Can Chol be the stretch 4 ?

[RUDieHard]

At 6'8, can Chol develop to be the stretch 4 we've been longing for?

 

[zebnatto]

It may be the role he’s best suited for.

 

[willisneverrana43]

This is almost like speculating what role the Yeti can fill for us. It'd be nice to first see him on the court.

 

[richthedentist]

At 6'8, can Chol develop to be the stretch 4 we've been longing for?

Aundre going to start at the four with Gavin at the three

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Who will be next year's candidate for stretch 4?
Isn't by default a college 4 is a stretch 4?
Stretch 4 is just a 4 and maybe you can use "old school 4" for a guy who isnt a stretch 4?

Stretch 4s need to know the words to Toto songs.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Who will be next year's candidate for stretch 4?
Isn't by default a college 4 is a stretch 4?
Stretch 4 is just a 4 and maybe you can use "old school 4" for a guy who isnt a stretch 4?

Stretch 4s need to know the words to Toto songs.

Yep, Stretch 4 is quickly becoming an outdated term. Just about all of them (4 position) need to be able to shoot the 3.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Need to create ......can Wolf be an old school 4?

 

[Scangg]

Who will be next year's candidate for stretch 4?
Isn't by default a college 4 is a stretch 4?
Stretch 4 is just a 4 and maybe you can use "old school 4" for a guy who isnt a stretch 4?

Stretch 4s need to know the words to Toto songs.

Next year it's Ace obviously

Chol is pretty clearly best suited to play the 4

Wolf can play some 4, but he really needs to add an outside shot. We don't even really know much about his shooting since he didn't attempt pretty much anything outside the paint last year

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

At 6'8, can Chol develop to be the stretch 4 we've been longing for?

He was recruited to play that role.

 

[kcg88]

My concern with Chol is that he turns into what Tray Jackson was for Seton Hall -- a tall guy but without the defense or rebounding skills to be playable at the 4 or 5.

 

[toby83]

would be awesome if ended up being a Tre Mitchell light (Umass/Texas/WVU, and now Kentucky lol) type of player , even though Mitchell plays a little soft , doesn't play much defense, but skilled enough other areas

 

[MiloTalon13]

would be awesome if ended up being a Tre Mitchell light (Umass/Texas/WVU, and now Kentucky lol) type of player , even though Mitchell plays a little soft , doesn't play much defense, but skilled enough other areas

Chol looks skilled and athletic enough - my worry is the "he's never seen a shot he doesn't like" mentality. We have one guy like that already in Hyatt. Tough to have two guys like that.

One of the biggest problems last year was that the highest-usage guys weren't the highest-efficiency guys. That can be largely fixed with coaching.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Chol looks skilled and athletic enough - my worry is the "he's never seen a shot he doesn't like" mentality. We have one guy like that already in Hyatt. Tough to have two guys like that.

One of the biggest problems last year was that the highest-usage guys weren't the highest-efficiency guys. That can be largely fixed with coaching.

 

[Knight Owl]

Chol is a stretch 3 right now.🤷‍♂️ He needs to get used to his new bigger body and get more physical. Might take a couple of years for him to really contribute anything other than shooting. I foresee stat lines for him like 15 mins, 10 points, 1 reb in a few BIG games.

 

[RutgersChow]

Chol looks skilled and athletic enough - my worry is the "he's never seen a shot he doesn't like" mentality. We have one guy like that already in Hyatt. Tough to have two guys like that.

One of the biggest problems last year was that the highest-usage guys weren't the highest-efficiency guys. That can be largely fixed with coaching.

Pike is great, but if you play tough defense you can pretty much take whatever shots you want. You will never be a GREAT team until you stop guys from taking shots that are bad shots for them. As far as Chol's defense, it's easy to teach good athletes how to play defense.

 

[hoquat63]

Hir a couple of 3s at today’s practice

 

[MiloTalon13]

Pike is great, but if you play tough defense you can pretty much take whatever shots you want. You will never be a GREAT team until you stop guys from taking shots that are bad shots for them. As far as Chol's defense, it's easy to teach good athletes how to play defense.

Agreed on the part about bad shots
When your least efficient guys take more shots than your most efficient guys it’s tough to win

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Pike is great, but if you play tough defense you can pretty much take whatever shots you want. You will never be a GREAT team until you stop guys from taking shots that are bad shots for them. As far as Chol's defense, it's easy to teach good athletes how to play defense.

I don’t think that’s a fair assessment because it could only really be directed at Caleb and while he’s not a good shooter, he doesn’t stand out as a player who sought out being high usage on offense. When we couldn’t get the ball in to the desired shooters, he ended up taking the shots because Paul didn’t seem to want the ball late in shot clocks and they were the two ball handlers. Can’t blame the kid for forcing a shot when we can’t find anyone else. That’s what it came down to last year more than anything.

 

[MiloTalon13]

I don’t think that’s a fair assessment because it could only really be directed at Caleb and while he’s not a good shooter, he doesn’t stand out as a player who sought out being high usage on offense. When we couldn’t get the ball in to the desired shooters, he ended up taking the shots because Paul didn’t seem to want the ball late in shot clocks and they were the two ball handlers. Can’t blame the kid for forcing a shot when we can’t find anyone else. That’s what it came down to last year more than anything.

Pike has said multiple times that he runs an "equal opportunity offense"

I'd point to Hyatt and Simpson even more then Caleb, among the regulars, they were #1 and #2 in FGA/40 despite being among the worst efficiency-wise. In other words, minute for minute, they took the most shots but weren't guys who made the most of out those shots.

I'd also agree there was a strange team dynamic offensively where the more efficient players were either reluctant to take more shots (Cam/Paul) or were reliant on teammates to get them more shots (Cliff and to some extent Mag) so that ONE year isn't necessarily all that predictive.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Pike has said multiple times that he runs an "equal opportunity offense"

I'd point to Hyatt and Simpson even more then Caleb, among the regulars, they were #1 and #2 in FGA/40 despite being among the worst efficiency-wise. In other words, minute for minute, they took the most shots but weren't guys who made the most of out those shots.

I'd also agree there was a strange team dynamic offensively where the more efficient players were either reluctant to take more shots (Cam/Paul) or were reliant on teammates to get them more shots (Cliff and to some extent Mag) so that ONE year isn't necessarily all that predictive.

The point that I was responding to was the comment that Pike lets bad decisions slide on offense as a trade off for good defense. Hyatt hasn’t historically played good defense so he doesn’t fit this description - and pike often yanked him anyway for poor shot selection. You may have a point with Simpson, but I don’t think it was so much a defense / offense trade off as it was Pike deciding to take the good with the bad and let Simpson run iso at the end of the season for lack of better options to make things happen to put up points. Early in the season - Simpson was kept on a tight leash for poor decisions with the ball.

 

[Knight Owl]

Looking forward to a lineup of…
Cliff
Chol
Oskar
GG
Noah

The risk is… lights might go out at the RAC.

 

[MiloTalon13]

The point that I was responding to was the comment that Pike lets bad decisions slide on offense as a trade off for good defense. Hyatt hasn’t historically played good defense so he doesn’t fit this description - and pike often yanked him anyway for poor shot selection. You may have a point with Simpson, but I don’t think it was so much a defense / offense trade off as it was Pike deciding to take the good with the bad and let Simpson run iso at the end of the season for lack of better options to make things happen to put up points. Early in the season - Simpson was kept on a tight leash for poor decisions with the ball.

Yes, I see what you're saying, it's a different point, but I think it's related. Holding players accountable for decisions on offense just as much as on defense. The best teams have the best offensive players take more shots than the weaker offensive players. The bigger the difference in offensive efficiency among players, the more important this is.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes, I see what you're saying, it's a different point, but I think it's related. Holding players accountable for decisions on offense just as much as on defense. The best teams have the best offensive players take more shots than the weaker offensive players. The bigger the difference in offensive efficiency among players, the more important this is.

I hear you - but I’m just saying, I’m not sure there are specific examples to point to where Pike isn’t doing this that can’t be otherwise explained (we really had no other option but to let Simpson go iso late last season when Paul fell apart and we lost our ability to score in transition without Mag)

 

[MiloTalon13]

I hear you - but I’m just saying, I’m not sure there are specific examples to point to where Pike isn’t doing this that can’t be otherwise explained (we really had no other option but to let Simpson go iso late last season when Paul fell apart and we lost our ability to score in transition without Mag)

It's an interesting conversation and we don't know what we don't know. Maybe it was just a weird team/season.

Why not run more of the stuff that worked vs Purdue (was Paul more hurt than he let on or just not entirely there mentally)
Why keep running the same stuff that wasn't working? High ball screens top/middle with Cliff and post-ups for Cliff? Why not off-ball screens for Cam or have Cam set ball screens pick/pop?

I'm sure there were reasons but we'll never know. Pike made some major changes, Oskar then Simpson in the starting lineup, so it's not like he wasn't up for changes.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It's an interesting conversation and we don't know what we don't know. Maybe it was just a weird team/season.

Why not run more of the stuff that worked vs Purdue (was Paul more hurt than he let on or just not entirely there mentally)
Why keep running the same stuff that wasn't working? High ball screens top/middle with Cliff and post-ups for Cliff? Why not off-ball screens for Cam or have Cam set ball screens pick/pop?

I'm sure there were reasons but we'll never know. Pike made some major changes, Oskar then Simpson in the starting lineup, so it's not like he wasn't up for changes.

No clue what it was - but something was definitely off with Paul down the stretch.