Carino Article with Cliff Quotes

[Mholinko]

Thankfully we have you around to make sure that the fans don’t take pride in their school. Talk about lacking introspection…

I am proud of my Alma mater but even the most loyal fan is allowed to raise questions about whether the school is headed in the right direction or the program I have season tickets too

If you’re gonna question mine or my families loyalty to the school check yourself… 4th generation alum

 

[bitnez]

I am proud of my Alma mater but even the most loyal fan is allowed to raise questions about whether the school is headed in the right direction or the program I have season tickets too

If you’re gonna question mine or my families loyalty to the school check yourself… 4th generation alum

Encouraging fans to question the direction of the school is very different than chastising fans and making fun of them for having pride. And I didn’t mention your family, but it’s nice to see you have pride in them. You should.

 

[The RUT]

This whole discussion is irrelevant now anyway. If your goal is to develop players, all you are doing is developing them for another program. Get the developed players, don’t develop them for someone else.

I see no issue with this honestly.

We’ve already determined that we’re poor and our fan base has tight wallets.

Why not accept reality and develop a reputation that gives you an edge in this new world.

Being known as the program that can get you a fat paycheck from a team ready to win a natty is a good reputation to have.

 

[rubs]

He could have offered up something positive to RU, like "I had a good experience at RU" and then went into his comments, as he was treated well and got more playing time than he would at a lot of other schools. The reality though is these quotes don't matter much, money is everything now. Good players will come to RU if there is a pile of cash.

Would they really. All things being equal I think Rutgers beats no one. Our history, mediocre coaching won’t attract anyone. The true indictment was this year where two lottery picks couldn’t produce. Pike has not proven anything. This also will be a recruiting tool against RU. “Why go to Rutgers they can’t win anything ?”

 

[RUbacker]

Doesn’t the daily competition come from an ingrained culture, and the type of an ingrained culture that exists within a team also comes from its coach??? Thus, if Rutgers did not exhibit daily competition it was not something that was part of the culture created by its coach (Pike).

yep

 

[RUbacker]

Would they really. All things being equal I think Rutgers beats no one. Our history, mediocre coaching won’t attract anyone. The true indictment was this year where two lottery picks couldn’t produce. Pike has not proven anything. This also will be a recruiting tool against RU. “Why go to Rutgers they can’t win anything ?”

unfortunately a big downturn in basketball may be coming. with those two superstars here we needed to bet the house and pony up all that we could. instead we did very little to take advantage of what was a once in a lifetime situation here at rutgers.

 

[soundcrib]

Maybe we should start taking these comments more seriously and ask what is happening at places like Oregon, Alabama, UConn, etc. that's not happening here.

I've wondered this for over 40 years.

This.

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Wow Cliff. Well I agree with you about the coaching staff, that was totally unclassy esp as we cheered huiu on for four years. You are now persona non grata at Rutgers. Best wishes not playing in fhe NBA.

For saying a tenth of what you do? Do you not understand it's why we don't want you here either? Do you have one shred of self-awareness?

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

I’m more interested to hear the comments of whoever got robbed for that $1MM seeing the guy he purchased sitting on the bench because he can’t play at that level.

I bet he has some interesting thoughts.

The more of that the better. I'd love to see the ROI on these power conference portal players. Bottom is going to fall out of this soon. Acuff 400k for 5ppg. Why would I continue to donate to NIL?

 

[ImBadRU]

$400,000?

 

[RUChow]

These guys are giving player speak just like coaches have coach speak … you glow about wherever you are at that moment

My takeaway is this is not the first time a high profile player has said something like this

True, but I think its been said or inferred multiple times by RU players.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

The more of that the better. I'd love to see the ROI on these power conference portal players. Bottom is going to fall out of this soon. Acuff 400k for 5ppg. Why would I continue to donate to NIL?

What a waste. Given these outrageous sums for nothing, it's true, no inclination to give any more for these shenanigans until the system is overhauled. I don't care about college basketball enough to make it a priority that scrubs get a $500k paycheck for poor performance and a few months work.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I didn't see this thread but what is ironic is that

A) Fans (supposed fans, I should say) are very upset at the players who are leaving for other places, because they're getting paid more money.....and in some cases, call out the players for the lack of loyalty and how they're turning their backs on the coaches and fans who support the player.....

BUT

B) The same fans who somehow hate these players for so little loyalty, suddenly want to cling onto any potential comment about the program they're leaving......as if you now want to listen to what they have to say???

There's 2000 kids in the portal......are you as fans dumb enough to listen to these 2000 kids about how screwed up each of these programs are, or the coaches that tried to get the most out of, sometimes limited skill sets and players??

There are players who have completely dissed and showed no respect for legitimate coaches like Nick Saban, Bill Belicheck, Andy Reid, Pat Riley, Steve Kerr, Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Roy Williams, Coach K, Bill Self, Tom Izzo, and any other championship level coach in plenty of sports........do fans actually believe the disgruntled employee, who isn't worth it, or is just afraid to admit, they are NOT as good as they believe they are??? I mean, it's NEVER the players fault that they're not NBA caliber, it's gotta be the coaches fault.....thats today's culture and dumb fans suddenly fall for it.

If Pike actually said the truth out loud like "Look, RU is actually a loud fanbase with alligator arms.....they're delusional in thinking they don't have to contribute and expect to win"....."On top of that, the fanbase really has no clue about basketball, i mean how many winning seasons did they have before I arrived here??? I think they had 13 straight losing seasons in a row and hadn't made the NCAAs before cell phones were invented"......!!!

Pike could say all of that and would YOU, the "delusional" RU fans be offended.....??

Sometimes the truth cuts both ways, my friends......

 

[cm_13]

He could have offered up something positive to RU, like "I had a good experience at RU" and then went into his comments, as he was treated well and got more playing time than he would at a lot of other schools. The reality though is these quotes don't matter much, money is everything now. Good players will come to RU if there is a pile of cash.

He just finished his last college game ever where he and Alabama came up one game shy of going to the Final Four. Why on earth would he be talking about Rutgers in that moment?

 

[KK1827]

His quote was a thinly veiled shot at Rutgers program. He could have easily phrased differently but IMO his true feelings came out

This is becoming a common theme of players leaving RU recently. Cam spencer and eugene omoyuri said similar quotes

 

[darkcheck]

That’s crazy. A number of guys got much better as they graduated or moved on. Geo, Ron Harper, Caleb and even EO.

That’s 3. How many didn’t improved, or never were good at all despite Pike recruiting and hyping them up? Far far greater than 3. EO improved from a juco center to a slightly better juco center???

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

That’s 3. How many didn’t improved, or never were good at all despite Pike recruiting and hyping them up? Far far greater than 3. EO improved from a juco center to a slightly better juco center???

He made JY significantly better. And JY looked worse when he left our system. MJ came in and needed a redshirt. He was developed into a successful 5 at Rutgers.

 

[darkcheck]

We lost Paul and Cam at the last minute in his final year at RU. It did not work, but in that year, who else were we going to run the offense through?

Run what offense?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Interview him in May a month removed from the season.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Interview him in May a month removed from the season.

If he gets his type of players I’m ready to listen. If it seems like we’re handing out 400K a pop for kids like Acuff to come to us from historically poor defensive programs to see if they can come close to dropping the same 18 ppg at RU count me out. I’m not interested in seeing how a collection of MAAC and NEC scoring leaders from teams that don’t defend mesh together. I already know what the outcome will be.

 

[darkcheck]

Cliff was being honest. He took a chance on RU. He watched the roster slowly rot around him. The team got progressively worse. He was aware of what players like Eugene and Cam observed on both sides. We didn’t have any offensive plan. We didn’t have a big man coach to develop him. He kind of made a bad pick and had one year to see what a real higher level program looks like. Why wouldn’t he wish he started his freshman year there. I’ve had this argument with many here before. We chose not to learn from this, we get offended and demand props and loyalty. It’s part of the reason we continually suck.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If he gets his type of players I’m ready to listen. If it seems like we’re handing out 400K a pop for kids like Acuff to come to us from historically poor defensive programs to see if they can come close to dropping the same 18 ppg at RU count me out. I’m not interested in seeing how a collection of MAAC and NEC scoring leaders from teams that don’t defend mesh together. I already know what the outcome will be.

Talking about cliff

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Talking about cliff

Ah got it. My bad. The back and forth on all the strings back to blaming Pike for everything and anything has me confused with the string on Pike’s Carino interview.

Yeah - Cliff might sound different speaking of things a few months removed. He didn’t have to talk about 4 years ago though. That had to be directed at Rutgers.

 

[S_Janowski]

Are some people actually suggesting that Cliff made some big strides during his last year at Bama?

He was way more efficient at Bama, which I would attribute to a few reasons…

- Better use of his skills (no posting players up)
- Better supporting cast
- Less minutes

But generally speaking I saw the same Cliff this year that I saw at Rutgers the year prior.

They just used him like he should have been used (and like he could have been used with Dylan/Ace).

I also wonder if Cliff (or his camp) were pushing for the Rutgers staff to give him opportunity to work on his post game…

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Winning is fun. Losing isn’t. He looked happy to be winning.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

It’s time for fans to realize

1.) it has taken a large leap of faith to come play basketball here ….given the disaster this program has been prior to Pike

2.) let’s be fair ….players are playing for their limited career and have a right to maximize their value while they have it

3.) let’s be real objective …we have a major donation problem at this school . All facets . Period .

4.) if we had the money to retain our players at market value , do you think cam walks ? Do you think cliff ans mawot leave ? Paul? Jacob? Montez ? Eugene ? Sure sone might …but I bet more stay

There are 1500 plus players that finish the eligibility each year . 2% get first round NBA money. 2% get second round money. Couple more percent hang around rhe NBA as free agents . The other 1300 plus will have limited oppertunity to make significant money post college basketbal and it requires moving out of the country

We need to find ways to retain at market prices that means more donations . Until this happens , it’s gonna be more of the same ……

Fix that …this program changes a lot . And chances to succeed go up …under any coach

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It’s time for fans to realize

1.) it has taken a large leap of faith to come play basketball here ….given the disaster this program has been prior to Pike

2.) let’s be fair ….players are playing for their limited career and have a right to maximize their value while they have it

3.) let’s be real objective …we have a major donation problem at this school . All facets . Period .

4.) if we had the money to retain our players at market value , do you think cam walks ? Do you think cliff ans mawot leave ? Paul? Jacob? Montez ? Eugene ? Sure sone might …but I bet more stay

There are 1500 plus players that finish the eligibility each year . 2% get first round NBA money. 2% get second round money. Couple more percent hang around rhe NBA as free agents . The other 1300 plus will have limited oppertunity to make significant money post college basketbal and it requires moving out of the country

We need to find ways to retain at market prices that means more donations . Until this happens , it’s gonna be more of the same ……

Fix that …this program changes a lot . And chances to succeed go up …under any coach

Mag wasn’t about money - we paid to keep him then he quit on us. Cam and Paul maybe but it was probably more about poor management. Offering Noah F more than them was a bad move. Cliff was the only one who was simply out of budget.

 

[Caliknight]

Maybe we should start taking these comments more seriously and ask what is happening at places like Oregon, Alabama, UConn, etc. that's not happening here.

I've wondered this for over 40 years.

It’s not hard to figure out. $$$

 

[Caliknight]

That’s 3. How many didn’t improved, or never were good at all despite Pike recruiting and hyping them up? Far far greater than 3. EO improved from a juco center to a slightly better juco center???

Cliff got better. He couldn’t catch when he got Rutgers. He regressed at Alabama and was an afterthought. Waste of $1MM for whatever donor that was

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Mag wasn’t about money - we paid to keep him then he quit on us. Cam and Paul maybe but it was probably more about poor management. Offering Noah F more than them was a bad move. Cliff was the only one who was simply out of budget.

Is that fact?

I just guessed. Logical explanation of a Mag holdout.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Is that fact?

I just guessed. Logical explanation of a Mag holdout.

Nothing is fact other than that he was going to leave before the season and we supposedly convinced him to stay - presumably with more money but the exact details were not published. We know Noah got a deal so that second part is just guess work.

In Mag’s case - it seemed like what happened was he had an injury, tried to come back and saw that he wasn’t 100% in terms of being able to deliver his A game consistently (think J Will this year with shoulder injury). He likely decided that since the team stunk anyway, he’d be better off holding out his body and not risk injuring or putting up sub par stats that would negatively impact his future marketability. Again, that’s technically guessing too but that’s what the podcasts throughout implied there.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It’s not hard to figure out. $$$

I thought it was money at the time, but if we had $400k for Acuff we could’ve found $1M for him. instead of paying Acuff, Jordan, PJ, Martini, etc. Take only one of them instead with funds left over and then pick up some hungry defensive guys like Jalen Miller as a sophomore who would’ve come for 10k. We needed a 10 mpg guard who could spell the minutes at the 1-2 not going to Dylan, Davis and J Will. I’m not saying those guys were great but we paid a premium for mid majors that didn’t necessarily project to be better. This is obvious by the lack of big time competition to land them.

I don’t think that was only money though. Cliff looked miserable throughout 2023-24. We surrounded him with the worst possible collection of guards to showcase his game. No way of knowing for sure, but I think things may have gone differently with him if Paul stayed. We still wouldn’t have had a great team but Cliff would’ve had a better season IMO and might’ve been more open to staying.

 

[wheezer]

I want to read it that way too, but the part about "if I were to do it over" is pretty damning. He didn't have to say that to answer the question...but he did

I agree that the phrase is a partial dig

We have to remember that he also is comparing 4 years of mediocre team basketball and NCAA heartache, failed expectations

Versus a highly winning season and run to the final eight

Its not like Alabama would have had 4 great years if he were there his full career
but he is comparing the one great season they had

 

[APKnight]

Well in Cliff’s defense, lots of people want to make as much money as possible while doing as little as possible (ie. Sitting on the bench).

 

[kupuna133]

I saw it as more of a shot at his former teammates.
HERE everyone competes every day, as opposed to at Rutgers where not everyone did.

This is how I read the comments by Cliff, Cam , Eugene etc... It's less about what the RU program offers from a facilities, nutrition, conference standpoint, and more about competing and accountability. This is something that many of us have witnessed and have pointed out for years. There is very little respect for "program" right now within the program. You can see the disconnect just from body language of players at the game. They know certain people will play just because that person is in uniform versus best option.

 

[RUbacker]

This is how I read the comments by Cliff, Cam , Eugene etc... It's less about what the RU program offers from a facilities, nutrition, conference standpoint, and more about competing and accountability. This is something that many of us have witnessed and have pointed out for years. There is very little respect for "program" right now within the program. You can see the disconnect just from body language of players at the game. They know certain people will play just because that person is in uniform versus best option.

The opposite of football where everyone knows there is accountability to each other and everyone is expected to work very hard . There is a culture there and these things are not in question on the football side .

 

[bethlehemfan]

The opposite of football where everyone knows there is accountability to each other and everyone is expected to work very hard . There is a culture there and these things are not in question on the football side .

Hopefully some day that culture delivers a winning record in conference play.

 

[darkcheck]

Cliff got better. He couldn’t catch when he got Rutgers. He regressed at Alabama and was an afterthought. Waste of $1MM for whatever donor that was

All your opinion. I feel Cliff didn’t get better here, he was the same player in his first formative years here as when he left. I don’t feel he regressed at AL. Again he was the same player. He may feel he chose poorly because the staff here didn’t develop him early and he might feel a staff like at AL would have. Even if I give you Cliff. That’s 4. Still a number that’s much smaller than who stayed the same, got worse or immediately flamed out.

 

[RUbacker]

Hopefully some day that culture delivers a winning record in conference play.

That’s the plan

 

[Caliknight]

All your opinion. I feel Cliff didn’t get better here, he was the same player in his first formative years here as when he left. I don’t feel he regressed at AL. Again he was the same player. He may feel he chose poorly because the staff here didn’t develop him early and he might feel a staff like at AL would have. Even if I give you Cliff. That’s 4. Still a number that’s much smaller than who stayed the same, got worse or immediately flamed out.

Corey Sanders got better under Pike. Grant got better this year. So did Ace. So did Sommerville. So did Ogbole. There are others.