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Biggest bust?: Tyson Stay-Puff

True, but you get what you can afford. People want to pretend that money isn't an issue, but it is. Especially for us.

No that’s not it in this case. The issue is more about the style player we went after with Acuff rather than the talent level itself. If we couldn’t afford someone whose natural role is catch and shoot complimentary with high efficiency and serviceable defense, then we should’ve just focused on the D. That and bringing in more developmental type guys with multiple years of eligibility like Jordan.

Acuff was the poor fit here. We brought in one of the highest usage players in D1 from a losing mid-major program to come play one lone super senior year alongside two guys that we knew for sure, off the bat, we wanted taking the most shots on the team.
 
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Acuff and Derdack should have defined rolls, they need to be on the floor with the correct personnel who allow them to be put in positions to succeed.
Acuff and Derdack add complementary scoring to a healthy Ace and Dylan.
If Acuff isn’t a catch and shoot guy…let him shoot off the dribble.
I’ve seen him play defense and get rebounds.
His 3rd option scoring can win games if used correctly.
Personally, I feel much better with the ball in Acuff’s hands than JWill

It’s not as simple as your making it. Some guys just don’t do well as complimentary players. They become too indecisive. That’s Acuff. The numbers when he’s in the game with Dylan speak for themselves. He’s done literally nothing. And that doesn’t even account for his weak D.
 
Poor fit doesn’t mean he’s the bust. More was expected from Martini and fit isn’t the reason he’s underperformed. The reason is lack of talent.
 
It’s not as simple as your making it. Some guys just don’t do well as complimentary players. They become too indecisive. That’s Acuff. The numbers when he’s in the game with Dylan speak for themselves. He’s done literally nothing. And that doesn’t even account for his weak D.
Shelby respects your opinions, even the many he disagrees with…but can you please cease the ‘complimentary’ verbiage already and learn the appropriate term ?
 
It’s not as simple as your making it. Some guys just don’t do well as complimentary players. They become too indecisive. That’s Acuff. The numbers when he’s in the game with Dylan speak for themselves. He’s done literally nothing. And that doesn’t even account for his weak D.
Coach him up, explain to him and practice exactly what you want to see him do when on the floor with Dylan.
 
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True, but it’s not splitting hairs to suggest the one who was supposed to be a starter, the spot up shooter when one of the 2 top players draws a double team and the only other inside presence alongside whoever the 5 is and instead hasn’t proved any better than the others with lower expectations is the clear biggest bust.
Not saying your opinion of who the biggest bust is not valid. Acuff was probably expected to give us the biggest scoring punch so not going to disagree with you. I just look at all four of them with such huge disappointment that I equate all four of them being people living poor and in poverty. We can debate which one of the four has the most money, but in all reality they all have very little money and all four still live in poverty.
 
Coach him up, explain to him and practice exactly what you want to see him do when on the floor with Dylan.

Is it just that easy?

Many keep saying "Davis, JWill and Derkack just need to hit their open 3s".
Great. Just saying it doesn't make it happen.

Imagine taking a 1st baseman and saying "We already have a better 1st baseman. We need a SS to pair with him. We're going to coach you up to that".

Acuff, Derkack, JWill and Davis are all ball dominant offensive players with little ability to play off ball as a catch and shoot player.

You can't just say "well just make the shots now".

You are 100% in defining roles and then getting players to fit those roles.
The problem is that HC Pike has to do that.
My opinion is they ARE fitting the defined role.
The problem is HC Pike is defining the role wrong.

If the entire offense is based on ball dominant isolation drives then all the roles will be ball dominant isolation drives and all the players you recruit will be ball dominant isolation players.
 
We don't have catch and shoot players because our offense doesn't prioritize catch and shoot players off ball.

Just because we want catch and shoot roles doesn't mean the staff does.
 
Don’t entirely understand the analogy, but I guess I agree. Are you sort of saying they all give out shitty Halloween candy even if one of them should be giving out better candy ?
 
Don’t entirely understand the analogy, but I guess I agree. You are sort of saying they all
We don't have catch and shoot players because our offense doesn't prioritize catch and shoot players off ball.

Just because we want catch and shoot roles doesn't mean the staff does.
Half true. We don’t have good passers and that’s why we don’t have better ball movement and open shots. Harper dishing to Grant for a dunk isn’t ball movement. It’s not team ball.

There’s always been a disconnect with the PGs under Pike and the ability to create good perimeter looks.

Look at Purdue. Multiple passes to yield preferred matchups and shots. We don’t do that. We’re one pass to iso….not all assists in the scorebook are the same.
 
Is it just that easy?

Many keep saying "Davis, JWill and Derkack just need to hit their open 3s".
Great. Just saying it doesn't make it happen.

Imagine taking a 1st baseman and saying "We already have a better 1st baseman. We need a SS to pair with him. We're going to coach you up to that".

Acuff, Derkack, JWill and Davis are all ball dominant offensive players with little ability to play off ball as a catch and shoot player.

You can't just say "well just make the shots now".

You are 100% in defining roles and then getting players to fit those roles.
The problem is that HC Pike has to do that.
My opinion is they ARE fitting the defined role.
The problem is HC Pike is defining the role wrong.

If the entire offense is based on ball dominant isolation drives then all the roles will be ball dominant isolation drives and all the players you recruit will be ball dominant isolation players.
I would never ask a player to do something he’s not capable of, there’s only few dozen humans on the entire planet good enough to play short stop in big leagues😊

I would ask Acuff to do something he’s good at, not what he can’t do.

I don’t expect Davis, Williams or Derdack to hit 3s,,, neither should Pike…they should only shoot them with 1 second on the shot clock
 
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Don’t entirely understand the analogy, but I guess I agree. Are you sort of saying they all give out shitty Halloween candy even if one of them should be giving out better candy ?

They are all giving out choclate for Halloween because they have always given out chocolate. But then Harper moved in and has better chocolate.
"But all we have is chocolate? We don't have skittles".
HC Pike said "That's cool. We're tripling down on chocolate. We don't need skittles."

If you asked the staff what role was envisioned for JWill, Davis, Derkack and Acuff - I imagine it would all be "Ball handler and scorer at the hoop on drives. Have the ball in their hands and create their own shot."

It wouldn't be "Off ball movement to get open for a 3pt shot when the defense collapses on Ace/Dylan".

If the role was #2 - then we have the wrong guys.
If the role was #1 - then we brought in the right guys based on their prior experience.
 
Shelby respects your opinions, even the many he disagrees with…but can you please cease the ‘complimentary’ verbiage already and learn the appropriate term ?

I don’t follow. Do you prefer “naturally inclined to play at a lower usage level” instead of “complimentary”?
 
I would never ask a player to do something he’s not capable of, there’s only few dozen humans on the entire planet good enough to play short stop in big leagues😊

I would ask Acuff to do something he’s good at, not what he can’t do

That's the problem.
What Acuff is good at is duplicative and not needed.

College games are only 40min and Harper/Ace (while healthy) were always playing nearly 30mpg.
Asking Acuff (or the others) to do something they are good means everyone else isn't doing anything they are good at.
And you get JWill dribbling around while Ace stands in a corner.

If Harper is Vlad Jr, Acuff/Derkack/JWill and Davis are Pete Alonso.

My opinion is that HC Pike wants 4 1st baseman.
Hence the roster construction.
 
They are all giving out choclate for Halloween because they have always given out chocolate. But then Harper moved in and has better chocolate.
"But all we have is chocolate? We don't have skittles".
HC Pike said "That's cool. We're tripling down on chocolate. We don't need skittles."

If you asked the staff what role was envisioned for JWill, Davis, Derkack and Acuff - I imagine it would all be "Ball handler and scorer at the hoop on drives. Have the ball in their hands and create their own shot."

It wouldn't be "Off ball movement to get open for a 3pt shot when the defense collapses on Ace/Dylan".

If the role was #2 - then we have the wrong guys.
If the role was #1 - then we brought in the right guys based on their prior experience.
You skipped Martini. Is he the wrong type of lawnmower for the slope of our yard ?

Shelby thinks Martini was recruited for the off ball sharpshooter but that utensil is not in Harper’s cutlery drawer.

Harper slices and dices to cutters. Not guys beyond the arc.
 
Coach him up, explain to him and practice exactly what you want to see him do when on the floor with Dylan.

It doesn’t always work that way. Not every kid is going to be able to go from leading the NCAA in shot attempts to comfortably floating into a role where the ball will mostly not be in their hands.

He’s not a catch and shoot type like Cam. If he’s going to get “his” shot off the dribble he needs to have the ball more to do it. But we want the ball in Dylan’s hands most of the time. Thats the issue.
 
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I don’t follow. Do you prefer “naturally inclined to play at a lower usage level” instead of “complimentary”?
I think he wants you to spell “complementary” (with an “e” rather than a “i”) correctly.
 
Do better. Learn something today.

ok Im waiting. Teach me. What word do you prefer? I consider the 4th scoring option out of 5 to be a complementary player to the primary options. I’m happy to consider other terminology.

The point remains - Acuff wasn’t only the top shot attempter on Eastern Michigan. He might’ve led the entire D1. Asking a player to take on a massively subdued role and assuming he’ll thrive after 4 years of being the “go to” player doesn’t seem like a great fit expectation to me.
 
ok Im waiting. Teach me. What word do you prefer? I consider the 4th scoring option out of 5 to be a complementary player to the primary options. I’m happy to consider other terminology.

The point remains - Acuff wasn’t only the top shot attempter on Eastern Michigan. He might’ve led the entire D1. Asking a player to take on a massively subdued role and assuming he’ll thrive after 4 years of being the “go to” player doesn’t seem like a great fit expectation to me.
Saw what you did there. Degaz explained it to you so you snuck in the correction here as if you didn’t get it wrong in the multiple other posts.
 
I think he wants you to spell “complementary” (with an “e” rather than a “i”) correctly.

Oh geez - seriously? KS making me look stupider for replying to this guy by the day.

I’m sure everyone else enjoys reading a flood of spelling posts on a basketball chat forum. Cool beans.
 
That's the problem.
What Acuff is good at is duplicative and not needed.

College games are only 40min and Harper/Ace (while healthy) were always playing nearly 30mpg.
Asking Acuff (or the others) to do something they are good means everyone else isn't doing anything they are good at.
And you get JWill dribbling around while Ace stands in a corner.

If Harper is Vlad Jr, Acuff/Derkack/JWill and Davis are Pete Alonso.

My opinion is that HC Pike wants 4 1st baseman.
Hence the roster construction.
Funny😊
 
Acuff was supposed to play a lot. Whether starter or 6 man is irrelevant - you don’t bring in a super senior with the prior usage numbers he had to come play a utility role with token playing time. I was responding to Shelby on refuting the notion that he was brought in just to back up Dylan. That is most certainly not true.

Whether his injury made him worse or not, well really never know for sure since he’s never played at this level before. At present time, he’s not good enough at defense, and he failed to demonstrate an ability to contribute productively in the offense alongside Dylan. The latter observation has nothing to do with his injury as he’s had games where he’s produced on offense, they’ve just come when he’s slotted back in to his MAC role as a ultra high usage player while Dylan was out.
Agree, he was supposed to have a big, and vital role, a veteran scorer to help the kids out. No doubt about that and almost seemed he was heading there recently. He was starting to look a little better, shooting 5-7 and 5-10 in back to back games against NW and Mich, and then is glued to the bench again for the last two. In the last ten games he has four double digit nights, two 3 point nights, and four 0 point nights where he took a combined 4 shots. Dylan does seem to have the biggest effect on him, his playing time, and his effectiveness, which really shouldn't be the case. He should effect the other "lead guards" more.
 
It’s not as simple as your making it. Some guys just don’t do well as complimentary players. They become too indecisive. That’s Acuff. The numbers when he’s in the game with Dylan speak for themselves. He’s done literally nothing. And that doesn’t even account for his weak D.
Acuff was effective in a non lead role two years ago. You are very focused on his role last year.
 
Curious to know if Acuff’s film at E.M. reveals better movement than he’s showing now. He is stands in one spot and stagnant without the ball which puts less pressure on the defender. I view him as a scorer who needs to take the bulk of the shots in an offense but he can’t have that role with Dylan and Ace on the court. He’s not a point who distributes and moves. He likes to shoot but he’s not a high percentage shooter whether spot up or driver.

He just has to find his spots wherever can.

GO RU
 
Acuff was effective in a non lead role two years ago. You are very focused on his role last year.

Effective? I’m not sure how anyone could be effective on an 8 win team. Ironically, that team had a heck of a lot more talent than his team from last year despite the record being worse. You can’t look at anyone’s stats in a vacuum on teams that bad because there’s too much stat padding in garbage time on non-competitive teams.

Acuff has never played on a successful team before. That matters when you also don’t have good career efficiency numbers.
 
Curious to know if Acuff’s film at E.M. reveals better movement than he’s showing now. He is stands in one spot and stagnant without the ball which puts less pressure on the defender. I view him as a scorer who needs to take the bulk of the shots in an offense but he can’t have that role with Dylan and Ace on the court. He’s not a point who distributes and moves. He likes to shoot but he’s not a high percentage shooter whether spot up or driver.

He just has to find his spots wherever can.

GO RU
That's what our players do, stand still knowing they aren't getting passed to. Why run around for nothing while the iso guys chuck hot garbage. Our roster has not a single purposeful ball-movement ball handler on it.

Is Harper a big time scorer ? Yes. Does he sometimes dish for someone else's gimme buckets ? Yes. Is there a coordinated offense with all five players in motion, passing, screening and cutting to give everyone open looks ? No. That's not Pike basketball.

We're iso or two-man offense and the other three are just decoys.
 
Effective? I’m not sure how anyone could be effective on an 8 win team. Ironically, that team had a heck of a lot more talent than his team from last year despite the record being worse. You can’t look at anyone’s stats in a vacuum on teams that bad because there’s too much stat padding in garbage time on non-competitive teams.

Acuff has never played on a successful team before. That matters when you also don’t have good career efficiency numbers.
He played with a bunch of chucks and didn't get caught up in it. I agree, he's never been in a winning college environment. Martini is the only one on the team that has, we see where that's gotten us. Took him 2/3rds of the year to be comfortable.
 
He played with a bunch of chucks and didn't get caught up in it. I agree, he's never been in a winning college environment. Martini is the only one on the team that has, we see where that's gotten us. Took him 2/3rds of the year to be comfortable.

Martini is a good fit. Fit and talent aren’t the same thing. Martini is a career role player type - whether in a starting or a bench role.
 
No that’s not it in this case. The issue is more about the style player we went after with Acuff rather than the talent level itself. If we couldn’t afford someone whose natural role is catch and shoot complimentary with high efficiency and serviceable defense, then we should’ve just focused on the D. That and bringing in more developmental type guys with multiple years of eligibility like Jordan.

Acuff was the poor fit here. We brought in one of the highest usage players in D1 from a losing mid-major program to come play one lone super senior year alongside two guys that we knew for sure, off the bat, we wanted taking the most shots on the team.
I think if Acuff had been healthy from the beginning, they would have figured out his role in the early part of the season. HIs points per game were never going to translate to the Big 10. You still needed a 3rd scorer on this team and he just needed time to adjust, which he never was able to get.
 
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Coach him up, explain to him and practice exactly what you want to see him do when on the floor with Dylan.
Zap you honestly don’t think he’s been coached up? Or what his role is when he’s in?
 
Zap you honestly don’t think he’s been coached up? Or what his role is when he’s in?
I could see how he would defer to Dylan while in the game with him at the same time.
He would have to be told to not be shy and take your shots off the dribble.
 
I could see how he would defer to Dylan while in the game with him at the same time.
He would have to be told to not be shy and take your shots off the dribble.
It’s more than this though. He’s not comfortable in the flow of the offense. Not with anything - not passing, not moving without the ball, not screening - nothing. It’s not simply a matter of tentative shooting. He seems largely uncomfortable in a role where he’s not the one navigating the offense. And when your also a poor defender, that’s going to translate into a seat on the bench until such time where a need for his services as anchor of the offense are called upon when Dylan is out.
 
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Most definitely do not listen to “reports” from RU pre-season camp. None of us should ever be sucked into that again,
That came from Richie who attended several practices and not some schmo like Carino who misleads his audience every year.
 
ok Im waiting. Teach me. What word do you prefer? I consider the 4th scoring option out of 5 to be a complementary player to the primary options. I’m happy to consider other terminology.

The point remains - Acuff wasn’t only the top shot attempter on Eastern Michigan. He might’ve led the entire D1. Asking a player to take on a massively subdued role and assuming he’ll thrive after 4 years of being the “go to” player doesn’t seem like a great fit expectation to me.
Several things, top shot attempter because he had to carry that EMU team otherwise it was total trash without him. An experienced player knows how to alter their game based on their role. And he's shown in several games that he can put up points with four double digit games in January. He's barely played in the last two games which tells me he's likely suffering from whatever is running through the locker room. So you're bad fit narrative is failing already. The injury played a huge part in how he's been used and how much he could be used.
 
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Without picking on individuals, we can definitely all violently agree that this staff has been HORRENDOUS putting together rosters out of the portal.

Like Frankenstein body parts sticking out backwards type horrendous

So so disappointing...
Yes, we can acknowledge that the staff has been horrendous at putting together rosters out of the portal. But we also have to acknowledge the lack of resources they’ve had to work with. Rather spreading the dollars thin, might be better to concentrate the dollars to get fewer players, but with better chances of success.
 
We don't have catch and shoot players because our offense doesn't prioritize catch and shoot players off ball.

Just because we want catch and shoot roles doesn't mean the staff does.

Good point - and a fundamental problem with pikes offense. It’s why the two catch-and-shoot guys (Hayes and martini) ALSO haven’t performed on O.

As far as the others (ball dominant O guys) - all he did was bring in guys that are lesser versions of Dylan and ace

He needed to construct an offense AND bring in players that would COMPLIMENT Dylan and Ace and he did neither

—-

on the other issue of “disappointments” - I don’t put Dercack in that category. I don’t remember much hype for him. If anything he has been used far more than expected (and arguably more than he should BECAUSE the others havent contributed as much as hoped). He has more years left and can still develop into a more consistently solid player
 
That came from Richie who attended several practices and not some schmo like Carino who misleads his audience every year.
Did Richie attend “several” practices when Acuff was still healthy? Anyway, I won’t be fooled again. Cue The Who.
 
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