Breaking in a new QB,&3/5 of the OL do we take a step back?

[Exit117]

We really don't have the luxury of that. Recruiting is so tough to keep going for Rutgers that there is no room for growing pains. A program like Texas can put together a 6-7 season and still pull in tons of 4* recruits, same with the Michigan's of the college world. I hope we can at least match last seasons 8-5 record and grow from there.

 

[Pils86]

I would guess on average teams replace 2 OL starters each year so we are not in bad shape. With Lumpkin, Muller and Denman that is three solid experienced players. We have 4th year players in Nelson and Brodie, 3rd year player Miller, 2.5 year Applefield and then Cole, Heeman and Webb as 2nd year players. I think the starting OL will be good but depth is an issue, mainly due to the dearth of OL in the 2013 class. If we could find a JUCO to help the depth that would be nice.

As for QB I expect average play, some mistakes and some nice plays. Our run game needs to carry the load and Martin and Hicks look like they can.

 

[seels2662]

I think we do...a little. But I think we pick up that loss with a much much better defense.

 

[Bill 86]

I think the biggest blow is losing Friedgen. Look What he did to Nova last year. Would really be great to have him around day to day...let alone game day

 

[BigLou]

We do have experienced depth at RB & WR so hopefully that helps. Early on design a quick hot offense to get the QB comfortable and hope the offensive line gels.

 

[satnom]

Great thread topic and legitimate concerns. Our starting qb needs to build confidence and manage the game to some extent in the beginning of the season while we let our line and rbs carry the bulk of the offense. Would love Hicks and Martin to get most of the carries and bring PJ along slowly (3-5 carries/game) until we play Ohio St at home and then pour James all over the Ohio St. defense.

GO RU

 

[Phi_1055]

Replacing a lot of starters every year is the nature of the beast. Every team has to do it every year. It's not like RU is losing and has to replace a bunch of NFL-caliber or even all-conference players and has to patch the holes with suspect new players.

This post was edited on 3/29 2:29 PM by Phi_1055

 

[BigLou]

Originally posted by Phi_1055:
Replacing a lot of starters every year is the nature of the beast. Every team has to do it every year. It's not like RU is losing and has to replace a bunch of NFL-caliber or even all-conference players and has to patch the holes with suspect new players.

This post was edited on 3/29 2:29 PM by Phi_1055

The linemen we lost had a lot of experience as did the QB. The thought of having to replace 3 lineman and a great blocking fullback with an inexperienced QB is more than most teams face each season. This is a legitimate concern.

Or to put it another way, when breaking in a new QB with little past game experience would you rather have 3,4,0r 5 returning lineman versus 2 returning lineman?

 

[Phi_1055]

Originally posted by BigLou:

Originally posted by Phi_1055:

The linemen we lost had a lot of experience as did the QB. The thought of having to replace 3 lineman and a great blocking fullback with an inexperienced QB is more than most teams face each season. This is a legitimate concern.

Or to put it another way, when breaking in a new QB with little past game experience would you rather have 3,4,0r 5 returning lineman versus 2 returning lineman?

QB is undoubtedly the most important position and losing a four-year starter to be replaced by someone with little or no live game experience will likely result in a drop off in productivity at the position early in the season. But probably half the Div 1 teams are replacing their starting QB and a few lineman and will be in a similar situation. Unless a team is losing a bunch of very high caliber players it's just business as usual.

 

[JQRU91]

Originally posted by satnom:
Great thread topic and legitimate concerns. Our starting qb needs to build confidence and manage the game to some extent in the beginning of the season while we let our line and rbs carry the bulk of the offense. Would love Hicks and Martin to get most of the carries and bring PJ along slowly (3-5 carries/game) until we play Ohio St at home and then pour James all over the Ohio St. defense.

GO RU

I could be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere it can take a year and a half to come back fully from an ACL tear.

 

[RUTGERZ_R00LZ]

Originally posted by BigLou:

Or to put it another way, when breaking in a new QB with little past game experience would you rather have 3,4,0r 5 returning lineman versus 2 returning lineman?

It all depends. Consider TTFP, they would love to replace all their linemen, but the same wiffers will be back.

 

[Ru2bnj]

Breaking in a new QB is always a big question mark. Hopefully the OL will be solid or near what they were last year. I like the RBs and the WRs should be solid...think Peele will help a lot being back. I think the TEs and FB will be ok. I believe the defense has a good chance to be a lot better. Going 8-5 again will not be easy, RU won 7 out 8 winnable games last year ( the OSU/MSU/Wisky and Neb were not winnable imo). They did well in close games. If they can get to a bowl again in will show some consistency and hopefully bode well for the future.

 

[Tango Two]

We might take small step back based on breaking in new players at key positions.

This will just fuel the Flood must go crowd.

 

[rufeelinit]

Originally posted by Pils86:
I would guess on average teams replace 2 OL starters each year so we are not in bad shape. With Lumpkin, Muller and Denman that is three solid experienced players. We have 4th year players in Nelson and Brodie, 3rd year player Miller, 2.5 year Applefield and then Cole, Heeman and Webb as 2nd year players. I think the starting OL will be good but depth is an issue, mainly due to the dearth of OL in the 2013 class. If we could find a JUCO to help the depth that would be nice.

As for QB I expect average play, some mistakes and some nice plays. Our run game needs to carry the load and Martin and Hicks look like they can.

Hopefully no step backwards. Not sure Denman has taken enough snaps to be considered a solid experienced player at this point in his career.

 

[ScarletKnightRider]

Tough to tell. We lose a handful of key players but so does every other team in CFB. Did we factor in the experience and growth of players that showed promise who are now veterans going into 2015? Our potential breakout players (theyre ALWAYS there every year and no one EVER sees them coming) and most importantly, the simple fact that for the first time in 4 years we will be playing the same teams we played a season ago. (35 different opponents over the past 3 seasons)

I also think the inexperience at QB should be looked at as an unknown instead of a negative. Every time I turn my head theres a freshman or 1st year starter at QB elsewhere who performs just fine, or even better than the predecessor in many cases. I think experience at the QB position in CFB is kind of overrated to be honest. Success is mainly dependent on the skill of the QB along with the level of coaching/oline.

Nova had how many starts under his belt entering his Jr. year? And he still sucked because he had Rob Spence in his ear and not Freidgen/Teel. Tom Savage had how many starts under his belt when he first took over? And all he did was become a freshman All-American and lead us to 9-4 because his talent could not be denied despite limited experience. If Gio/HR/Laviano are gonna be good, then theyre gonna be good as long as everyone else does their job. Experience shouldn't even matter that much if we are preparing/protecting them properly.

 

[WhiteBus]

To answer the OP's question. ..yes. Don't expect 8-5 next year.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Exit 117

Maybe

Take a good hard look at our stats from last year and compare them to other power 5 8-5 teams from last year

We will either have to be a lot better on the field to be 8-5 or continue to be 5-1 I. 4th quarter decided games

I think we will be a lot better on the field this year...but the inexperience at oline and Qb and fast they get going will determine if we improve enough on the field to be 8-5 without having such a big record in close game

Might happen. We have answers there. They just haven't played

And the total offense was not so amazing last year in the first place

A big question

 

[yesrutgers01]

I could easily see us taking a step back but keep in mind that Rettig will now be in his 2nd year here and 3rd over all in college. Comes with at least as high of a HS ranking as we have ever had here at QB. Laviano has had 3 years here. Fridge is still a part of the staff and I have a feeling that McDaniel may end up our best OC in a long time. He is certainly QB friendly.
I think McDaniel/Fridge will have a lot of nice quick safe plays dialed up and the style of running of our RB's helps a lot. Our 3 main guys are not the type that need a major hole opened, all 3 have great vision and patience. That will help a lot.

As mentioned above, Denman has gotten a lot of reps so he should be good to go- Lumpkin is a All B1G type LT, Muller(I hope he can stay at OG) also has a lot of experience and is a mauler.

I think we will experience some growing pains. Who ever is QB, will have some brain fart moments. Let's just hope to minimize those. What I do like is that we have a slew of very good talent coming back on offense as well. PJ/Martin/Hicks/Carroo/Patton/Grant/Lumpkin/Muller - that is some serious elite talent. All of them will help a lot.

I also expect our ST's and Defense to be much better. Same with coaching as well. Rossi, McDaniels(even Fridge) all in their 2nd years- that is huge.

So, while we may take a slight step back in some areas, we may step forward in areas as well.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by seels2662:
I think we do...a little. But I think we pick up that loss with a much much better defense.

Probably better RB play too throughout the season. I dont think we will get better QB play, but we could get close enough.

 

[Exit117]

Knowing what Flood has to replace going in, what does he need to win to keep the "Fire Flood" crew at bay? To me, anything more than 6-6 and a bowl game should keep them silent. If we go 7-5, regardless of a bowl win after that, would make me think Kyle did a pretty good job, and recruiting,the key,will pick up a notch.

 

[sherrane]

Originally posted by Exit117:
Knowing what Flood has to replace going in, what does he need to win to keep the "Fire Flood" crew at bay? To me, anything more than 6-6 and a bowl game should keep them silent. If we go 7-5, regardless of a bowl win after that, would make me think Kyle did a pretty good job, and recruiting,the key,will pick up a notch.

Go undefeated. At least half of this board didn't want him as evidenced by how quickly they turned on him. He had last year's team at 5-1 before being shown that RU was not B1G ready now (or any time in the past) and it basically took a dismantling of UNC to temporarily quiet his critics. The "fire Flood" crowd will be in full voice before November.

From my historical observations, trying to replace 3 starters on the OL is worse than replacing 2 or 4. When replacing 4 OL, those players worked together with the 2nd unit the year before which means the lone starter needs to learn to play with a new group. Throw in the new QB, new TE, and new OC and it is reasonable to expect the offense to struggle early in the season. The good news is that this RU team appears to be the strongest at RB in recent history. Justin Goodwin has averaged 4.38 yards per carry over the last two seasons and he'll likely move to another position or serve as the #5 RB.

 

[beaced]

So ,still heady on Spring Blossom Optimism,let me point out that there is always a strong potential for the team to gel early and have an amazingly great season.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

I spent some time with RutgersAl on Sunday and I have been transformed We will be just fine in every aspect of the game.. 11-1 and a major bowl game...

 

[Tango Two]

Originally posted by beaced:
So ,still heady on Spring Blossom Optimism,let me point out that there is always a strong potential for the team to gel early and have an amazingly great season.

Let's hope

 

[Knight Shift]

Originally posted by ScarletKnightRider:
Tough to tell. We lose a handful of key players but so does every other team in CFB. Did we factor in the experience and growth of players that showed promise who are now veterans going into 2015? Our potential breakout players (theyre ALWAYS there every year and no one EVER sees them coming) and most importantly, the simple fact that for the first time in 4 years we will be playing the same teams we played a season ago. (35 different opponents over the past 3 seasons)

I also think the inexperience at QB should be looked at as an unknown instead of a negative. Every time I turn my head theres a freshman or 1st year starter at QB elsewhere who performs just fine, or even better than the predecessor in many cases. I think experience at the QB position in CFB is kind of overrated to be honest. Success is mainly dependent on the skill of the QB along with the level of coaching/oline.

Nova had how many starts under his belt entering his Jr. year? And he still sucked because he had Rob Spence in his ear and not Freidgen/Teel. Tom Savage had how many starts under his belt when he first took over? And all he did was become a freshman All-American and lead us to 9-4 because his talent could not be denied despite limited experience. If Gio/HR/Laviano are gonna be good, then theyre gonna be good as long as everyone else does their job. Experience shouldn't even matter that much if we are preparing/protecting them properly.

I like your analysis. Too soon for optimism or pessimism. There will be rough spots, for sure. But there could be huge upside potential if one of the QBs steps up.

 

[RUnion]

Anyone who doesnt think we take a step back offensively this year is delusional. In what universe does anyone think an unproven freshmamncan come in and outperform a 4 year senior starter at QB ?? Even if one of these new guys turns out to be a solid player later in their career I am certainly preparing for a rocky performance this year from whoever it is... and I expect the hair trigger footbal experts here on this board to start blaming Flood for the teams failings. This season and our fans reaction to it is soo predictible it is not even funny. The running game , without our senior fullback... and senior starting center will also suffer a setback especially since I expect the passing game to flounder a little). I will be there every game... rooting on the team.... NOT screaming to fire Flood and supporting RU through this rebuilding year, And every team does not go through THIS every year. Not every team loses a starting QB every year... no less a 4 year QB.

This board will be painful to be around..
This post was edited on 4/5 7:27 AM by RUnion

 

[Knight Shift]

Who is the unproven freshman? We have Rettig and Laviano, who are not freshman. Maybe Gio?

And why are there two threads on the same topic?

 

[Scarlet Shack]

IMO...i think the defense will be significantly better...the lost pieces of experience are being replaced by bigger and better athletes

Our offense numbers weren't huge last year...and that has to get better. There are answers on the oline to replace but it is to me the
Biggest off season questiom

I think rettig will be fine:

Think season comes down to offense and the offense comes down the oline

 

[Knight Shift]

Originally posted by Scarlet Shack:
IMO...i think the defense will be significantly better...the lost pieces of experience are being replaced by bigger and better athletes

Our offense numbers weren't huge last year...and that has to get better. There are answers on the oline to replace but it is to me the
Biggest off season questiom

I think rettig will be fine:

Think season comes down to offense and the offense comes down the oline

Agreed on defense. I am not ready to even pencil in Rettig as the starter. Seems a lot of fans think this is a forgone conclusion at QB?

 

[ILOVERUTGERS]

Originally posted by RUnion:
Anyone who doesnt think we take a step back offensively this year is delusional. In what universe does anyone think an unproven freshmamncan come in and outperform a 4 year senior starter at QB ?? Even if one of these new guys turns out to be a solid player later in their career I am certainly preparing for a rocky performance this year from whoever it is... and I expect the hair trigger footbal experts here on this board to start blaming Flood for the teams failings. This season and our fans reaction to it is soo predictible it is not even funny. The running game , without our senior fullback... and senior starting center will also suffer a setback especially since I expect the passing game to flounder a little). I will be there every game... rooting on the team.... NOT screaming to fire Flood and supporting RU through this rebuilding year, And every team does not go through THIS every year. Not every team loses a starting QB every year... no less a 4 year QB.

This board will be painful to be around..
This post was edited on 4/5 7:27 AM by RUnion

Bingo! This is reality

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Originally posted by WhiteBus:
To answer the OP's question. ..yes. Don't expect 8-5 next year.

Why? Have you consider what Rutgers' opponent have coming back for next season? I doubt it because if you didn't Rutgers has a chance to repeat their record from last year based on that alone.

Here's a quick rundown on RU opponents 2015 spring:

WSU- a cluster**** on defense and the offense has may been OK with a new QB, but their top 2 targets are gone. That new QB targeted them 75% of the time last year because they could get open when compared to the other receivers. Their OL is still a problem

KU- a joke

Michigan- new HC, new system. Their QB situation is worse than Rutgers. The OL was bad last year and it took some hits with the departure of 2 starting senior linemen. One quit and the other was suspended. Where are the playmakers at receiver? Funchess is gone, so takes on his role at receiver? Their defense is switching to a combo of 3/4 and 4/3 due to personnel issues. They loss some experience along the DL and that's one of the reasons for the switch.

Nebraska- new HC and new system (pro style off). Don't have the personnel in place to run the offense. Best receiver in history gone. Top RB gone and an spread QB asked to be a pro style QB now. OL was troublesome last year, but with as many starters to replace as Rutgers there are questions. Can they make the change from spread to a pro style? Defense lost a lot in the front 7 and the defense wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination.

PSU- Ton of talent at receiver, but do we have the Tom Savage effect on Hackenberg after the beating he took last year? The OL is still an issue and matters weren't help with TE Jesse James leaving early. He was a safety net for Hackenberg. Defense does have 2 stud DT, but the DE position took hits and the secondary was questionable last year and even more so this year due to a ton of experience lost by way of depth and at safety. The MLB was the real deal last year. Without the MLB, the other 2 were just OK.

Maryland- has to replace almost the entire front 7. I think only 1 starter returns up front. The secondary was OK. Offense is similar to the defense in having to replace a ton of starters with experience. I believe the QB, top 2 receivers and 2 or 3 starters along the OL.


It comes down to which team can correct their weaknesses or hide them first. Rutgers schedule sets up to go 4-0 non conference and they have a real chance at 4 league games based on this.

 

[Knight Shift]

Inexperienced QB a problem?

Mariotta (3 Star Recruit) did just OK as a freshman.

Manziel (3 Star Recruit) gutted out his freshman year.

John O'Korn at Houston had a fine freshman year and then fell off.

 

[Bill 86]

Regarding PSU losing Jessie James, Mike Gesicki will be every bit as good or better than him

 

[ScarletKnightRider]

Originally posted by Knight Shift:
Inexperienced QB a problem?

Mariotta (3 Star Recruit) did just OK as a freshman.

Manziel (3 Star Recruit) gutted out his freshman year.

John O'Korn at Houston had a fine freshman year and then fell off.

PIGGYBACK: our very own Savage took us to 9-4 as a true frosh and was a freshman all american.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Originally posted by Bill 86:
Regarding PSU losing Jessie James, Mike Gesicki will be every bit as good or better than him

Potential... the game isn't play on potential. Gesicki came out of HS with a lot of hype, but no one knows for sure if he'll be as good as James. 11 total catches for the season hasn't proven anything yet.

 

[Knight Shift]

Originally posted by ScarletKnightRider:

Originally posted by Knight Shift:
Inexperienced QB a problem?

Mariotta (3 Star Recruit) did just OK as a freshman.

Manziel (3 Star Recruit) gutted out his freshman year.

John O'Korn at Houston had a fine freshman year and then fell off.

PIGGYBACK: our very own Savage took us to 9-4 as a true frosh and was a freshman all american.

Good Point.

Some More:

Anu Solomon, Arizona, Great freshman year
Kaaya, Miami, Freshman
Gunner Kiel had a great year at Cincinnati after transferring in from ND

 

[mullerpesq]

I sort of see Fridge as a positive this year with this situation. I envision him sitting back in his living room breaking down tape to see where the strengths and gaps are and coming up with strategies and plays that work best.

An article on just what Fridge is doing and how would interest me.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Originally posted by ScarletKnightRider:
Tough to tell. We lose a handful of key players but so does every other team in CFB. Did we factor in the experience and growth of players that showed promise who are now veterans going into 2015? Our potential breakout players (theyre ALWAYS there every year and no one EVER sees them coming) and most importantly, the simple fact that for the first time in 4 years we will be playing the same teams we played a season ago. (35 different opponents over the past 3 seasons)

I also think the inexperience at QB should be looked at as an unknown instead of a negative. Every time I turn my head theres a freshman or 1st year starter at QB elsewhere who performs just fine, or even better than the predecessor in many cases. I think experience at the QB position in CFB is kind of overrated to be honest. Success is mainly dependent on the skill of the QB along with the level of coaching/oline.

Nova had how many starts under his belt entering his Jr. year? And he still sucked because he had Rob Spence in his ear and not Freidgen/Teel. Tom Savage had how many starts under his belt when he first took over? And all he did was become a freshman All-American and lead us to 9-4 because his talent could not be denied despite limited experience. If Gio/HR/Laviano are gonna be good, then theyre gonna be good as long as everyone else does their job. Experience shouldn't even matter that much if we are preparing/protecting them properly.

So Nova and Spence were the guys allowing 48 pts a game? Gotcha.I agree Fridge did wonders with Nova and made him more consistent but he was not the problem his Jr year by a long shot. Hell, we did win one shootout and lost one in OT. In fact we won every game we had a chance to win minus Fresno St that year (and the 2 games Gary did not play in). He was not as good that year but he had no chance in too many games. You must know that. Just like Natale or Savage had no chance vs Cinci in the 9-4 year that you mention. No D, no run game, No W.

I totally agree that our QB will be as good as the team around him. Very few are able to elevate the team like Gary did at times during his 4 years. Mainly he was very good when everyone else was good or very good. I expect Rettig to have some growing pains. Watch any team not named OSU last year and the young QB's have their ups and downs. In our style of play we should be more concerned about running the ball and stopping the run. That is BIG football. If our QB can keep plays alive with his feet and make some great throws that helps too. Converting on 3rd and medium will be huge.

Nobody here knows what will happen next year. I think our OL will perform well against at least half of our schedule. How they do against the best teams we play will separate our W's from our L's.

I also agree with those who think our D will be better this season but that too remains to be seen. I certainly think we have a chance to improve in stopping the run against the top teams (by stopping I mean slowing down really).