Best RU dunker of all time ?

[wheezer]

a while back I researched how many dunks Bailey had and if anyone had more..... I could not find one college player anywhere near his
total.....

and this becomes more impressive since he only was able to dunk for three years, his frosh year it was not allowed, the well known
Lew Alcindor rule...... there is no doubt that if Alcindor was allowed to play and dunk for four years he would have put up massive numbers

wikipedia:

"While at Rutgers, Bailey was a formidable player, displaying a strong inside presence in addition to possessing great leaping ability. He was famous for his conversion of "alley oop" passes into slam dunks. The rule allowing dunking was re-instituted in college basketball beginning with the 1976-77 season, Bailey's sophomore year. Bailey's slam dunks were an immediate sensation at Rutgers, and Bailey led the team with 88 dunks as a sophomore. He increased this number to 116 as a junior. However, as a senior, he was met with constant double and triple teaming, and Rutgers' opponents "held" him to 79 dunks as a senior"

 

[jellyman]

a while back I researched how many dunks Bailey had and if anyone had more..... I could not find one college player anywhere near his
total.....

and this becomes more impressive since he only was able to dunk for three years, his frosh year it was not allowed, the well known
Lew Alcindor rule...... there is no doubt that if Alcindor was allowed to play and dunk for four years he would have put up massive numbers

wikipedia:

"While at Rutgers, Bailey was a formidable player, displaying a strong inside presence in addition to possessing great leaping ability. He was famous for his conversion of "alley oop" passes into slam dunks. The rule allowing dunking was re-instituted in college basketball beginning with the 1976-77 season, Bailey's sophomore year. Bailey's slam dunks were an immediate sensation at Rutgers, and Bailey led the team with 88 dunks as a sophomore. He increased this number to 116 as a junior. However, as a senior, he was met with constant double and triple teaming, and Rutgers' opponents "held" him to 79 dunks as a senior"

Great find - my memory was a little off, but pretty close.

To the poster who said Bailey added weight for the NBA in college: This is not true. He gained SOME weight as he matured in college, but not too much, and was probably 220 to 225 pounds, at 6'9" when he graduated. Though he played center in college, he was drafted as a Power Forward, and played PF his 1st year in the NBA. Seattle had Jack Sikma as their Center.

Bailey had his best NBA season in his 2nd season, playing PF. Seattle had a strange and interesting team. They had no dominant stars, a shooter more than a power center in Sikma, 2 starters who were both really PF's (an under-sized Lonnie Shelton and Bailey), 2 older guards in Paul Westphal and Fred Brown, a terrific 6th man shooter in Vinnie Johnson (drafted 7th by Seattle right after Bailey at #6) and 7 players who averaged at least 11.5 points per game, 6 who averaged at least 13 PPG. They had 9 players who averaged 21.5 minutes per game or more.

It was only after Bailey got traded away from Seattle that he bulked up to play Center - and lost his athleticism, and became essentially a back-up Center, albeit a relatively productive one. As a back-up center he was a solid (not great) defender, a solid rebounder, and could reliably hit the 15-18 foot jump shot. He was NOT a reliable post scorer as a bulked up center - that was not his role, either.

 

[Scangg]

I was a freshman in 02 and that's when I started following RU basketball. Sadly I can't really remember anyone who was all that impressive as a dunker. Maybe Adrian Hill as a prower dunker?

Doucoure is hopefully going to hold that title soon

 

[jrh51]

Dane Miller didn't do it often, but he had the athleticism to be a phenomenal finisher & dunker

 

[ecojew]

Surprised to not see any mention of Roy Hinson, who took over for Bailey. I'd go with Bailey as the clear first choice with Hinson second. He could replace the ? for the best dunker of the 80s in a post above.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Bailey was the 6th pick in the '79 Draft and 2nd Center after Bill Cartwright.

That's correct. And if you count guys who went in '78 (we were talking about a two-year span here), and the guys who weren't in either of those drafts, but were playing (you know, guys like Larry Bird, Mychal Thompson, Mike O'Koren, David Greenwood, Phil Ford, Ron Brewer, Dave Corzine, Mike Gminski, Jim Paxson).

Jammin' James was great, but no need for hyperbole.

 

[rume]

That's correct. And if you count guys who went in '78 (we were talking about a two-year span here), and the guys who weren't in either of those drafts, but were playing (you know, guys like Larry Bird, Mychal Thompson, Mike O'Koren, David Greenwood, Phil Ford, Ron Brewer, Dave Corzine, Mike Gminski, Jim Paxson).

Jammin' James was great, but no need for hyperbole.

 

[rume]

Steve Worthy!

 

[BoroKnight]

Not to wander off subject, but speaking of dunks, there are those close to the team that will tell you that had the dunk been legal in 1976 (it was re-legalized the following season) that we might have had a better showing against Michigan. Some missed layups were blamed on nerves. Not saying it would have made a total difference, but it is interesting to ponder.

Oh, yeah, Bailey by a mile. Quantity has to matter on some level. This isn't a halftime contest, after all. It's about the games.

 

[knightfan7]

That's correct. And if you count guys who went in '78 (we were talking about a two-year span here), and the guys who weren't in either of those drafts, but were playing (you know, guys like Larry Bird, Mychal Thompson, Mike O'Koren, David Greenwood, Phil Ford, Ron Brewer, Dave Corzine, Mike Gminski, Jim Paxson).

Jammin' James was great, but no need for hyperbole.

Awww, what do you know? Your toilet flushes in the wrong direction.

 

[BoroKnight]

Jamin James Baily by a mile. He was much better as a Freshman and Soufmore, being thinner and more agile. His Junior Year he put on weight for the NBA and after that he wasn't that impressive with the dunks.

Bailey could not dunk as a freshman, as the NCAA made the dunk legal again in 1976-77 after banning it in the late 1960s because of you-know-who.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Also a little off topic but bailey was also an excellent shot blocker. As was Roy. Roy may have been a better shot blocker and became a better pro imo than bailey. Roy was very raw as a fresh but he developed very well. Tom Young was a really good coach. Bailey was a big time star though in the college game. That nit game of bailey versus ISU and Larry bird back when the nit still was a very good tourney was epic.

 

[Turtle31]

No contest, JB

 

[SkilletHead2]

Awww, what do you know? Your toilet flushes in the wrong direction.

Do you know I've actually tested that!

And listen, Jammin' James was one of my favorite all time Scarlet Knights. I was just winding jelly up a bit on the Dixon/Bailey stuff. I remember seeing Dixon on whatever the equivalent of Midnight Madness was back in the day and thinking, "This guy is going to be the greatest ever." Sadly, that didn't happen!

And the toilet flushes whatever way it cares to in both hemispheres.

 

[c_husk]

Was curious about what player the board feels was the "best dunker" ever at RU.

Defining best dunker by having all of the following: in-game, power & acrobatic, frequency, and crowd respsonse/ momentum shifting.

I don't know if he is RU best dunker of all time, but I saw the best dunk of any player pro or college in a game at the RAC. John Battle threw an alley-oop pass to Roy Hinson. Hinson caught the ball with in mid air with his back to the basket and slammed it down with his back facing the basket. It was unbelievable and the RAC went crazy.

 

[wheezer]

I don't know if he is RU best dunker of all time, but I saw the best dunk of any player pro or college in a game at the RAC. John Battle threw an alley-oop pass to Roy Hinson. Hinson caught the ball with in mid air with his back to the basket and slammed it down with his back facing the basket. It was unbelievable and the RAC went crazy.

----
The thing with Bailey is that many of his dunks were the Ally oops, and he did not try to be spectacular making them....more, just to get it done...... I am sure he had some that would raise an eyebrow or two..

the one year with Rodney Duncan feeding him was very nice.... the two of them took apart a ranked Cincinnati team at the garden, which was always one of my favorite games to be at.

I suspect that if Bailey was playing today for us it would be hard to put up such numbers with the skill level and multitude of
big men in the major conferences....... but, for his time, he was
something else

as I mentioned in a thread about a year ago, I believe he was the dunking king of college, all time, and I wish it were recognized somehow....

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Dixon easily. Bailey could not throw them down like Waliyy could. End of story. OP got the criteria wrong. Dixon was a huge disappointment as a player, but dunkability? Waliyy.

Loved Jamming James. Probably our best player ever (EDIT: Nah, Phil Sellers). And, as I said, in games, no comparison. Arguing that he was the best center in the nation his last two years is looking at the situation through Scarlet-colored lenses. He was about #4 or #5 at center during that stretch, and maybe top 15 nationally overall.

Thank you for that edit, Skillet. Phil.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

----
The thing with Bailey is that many of his dunks were the Ally oops, and he did not try to be spectacular making them....more, just to get it done...... I am sure he had some that would raise an eyebrow or two..

the one year with Rodney Duncan feeding him was very nice.... the two of them took apart a ranked Cincinnati team at the garden, which was always one of my favorite games to be at.

I suspect that if Bailey was playing today for us it would be hard to put up such numbers with the skill level and multitude of
big men in the major conferences....... but, for his time, he was
something else

as I mentioned in a thread about a year ago, I believe he was the dunking king of college, all time, and I wish it were recognized somehow....

Single best dunk I ever saw at Rugers, James Bailey, his sophomore year, against Pitt in the Barn. He took off from the left corner of the foul line, soared in a tuck position straight to the baseline, made a 90 degree pivot in mid air, went under the basket then extended for a reverse dunk. The crowd's initial response was stunned silence, followed by a growing roar. None of us believed what we had just seen. It was simply the best by the best.
Loyal

 

[zebnatto]

We talking most prolific or the guy who'd win a contest?

 

[Caliknight]

Dixon.

 

[ScarletKid2008]

We talking most prolific or the guy who'd win a contest?

Prolific

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Really, this is a joke ... I know Dixon won that contest, but Bailey is the choice, in another world from any other RU player. In fact, you might argue that Bailey was one of the "best" dunkers in the history of the NCAA (I will not say the best, but one of the best).

Measuring RU's best, or any best, dunker by performance in the artificial environment of a dunk contest is ridiculous. In-game is the only measure.

It is true that Copeland, Worthy, Savage and a few others had some great dunks in games: Acrobatic, crowd-pleasing, and huge plays. But really ... there is only one, the one and ONLY James, "Jammin' James" Bailey.

He had just SO many dunks, it was ridiculous ... and in some ways he had so many dunks in games that him getting dunks seemed commonplace, and not extra-ordinary. But only because he was just ridiculously prolific, and because it was a long time ago, his dunks are discounted, and Dixon's dunks, which were few in real games - and hardly relevant since RU was not that good, is elevated since he was more current, and because he won a contest.

Perspective: In the 1977-1978 season the Louisville Cardinals (and I believe they were national champs that year) were nick-named the "Doctors of Dunk." They had Daryl Griffith and the McCray brothers leading the way, I think. As a team they had about 80 dunks - which seemed HUGE to the world. In fact, St. Johns had to play Louisville in the NCAA tourney, and Louie Carnessecca was asked if he and St. Johns would be intimidated by Louisville's dunking reputation (interviewed on TV, and in the print media). He literally laughed, and said something like, "Not at all ... we played against James Bailey, who by himself had almost twice as many dunks as the entire Louisville team."

The above was true: In the 1977-78 season, Bailey had around 310 made FG's. Of those, 130 (that is right, to spell it out ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY) were dunks. He AVERAGED 4 dunks PER GAME during a 1st team All American season. I was unable to find career or single season stat records, but that has got to be a top 10 season dunk performance ALL TIME in the NCAA.

Part of the reason he was so prolific was he was simply better than every other player he faced (he WAS the best Center in the country his last 2 seasons, and he WAS one of the top 5-7 players in the country each of those years also). He could essentially get a dunk against almost any player, at almost any time, he wished. He got dunks in the regular offense, off offensive rebounds, off steals, off fast breaks, off passes, off his own dribble drives, off drop steps. Any way you can imagine a dunk being created, Bailey did so.

All other RU players were essentially amateur dunkers compared to Bailey. Period, end of discussion.

@jellyman @ScarletKid2008 @SkilletHead2

Sports Illustrated acknowledged Bailey as best in the US in its article on the re-introduction of the dunk to the college game.

https://www.si.com/vault/1977/03/14/560853/dunkers-are-strutting-their-stuffs#

 

[ScarletNut]

To expand on jelly's post, when RU played Louisville in the NCAA tourney (we were up by 18 in the first half, then lost), Bailey made a dunk over one of their players (forget who it was) that was in position to get a charging foul on Bailey but JB literally jumped over him for the dunk without committing a foul. He didn't even realize he did that til he was told about it after the game. BTW, Louisville didn't win the championship that year.
If Bailey wasn't so prolific, we'd all be talking about Hollis Copeland (I agree with RUbaseball78) as the most acrobatic dunker of all time. Hollis, at 6'6", was all arms and legs (probably had the limbs of a 7 footer) and could literally touch the top of the backboard with ease. He would take off for some of his dunks 10-12 feet from the basket running full speed on some fast breaks.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Great find - my memory was a little off, but pretty close.

To the poster who said Bailey added weight for the NBA in college: This is not true. He gained SOME weight as he matured in college, but not too much, and was probably 220 to 225 pounds, at 6'9" when he graduated. Though he played center in college, he was drafted as a Power Forward, and played PF his 1st year in the NBA. Seattle had Jack Sikma as their Center.

Bailey had his best NBA season in his 2nd season, playing PF. Seattle had a strange and interesting team. They had no dominant stars, a shooter more than a power center in Sikma, 2 starters who were both really PF's (an under-sized Lonnie Shelton and Bailey), 2 older guards in Paul Westphal and Fred Brown, a terrific 6th man shooter in Vinnie Johnson (drafted 7th by Seattle right after Bailey at #6) and 7 players who averaged at least 11.5 points per game, 6 who averaged at least 13 PPG. They had 9 players who averaged 21.5 minutes per game or more.

It was only after Bailey got traded away from Seattle that he bulked up to play Center - and lost his athleticism, and became essentially a back-up Center, albeit a relatively productive one. As a back-up center he was a solid (not great) defender, a solid rebounder, and could reliably hit the 15-18 foot jump shot. He was NOT a reliable post scorer as a bulked up center - that was not his role, either.

Jelly

Believe it or not ...JB played his junior year at 200 and his senior year nearly at 230

He gained 30 lbs for his senior year ...go look at the team picture and you will say ...wow

 

[ColonelRutgers]

To expand on jelly's post, when RU played Louisville in the NCAA tourney (we were up by 18 in the first half, then lost), Bailey made a dunk over one of their players (forget who it was) that was in position to get a charging foul on Bailey but JB literally jumped over him for the dunk without committing a foul. He didn't even realize he did that til he was told about it after the game. BTW, Louisville didn't win the championship that year.
If Bailey wasn't so prolific, we'd all be talking about Hollis Copeland (I agree with RUbaseball78) as the most acrobatic dunker of all time. Hollis, at 6'6", was all arms and legs (probably had the limbs of a 7 footer) and could literally touch the top of the backboard with ease. He would take off for some of his dunks 10-12 feet from the basket running full speed on some fast breaks.

We played Louisville in 1975. Bailey was a freshman the following year.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

And was it Charles Johnson (not sure of name) who played at the same time who always used to slap his head when he scored? We had some unusual players back then.

Charles Jones, transfered to LIU Brooklyn and led nation in scoring.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Dahntay could throw it down. Bishop Daniels had an un-godly one.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Thank you for that edit, Skillet. Phil.

No worries, Phil. Just working too late at night in the original! And excellent catch on the SI article! Of course, the author also says that the dunk is a difficult shot, and given that it's SI, he might have been their "8 and under" girls la liga reporter.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

No worries, Phil. Just working too late at night in the original! And excellent catch on the SI article! Of course, the author also says that the dunk is a difficult shot, and given that it's SI, he might have been their "8 and under" girls la liga reporter.

I actually remember that SI article and looked it up to see if it was there. I remember as I was reading it I couldn't believe they hadn't mentioned JB, and then there it was, the "best of them all." That was before the days of information overload when mentions actually seemed to mean something!

L

 

[yellowlot]

Yellow How old are you?This sounds 'a bit generational.

Touche

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Not to wander off subject, but speaking of dunks, there are those close to the team that will tell you that had the dunk been legal in 1976 (it was re-legalized the following season) that we might have had a better showing against Michigan. Some missed layups were blamed on nerves. Not saying it would have made a total difference, but it is interesting to ponder.

Oh, yeah, Bailey by a mile. Quantity has to matter on some level. This isn't a halftime contest, after all. It's about the games.

Very true against Michigan ...we missed so many makabke shots that game ...ugh

 

[REB92]

Andre Lamoureux

 

[TODDB33]

Andre Lamoureux

The man with a zero gap

 

[TODDB33]

The man with a zero gap

Should have been zero gap. If I recall he flunked out after 1 semester

 

[knights1212]

Andre played more than one semester.He averaged 1.2 ppg in the 1990-91 season. He did not play the next season but returned in 1992-93 and averaged 7.8 ppg that season.

 

[wheezer]

Jelly

Believe it or not ...JB played his junior year at 200 and his senior year nearly at 230

He gained 30 lbs for his senior year ...go look at the team picture and you will say ...wow

-----------
I remember it being a common thought amongst the fans that he came in too heavy his senior year..... apparently he was advised to put
on some weight and he went too far......

 

[zebnatto]

I graduated RU in '74. did Mike Dabney ever make it to the dunk era?

 

[PaKnight]

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

 

[JavaDunk18]

Not even an issue. Bailey! As jellyman said, dunks in games are all that matters, and Bailey was not only tremendous, but a legend. One of the innovators of the alley-oop..put Bailey as a senior on that 76 team (when he was a freshman), and they beat Michigan and take Indiana to the wire in the final..