record and current Sagarin numbers...

2 - L @ Ohio State (10-1) 0-59
3 - L Michigan (10-1) 0-78
5 - L @ Washington (10-1) 13-48
15 - L PA St (9-2) 0-39
29 - L Iowa (7-4) 7-14
44 - L @ Minnesota (8-3) 32-34
54 - L @ Michigan State (3-8) 0-49
58 - L Indiana (5-6) 27-33
77 - TBD @ Maryland (5-6) TBD
95 - L Illinois (3-8) 7-24
97 - W New Mexico (7-4) 37-28
244 - W Howard (2-9) 52-14

0-3 vs. Top 10 (13-185 pts)
0-4 vs. Top 25 (13-194 pts)
0-6 vs. Top 50 (52-242 pts)
1-9 vs. Top 100 (123-386 pts)
1-0 vs. 100+ (52-14 pts)

Overall: 2-9 (175-400)
 
The difference is when Schiano took the job there really was no talent. No running backs, no QB, no receivers, no linemen. There was one good defensive player. Schaino resurrected a dead program which I give him a lot of credit for doing. Coach Ash got a team that wasn't nearly as bad as what coach Schiano got.
 
The difference is when Schiano took the job there really was no talent. No running backs, no QB, no receivers, no linemen. There was one good defensive player. Schaino resurrected a dead program which I give him a lot of credit for doing. Coach Ash got a team that wasn't nearly as bad as what coach Schiano got.

The defensive stats during Flood's final season was the worse in school history, yes the same school that played in the 1st CFB game ever.
 
Talent is not the issue here people. For anyone who thinks it's talent, I suggest you really look in the mirror and your ability to be objective.

Ash looks to be a disaster and one where he'd lose 10:10 to Shea! I never thought I'd say this but, "I'd rather have Terry Shea with this talent'
I think it's the opposite. Anybody who doesn't recognize the talent disparity has some weird agenda and has forfeit all objectivity.

For example, we have one guy here who is so in love with Al Golden that he hasn't stopped bashing Ash since the day he was hired. That's an example of someone who has lost his objectivity.

Even trying to compare Ash to Shea reeks of an agenda-based antipathy towards Ash. Shea is a good QB coach, but was 26-50-2 as a HC. Ash has barely gotten his head-coaching career started. An objective comparison would to compare coaching records after Ash has the same 78 games of experience. And Shea wasn't coaching against OSU/Michigan/etc. year in and year out.

Pretty sure Ash will have a better record after 78 games.
 
I think it's the opposite. Anybody who doesn't recognize the talent disparity has some weird agenda and has forfeit all objectivity.

For example, we have one guy here who is so in love with Al Golden that he hasn't stopped bashing Ash since the day he was hired. That's an example of someone who has lost his objectivity.

Even trying to compare Ash to Shea reeks of an agenda-based antipathy towards Ash. Shea is a good QB coach, but was 26-50-2 as a HC. Ash has barely gotten his head-coaching career started. An objective comparison would to compare coaching records after Ash has the same 78 games of experience. And Shea wasn't coaching against OSU/Michigan/etc. year in and year out.

Pretty sure Ash will have a better record after 78 games.
Talent is not the issue here. No reason why we couldn't garner at least 6 wins, hell, even PSU was beatable.
 
The difference is when Schiano took the job there really was no talent. No running backs, no QB, no receivers, no linemen. There was one good defensive player. Schaino resurrected a dead program which I give him a lot of credit for doing. Coach Ash got a team that wasn't nearly as bad as what coach Schiano got.
Well sure. But what was the SOS for Schiano vs. Ash's first season?
 
what a bunch--by the way ,was RU in the big10 under Schiano??
 
lol...did you watch the game sport?

Yeah, I was there, "sport". Not sure at what point you thought that PA St was "beatable"... was it your expectation going into the stadium before the game? after we started deep inside their territory after the fumble and still couldn't score? after we weren't able to get any pressure on a QB protected by 3 new OLinemen? after we managed just 1 yard on offense in the second half?

And 6 wins this year? Did you watch any of the games last year or notice what personnel we were losing/keeping, "champ"?
 
- our WR's can't catch the ball
- our RB's get run down or caught behind or at the LOS
- we need better QB's for the system
- our TE's are awful
- the OL is the worst in the conference
- the LB's came into the season as the youngest, most inexperienced, group in the nation
- our punter and kicker, well, aren't very good
- our OC is, unfortunately for now but hopefully fortunately for the future, learning on the job (which isn't exactly a "rare" thing...)

...so when all this gets rectified, if we're still getting beat down 5-times/year, I'll gladly agree with the OP.
 
Comparisons are hard to do , but you can say both Schiano and Ash took over a poor hand when they first started and like Schiano had to do before RU FB improved, Ash also has to draw a few cards from the deck before he can make even a decent hand to play.
 
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The defensive stats during Flood's final season was the worse in school history, yes the same school that played in the 1st CFB game ever.

The defense isn't the issue. They kept us in enough games to make the year respectable.

If we had even an average offense Saturday would have been a close game. Nevermind we'd have won against Iowa, Indiana, and Illinois.

The defense spends too much time on the field. And I'm not worried about Ohio State- they blew out Nebraska. I'm worried about getting blanked by MSU with 2 wins.

To credit Ash, the defense looks WAY better. But the offense somehow got worse. That's not all Carroo & Grant- when you set the D1 record for punts, it's coaching.
 
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The defense isn't the issue. They kept us in enough games to make the year respectable.

If we had even an average offense Saturday would have been a close game. Nevermind we'd have won against Iowa, Indiana, and Illinois.

The defense spends too much time on the field. And I'm not worried about Ohio State- they blew out Nebraska. I'm worried about getting blanked by MSU with 2 wins.

To credit Ash, the defense looks WAY better. But the offense somehow got worse. That's not all Carroo & Grant- when you set the D1 record for punts, it's coaching.
agree with everything but the last part as I don't think the D looks great. The secondary, most notibly the safeties, appear to be lost
 
You might want to look at the preseason prediction thread where many, many poster predicted 5,6 even 7 wins. No talk about lack of talent in August. It was only after Ash's sh!t show was revealed that fanboys started this lack of talent narrative.
spot on again
 
agree with everything but the last part as I don't think the D looks great. The secondary, most notibly the safeties, appear to be lost

Not great, but better than where we were...tackling is better for example. Still needs work but was good enough to have more than 2 wins for sure.
 
Not great, but better than where we were...tackling is better for example. Still needs work but was good enough to have more than 2 wins for sure.
I don't think tackling has been improved at all, maybe for the first 2 games but after that, it's been pretty bad. I still want to know who is coaching the safeties???
 
defense is somewhat better but that's because they couldn't get any worse. They still look lost on most plays, especially any pass over 10 yards. Offense there is no explanation. Purdue SUCKS, they are awful, and they still scored 20 on Wisconsin this past weekend, we punt from the 30 yard line.
 
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We are 128 out of 128 in total offense of D1 football....that's hard to do folks....

With that ranking, we lost 14-7 to Iowa, had 5 turnovers to a bad Illinois team and played our best game at 8-3 Minnesota (Minnesota is a mid level B1G program now, behind Nebraska, etc.) In 6 conference games not vs PSU, MSU, OSU and Michigan) we have 14 points....

If we had reasonable offense, I'd accept the 4 shutouts because despite Michigan State's record this year, they are better than Maryland and Illinois, two teams they lost to head to head (albeit on the road).

On the other hand, even if the freshman and new JUCO QB (TBD) come in AND we decide to play Martin, Hicks and Sneed, how high on the offensive rankings will RU go from 128 next year....??? Is it 80's, or better in the 60 range (Average)

I think (I probably should say we) that if we are not going to "outrecruit" Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State and Ohio State in the Eastern Division of the B1G, that RU needs a coach that can exceed recruiting battles being won against these four schools.....but if that is not going to happen, then what is the path towards closing the gap??....Then on the Western Division side, we have Nebraska as a bowl team every season and schools like Iowa and Minnesota now bowling, where does RU's staff measure up overall??.....This is not just Chris Ash, this is a total staff overview??

We can discuss recruiting all day long, but to win games, you have to be better coached and have more talent that the bottom of the conference (Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Purdue) and the mid level teams (Northwestern, Minnesota, Iowa).....Can't have punters netting 20-25 yards of field position, the same penalties on special teams, getting punts blocked etc....these are things that signal a staff isn't performing, not talent.

RU has to make significant improvements at QB, WR, play Martin/Hicks/Sneed, have better play out of the OLine, linebackers AND actually recruit a legitimate punter, just to have a chance to be better than 4-8 next year......the likelihood of ALL of those things getting fixed in one off season is hard to imagine..... (4-8 is the floor record next year with hosting Maryland, playing Purdue, Eastern Michigan and 1AA).....Anything less than 4-8 next year is a huge red flag.....

If we are running the same offense next year, it is hard to see that big a jump towards 4-8, unless there is an overhaul of scheme and better assistants in place.....just can't see how you can go from 128 to average in one off season, with the exact same scheme and coaching/coordinators in place, just based on talent alone.
 
You might want to look at the preseason prediction thread where many, many poster predicted 5,6 even 7 wins. No talk about lack of talent in August. It was only after Ash's sh!t show was revealed that fanboys started this lack of talent narrative.

So because fans made uninformed, overly optimistic predictions, which they do every year, it means what now? Some also predicted a bad season, so I guess that means I'm right.

Al Golden still licks balls.
 
So because fans made uninformed, overly optimistic predictions, which they do every year, it means what now? Some also predicted a bad season, so I guess that means I'm right.

Al Golden still licks balls.
hahaha, he probably does but the fact remains, we have the horses to win 5ish games and didn't. Our coaches flat out blow and our OC may be the worst I've ever seen

that said, lets' get back to cars and music:)
 
Yes, let's bring back Schiano because no first year head coaches with results like this could possibly be any good.
2001 2-9. Some representative scores.
Miami 61-0
VA Tech 50-0
WVU 8O -7
PITT 42-0.
.

ouch...Thanks for the Acid reflux....[sick]
 
2001 record and final Sagarin numbers...

1 - L @ Miami (Florida) (12-0) 0-61
13 - L Syracuse (10-3) 17-24
19 - L Virginia Tech (8-4) 0-50
25 - L Boston College (8-4) 7-38
45 - L Pittsburgh (7-5) 0-42
83 - L @ West Virginia (3-8) 7-80
92 - L @ Temple (4-7) 5-30
115 - L California (1-10) 10-20
144 - W @ Buffalo (3-8) 31-15
156 - L Connecticut (2-9) 19-20
166 - W Navy (0-10) 23-17

0-1 vs. Top 10 (0-61 pts)
0-4 vs Top 25 (24-173 pts)
0-5 vs. Top 50 (24-215 pts)
0-7 vs. Top 100 (36-325 pts)
2-2 vs 100+ (83-72 pts)

Overall: 2-9 (119-397)

2016 record and current Sagarin numbers...

2 - L @ Ohio State (10-1) 0-59
3 - L Michigan (10-1) 0-78
5 - L @ Washington (10-1) 13-48
15 - L PA St (9-2) 0-39
29 - L Iowa (7-4) 7-14
44 - L @ Minnesota (8-3) 32-34
54 - L @ Michigan State (3-8) 0-49
58 - L Indiana (5-6) 27-33
77 - TBD @ Maryland (5-6) TBD
95 - L Illinois (3-8) 7-24
97 - W New Mexico (7-4) 37-28
244 - W Howard (2-9) 52-14

0-3 vs. Top 10 (13-185 pts)
0-4 vs. Top 25 (13-194 pts)
0-6 vs. Top 50 (52-242 pts)
1-9 vs. Top 100 (123-386 pts)
1-0 vs. 100+ (52-14 pts)

Overall: 2-9 (175-400)

so you mean he is going to become a 500 coach and unltimately become a DC again down the road? (LOL..just trying to have some fun with this mess of a season)
 
I'm in near disbelief at how many of you allowed yourselves to be trolled so easily and successfully by the OP. It wasn't even a noteworthy troll and you guys bought it like you'd never used the internet before.

Christopher Christie w/4 posts? Seriously? And you guys bought it hook, line and sinker.

The guy's almost certainly a PSU fan sitting in his mom's basement rolling on the floor laughing his trolling ass off at how gullible you are. And he should.

Had a ready made audience all too wiling be sucked in. Win win for him.
 
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For those so think our defense is the problem....
The PSU game was a great example of how the season has gone so far.
1st half - Offense get 4 first downs. Drives, 4, 3, 4, 5, 3, 7, 2 plays. Defense holds PSU to 3 FGs.
2nd half - Offense get 1 first down! 7 three and outs! Defense can't hold many longer, lets up 4 TDs.
Total offense 87 yards.
No defense can survive being on the field all game every game.
 
For those so think our defense is the problem....
The PSU game was a great example of how the season has gone so far.
1st half - Offense get 4 first downs. Drives, 4, 3, 4, 5, 3, 7, 2 plays. Defense holds PSU to 3 FGs.
2nd half - Offense get 1 first down! 7 three and outs! Defense can't hold many longer, lets up 4 TDs.
Total offense 87 yards.
No defense can survive being on the field all game every game.
do not disagree at all and definitely think this is part of the problem. The tackling and secondary however are issues we've had all year though
 
For those so think our defense is the problem....
The PSU game was a great example of how the season has gone so far.
1st half - Offense get 4 first downs. Drives, 4, 3, 4, 5, 3, 7, 2 plays. Defense holds PSU to 3 FGs.
2nd half - Offense get 1 first down! 7 three and outs! Defense can't hold many longer, lets up 4 TDs.
Total offense 87 yards.
No defense can survive being on the field all game every game.

People forget Michigan started with I believe 3 - 3 and outs. Field position and no offense started and continued the rout.
 
hahaha, he probably does but the fact remains, we have the horses to win 5ish games and didn't. Our coaches flat out blow and our OC may be the worst I've ever seen

that said, lets' get back to cars and music:)

Based on what evidence do we have the horses to win 5 games? Please list the horses and the 3 teams we lost to but had the talent advantage over.
 
Less sloppy play we could have and should have beaten Illinios. If we don't fall behind early and far against Minnesota ? The horrible 1st and goal play calling against Iowa?

Illinois and Maryland beat MSU!
 
hahaha, he probably does but the fact remains, we have the horses to win 5ish games and didn't. Our coaches flat out blow and our OC may be the worst I've ever seen

that said, lets' get back to cars and music:)

You know, I was trying not to engage you in this argument because I've been enjoying the newfound civility and agreement we've had. Who'd have thought? :sunglasses:

In complete honesty, I expected to be better and see more improvement. But 5 games still seems way too optimistic. I mean, we won 4 last year with Carroo and a coach who, while terrible, was playing with an established offense and his own guys. Why would we expect Ash to come in, play with a less talented team that lost its most potent weapon, a team still learning a completely different system and playing a dirty-difficult schedule, and win five? Doesn't add up. I'll grant you that we should have won 3 or 4, not 2, but 5 seems like a high expectation where everything would have had to fall our way. We're Rutgers - everything never falls our way, even in our best season of all time. So while we've definitely underperformed, I don't think it's nearly as much as you and others believe.

I don't know whether Ash will be good, great or terrible by the time he's done here, but I think it's useless to declare "terrible" at this stage. Let him recruit, get his guys in here and coach his system. Why? Because we don't have a choice anyway. He's not going anywhere for another 2 years, at least, and it wouldn't help the program in the least if they decided to do an emergency firing. So might as well root for the best.
 
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You know, I was trying not to engage you in this argument because I've been enjoying the newfound civility and agreement we've had. Who'd have thought? :sunglasses:

In complete honesty, I expected to be better and see more improvement. But 5 games still seems way too optimistic. I mean, we won 4 last year with Carroo and a coach who, while terrible, was playing with an established offense and his own guys. Why would we expect Ash to come in, play with a less talented team that lost its most potent weapon, a team still learning a completely different system and playing a dirty-difficult schedule, and win five? Doesn't add up. I'll grant you that we should have won 3 or 4, not 2, but 5 seems like a high expectation where everything would have had to fall our way. We're Rutgers - everything never falls our way, even in our best season of all time. So while we've definitely underperformed, I don't think it's nearly as much as you and others believe.

I don't know whether Ash will be good, great or terrible by the time he's done here, but I think it's useless to declare "terrible" at this stage. Let him recruit, get his guys in here and coach his system. Why? Because we don't have a choice anyway. He's not going anywhere for another 2 years, at least, and it wouldn't help the program in the least if they decided to do an emergency firing. So might as well root for the best.


fair enough, I can agree with much of this and you made some good points...for a dik..lol..just kidding, just kidding!!!!!! :):)
 
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I don't think tackling has been improved at all, maybe for the first 2 games but after that, it's been pretty bad. I still want to know who is coaching the safeties???

I expect any changes to come on the offensive side of the ball at this point. Ash definitely knows defense, but he needs the Fridge of the spread offense on the other side.
 
I expect any changes to come on the offensive side of the ball at this point. Ash definitely knows defense, but he needs the Fridge of the spread offense on the other side.
how can you say that after watching this team look so unprepared against foes he's been coaching against for how long? c'mon
 
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