Camden - Manasquan
- Thread starter S_Janowski
- Start date
U keep making the same dumb point lol you can't overturn a game that's already played. Haven't u seen games end on bad calls in sports before? You can't double back and give the other team the win after it happens.
Ok. These semantics don’t really matter.
The refs were unable to exit because they were interfered with. One ref was grabbed by a Camden coach. The others were blocked. These are not permissible actions by coaches and school administrators. THEN and ONLY THEN the call was changed. Do you believe the call would have been changed if these non permissible actions had not happened? It is clearly a no. We can all see the movement of the refs as they are working their way off the court. They were done and the game was over.
It’s a bad precedent to set to oveturn games in the the courts. The court ruled correctly
If I am Manasquan, I hang a banner CJ group 2 champs . And another banner group 2 semifinal Manasquan 46, Camden 45
March 5, 2024
Those kids won that game.
If I am Manasquan, I hang a banner CJ group 2 champs . And another banner group 2 semifinal Manasquan 46, Camden 45
March 5, 2024
Those kids won that game.
Yeah, you are probably right. This is definitely the call of a guy who, in the best spot on the court to see the play AND the clock, wasn't sure if it was good or not
I agree that since the NJSIAA currently has no policy/procedure for overturning a game result based on an official's call you cannot just invent such on the spot. That noted, the NJSIAA has a TON of work to do here. We're very likely going to see replay mandated for all playoff games moving forward (think it's already in effect for football). The process/procedure for officals recognizing the game is 'officially' over and how they leave the court/field likely needs work (in this case it really seemed like they made no indication that they were questioning the last sequence until after they were leaving the court; NJSIAA also needs to enforce that NO ONE CAN IMPEDE the officials' path as they exit the court/field). The NJSIAA also needs to say they're working on changes to help these situations moving forward, not just say, 'yeah, it was a mistake, sorry 'bout that but now it's done'.
Joe P.
And I’m sure there were bad calls against Camden earlier in the game which affected the margin at the very end. That last play didn’t happen in a vacuum. The last second doesn’t count more than the first.
Kingz made a point about coaching needing to be better and getting your team to play well consistently throughout the entire game and I agree. That noted, this doesn't mean that officiating and its process/procedures do not need to improve as well. That last sequence was an almost unprecedented breakdown on multiple levels that absolutely needs to be addressed, not just 'yeah, it was a mistake, oh well'. I'm not saying the officials should be publicly shamed or anything like that; that noted, the NJSIAA needs to do everything they can to try to ensure that the sequence of events that happened after that game ended should never occur again.
Joe P.
Last edited:
Lol what’s the point of even playing the championship games now that the veneer is off. NJSIAA is rigging games, they aren’t going to fix shit.
He did what exactly you're trained to do there...sell the call, whether you're sure of it or not.Yeah, you are probably right. This is definitely the call of a guy who, in the best spot on the court to see the play AND the clock, wasn't sure if it was good or not
In watching some of the clips it definitely looks like the officials were impeded from leaving the court (I'm guessing the people in the video clips are Camden staff/personnel). I'm wondering if the NJSIAA does something to address this for the future (the officials gave no visible indication the call made on the court wasn't 'final' and didn't look like they were trying to meet to discuss the call until after this all happened).
Joe P.
Funny, bc that's exactly what the refs did here.
It's amazing how far the human mind can go to twist and justify things. It's the reason society will never really be just.
We have video evidence that is indisputable.
Camden lost the game. Manasquan won. We can go on pretending that isn't the case, but it's clear, blatant, nonsense.
Camden got bad calls, squan got bad calls. Whatever. End of the game, ball goes up within the clock and goes in. Manasquan won the game. PERIOD
I'm talking about a day later your reading comprehension skills aren't the best lol
absurd, dopey take....first, hypothetically let's say Manasquan should have been called for goaltending in the first quarter but wasn't. Say a spectator recorded it on video. That early Camden basket shouldn't count but Manasquan's last basket should ?
second, the rules don't include video review. they're supposed to find fans with cell phone video ? what if someone texts TV footage ? should that count too ?
Do you think the Big10 should have invalidated the Ohio State win last year and given us the win ?
The Manasquan - Camden game was decided as the rules required. Period. NJSIAA can't make up new rules on the fly. That's an idiotic expectation.
the refs had no intention of discussing the shot until after Camden coaches made them and were yelling (well can't say that but they were animated).
There's a lot of emotion in this thread leading to some unfounded statements. Not sure why there is such emotion about this.
We all know the call was wrong. It's not the first time such a thing has happened (as Rutgers fans know).
When I was a young dude, Maryland got cheated out of the ACC Championship vs. Duke on the last play of the tournament (1980 -- can be seen on YouTube, ha ha). The no-call was as obviously wrong as the Manasquan/Camden call. I've never forgotten it, but I also knew it was unreasonable to think the results would be changed after the fact. The phrase "slippery slope" comes to mind...
Last edited:
That is what is wrong with officiating now. You should never have to “sell the call”. The call is the call. And theatrics have no place in officiating. Refs have made themselves the story in way too many games.
I am not for overturning the results 1-2-3 days later. But there is no way that anyone can say that the man in this video was not influenced to change his call.
The video you have provided shows that. He was not seeking anyone’s opinion until he was approached by coaches and administrators from Camden.
Pretty much what I said to parents in town last night over some cocktails. And most agreed. Some with kids in the program.
No one "made them" discuss and change the call...the Camden coaches were doing the same thing the same thing the Manasquan coaches were doing after it was changed (heck, as they started huddling up, coaching for both teams where trying to get in on it to argue their point). I don't get where this whole "Camden blocked their path so they couldn't get off the court", or "Camden or the NJSIAA rep made them change the call"...nothing in the video supports that.
Selling the call is basically Officiating 101. If it's a close play, you certainly don't want to come up unsure...you make an emphatic call, and then ask for help if needed/appropriate. That's not "theatrics", that ref did what he was trained to do.
maybe made them is incorrect but they def did not intend to discuss it. The refs were just standing there watching the celebration, one was leaving. I could buy their story they are telling if they all immediately huddled up but that didn't happen. The huddle didn't happen until Camden coach interfered.
There is a difference from confidence and theatrics. And officiating has gone from making confident “emphatic” calls to theatrics and making the call about me and inserting themselves in the outcome. This is the culmination of the change in the way officiating has progressed over the years.
The interference by Camden’s staff / officials is a definite issue . This nonsense about Manasquan not scoring or running down the clock in the 4th quarter and thus “ they deserved to lose”… you haven’t watched enough sports games to see the stupidity in that statement. Game is done… however the bigger issue for me and others is Kevin…if that is the former ( Camden) player than that is what the state needs to question. How did he get that game assignment?
I agree that you can't go back 3 days later and reverse the outcome, nor should a judge be ruling on the 'winner' of a HS sports game (unless some horrendously/unprecedently flagrant/malicious infraction happened). That said, the NJSIAA really should be actively working to ensure this type of situation doesn't happen again as much as they reasonably can. A whole sequence of events occurred that shouldn't have been allowed to happen and so far the NJSIAA's response has basically been 'yeahp, there was a big error but rules are rules'.
Joe P.
Last edited:
Have you considered researching your repeated (many, many times) comment about one of the referees being a Camden alum?
It's how conspiracy theories happen...keep posting it enough, and people might start to believe it.
If who was mentioned early on as being that Kevin… then I suspect he was who I think it was. If it was him as an outside , onlooker then he had no business being in the middle of the discussion.
Why can't you?
When the outcome is painfully obvious and undeniable? What outcome is actually changed? Just the correct outcome is recognized rather than going on with the charade of nonsense that everyone can see.
Judges have an out for pretty much almost anything called "in the interests of justice" bc the letter laws and procedures don't always do what is painfully obviously right.
Squan literally won the game.
First off, because your by-laws clearly say that you can't...the Manasquan lawsuit has no chance since the NJSIAA followed their by-laws...they reverse the call, and Camden has a much easier lawsuit if they want to pursue it.
Refs screwed up...it really sucks for all parties...but nothing can be done about it after the fact based on the rules that all schools in the state agree to when they sponsor high school sports and join the NJSIAA.
Yes.
And your idiotic analogy falls vastly short, and shows the pains you've gotta go through to justify the unjustifiable. Like seriously, do you guys wake up in the morning and start the day by slamming your heads into the wall just for good intellectual output?!
Judgement calls in fouls in the middle of the game, that could result in infinite possibilities is not in the same frigging subdivision as an indisputable clock issue that decisively, 100%, beyond ANY doubt ever, easily, objectively, undeniably decides a winner a loser without any other outcome possible.
They don't want to hear refs screwed up lol they want something magical to happen and they reverse the call right now. Which never happens they won't let it go
I'm not advocating that they change the outcome...but, you certainly are peddling the fact that the Camden coach and AD did nothing wrong...Am I wrong?
