Can someone explain why no one can shoot?
- Thread starter ScottRU93
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But would NJIT shoot a higher 3PT percentage against 22 BIG opponents than RU would this season? Hopefully not, but I think it would definitely be possible.
O'Hearn's 4-9 (44.4%) from 3 against RU might not necessarily be an outlier, despite his lower 3PT% average from last year.... I know it's very early in the season so things could change significantly, but NJIT's top 3 scorers have shot a combined 23-51 from three in their 3 games so far this season, 45.1%. Prior to the RU game, O'Hearn was 5-10 from three, and his 4-9 from 3 RU game actually brought his season 3PT% down. I suspect that he may shoot better this season than he did last season.
(In contrast, RU's top 3 scorers, excluding Cliff, are 9-33 from three in RU's 3 games this season, 27.2 %.. After Geo, 5-13, 38.5%, and Ron, 3-13, 23.1%, the rest of the team is a combined 2-20.. And RU and NJIT have played the same opponents so far, so any difference in caliber of opponents isn't a factor yet when comparing the 3PT shooting.)
Jaden is 1-2 from 3 PT so far. Hopefully he'll be able to shoot a respectable percentage from 3 in the future, and some of the others will start making much needed 3 PT shots as well, and opponents' defenses will have to respect the 3... Time will tell...
I started to respond and stopped as I thought it was really insulting than stopped and deleted. I do know when she trains dribbling ball control into shots with 2 other older boys and they need to make 10 between them before they move to next dribbling into shot drill she makes 6 or 7 of them. Maybe 3 or 4 makes between the 2 boys and if they are hot maybe 5 between them. Girls have much better fundamentals and are better foul shooters
I don't know about this. I watched some of the NCAA Tournament and there were shooters galore. Eastern Washington had a 6-11 mountain man who was making it rain from 3. Midrange shots are non existent in today's math driven 3 point orgies. There are only a handful of good midrange shooters left. They're all in the NBA. One of the byproducts of Steph Curry's march of destruction through the NBA is that everyone wants to shoot bombs from the logo. Just like everyone wanted to dunk when Jordan was dominating the NBA. There's no shortage of shooters in basketball now.
O'Hearn started off last year 10/19 (.526) across the first 7 games.... then he hit 17 of his next 63 (.270). This year he's hit 9/19 across the first 3 games... so he's definitely taking more. Remains to be seen what his rate ends at.
Best shooter sits on the bench while McConnell hoists bricks. Very simple.
It's not just McConnell, though he's the worst offender. We're a collective .394 from the field, and .274 from the arc. Take out McConnell and Jones, and we're .401 from the field and .286 from the arc.
Shooting percentages are down for everyone so far.
The best shooter and creator of space left and Myles made a lot of easy buckets. Not rocket science. I think the quicker everyone comes to terms with the impact the guys who left has the easier this season will be on everyone mentally.
Ha. Every NBA thread turns into "NBA is boring. The players are too good and make too many shots. It's like watching a 3pt contest".
Now it's "P5 recruits can't shoot"??
The answer is simple:
Best P5 teams recruit the best shooters.
Middle level P5 teams recruit athletes (can't teach size) and hope they can teach them to shoot.
Mid-Majors recruit the shooters who are left that too "small" or lack other elite skills.
Problem is Rutgers doesn't seem to value or prioritize shooting as an offensive philosophy.
See the many "we don't need to shoot 3s" threads.
And one of the few players who looks like an actual shooter is riding the bench. It should be pointed out that Steph Curry wasn't heavily recruited despite being a great shooter in high school.
Oh weird about Myles because all off-season all I read about from posters here was he only made alley oops and was a liability on offense.
Both can be true. He was bad for the offense, but his attempts were near the basket and fouled misses didn’t hurt his fg%. Guy was talking raw field goal percentage numbers and surely the above is a big part of it.
Oh ok. You read this board. There were multiple posters who though Myles transferring was the addition by subtraction this season. It’s a message board and last night was super annoying but I think a lot of people need to watch the season play out.
Looking at FG% year-over-year so far for returning players:
Baker: .409 last year, .442 this year
Harper: .441 last year, .423 this year
Omoruyi: .632 last year, .602 this year
Mulcahy: .479 last year, .257 this year
McConnell: .317 last year, .200 this year
Hyatt: .447 last year, .361 this year
Agee: .569 last year, .250 this year
The only player who's shooting better overall is Baker, though Harper/Omoruyi are relatively close.
And the strength of opponents for the last-year shooting percentages was way higher than what we've seen so far this year, even for Agee coming from SJSU.
And for those looking at our departed players:
Mathis: .383 last year, .500 this year
Young: .469 last year, .424 this year
Johnson: .628 last year, .556 this year
Doucoure: .500 last year, .333 this year
Baker: .409 last year, .442 this year
Harper: .441 last year, .423 this year
Omoruyi: .632 last year, .602 this year
Mulcahy: .479 last year, .257 this year
McConnell: .317 last year, .200 this year
Hyatt: .447 last year, .361 this year
Agee: .569 last year, .250 this year
The only player who's shooting better overall is Baker, though Harper/Omoruyi are relatively close.
And the strength of opponents for the last-year shooting percentages was way higher than what we've seen so far this year, even for Agee coming from SJSU.
And for those looking at our departed players:
Mathis: .383 last year, .500 this year
Young: .469 last year, .424 this year
Johnson: .628 last year, .556 this year
Doucoure: .500 last year, .333 this year
I think there’s a lot of truth under a different coach albeit so moot point that we are better with Cliff starting than Myles but would be great to have Myles off bench which he wouldn’t do here anyway so moot again.
you have to add in the energy they put in on defense... they do work hard on D... makes it harder to put energy into offense.. we'll figure out how THE GUYS WE HAVE can be put in position to win... we shall see if they figure it out in time to make the dance.. or at all.
Offense sells tickets; defense wins championships.
Coaches with this philosophy would rather lose games early in the season to get their point across than compromise the culture and values of the program.
Pike is from this school of thought and this discipline typically pays dividends as the season progresses.
I trust Pike to figure out the right mix. He’s the best coach we’ve had since I’ve been following the program (Wenzel era) and it’s not really close.
Coaches with this philosophy would rather lose games early in the season to get their point across than compromise the culture and values of the program.
Pike is from this school of thought and this discipline typically pays dividends as the season progresses.
I trust Pike to figure out the right mix. He’s the best coach we’ve had since I’ve been following the program (Wenzel era) and it’s not really close.
some of you invent irrational explanations and excuses.
GoodOl...opposing teams play defense too. and three of our starters either dont bother (NIL) or are physically deficient (quickness, conditioning) in that regard(RH and PM).
But Beasts ‘Kool Aid’ thinking even tops that. ‘School of thought’ and ‘rather lose early games philosophy’ and ‘culture and values’ is nonsense. He isnt preferring to lose early games as experiments. do tell, what point is he trying to get across? where do our ‘culture and values’ rank among other programs ? see how silly that sounds ?
Give Coach K Craig Littlepage’s roster and vice versa and Littlepage’s team would win easily.
I think Pike is a good coach. And so are all of the opposing coaches. They got hired following prior success just like he did. What it all comes down to is recruiting and whether our team can outscore the other team. So please stop with the lame philosophy and team values analysis.
GoodOl...opposing teams play defense too. and three of our starters either dont bother (NIL) or are physically deficient (quickness, conditioning) in that regard(RH and PM).
But Beasts ‘Kool Aid’ thinking even tops that. ‘School of thought’ and ‘rather lose early games philosophy’ and ‘culture and values’ is nonsense. He isnt preferring to lose early games as experiments. do tell, what point is he trying to get across? where do our ‘culture and values’ rank among other programs ? see how silly that sounds ?
Give Coach K Craig Littlepage’s roster and vice versa and Littlepage’s team would win easily.
I think Pike is a good coach. And so are all of the opposing coaches. They got hired following prior success just like he did. What it all comes down to is recruiting and whether our team can outscore the other team. So please stop with the lame philosophy and team values analysis.
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And updated look at FG% year-over-year so far for returning players:
Baker: .409 last year, .400 this year (down .009)
Omoruyi: .632 last year, .622 this year (down .010)
Harper: .441 last year, .394 this year (down .047)
Hyatt: .447 last year, .349 this year (down .098)
McConnell: .317 last year, .167 this year (down .150)
Mulcahy: .479 last year, .286 this year (down .193)
Agee: .569 last year, .250 this year (down .319)
Officially, every player who had at least 20 attempts last year is shooting worse this year. Only Baker/Omoruyi are still fairly close.
And the strength of opponents for the last-year shooting percentages was way higher than what we've seen so far this year, even for Agee coming from SJSU.
And for those looking at our departed players:
Mathis: .383 last year, .542 this year
Young: .469 last year, .419 this year
Johnson: .628 last year, .600 this year
Baker: .409 last year, .400 this year (down .009)
Omoruyi: .632 last year, .622 this year (down .010)
Harper: .441 last year, .394 this year (down .047)
Hyatt: .447 last year, .349 this year (down .098)
McConnell: .317 last year, .167 this year (down .150)
Mulcahy: .479 last year, .286 this year (down .193)
Agee: .569 last year, .250 this year (down .319)
Officially, every player who had at least 20 attempts last year is shooting worse this year. Only Baker/Omoruyi are still fairly close.
And the strength of opponents for the last-year shooting percentages was way higher than what we've seen so far this year, even for Agee coming from SJSU.
And for those looking at our departed players:
Mathis: .383 last year, .542 this year
Young: .469 last year, .419 this year
Johnson: .628 last year, .600 this year
This is a function of poor recruiting. SP has only recruited a tiny handful of blue chip players (and the two recruits coming in next year are way below the blue chip level with neither holding a single P6 offer). That is not going to get it done. We are now back to square one and as we have seen in both BBall and FB, a coach who lacks a history as an effective recruiter doesn't all of a sudden become one. SP did a very nice job developing Baker, Harper and Myles Johnson, but you need more than just skills as a developer of talent, you need to bring in top talent from HS to compete in a conf like the Big10. Especially since SP 's roster contains a number of recruits who will never (or at least should never) see the floor as a BIG10 player. it's now all coming to roost.
As an aggregate of team shooting, that makes perfect sense. But losing Young and Johnson shouldn't have caused McConnell's FG% to drop from .317 to .167 or Mulcahy's to drop from .479 to .286
Every individual player is shooting more poorly this year than last - which makes it feel systemic. It's not just the loss of a player or two, it's players trying to be something they weren't last year. Either trying new mechanics, playing new roles on the floor, forcing more shots in situations they wouldn't have shot last year, a change in philosophy or culture.... something is going on that's impacting everyone individually, not just the overall team FG% change you'd expect from changing personnel.
The problem with basketball is that you have to be relaxed and shoot with confidence for the ball to go in.
McConnell got off to such a bad shooting start that he is doing neither. Instead he feels intense pressure every time he shoots. If the other team leaves him wide open, that only increases the pressure he feels.
If he makes a few shots in a row at some point, that will help immensely. Unfortunately he may bury himself on the bench before that happens.
The bad 3-point shooting is doing the same thing to the whole team. Each guy feels immense pressure to be the guy that breaks them out of the slump every time he finds himself wide open beyond the 3-point stripe. So we see brick after brick - which only increase the pressure.
We sent a freshman out there last night with a great shooting reputation before this game. He ended up bricking 3's just like everybody else.
I watched Geo in shoot-arounds before the game, and he made every single 3 while I was watching. The game started, and he was erratic at best. And he had open shots.
Not sure how you coach your players out of that pressure. This is apparently one of Pike's greatest weaknesses - because we have gotten worse over his years here.
If we were shooting 25% from 3, everyone would be happy as a clam with our season.
McConnell got off to such a bad shooting start that he is doing neither. Instead he feels intense pressure every time he shoots. If the other team leaves him wide open, that only increases the pressure he feels.
If he makes a few shots in a row at some point, that will help immensely. Unfortunately he may bury himself on the bench before that happens.
The bad 3-point shooting is doing the same thing to the whole team. Each guy feels immense pressure to be the guy that breaks them out of the slump every time he finds himself wide open beyond the 3-point stripe. So we see brick after brick - which only increase the pressure.
We sent a freshman out there last night with a great shooting reputation before this game. He ended up bricking 3's just like everybody else.
I watched Geo in shoot-arounds before the game, and he made every single 3 while I was watching. The game started, and he was erratic at best. And he had open shots.
Not sure how you coach your players out of that pressure. This is apparently one of Pike's greatest weaknesses - because we have gotten worse over his years here.
If we were shooting 25% from 3, everyone would be happy as a clam with our season.
Do you find that girls rely less on dribble-drive than boys do? Maybe boys are more inclined to rely on driving to the hoop and doing lay-ups, while girls more often pull up and shoot?
The girls game is totally different. Girls shoot from the chest…it’s closer to a set shot than a jump shot. Defenders are not athletic so don’t need to shoot from the peak of jump. The game is played at a slower pace and often players a absolutely wide open (not that our players don’t miss a ton of wide open shots).
My son is a hs player and he hits 75% from three without pressure. Put pressure and he’s much lower. A girl should not be shooting at a higher percentage without pressure (ie practicing with dr dish).
He does. And he has a totally wierd push up and wrist release. Unconventional can work, but Ron's shot is inconsistent and not working. Pike needs to hire Dave Love or something to get these guys right.
Agree with this.
This was sometimes a double edge sword with these two and they would be out of control in some games - but they were usually the sparks that ignited the rest of the team in games where we really needed it.
That’s been one of my biggest observations this season - we haven’t had anyone that has shown the willingness or ability to play fearless, get some stops/steals and get us a few straight baskets to get us going.
I don't think the current team is afraid to shoot.... they're just not making them. Last year, we averaged 59.0 FGA per game (39.3 2PA, 19.7 3PA) and 16.0 FTA per game. So far this year, we're averaging 61.0 FGA per game (41.2 2PA, 19.8 3PA) and 19.4 FTA per game.
They're shooting the same number of threes, a couple more twos, and a handful more FTs per game.... they've just been much worse at converting those attempts into points (69.3 ppg last year, 63.4 ppg this year).
They're shooting the same number of threes, a couple more twos, and a handful more FTs per game.... they've just been much worse at converting those attempts into points (69.3 ppg last year, 63.4 ppg this year).
They are stiff. Not afraid to shoot, but afraid they will miss. You cannot compete well if you are not sure of yourself. They don’t play a brand of basketball that scores at a high rate (no fast break points, no easy cuts to the hoop), but it’s compounded by the fact that the entire team is not confident and this cannot shoot freely. Need a shrink at this stage.
Ok it’s not really that they’ve been afraid to shoot - they’ve been afraid to make plays in their own, drive to the hoop, get fouled etc.
Young and Mathis sought out opportunities like that, which usually jump started our team when we needed it.
Baker is higher because he probably has taken less shots.In the first half of Lafayette Baker had 3 points and was not looking to take a shot.
Agree with both of these points.
I think we're trying to move guys around to different roles they aren't accustomed to, and it hasn't been working out. They aren't quite sure of their role in the offense and are afraid of failure, and discomfort is leading to lack of confidence.
Baker does better as a ball dominant guard than he does playing off the ball, and Mulcahy does better as a secondary distributor forward than he does as a point guard. McConnell is more of a skinny PF style scrapper, and should be fighting for scraps around the basket instead of handling the ball outside the arc. Harper is better as a SF than a PF, while Hyatt feels like more of a stretch PF than a SF. The game hasn't slowed down for Jones yet, but it feels like he should be running around trying to keep his defender moving and trying to scrape him off on every screen to get a catch-and-shoot opportunity. I have no idea what Agee should be doing, and I don't know if he does either.
You were responding to the numbers for just the first 4 games.... after Lafayette his percentage dropped. I updated the numbers in a later post.
Terrible title for the thread
We have shown that we can shoot.
We have not shown we can make it.
We have shown that we can shoot.
We have not shown we can make it.
