AthlonSports.com article: 5 possible landing spots for Greg Schiano

[RUMBA-JK]

For people who hate or dislike Schiano and think he will come back and make the same mistakes you really need to read the article Choppin posted.

It is an unknown - and it may be a bit more of a puzzle if you add in "environment " -

Would he go some where new and make the same mistakes? - don't know - but I be willing to say he might make some mistakes - but probably not repeats ... and the world around him would not be as inclined to reflexively connect the dots to the past.

Would he come back and make the same mistakes? again none of us know - but it might have a greater potential - and even if they were not the same - the critics in the environment around him would hearken back to the past and draw similarities - even if they were weak. Plus it would be a bit of human nature if familiar surroundings & functions triggered old patterns of response.

Is Schanio is working things through analytically - he has to be thinking:

It is going to be a whole lot easier for me to be (& continue to be) the "New Greg" in a new environment - a whole lot easier than if I go back to an old place that is filled with a lot of people who will tenaciously cling to their vision of "Old Greg" and a place were the environment will transmit lots of messages to the residual parts of "Old Greg" inside of me.

 

[RUskoolie]

Personally I don't think Schiano deserves "trashing" - Schiano made a huge contribution to the growth of RU & RU football - but, like just about every coach, he has a style, he has an ego and he has certain limitations - and no matter how great his contributions, it does not grant him immunity from reasonable assessment.

Looking realistically (& favorably) at Schiano - it would be fair to say that he has a very strong 'inspirational entrepreneurial" streak - at RU he showed the ability to take a program that seriously "needed work" - that was pretty much 'stuck in the mud' ... in so many ways (on the field, the facilities, the staff, general visibility) and he threw himself into it - and he did a good job- he got it out of the muck! and got it to run! His tendency to micro-manage everything - - in the beginning, helped him to keep his finger on the pulse & to elevate the program ... but - and some might debate this - toward the end of his time at RU, it looked like his style had "max'ed out " - a bit like when a business grows to needing a different style leader - one who does not need to touch every single element - & make every single decision.

Agreed. I think that was his downfall and I will be very interested to see if his humbling in the NFL changed that.

I would argue though, that is the type of coach we need right now Someone to clean up the discipline, the lack of overall talent on the roster, the lack of depth on the roster, the lack of scheme on defense, the lack of toughness on the football team, the lack of pizzaz on the recruiting trail, the lack of respect in NJ HSs, etc, etc, etc. I am fine with hiring him, cleaning up the program, giving us an identity again (albeit, a painful one at times) and coasting for the next 5 years until we get B1G money and/or our pea-brain, short sighted University President steps down.

 

[MoobyCow]

Yea. WVU ran a spread and exposed the Schiano defense every year.

Schiano did mostly fine against the WVU offense, (Cincy spread was another story). We lost to WVU most years because we couldn't score.

I'm only going back to 2008, because that's what CFBstats has easily available:

2008: Only 2 teams held them to less yards/play than RU
2009: RU held them to the lowest YPP of the year
2010: Just an abomination all around
2011: OK, pretty poor this year, but still held them below their season avg in YPP.

 

[MoobyCow]

Yes but did you see his OFFENSES at Tampa Bay? The problem is always the same with schiano. Great defense and sh*tty crippled offenses.

You kind of have to give him a pass for the Tampa offense considering they had no QB.

 

[ruready07]

Schiano was a terrible in game head coach. He always talked about how halftime adjusts were over rated. His game management and use of timeouts was terrible. No one is questioning his defensive play calling. But let's not forget his inability to adjust to the spread. Or to beat West Virginia ever.

there isn't a program in america that doesn't make some minor tweaks at halftime (especially if losing). Greg did and it was evidenced by him outscoring opponents in the second half in many games - some that come to mind are UofL2006, USF2007, Cuse2007,NCstate2008, UNC2011.
Schiano has beaten Brian Kelley, Freidgen and D'Antonio.
Schiano has also stopped the spread - we have held cincy to 13 points (when they were #17 in the country) and one year we absolutely dominated them allowing only 3 points (their lowest total of the whole year).

We went from losing to WVU every year by 60 to losing by 2,3,7 and 10 in his last years. Talk about closing the gap on someone. Dropped pass away from that whole west virginia comment being worthless. Why hang on to that? You're mad that a coach who took a program from nowhere couldn't beat one of the consistently best programs in the country? Ok.. I like your expectations, but lets be real.

Schiano had us ranked at different points in 3 years.

In 2005: 7-5
beat d'antonio 44-9
beat #33 ranked Navy
we played in our first bowl in an awesome game. We finally turned the corner.

2006: 11-2 #12 final poll
we crushed teams this year
could have had a shot at the national title game
shutout two 1A teams in the same year - thats unheard of
People talk about Greg reaching his ceiling... well, isn't 2006 his ceiling so far? He wasn't even 40 yrs old at the time. You can't judge a coach's ceiling at that age. Its crazy to do so.

2007: 8-5 #39 final poll
sent a bunch of players to the NFL from previous year
still, we spent half the year ranked in the top 25
We had 3 losses to top 25 teams
Beat #2 USF
We outscored teams in the second half in multiple games - for those who say Greg didnt make halftime adjustments

2008: 8-5 #35 final poll
ray rice leaves early
lost to #25 fresno early in the year
lost to UNC who spent most of the year in the top 25
lost at #23 WVU by 7... again, we were going in to morgantown and banging heads with one of the best teams of the 2000's.
lost at #17 cincy 13-10. A spread team putting up only 13 points on us..?

2009: 9-4 #31 final poll
lost to #8 cincy
lost by 7 to #15 pitt
lost by 3 to #23 wvu
Another shutout vs a 1a team - over #24 USF

we were ranked at one point in the season and ended the year with our 4th straight bowl win.

2010:
Our worst record and first losing season in a while
We lost a lot of guys, Dodd was playing QB behind a weak oline and the Legrand injury took the air out the season. Rough year.

2011: 9-4 #31 final poll
lost at UNC by 2, but outscored them in the second half (again, adjustments)
lost by 2 to good UofL team on the road
lost by 10 to #24 wvu
held cincy to 3 points, their lowest total of the year
won another bowl game, dominating Iowa St.

 

[StyleKnight]

there isn't a program in america that doesn't make some minor tweaks at halftime (especially if losing). Greg did and it was evidenced by him outscoring opponents in the second half in many games - some that come to mind are UofL2006, USF2007, Cuse2007,NCstate2008, UNC2011.
Schiano has beaten Brian Kelley, Freidgen and D'Antonio.
Schiano has also stopped the spread - we have held cincy to 13 points (when they were #17 in the country) and one year we absolutely dominated them allowing only 3 points (their lowest total of the whole year).

We went from losing to WVU every year by 60 to losing by 2,3,7 and 10 in his last years. Talk about closing the gap on someone. Dropped pass away from that whole west virginia comment being worthless. Why hang on to that? You're mad that a coach who took a program from nowhere couldn't beat one of the consistently best programs in the country? Ok.. I like your expectations, but lets be real.

Schiano had us ranked at different points in 3 years.

In 2005: 7-5
beat d'antonio 44-9
beat #33 ranked Navy
we played in our first bowl in an awesome game. We finally turned the corner.

2006: 11-2 #12 final poll
we crushed teams this year
could have had a shot at the national title game
shutout two 1A teams in the same year - thats unheard of
People talk about Greg reaching his ceiling... well, isn't 2006 his ceiling so far? He wasn't even 40 yrs old at the time. You can't judge a coach's ceiling at that age. Its crazy to do so.

2007: 8-5 #39 final poll
sent a bunch of players to the NFL from previous year
still, we spent half the year ranked in the top 25
We had 3 losses to top 25 teams
Beat #2 USF
We outscored teams in the second half in multiple games - for those who say Greg didnt make halftime adjustments

2008: 8-5 #35 final poll
ray rice leaves early
lost to #25 fresno early in the year
lost to UNC who spent most of the year in the top 25
lost at #23 WVU by 7... again, we were going in to morgantown and banging heads with one of the best teams of the 2000's.
lost at #17 cincy 13-10. A spread team putting up only 13 points on us..?

2009: 9-4 #31 final poll
lost to #8 cincy
lost by 7 to #15 pitt
lost by 3 to #23 wvu
Another shutout vs a 1a team - over #24 USF

we were ranked at one point in the season and ended the year with our 4th straight bowl win.

2010:
Our worst record and first losing season in a while
We lost a lot of guys, Dodd was playing QB behind a weak oline and the Legrand injury took the air out the season. Rough year.

2011: 9-4 #31 final poll
lost at UNC by 2, but outscored them in the second half (again, adjustments)
lost by 2 to good UofL team on the road
lost by 10 to #24 wvu
held cincy to 3 points, their lowest total of the year
won another bowl game, dominating Iowa St.

You can spew all the facts you want at me. At the beginning of Schiano's tenure he was a terrible game manager. By 2006 he had learned trial by fire to be an average game manager. I don't need to waste my time looking up anything. I've watched all the games and I know football.

 

[ruready07]

in summary:
Greg was really young. It was his first head coaching gig and he was in his 30/s and early 40's, He rose very quickly through the coaching ranks - the sign of a star in this profession and exactly the type of coach who we today would be screaming to get.
The guy had us ranked in multiple seasons, playing good football, academics were tops in the country, the kids were staying out of trouble and his recruiting presence was getting better and better.
Oh, and he's a jersey guy who understands everything about how this monster called Rutgers works.
Get an older, wiser Schiano in here and allow him to focus more on the football side of things now that the infrastructure is in place. He would be even better this time with so much of the non-football stuff off his plate.

Give the guy 2-2.5 mil and allow us to build some tradition around here.

If we turn away our own program legends.. how the hell are we ever going to create tradition and a place where success should happen?

 

[ruready07]

You can spew all the facts you want at me. At the beginning of Schiano's tenure he was a terrible game manager. By 2006 he had learned trial by fire to be an average game manager. I don't need to waste my time looking up anything. I've watched all the games and I know football.

I wrote some factual stuff.. isn't that what you want to see on these message boards??
And you're now admitting that he became an average game manager.. no longer the terrible one you originally claimed he was. Got it. Just acknowledge people and their qualities man, it makes life a little better.

 

[NickKnight 1]

SO TRUE!!! AND ..... without Schiano, Flood would probably be teaching math


On the first game of the year, Greg pulled his fifth year senior starter Natale when he was ineffective against Cincy and put his true freshman QB Savage.

What the heck are you talking about? If you're going to argue for Flood, at least be intelligent about it.

Boy, did you misread my post. I wasn't arguing for Flood, I'm saying Flood
is wrong about the Laviano over Retigg thing, but people want Schiano
back who did the same thing to Savage.

 

[WhiteBus]

Boy, did you misread my post. I wasn't arguing for Flood, I'm saying Flood is wrong about the Laviano over Retigg thing, but people want Schiano
back who did the same thing to Savage.

Huh? Flood and Schiano couldn't be more different on how they handle QBs. Schiano had no problem pulling a guy in game anytime. Flood refuses to pull a guy with 5 or 6 ints.

 

[Blitz8RUCrazy]

Boy, did you misread my post. I wasn't arguing for Flood, I'm saying Flood
is wrong about the Laviano over Retigg thing, but people want Schiano
back who did the same thing to Savage.

Schiano pulled Savage because he became a basket case behind that porous OL. Plus he stopped going through his progressions and kept locking in on Sanu. He played scared. Pretty much the same stuff Laviano is doing now.

 

[MoobyCow]

Schiano pulled Savage because he became a basket case behind that porous OL. Plus he stopped going through his progressions and kept locking in on Sanu. He played scared. Pretty much the same stuff Laviano is doing now.

Didn't he also get hurt? I also think it's unfair to say Laviano is locking on to anyone, he seems to spread the ball around fairly well.

I mean before he was yanked he was:
10-19 for 148
7-15 for 72
16-29 for 150
2-5 for 40

Say what you want about Laviano, but his numbers crush those. I mean they are not in the same universe.

 

[derleider]

Schiano to RU would make a great story...back to re-resurrect the program! We could do a lot worse! (and have!)

I also have nothing but gratitude and fondness for Schiano...but I guess I'm old enough to remember what a complete and utter cluster **** RU football was for so very long! I would welcome him back with great expectations...

Make it happen Julie!!!

Doing something for the story is a bad reason to do it. What about his ability to actually resurrect the program given that he can't schedule 5 bad OOC games (limited to 3 including one against a P5 team) and will have to play somewhere between 2 and 4 top 25 teams just in division every year in all likelihood.

 

[ruready07]

Doing something for the story is a bad reason to do it. What about his ability to actually resurrect the program given that he can't schedule 5 bad OOC games (limited to 3 including one against a P5 team) and will have to play somewhere between 2 and 4 top 25 teams just in division every year in all likelihood.

derleider,
I know you aren't 100% on schiano returning, but Im sure you'd admit that he is one of the most important figures in RU athletics history.. He's up there, right?
Well if so, how on earth does a university, a fan base, a state turn around and tell this guy they don't want him back? If we treat our own legendary figures that way, what does it really say about us?

We had a young guy from NJ take on the impossible task of straightening out Rutgers football.. And he did it! Through sheer will and focus the guy improved every aspect of our program. There was no such thing as a Rutgers Man before Greg. We were terrible academically and terrible on the field. There was never a better time for Rutgers football fans than during Schiano's tenure - the pride was high and it was felt throughout the state. So as much as I don't care for the hollywood drama, what schiano did here is indeed an amazing story.

Thats the guy you want to turn your back on?

Give him the keys and lets get behind our guy. He has most definitely earned it.

 

[MoobyCow]

derleider,
I know you aren't 100% on schiano returning, but Im sure you'd admit that he is one of the most important figures in RU athletics history.. He's up there, right?
Well if so, how on earth does a university, a fan base, a state turn around and tell this guy they don't want him back? If we treat our own legendary figures that way, what does it really say about us?

We had a young guy from NJ take on the impossible task of straightening out Rutgers football.. And he did it! Through sheer will and focus the guy improved every aspect of our program. There was no such thing as a Rutgers Man before Greg. We were terrible academically and terrible on the field. There was never a better time for Rutgers football fans than during Schiano's tenure - the pride was high and it was felt throughout the state. So as much as I don't care for the hollywood drama, what schiano did here is indeed an amazing story.

Thats the guy you want to turn your back on?

Give him the keys and lets get behind our guy. He has most definitely earned it.

I am mixed on Schiano. On the one hand I think he topped out when he was here. On the other, I think a lot of coaches need to fail in order to grow and Schiano seems the type of guy who probably will grow from having failed.

Having said all of that, we don't owe Schiano anything and he hasn't earned the right to just come in and take the job if he wants it. What Schiano earned was our thanks, and a paycheck that far outstripped his win loss record at RU. He also earned the right a long leash when he was here, he gave that up for a shot at the NFL. Now, if Schiano is interviewed in the open market and it is thought he is the best choice, I'm OK with that, but there should be other candidates. Given the state of the school and reputation of our AD, I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if Schiano was the best fit, but it is not a given.

 

[ruready07]

I am mixed on Schiano. On the one hand I think he topped out when he was here. On the other, I think a lot of coaches need to fail in order to grow and Schiano seems the type of guy who probably will grow from having failed.

Having said all of that, we don't owe Schiano anything and he hasn't earned the right to just come in and take the job if he wants it. What Schiano earned was our thanks, and a paycheck that far outstripped his win loss record at RU. He also earned the right a long leash when he was here, he gave that up for a shot at the NFL. Now, if Schiano is interviewed in the open market and it is thought he is the best choice, I'm OK with that, but there should be other candidates. Given the state of the school and reputation of our AD, I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if Schiano was the best fit, but it is not a given.

weird question, but what if the two candidates for the job were the schiano that we have now, after his building of the program and nfl experience or the hotshot DC schiano coming out of Miami... who would you go with?

 

[ruready07]

the issue with our fans, and the reason why we lack some tradition is because we constantly sell out "Good" for the sake of "Better". Schiano was good, but we want better.. thats the sense Im getting from some of the fans on here. The uniforms were good, but we want better.
Well if we'd just show some patience, maybe when you are "Good" for long enough it becomes Better. Thats tradition. Its building something over an extended period of time, not just trying to make the right hire or the right uniform combo to take a short cut to Better.

There is a reason certain athletic programs are successful no matter who the coach is.. and its because the machine has been churning before and will churn after whoever that coach is. Let us be good for a while.

Schiano's success here was actually a curse. He put the taste of victory in your mouths and many overdosed. He had people believing we should actually be competing for national titles when before him guys were happy to keep the score respectable. Those same guys now don't think Greg is good enough, lol

 

[PaKnight]

there isn't a program in america that doesn't make some minor tweaks at halftime (especially if losing). Greg did and it was evidenced by him outscoring opponents in the second half in many games - some that come to mind are UofL2006, USF2007, Cuse2007,NCstate2008, UNC2011.
Schiano has beaten Brian Kelley, Freidgen and D'Antonio.
Schiano has also stopped the spread - we have held cincy to 13 points (when they were #17 in the country) and one year we absolutely dominated them allowing only 3 points (their lowest total of the whole year).

We went from losing to WVU every year by 60 to losing by 2,3,7 and 10 in his last years. Talk about closing the gap on someone. Dropped pass away from that whole west virginia comment being worthless. Why hang on to that? You're mad that a coach who took a program from nowhere couldn't beat one of the consistently best programs in the country? Ok.. I like your expectations, but lets be real.

Schiano had us ranked at different points in 3 years.

In 2005: 7-5
beat d'antonio 44-9
beat #33 ranked Navy
we played in our first bowl in an awesome game. We finally turned the corner.

2006: 11-2 #12 final poll
we crushed teams this year
could have had a shot at the national title game
shutout two 1A teams in the same year - thats unheard of
People talk about Greg reaching his ceiling... well, isn't 2006 his ceiling so far? He wasn't even 40 yrs old at the time. You can't judge a coach's ceiling at that age. Its crazy to do so.

2007: 8-5 #39 final poll
sent a bunch of players to the NFL from previous year
still, we spent half the year ranked in the top 25
We had 3 losses to top 25 teams
Beat #2 USF
We outscored teams in the second half in multiple games - for those who say Greg didnt make halftime adjustments

2008: 8-5 #35 final poll
ray rice leaves early
lost to #25 fresno early in the year
lost to UNC who spent most of the year in the top 25
lost at #23 WVU by 7... again, we were going in to morgantown and banging heads with one of the best teams of the 2000's.
lost at #17 cincy 13-10. A spread team putting up only 13 points on us..?

2009: 9-4 #31 final poll
lost to #8 cincy
lost by 7 to #15 pitt
lost by 3 to #23 wvu
Another shutout vs a 1a team - over #24 USF

we were ranked at one point in the season and ended the year with our 4th straight bowl win.

2010:
Our worst record and first losing season in a while
We lost a lot of guys, Dodd was playing QB behind a weak oline and the Legrand injury took the air out the season. Rough year.

2011: 9-4 #31 final poll
lost at UNC by 2, but outscored them in the second half (again, adjustments)
lost by 2 to good UofL team on the road
lost by 10 to #24 wvu
held cincy to 3 points, their lowest total of the year
won another bowl game, dominating Iowa St.

Finished ranked once, 2006.

2006 Lost to D'antonio, lost to WVU to a backup QB with the conference on the line

2007 Had to play Teel with a bad thumb because there was no other QB on the roster other than Jabu

2008 Started 1-5

2009 Beat two FCS teams, lost 31-13 to a bad Syracuse team

2010 Even before the Legrand injury, it was not a good team. Lost to Tulane at home, struggled against FIU despite a huge TO margin, needed OT to beat Army.

2011 With a conference championship again on the line, at least a tie, got hammered by a bad Uconn team 40-22

 

[MoobyCow]

weird question, but what if the two candidates for the job were the schiano that we have now, after his building of the program and nfl experience or the hotshot DC schiano coming out of Miami... who would you go with?

I'd go with the Schiano now, but that's just me. I'm generally a bit skeptical of coordinator hires (I know they work out a lot of times), just because the jump from running and offense/defense to running a whole program is so large. Generally though, when in doubt I go with the guy who is proven to have a maniacal work ethic and will to succeed, so either would be OK with me.

 

[ruready07]

Finished ranked once, 2006.

2006 Lost to D'antonio, lost to WVU to a backup QB with the conference on the line

2007 Had to play Teel with a bad thumb because there was no other QB on the roster other than Jabu

2008 Started 1-5

2009 Beat two FCS teams, lost 31-13 to a bad Syracuse team

2010 Even before the Legrand injury, it was not a good team. Lost to Tulane at home, struggled against FIU despite a huge TO margin, needed OT to beat Army.

2011 With a conference championship again on the line, at least a tie, got hammered by a bad Uconn team 40-22

I hear you. We lost to a well coached cincy team the week after the most emotional game in program history, it happens.. at all levels, every week.
We finished most years ranked around 35, exceeding expectations both from the media and recruiting rankings.
We were definitely thin at QB for a while - not as much the case now, schiano would be able to do much better recruiting QBs to the B1G.
Started 1-5 in 2008, yes. But its much harder to win than it is to lose, and we won every game after that, which is very impressive. How could you not think so?
Yes, in 2010, we werent very good and the legrand injury was just the final nail in the coffin.
The loss to Uconn in 2011 is the main reason people have any problem with schiano. Everyone already punched their ticket to the orange bowl... and were let down. Why the surprise that the team also did the same?

We have had some WTF games for sure. But thats sports, there are players and coaches on the other side working their ass off too.

 

[KevH]

You can spew all the facts you want at me. At the beginning of Schiano's tenure he was a terrible game manager. By 2006 he had learned trial by fire to be an average game manager. I don't need to waste my time looking up anything. I've watched all the games and I know football.

Yeah. Facts suck!

 

[KevH]

I am mixed on Schiano. On the one hand I think he topped out when he was here. On the other, I think a lot of coaches need to fail in order to grow and Schiano seems the type of guy who probably will grow from having failed.

Having said all of that, we don't owe Schiano anything and he hasn't earned the right to just come in and take the job if he wants it. What Schiano earned was our thanks, and a paycheck that far outstripped his win loss record at RU. He also earned the right a long leash when he was here, he gave that up for a shot at the NFL. Now, if Schiano is interviewed in the open market and it is thought he is the best choice, I'm OK with that, but there should be other candidates. Given the state of the school and reputation of our AD, I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if Schiano was the best fit, but it is not a given.

This is reasonable. I just cringe when I think so many here trust that, in the event RU needs to hire a new coach in the next year or two, the current shot-callers have both the resources and the ability to identify and close the deal on a guy who would unequivocally be head and shoulders above a 2016+ GS who knows the lay of the land, is older and wiser. I'm not saying that guy's not out there. I'm just questioning this administration's ability to get him. It's not like there isn't precedent.

 

[lighty]

"I am mixed on Schiano. On the one hand I think he topped out when he was here"

Just curious for the folks who think we saw Schiano's ceiling as a coach.. why don't you think he would be able to recruit better players in the Big Ten than the Big East?

I don't know if Greg could ever be a great gameday coach, but I do believe he never had the depth here to let us know whether or not he could. IMO, recruiting in a top conference would allow him to build that depth. He did a decent job of recruiting in a conference that was not considered elite. IMO, he would recruit better in the Big Ten.

If you think we've seen the best he can do as a coach, I'm guessing you do not believe he could recruit better in the Big Ten, right?

 

[rutgersdave]

Not arguing for Flood but let's be honest, Schiano ruined Savage's career here with the "wild knight" package.

Maybe ruined his career at Rutgers but saved his life from the OL coached by Flood that was worst than the current Penn State OL. If I recall, we couldn't even run a yard on a regular running play and that's why we had to run out of the wild knight formation.

 

[KnightHound]

Maybe ruined his career at Rutgers but saved his life from the OL coached by Flood that was worst than the current Penn State OL. If I recall, we couldn't even run a yard on a regular running play and that's why we had to run out of the wild knight formation.

So if Flood was so afwul, why did Schiano keep him on the staff? And if GS was such a good recruiter and in charge of everything, why were the oline recruits so bad? Can't have it both ways. Can't blame Flood for the oline, but say GS was great at everything, he has take a hit there too.

 

[RU2055]

So if Flood was so afwul, why did Schiano keep him on the staff? And if GS was such a good recruiter and in charge of everything, why were the oline recruits so bad? Can't have it both ways. Can't blame Flood for the oline, but say GS was great at everything, he has take a hit there too.

In 2010 (or rather Jan 2011), Greg was a hairline away from firing Flood but was convinced by a certain someone to give him another chance, albeit in a reduced role. The thinking was Flood was a nice enough guy, kids liked him and he was a good teacher. But make no mistake, the severe talent drop in the o-line was largely blamed on Flood and he almost lost his job because of it.

In terms of recruiting ability, Greg was a good recruiter in his early years who started to really pick it up before he left. Some would argue that that was mostly due to Ang and Hafley and to a large degree that would be true. However, Greg was an excellent closer and combining that with the abilities of those two made Rutgers a formidable recruiting force at that time. I don't believe people truly appreciated how close to dominant we started to become in recruiting starting in 2011. Sure the big schools still came here and got some, but it was a battle to pull them from Rutgers. In a fantasy world where Greg had not gone to Tampa, our talent level today would be very very different. Guys like Noah Brown, Curtis Samuel, Mike Gisecki, Blacknall, Barkley, Bower, etc etc were all very high Rutgers. No we wouldn't have pulled all of them but bet we would have landed many of them. Timber Creek and the SJ schools highly respected Greg, the North Jersey Parochials were basically Hafley's lock stock and barrel, Fleck had Florida and Maryland and it was very tough to get anybody away from Angeliccio from Eastern PA. Franklin would have a battle on his hand prying Eastern PA recruits from Ang. Of course we had long standing RU strongholds like South Brunswick, St Joe's Montvale and Sayerville. Before Greg left, we were in recruiting Nirvana. We were at the verge .......... alas, he had to go to Tampa.

Look at Ole Miss. Four years ago they started recruiting very well. I see them today and can't help but think, man that could have been Rutgers. We were that close. Oh well.

Today? We're not even in the same recruiting stratosphere.

 

[ArminRU]

In 2010 (or rather Jan 2011), Greg was a hairline away from firing Flood but was convinced by a certain someone to give him another chance, albeit in a reduced role. The thinking was Flood was a nice enough guy, kids liked him and he was a good teacher. But make no mistake, the severe talent drop in the o-line was largely blamed on Flood and he almost lost his job because of it.

In terms of recruiting ability, Greg was a good recruiter in his early years who started to really pick it up before he left. Some would argue that that was mostly due to Ang and Hafley and to a large degree that would be true. However, Greg was an excellent closer and combining that with the abilities of those two made Rutgers a formidable recruiting force at that time. I don't believe people truly appreciated how close to dominant we started to become in recruiting starting in 2011. Sure the big schools still came here and got some, but it was a battle to pull them from Rutgers. In a fantasy world where Greg had not gone to Tampa, our talent level today would be very very different. Guys like Noah Brown, Curtis Samuel, Mike Gisecki, Blacknall, Barkley, Bower, etc etc were all very high Rutgers. No we wouldn't have pulled all of them but bet we would have landed many of them. Timber Creek and the SJ schools highly respected Greg, the North Jersey Parochials were basically Hafley's lock stock and barrel, Fleck had Florida and Maryland and it was very tough to get anybody away from Angeliccio from Eastern PA. Franklin would have a battle on his hand prying Eastern PA recruits from Ang. Of course we had long standing RU strongholds like South Brunswick, St Joe's Montvale and Sayerville. Before Greg left, we were in recruiting Nirvana. We were at the verge .......... alas, he had to go to Tampa.

Look at Ole Miss. Four years ago they started recruiting very well. I see them today and can't help but think, man that could have been Rutgers. We were that close. Oh well.

Today? We're not even in the same recruiting stratosphere.

Good post. Flood is a decent assistant coach that is polished and personable enough to be considered a head coach. Nice guy, but he's over his head and he's not really a leader. You need a guy like Schiano that can take over a room. Hopefully the end is near.

 

[JQRU91]

"I am mixed on Schiano. On the one hand I think he topped out when he was here"

Just curious for the folks who think we saw Schiano's ceiling as a coach.. why don't you think he would be able to recruit better players in the Big Ten than the Big East?

I don't know if Greg could ever be a great gameday coach, but I do believe he never had the depth here to let us know whether or not he could. IMO, recruiting in a top conference would allow him to build that depth. He did a decent job of recruiting in a conference that was not considered elite. IMO, he would recruit better in the Big Ten.

If you think we've seen the best he can do as a coach, I'm guessing you do not believe he could recruit better in the Big Ten, right?

Even if Schiano could recruit better in the Big Ten, you have to account for the fact that the teams we play recruit better, too. Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn State recruit better than West Virginia, Louisville, and Cincinnati do.

 

[NickyNewark51]

Good post. Flood is a decent assistant coach that is polished and personable enough to be considered a head coach. Nice guy, but he's over his head and he's not really a leader. You need a guy like Schiano that can take over a room. Hopefully the end is near.

Have to agree...he lacks that magnetic appeal kids are attracted too...shame because we all want him to succeed...you can't make an apple a peach.

 

[NickyNewark51]

In 2010 (or rather Jan 2011), Greg was a hairline away from firing Flood but was convinced by a certain someone to give him another chance, albeit in a reduced role. The thinking was Flood was a nice enough guy, kids liked him and he was a good teacher. But make no mistake, the severe talent drop in the o-line was largely blamed on Flood and he almost lost his job because of it.

In terms of recruiting ability, Greg was a good recruiter in his early years who started to really pick it up before he left. Some would argue that that was mostly due to Ang and Hafley and to a large degree that would be true. However, Greg was an excellent closer and combining that with the abilities of those two made Rutgers a formidable recruiting force at that time. I don't believe people truly appreciated how close to dominant we started to become in recruiting starting in 2011. Sure the big schools still came here and got some, but it was a battle to pull them from Rutgers. In a fantasy world where Greg had not gone to Tampa, our talent level today would be very very different. Guys like Noah Brown, Curtis Samuel, Mike Gisecki, Blacknall, Barkley, Bower, etc etc were all very high Rutgers. No we wouldn't have pulled all of them but bet we would have landed many of them. Timber Creek and the SJ schools highly respected Greg, the North Jersey Parochials were basically Hafley's lock stock and barrel, Fleck had Florida and Maryland and it was very tough to get anybody away from Angeliccio from Eastern PA. Franklin would have a battle on his hand prying Eastern PA recruits from Ang. Of course we had long standing RU strongholds like South Brunswick, St Joe's Montvale and Sayerville. Before Greg left, we were in recruiting Nirvana. We were at the verge .......... alas, he had to go to Tampa.

Look at Ole Miss. Four years ago they started recruiting very well. I see them today and can't help but think, man that could have been Rutgers. We were that close. Oh well.

Today? We're not even in the same recruiting stratosphere.

You're right about all that...I was devastated when i heard so close to signing day he was leaving..we seemed to be so close to getting where we wanted to be...GS almost had that fence and the future looked great just before we were even accepted into the B1G...can you even imagine the possibilties...Whose Franklin would have been the question today and GS would have had Jopa status in NJ/NYC.

 

[yesrutgers01]

One of the things with Schiano...I feel we would have had about the same record as we had with Flood in 2012 but we know that J Fuller would have most likely stuck. I'm not sure if we would have used him right though. I feel Schiano may have tried him at QB and that could have been a huge mistake. I also believe we may not have been much better then 6-7 wins in 2013 either but, what we know is that he never would have been in the hotseat so I think we may have hung on to more of that class.
The wuestion I have would have been going forward. Would he start filling the gaps we always had in recruiting? Would he have changed his mindset and started bringing in bigger bodies, etc?
Does he stay at a 6-9 win coach and would that be good enough now?

 

[MoobyCow]

One of the things with Schiano...I feel we would have had about the same record as we had with Flood in 2012 but we know that J Fuller would have most likely stuck. I'm not sure if we would have used him right though. I feel Schiano may have tried him at QB and that could have been a huge mistake. I also believe we may not have been much better then 6-7 wins in 2013 either but, what we know is that he never would have been in the hotseat so I think we may have hung on to more of that class.
The wuestion I have would have been going forward. Would he start filling the gaps we always had in recruiting? Would he have changed his mindset and started bringing in bigger bodies, etc?
Does he stay at a 6-9 win coach and would that be good enough now?

I hear a lot about the mythical gaps in recruiting that Schiano always had, but I'm not sure how his gaps were any different than the gaps that every team outside of the top 20 or so always has. Recruiting is hard, projecting who will work out is hard, and some position or another is almost always thin. I mean it's not like Flood came in and suddenly we now have no holes on the roster.

 

[RU2055]

One of the things with Schiano...I feel we would have had about the same record as we had with Flood in 2012 but we know that J Fuller would have most likely stuck. I'm not sure if we would have used him right though. I feel Schiano may have tried him at QB and that could have been a huge mistake. I also believe we may not have been much better then 6-7 wins in 2013 either but, what we know is that he never would have been in the hotseat so I think we may have hung on to more of that class.
The wuestion I have would have been going forward. Would he start filling the gaps we always had in recruiting? Would he have changed his mindset and started bringing in bigger bodies, etc?
Does he stay at a 6-9 win coach and would that be good enough now?

These are all just opinions, so we can just agree to disagree. In the end no one really knows what would have happened.

That said, in my very humble opinion, the 2012 team was a very special team that was the victim of very bad coaching. That squad was essentially the same team from the year prior that also won 9 games - only older and more experienced. They also didn't have to play West Virginia that year. The turning point in that year was the infamous Kent State game. I don't believe Greg would have lost that Kent State game. He would have yanked Nova in the first half and we would have beaten them with Dodd. We were the superior team. Nova was so shell shocked after that game he never really recovered until the following year. That Kent State game defined the entire season. There was a high probability that Greg's staff would have out right won the Big East that year and it would have been our first BCS. The coaching that year was simply terrible.

Now as far as 2013. If I recall, the main issue that year was the DBs. Greg got blamed for "leaving the cupboard bare". But here is the question - since when did DBs struggle under Greg? Yes, Cincy and WV have torched his D but for the entire year? No way. The point is, Greg knew how to develop DBs. That was how he got his coaching career started. I don't believe our defense would have been as putrid as it was under Cohen that year had Greg been the coach. Waters and Glashen - they stopped improving after Greg left. Usually, DBs under Greg have their best years as seniors. Also, the issues with Tyree and Ian Thomas - remember those? Do you think they would have happened under Greg? I don't. All of that off-field stuff would have been nipped in the bud and not allowed to be an issue and affect team chemistry. So, no, I don't believe we would have only won 6 games with Greg's staff in 2013 - mind you in a conference that was essentially CUSA 2.0.

The flip side to this argument is (to be fair to Flood), if Greg was still the coach, I don't think there was any way the Fridge would have worked for him last year.

 

[rutgersdave]

One of the things with Schiano...I feel we would have had about the same record as we had with Flood in 2012 but we know that J Fuller would have most likely stuck. I'm not sure if we would have used him right though. I feel Schiano may have tried him at QB and that could have been a huge mistake. I also believe we may not have been much better then 6-7 wins in 2013 either but, what we know is that he never would have been in the hotseat so I think we may have hung on to more of that class.
The wuestion I have would have been going forward. Would he start filling the gaps we always had in recruiting? Would he have changed his mindset and started bringing in bigger bodies, etc?
Does he stay at a 6-9 win coach and would that be good enough now?

I only wish we go 6-9 the next few years. I don't see it and I'm very good at projections.

 

[PaKnight]

ghz

These are all just opinions, so we can just agree to disagree. In the end no one really knows what would have happened.

That said, in my very humble opinion, the 2012 team was a very special team that was the victim of very bad coaching. That squad was essentially the same team from the year prior that also won 9 games - only older and more experienced. They also didn't have to play West Virginia that year. The turning point in that year was the infamous Kent State game. I don't believe Greg would have lost that Kent State game. He would have yanked Nova in the first half and we would have beaten them with Dodd. We were the superior team. Nova was so shell shocked after that game he never really recovered until the following year. That Kent State game defined the entire season. There was a high probability that Greg's staff would have out right won the Big East that year and it would have been our first BCS. The coaching that year was simply terrible.

Now as far as 2013. If I recall, the main issue that year was the DBs. Greg got blamed for "leaving the cupboard bare". But here is the question - since when did DBs struggle under Greg? Yes, Cincy and WV have torched his D but for the entire year? No way. The point is, Greg knew how to develop DBs. That was how he got his coaching career started. I don't believe our defense would have been as putrid as it was under Cohen that year had Greg been the coach. Waters and Glashen - they stopped improving after Greg left. Usually, DBs under Greg have their best years as seniors. Also, the issues with Tyree and Ian Thomas - remember those? Do you think they would have happened under Greg? I don't. All of that off-field stuff would have been nipped in the bud and not allowed to be an issue and affect team chemistry. So, no, I don't believe we would have only won 6 games with Greg's staff in 2013 - mind you in a conference that was essentially CUSA 2.0.

The flip side to this argument is (to be fair to Flood), if Greg was still the coach, I don't think there was any way the Fridge would have worked for him last year.

Glashen had his best season by far as a senior last year.

Thomas was just flakey, he leaves the team midsession, comes back for the spring, doesn't show up for the first summer session, but tries again to come back for the second. I don't see a positve outcome regardless of who was the coach.

 

[rutgersguy1]

"I am mixed on Schiano. On the one hand I think he topped out when he was here"

Just curious for the folks who think we saw Schiano's ceiling as a coach.. why don't you think he would be able to recruit better players in the Big Ten than the Big East?

I don't know if Greg could ever be a great gameday coach, but I do believe he never had the depth here to let us know whether or not he could. IMO, recruiting in a top conference would allow him to build that depth. He did a decent job of recruiting in a conference that was not considered elite. IMO, he would recruit better in the Big Ten.

If you think we've seen the best he can do as a coach, I'm guessing you do not believe he could recruit better in the Big Ten, right?

I think he probably could recruit better in the B10, mind you Hafley/Angelichio were quite helpful at the end. But forget about them. Say he would recruit better, to me that looks at things in a vacuum. Sure he might recruit better in the B10 vs. the BE but so what. That's not the comparison to make. The comparison is how would he recruit against his competition in the conference. That's really the question IMO, not B10 recruiting vs. BE recruiting. It's very unlikely he's going to outrecrut Michigan/PSU/OSU/MSU on a consistent basis so to me it has to be made up with coaching and I'm not big on him in that dept.

Put it this way too. I don't follow recruiting much but I'm pretty sure we were usually in the top half or even top 2-3 for recruiting in the BE right? I think Louisville/Pitt/WVU/RU were swapping around spots on any given year. So compared to our competition in the BE he was recruiting fine IMO, that wasn't the problem. To me he couldn't win the BE not because his recruiting was lacking but because of the coaching, specifically the offense.

So don't compare RU BE recruiting vs. RU B10 recruiting. Compare RU BE recruiting vs BE conference mates recruiting and now RU B10 recruiting vs. B10 conference mates recruiting. I don't think Schiano or frankly most coaches are going to put us on par with our B10 conference mates in recruiting even if our recruiting rankings improved in the B10. Your rank might go up but it's still sort of like running in place or even moving back possibly. So to me it has to be made up for with system and coaching.

I'm not big on recruiting anyway, never complain about who we get. Just get me Ws with whomever you bring on board. I'm always about the coaching and finding players that fit whatever system you got and having them perform. It's why I actually prefer the spread, whether read option or air raid. I think it helps level the field a bit if you can possibly create a high powered offense with lesser rated players. Even if we had a coach that tried to implement it and fail, I would try again. In my mind it's the best avenue to outperforming your perceived status on the college landscape.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I only wish we go 6-9 the next few years. I don't see it and I'm very good at projections.

See- I don't understand that...2016/17, the schedule gets easier. We go from a first year starter at QB - ok, maybe to another first year starter hahaha
but OL should be significantly better and experienced. RB's- we will still have Hicks/Martin, Our TE's are getting very good experience and seem to be good, WR has talent. Our entire offense should have mostly multi year players on it with some very good talent.

On defense- Hamilton coming back is huge. Then we have Turay, Ford, looks like Hogan is a player and the young DT's coming back with experience. LB may have a little bit of flux but we will start seeing depth and our secondary may actually be the strength of the team.

I don't think we are anywhere near the top of the division but if we can win 5-6 this year, then I can easily see 7-8 next year.

 

[rutgersdave]

See- I don't understand that...2016/17, the schedule gets easier. We go from a first year starter at QB - ok, maybe to another first year starter hahaha
but OL should be significantly better and experienced. RB's- we will still have Hicks/Martin, Our TE's are getting very good experience and seem to be good, WR has talent. Our entire offense should have mostly multi year players on it with some very good talent.

On defense- Hamilton coming back is huge. Then we have Turay, Ford, looks like Hogan is a player and the young DT's coming back with experience. LB may have a little bit of flux but we will start seeing depth and our secondary may actually be the strength of the team.

I don't think we are anywhere near the top of the division but if we can win 5-6 this year, then I can easily see 7-8 next year.

Actually, I was going to change my response since next year can easily be 6-7 wins. It all depends on the cross division games.

 

[MoobyCow]

See- I don't understand that...2016/17, the schedule gets easier. We go from a first year starter at QB - ok, maybe to another first year starter hahaha
but OL should be significantly better and experienced. RB's- we will still have Hicks/Martin, Our TE's are getting very good experience and seem to be good, WR has talent. Our entire offense should have mostly multi year players on it with some very good talent.

On defense- Hamilton coming back is huge. Then we have Turay, Ford, looks like Hogan is a player and the young DT's coming back with experience. LB may have a little bit of flux but we will start seeing depth and our secondary may actually be the strength of the team.

I don't think we are anywhere near the top of the division but if we can win 5-6 this year, then I can easily see 7-8 next year.

We should be better next year. Here's where I have a bit of an issue, with a favorable schedule, many multi year starters, good experience you can see 7-8 wins. Forgive me if I'm not excited about the upside of 7-8 wins with a favorable schedule and a deep experienced team.

 

[PaKnight]

We should be better next year. Here's where I have a bit of an issue, with a favorable schedule, many multi year starters, good experience you can see 7-8 wins. Forgive me if I'm not excited about the upside of 7-8 wins with a favorable schedule and a deep experienced team.

If you look at who also is in the division, you can be a good team and still have a hard time matching up with OSU, MSU ...