Agree it's a dumb play, but many keepers do this and it never gets called - honestly, I think it's the kind of thing that should get a warning first, as it really doesn't affect the game and the consequence is very harsh.
CONCACAF Gold Cup starts tonight
- Thread starter Kbee3
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It's true that it sometimes happens and is either missed or not called.
But it's kind of hard to warn about it at the professional or international level because, once it happens, it's a clear violation (similar to the ball completely crossing the touchline or goal line). Should players be warned about having been out of bounds? Should they be given a warning for a hand-ball? In the laws of the game, this is a handling violation - a hand-ball outside the box by the keeper.
It can be correct to warn about fouls before issuing a card. The foul is still called and penalized. But the ref has leeway to determine the severity and circumstances of the foul and let a player know when they are close to the threshold. Same thing with taking too long to put the ball in play, or taking dives. All subjective things where the ref has leeway.
But the boundaries of the field, including the penalty area, are not subjective and there's no leeway built into the laws of the game. The ball is in or out. The ball is in the penalty area or not. The ball is handled or not.
I get what you're saying, but if they were that black and white about the boundaries of the field, they'd be calling infractions on keepers on half of the PKs ever taken, as keepers very often leave their line early, but refs rarely call it. And that's a situation where the keeper is gaining a large advantage by moving off the line, as opposed to what Guzan did, where there really was no advantage in releasing the ball 6" past the line.
Jamaica has 9 British Born players on their roster. It's only been one lost, so just relax. JK is still a good coach
If you are going to call an arm over the 18 yard line box on a keeper then you have to call it the other way if a keeper is holding a ball too long. i did a bit of reffing in my day and if a kid ran in front of a ball on a set piece that is a card for a delay of game. He /she has no right to do that and they should call it in more games keep the flow going and would result in better play. I think there has to be some type of enforcement for players that hit the ground and cry and hold their leg arm etc Maybe some type of mandatory 2 min off the field. that will stop some of the BS filed diving.
I know soccer purists would hate it, but I've always thought soccer really needs a penalty box, like hockey. Sending a guy off for a red card or giving a penalty shot for a foul in the box, which really wasn't a good scoring opportunity are just too harsh for a game with so few goals. Soccer needs something less than a red card or a PK, but more than a simple free kick - 10 minutes in the box.
The 6 second rule was famously called in a 2011 WWC match between Canada and USA. Canada had a one goal lead and was trying to kill the game. Each time their keeper handled the ball, Abby Wambach stood near the ref and counted off the seconds. Finally the ref made the call and the US scored to force OT, and eventually won (I think in PKs). Since then Canada women's soccer has had a bitter one-way rivalry with the US. They hate us, but we really don't care about them.
I remember that now that you mention it. LOL Gotta love Wambach's approach.
Many years back, I was doing a training session on defending w/the offside trap. This was with a relatively young, but unusually clued-in travel soccer team that was playing a flat-four in the back already. One of the players astutely pointed out that refs (the often crappy travel soccer refs) often fail to recognize the offside violation unless it's super obvious.
So I told them that, when they stepped up just before the pass was made, all four of them should all raise their arms to signal offside while doing it - just to give the ref or AR every chance to recognize the situation. And of course, taught them to instantly recover just after the pass was made just in case.
The moral being that, as Wambaugh demonstrated, it can be useful to "help" the ref out sometimes, as long as it's done mostly respectfully.
Good to meet you as well RUtrumpet.
Without a doubt, the wildest sporting event I've been to.
Questionable call on Guzan
US missing tons of chances
US reverting to useless long balls
Horrible red card to Panama in the first half
Horrible call leading to a PK and a near riot with the Panama and Mexico players going after each other while being pelted with trash.
Another (valid) PK call in extra time
The Panama keeper booting 3 different balls into the stands
The Panama players going after the ref after the game
Feeble Dome security
Slowest concession lines ever.
As a ref, I ignore the raised hands as just trying to beg for a call. 99% of the time they're wrong and the occasional time they're right, I'm making the call anyway. At the travel level, I see it as another way they're trying to imitate the professionals on television pulling the same BS, angling for a call where they've been beaten and are praying for a call to save their bacon. They get no sympathy from me and I'm more inclined to NOT give them the benefit if the doubt. Keep the hands down, do your job as players to play, I'll do mine as a ref.
You're missing the point almost entirely. Nobody was begging for anything.
We are not talking about players who've been beat raising their hands to try to fake the ref out. We're talking about a proactive attempt to draw the refs attention during the critical one second the trap is sprung. We weren't looking to influence a bad call. We were looking to ensure that the ref was aware and alert to the trap so that the ref could make the correct call.
I would also tell the ref(s) prior to the game that we were going to use offside traps during the game so they'd be prepared. Again, this was at a young age (about U11 or so) and the refs didn't often see anybody employ an offside trap at that age. I suppose you'd be offended by that too.
You seem to be implying that if you encountered a situation in which a back four raise their hands in unison as they step forward in order to trap an attacking players offside, that you would refuse to make the correct offside call because you are offended that the players raised their hands. If that's the case, then you ought to surrender your ref license.
Lucky for us, the refs we encountered were able to overlook the great insult of having raised hands and made the correct calls. So our approach worked very well. We were able to play a much higher defensive line and frustrate fast attacking teams.
Torn between watching the US-Panama 3rd place game going on on FS2 or the ManU-Barca game which is on Fox right now. Switching (hate picture in picture) back and forth.
1-1 after 90 - OT. Panama could be up 4-1 if they had better strikers - they've consistently been beating our back line to the ball, both on long passes and in the air. Guzan has made a bunch of good saves and one spectacular save on a header late in the match to keep us in the game. US looks lethargic - maybe the hangover from not making the finals.
ManU beat Barcelona 3-1 - slight surprise.
ManU beat Barcelona 3-1 - slight surprise.
Jamaica looking good in the first 10 minutes, dominating play and should have had a goal if the Jamaican guy didn't whiff on a perfect pass along the ground from the wing. Also, just missed a goal on a header, as the Jamaican guy was a split second late. Go Jamaica!
Not watching.
Mexico will end up winning on a bogus penalty shot at the last minute.....you just know it.
30 minutes in now and Mexico has been dominating the last 15 minutes, with multiple very good scoring opportunities. Jamaica is reeling.
And 30 seconds after I post this, Guardado scores on gorgeous volley from about 12 yards out off of a beautiful cross. 1-0 Mexico.
Beautiful goal by Mexico. But they should absolutely be playing a man down from earlier on when the Mexican player pulled the Jamaican guy down (already having a yellow card on him).
And as I type ref potentially saves Jamaican player from getting 2nd card.
I don't see how you can not give cards out based whether it means sending someone off.
I think this game is just going to get even more physical moving fwd.
And as I type ref potentially saves Jamaican player from getting 2nd card.
I don't see how you can not give cards out based whether it means sending someone off.
I think this game is just going to get even more physical moving fwd.
Mexico now up 3-0 and cruising. Both 2nd half goals were the result of Jamaican mistakes by the defense, including a really egregious mistake on the 3rd goal. No question Mexico is the better team tonight.
No sir, I would not refuse to call something I saw, just because. But I do see it as a cheap trick, which, although I admire the work you put into it, is still designed as "insurance" in case the linesman isn't being as attentive as you'd like them to be. The idea is the the players should play, the coaches should coach and the referee should do their job--without anybody trying to do somebody else's job as well.
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