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Clifford Omoruyi

We’ve had plenty of top 50 kids here through the years - Lamizana, T Billett, Jusge, Rosario, Chandler, Mitchell.

I wouldn’t say they were our best players.

The NBA players we’ve had- Douby & N’Dyaiye & Dahntay Jones all were lightly recruited, worked exceedingly hard and improved every single year in similar fashion to Eugene. I’ll take a roster full of those guys. Very easy to root for and also a winning formula. There are no shortcuts to success when building a program.
 
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We’ve had plenty of top 50 kids here through the years - Lamizana, T Billett, Jusge, Rosario, Chandler, Mitchell.

I wouldn’t say they were our best players.

The NBA players we’ve had- Douby & N’Dyaiye & Dahntay Jones all were lightly recruited, worked exceedingly hard and improved every single year in similar fashion to Eugene. I’ll take a roster full of those guys. Very easy to root for and also a winning formula. There are no shortcuts to success when building a program.
Speaking of lamizana....
 
We’ve had plenty of top 50 kids here through the years - Lamizana, T Billett, Jusge, Rosario, Chandler, Mitchell.

I wouldn’t say they were our best players.

The NBA players we’ve had- Douby & N’Dyaiye & Dahntay Jones all were lightly recruited, worked exceedingly hard and improved every single year in similar fashion to Eugene. I’ll take a roster full of those guys. Very easy to root for and also a winning formula. There are no shortcuts to success when building a program.

Jones was not lightly recruited
 
Im only arguing with the people that think we’re on track to make an NIT with a bottom third in conference average star ranking 5 years in a row. I don’t think that’s likely to happen.

247 composite rankings. I’ve mentioned many times that is the source I have been going by which is the best practice standard in recruiting rankings.

You're mixing things up here. If you want to use 247, fine, but use their terminology then, too - calling it the "best practice standard" is a made up thing, but whatever.

The idea of an "average" player ranking in basketball is also not nearly as meaningful as a football, because there are so many fewer scholarships. Classes will frequently have just 1 or 2 players, and a single transfer player is the equivalent of almost 8% of your schollies (like adding 7 transfers in a single year in football).

But, to invalidate your point about those rankings and any correlation to the postseason, look at the 247 average player composites for Iowa's recruiting classes:
2017: 90.53 (10th of 14)
2016: 87.02 (12th of 14) - NIT (2017)
2015: 82.16 (14th of 14) - NCAA (2016)
2014: 85.85 (13th of 14) - NCAA (2015)
2013: 82.85 (12th of 12) - NCAA (2014)
2012: 88.27 (8th of 12) - NIT (2013)
2011: 85.96 (10th of 12) - NIT (2012)
2010: 85.99 (11th of 12)
 
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I guess I’ll spell it out for you, it’s quite simple really:

It’s a local high major big guy with whom we have a decent shot, and these are the types of kids Pike needs to land. It’s not often we have a shot with a top 50-75 big man, so when the opportunity presents itself, we must take advantage.

Never said we should fold up the tent if we miss out on him.


Not sure why posters are giving you a hard time. Pike must land Clifford or someone as highly rated as him or Sojo is right..Rutgers will languish in the bottom third of the league. The 2020 class is very important to whether RU gets over the hump or stalls
 
Not sure why posters are giving you a hard time. Pike must land Clifford or someone as highly rated as him or Sojo is right..Rutgers will languish in the bottom third of the league. The 2020 class is very important to whether RU gets over the hump or stalls
True, but the fact that he is "local" is irrelevant. We need talent - wherever we can go to get it. If we become a winning program, more local kids will consider us but I'll sign up for a kid from Upper Darby, Pa, suburb of Boston, or Brooklyn any day of the week if someday we might hang his jersey from the rafters.
 
Not sure why posters are giving you a hard time. Pike must land Clifford or someone as highly rated as him or Sojo is right..Rutgers will languish in the bottom third of the league. The 2020 class is very important to whether RU gets over the hump or stalls

Has anyone seen Omoyuri play more than once??
Is his rating about potential like most bigs??

He's been at multiple games over the last year or so, which is a great sign.

I think fans are equating a 2020 player as immediate impact player....what big man that's not a 1 and done, is an immediate starter....??

All RU needs are players that are more likely to be capable of playing as freshman to replace Thiam and Eugene. I don't see 2020 recruiting as any more or less than Mulcahy Young and what could or should be the last 2019 recruit.

Fans want to decide or makeup items that are way too far ahead of the curve. 2020 recruiting has been underway for a long time and the 2020 recruits are just starting their junior year of HS for hoops.

If you get Omoyuri, it would be great, but I don't think there's a magic wand out there for any one class. It will be Myles Johnson, Doucoure (likely) and Omoyuri that would make RUs front court very tough, but there's no way to know this early how good the 2020 class is in general. Probably best to wait a few months to see where a lot of our targets are.....the Champagne twins in Brooklyn are also just getting started and expected to Prep in 2019 for the 2020 class.
 
Not sure why posters are giving you a hard time. Pike must land Clifford or someone as highly rated as him or Sojo is right..Rutgers will languish in the bottom third of the league. The 2020 class is very important to whether RU gets over the hump or stalls

I think Russ was just picking on language.

We need players of Omoruyi's caliber (or better) if we're going to really start making waves in the conference. It's not necessarily that we "must have Omoroyi", but we "must have talented players/bigs"
 
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RU's path to improving is tied to finding complete basketball players first. There's not enough complete players on the roster at all 3 levels to label any one class as important.

I am of the belief that the 2018 class provides players that can rebound defend, score, dribble and become coachable.

I am 1000% certain that those characteristics are in place with Young and Mulcahy.

To be fair and objective, Eugene has been a coachable revelation that nobody could have seen evolving into a complete player. But his 1st 2 seasons, his impact was infectious in taking charges, rebounding and defending at a higher than expected level. His offense was limited to slashes and offensive rebounding.

Thiam is a stationary player that is not yet a complete basketball player at this level of competition. If we are fair, he and Eugene are the building blocks, but it's taken this long for both players halfway through their junior season, when a redshirt season would probably have made sense in a normal situation.

The 2020 kids just need to be a typical level recruit that we have landed in the majority of the recruits targeted and/or signed at RU. The point is we need complete basketball players in 3 or 4 classes in a row before worrying how highly skilled or ranked they are. That could be grad transfer, JUCO, overseas or normal HS 2020 recruit. Not how highly ranked some wildly inaccurate HS rating system is or isn't.

The other key beyond rankings is culture fit and coachability. Most programs improve the roster by being coachable vs relying on talent and flashy plays. I can go up and down some B1G and other Power 5 rosters of highly regarded players in the last 2 or 3 recruiting cycles, who have not bought into to coaching or team concept.

There's a difference between a talented roster and a program being built the right way. Programs built properly can develop and then sustain a level of play, once it's in place....and can absorb a hit or two if a recruit doesn't develop or is a "miss"....

Talented rosters individual players with skill levels that are "me- 1st, team 2nd"....you can have 1 or 2 of those on your rosters but once you get beyond that, you usually underachieve.

The staff has an excellent eye for talent....not only what we have but what targets were on our lists for visits and have started their careers elsewhere. Most have been playing well within their team's concepts. I am pretty confident RU will land enough players to get things done for the short and long term. There's no cutting corners unfortunately, if you want a real program....if you want a one time roster assembled that lucks into an NCAA bid if the stars align and is never to be heard from again, that's an option too....

Stay the course and develop and maintain the same mindset....
 
what big man that's not a 1 and done, is an immediate starter....??

A lot! I don't know where this whole "big men take longer to develop" thing got started. If anybody has a source on it I'd love to see it but I see this stated as fact over and over here and I don't know what the evidence for it is.

Just this year in the Big Ten you have Mike Watkins, Nick Ward, Ethan Happ, Kaleb Wesson, Bruno Fernando, Jordan Murphy, and Luka Garza... Those are all big men who all started as freshmen and are not one and done. And most of them were pretty good as freshmen. Throw in Dererk Pardon if you'd like who was going to redshirt but then played like 18 minutes per game off the bench once the redshirt was burned midway through the year.

Their recruiting ranks were:
122
42
152
75
87
167
118

It is perfectly normal to expect a four-star big man to be productive as a freshman.

EDIT: Also Giorgi Bezhanishvili on Illinois looks decent and has started every game.
 
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A lot! I don't know where this whole "big men take longer to develop" thing got started. If anybody has a source on it I'd love to see it but I see this stated as fact over and over here and I don't know what the evidence for it is.

Just this year in the Big Ten you have Mike Watkins, Nick Ward, Ethan Happ, Kaleb Wesson, Bruno Fernando, Jordan Murphy, and Luka Garza... Those are all big men who all started as freshmen and are not one and done. And most of them were pretty good as freshmen. Throw in Dererk Pardon if you'd like who was going to redshirt but then played like 18 minutes per game off the bench once the redshirt was burned midway through the year.

Their recruiting ranks were:
122
42
152
75
87
167
118

It is perfectly normal to expect a four-star big man to be productive as a freshman.

EDIT: Also Giorgi Bezhanishvili on Illinois looks decent and has started every game.

Don't forget to look at Juwan Morgan, Dererk Pardon, Vik Law, Isaiah Roby, Jon Teske, Keita Bates-Diopp, Moritz Wagner, Trevor Thompson, Nigel Hayes... all of which blossomed as upperclassmen.

Bigs that can start and be significant contributors as freshmen are hugely valuable, but also don't grow on trees. And those that are contributors as freshmen usually have a much higher upside that they reach as upperclassmen.
 
I mean I guess that's true but half the conference has such a player this year. And guys like KBD, Wagner, and Hayes didn't start because there were better players ahead of them, not because they weren't capable.

Obviously some big guys break out later but that's true of guards and wings too.
 
There are some top freshmen around the country who are already NBA ready, and I'm going to ignore them.

Of the rest, usually freshmen come in with some flaws, and those flaws often manifest differently at different positions. Freshman guard inconsistencies usually show up as high rates of turnovers, poor shot selection, and poor defense. Freshman post inconsistencies usually show up as fouls, which force them to the bench.

Dererk Pardon, on a per minute basis, was fairly productive as a freshman... but he averaged a foul every 6.9 min. Moritz Wagner also was fairly productive in his minutes... but averaged a foul every 5.5 min.

Bigs can take a bit more time to develop just because they need to work on body control, positioning, and speed of the game, or they end up on the bench in foul trouble - which further slows their development, since they're now missing time in live games. A freshman guard can have a few quick turnovers or bad shots early in a game and ride it out... a freshman big picks up two quick fouls, and you won't see him until the second half.
 
Don't discount Mulcahy having a major impact on 2020 NJ top recruits and beyond. I see name NJ kids, like Zona and Omoruyi, posting on his IG and his #headbandhighlights stuff.
 
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Some people have a lot of time on their hands.....Anyone want to help me with my school work next semester? Lol
 
A lot! I don't know where this whole "big men take longer to develop" thing got started. If anybody has a source on it I'd love to see it but I see this stated as fact over and over here and I don't know what the evidence for it is.

Just this year in the Big Ten you have Mike Watkins, Nick Ward, Ethan Happ, Kaleb Wesson, Bruno Fernando, Jordan Murphy, and Luka Garza... Those are all big men who all started as freshmen and are not one and done. And most of them were pretty good as freshmen. Throw in Dererk Pardon if you'd like who was going to redshirt but then played like 18 minutes per game off the bench once the redshirt was burned midway through the year.

Their recruiting ranks were:
122
42
152
75
87
167
118

It is perfectly normal to expect a four-star big man to be productive as a freshman.

EDIT: Also Giorgi Bezhanishvili on Illinois looks decent and has started every game.

Ward and Fernando had draft grades and came back to ensure a shot at making sure they got drafted.....Garza had a health issue and surgery as a high 4 or 5 star kid who also submitted his name into the draft.

Probably not the best item to compare Happ, who is a once in a decade type of player who isnt good enough for the draft but a perfect fit for college.

Watkins is or has been a starter at PSU but in and out of trouble off the court.

Murphy is a star at the college level and Wesson is just now starting to hit his stride.

These are kids picked out of a few recruiting classes going back almost 3 or 4 years. I'm quite sure there are more kids that aren't on this list.
 
@BIB pnly one the guys you mentioned that wore the scarlet uniform were top 100--never mind top 50.

@NJHawk-- Whomever told you that about Bruno Fernando at MD for year 2 gave you bad information. I am close to his guardian as well as the the family of the second best player in college {and no #1 is NOT Zion}.

Bruno went back for S&C and to be sure he was a lottery pick.
Given how weak this year's college talent is; I think he made the right call.
 
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@BIB pnly one the guys you mentioned that wore the scarlet uniform were top 100--never mind top 50.

@NJHawk-- Whomever told you that about Bruno Fernando at MD for year 2 gave you bad information. I am close to his guardian as well as the the family of the second best player in college {and no #1 is NOT Zion}.

Bruno went back for S&C and to be sure he was a lottery pick.
Given how weak this year's college talent is; I think he made the right call.
First thing you said is incorrect:



 
Guess you missed the recruiting stories of him going to Stanford and meeting Chelsea Clinton & such. He was a stud.

I remember his recruitment well. Stanford was known for recruiting sleepers and real student athletes in those days so their interest was as much regarded as related to his academic profile. They had done quite well with Brevin Knight from SHP .
Jones was very much considered a kid with ton of potential and considered a coup — but definitely didn’t have the hoopla coming out of Steinert that comes along with many of the northern NJ private/AAU kids who are high-major recruits and considered “sure things”.
 
Just this year in the Big Ten you have Mike Watkins, Nick Ward, Ethan Happ, Kaleb Wesson, Bruno Fernando, Jordan Murphy, and Luka Garza... Those are all big men who all started as freshmen and are not one and done. And most of them were pretty good as freshmen. Throw in Dererk Pardon if you'd like who was going to redshirt but then played like 18 minutes per game off the bench once the redshirt was burned midway through the year.

Ethan Happ and Mike Watkins redshirted their freshman season.

Most big men IMHO take a lot longer to be impact players at the college level than guards. Mo Wagner and Jon Teske barely played as freshmen at Michigan. Wisconsin redshirted Ethan Happ and had Frank Kaminsky play very sparingly as a freshman and last year had Nate Reuvers play a little.

In HS and AAU, guards have the ball in their hands a lot. Big men get ranked highly by being big and dunking on people, neither of which are nearly as useful in college as they are in HS. Developing post moves and footwork and learning how to not get the ball ripped from them every time they dribble takes a lot of work as well as learning how to defend without fouling all the time.
 
no that he is wrong that he is not his brother, or he is right that he is not
his brother?
Clifford Omoruyi is not Eugene's brother.

That should probably be the title of a thread and pinned to the top of this board. For reference purposes of course since that question is probably going to be asked several more times between now and when the kid picks a school.
 
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I am going to try to see Cliff play tomorrow night when Linden visits Roselle Catholic.
 
If we get him, we'd have two guys with the same last name and no blood relation.

We would have had this in 2017-18 if Nigel Johnson hadn't transferred before Myles Johnson arrived.

We had two Mitchells in 2010-11 (Jonathan/Frank), but that's the only time in the last 30 years that I can find.
 
If we get him, we'd have two guys with the same last name and no blood relation.

We would have had this in 2017-18 if Nigel Johnson hadn't transferred before Myles Johnson arrived.

We had two Mitchells in 2010-11 (Jonathan/Frank), but that's the only time in the last 30 years that I can find.

We wouldn't have them at the same time. Clifford is class of 2020, so he'd be a senior in HS while Eugene would be a senior here.
 
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We won't have them at the same time. Clifford is class of 2020, so he'd be a senior in HS while Eugene would be a senior here.

D'oh.... for some reason had Clifford as 2019 in my head.

So the last time we had an outgoing player replaced by an incoming with the same name was Nigel/Myles Johnson.
 
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