Ferren mall?
- Thread starter rumikenike
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It was switched to the J&J Arena?:pray:
Thanks for the link. looks promising. Anyone know an eta on finishing the cleanup and starting construction?
j&j arena.... A man can dream.
j&j arena.... A man can dream.
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How do they do it for other metro-based, downtown arenas?
The "JayJay" wouldn't be (or need to be) that big. Parking could be an issue but shouldn't be the reason something like this shouldn't happen.
Rutgersfest in New Brunswick was cancelled because the police forces were overwhelmed with the 100s of people roaming New Brunswick drunk and rowdy. I remember being on river road in Piscataway and seeing rt. 18 and the on/off ramps to George st. Clogged with non moving vehicles. a downtown arena would need a lot of transportation investment to handle the projected crowds and I think that the money would be better spent on the college ave. Initiative
I don't think the Rock is considered a traffic nightmare and it's way further from the highway.
If we want NB to truly be considered a walkable city, which I think it mostly is, we need not be afraid of this kind of thing. People will take the train.
Further, people bus it to the stadium so if the basketball team is good they will do that then too. When I went to the RU-Michigan game, the stadium is very close to downtown Ann Arbor and people parked all over the city.
If the arena were to be on the CTown lot, which has been my proposal, you build garages on the east side of George Street down to the public safety building which double for Douglass use during school hours.
And RU needs to work as is with Pway to get some events and concerts at the stadium for extra revenue, so they should with NB as well.
If we want NB to truly be considered a walkable city, which I think it mostly is, we need not be afraid of this kind of thing. People will take the train.
Further, people bus it to the stadium so if the basketball team is good they will do that then too. When I went to the RU-Michigan game, the stadium is very close to downtown Ann Arbor and people parked all over the city.
If the arena were to be on the CTown lot, which has been my proposal, you build garages on the east side of George Street down to the public safety building which double for Douglass use during school hours.
And RU needs to work as is with Pway to get some events and concerts at the stadium for extra revenue, so they should with NB as well.
yes, people WILL take the train as they did for SuperBowl '14 but it won't be looked on fondly if the transportation can't handle the crowds.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/2/...ass-transit-crowds-metlife-stadium-new-jersey
As it is, school busses that bring in kids for shows at the theater on livingston just park outside the stadium 2 to 3 deep; they have nowhere else to go...
No they won't. There is only one train line into NB. I can take the train from Metchen and Rahway, or from Princeton and Trenton. I can't take the train from Somerville or Plainfield or Morristown or Red Bank or Englishtown or most other towns in Central NJ.
If an Arena os built in Mew Brunswick, 90% of non-student fans will drive. And therefore parking and traffic flow need to be a consideration.
It wouldn't be impossible (well maybe Englishtown - lol) just very, very inconvenient. LOL
And I agree it is an important consideration but not one we're we say, "it can't be done!" because of parking.
I'm thinking the whole area bounded by George, Morris, Tabernacle and Neilson, for the arena itself. Parking would be the area south between George and Abeel. I'm using Google Maps- based on the size of the current RAC, that seems like more than enough space.
Alternatively, you have parking on Livingston or the Sears lot (that Sears will likely not be there by the time anything would get built).
Eventually if the MOM line were to be routed through New Brunswick and with the North Brunswick station, the train would get more popular. But I think plenty of people would take the train, though not a majority. I know plenty of people take it for football, and the stadium isn't very walkable from the train.
Alternatively, you have parking on Livingston or the Sears lot (that Sears will likely not be there by the time anything would get built).
Eventually if the MOM line were to be routed through New Brunswick and with the North Brunswick station, the train would get more popular. But I think plenty of people would take the train, though not a majority. I know plenty of people take it for football, and the stadium isn't very walkable from the train.
I submit that the Sun Bank Arena should have been built for the State University in New Brunswick instead of being a local Improvement Authority boondoggle down in Trenton. Lack of foresight & some serious small-time thinking sinks us yet again.
I would guess no more than 1% of football attendees take the train. But even if it is five times that, that is only 5%. 95% are still driving.
It would be the same with basketball. At least 90 percent will drive.
Exactly. It's New Brunswick, not NYC. All of us suburbanites have cars & will drive them. There aren't enough from Hoboken, Jersey City, NYC or Philly that would regularly go to a MBB game AND take the train. Heck, I always drove my car to New Brunswick when I lived in Hoboken. Why would I want to be inconvenienced waiting for NJT, switching trains or dealing with crowded trains or delays when I had my car? Many would increase there travel time taking NJT. This is NJ & most have cars & will use them to get to a game. To take the train from somewhere like Bridgewater, which is 20-25 mins away by car, is 1:30 to NB. It doesn't make sense. Uber would be 2x-3x the price of NJT.
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A different approach is to locate an arena where the Hyatt is, with Hyatt becoming part of the Ferren Deck project. The site is clearly large enough and the highway access would be much easier to manage with the possibility of direct ramps from Route 18.
The Hyatt site would probably be big enough for the arena, but not for the arena plus parking. So there is still the issue of where to locate parking. Assuming an arena that holds 10,000 people (3000 students, 10 percent travel by train, and 2.5 people per car), you need parking for 2500 cars.
I would hate for something like this to die or not even be considered because of that reason.
There is room right across 18 along the Raritan for some of those cars. Or maybe a lot more depending on how big of a deck you wanted to build.
And for night games there have to be some lots near the courthouse and maybe J&J and even Rutgers that would be available, no?
I'm not saying it shouldn't be considered. I'm saying that the simplistic answers are pretty simplistic. It is a lot more complicated than just assuming "everyone will take the train" or "this space is about the same size as the RAC".
An arena takes up a lot of real estate, and the central business core of New Brunswick (Between Albany and New Streets , from the river to the rail tracks) is pretty small. I personally think that it would be a poor decision to waste that real estate on an arena that might be used for a few hours a night a maximum of 75 nights per year. That real estate needs to be used 365 days per year.
If an arena is built in NB, I think it would be easier to find space on the other side of New Street, or on the other side of the railroad tracks.
The Hyatt is moving?
The arena should be located in area where it will spur growth. The Hyatt is already valuable real estate on a nice block.
Going south of New Street is more cause to "gentrify" that stretch of George between New and Commercial.
If you take that entire square of George/Morris/Tabernacle/Neilson and then go south down the street with garages you will have the space and parking and get people going where they normally don't yet.
The arena should be located in area where it will spur growth. The Hyatt is already valuable real estate on a nice block.
Going south of New Street is more cause to "gentrify" that stretch of George between New and Commercial.
If you take that entire square of George/Morris/Tabernacle/Neilson and then go south down the street with garages you will have the space and parking and get people going where they normally don't yet.
Also, I'm not saying that people aren't going to drive. But building a new arena on Livingston really doesn't do much for the University as a whole. Livingston is nice these days. I'd rather look at an area that's less desirable, like stretch of George south of New or the Sears lot, where RU can have a statement building and show presence where we lack.
Turn the RAC into a practice or wrestling facility.
Turn the RAC into a practice or wrestling facility.
I think Virginia was suggesting that the Hyatt move to open up space for an arena. As far as I know, the Hyatt has no plans to move.
I agree that the area by George/Morris would be a viable location for an arena. You are essentially across the street from Rockoff Hall there, and a block from the Heldrich. This could help extend downtown another couple blocks. Nearby parking could have easy access to Rt 18 via New St or Commercial Ave.
Agree that is not so simple. I do think more non-students will drive than take mass transit. A lot more.
But if something like this were ever to be built it wouldn't be as big as the Garden, Roc or the Brendan Byrne. Not does it need to be. So while the footprint and impact will be bigger than anything NB has ever seen, that footprint doesn't have to be Shaq size.
And those 75 dates are just Rutgers related. You can add quite a few more nights/days if it is a truly multipurpose set up (which I know many hate)...hockey, ice shows, concerts, the circus, Harlem Globetrotters, conventions/trade shows, monster truck, motocross, box lax, arena FB, graduation on bad weather days, etc.
Even without a real tenant, Sun Bank in Trenton seems to have something going on a lot of the time.
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The Rutgers related days are 36 (18 home men's games and 18 home women's games). The 75 days I mentioned are assuming all the additional uses.
Sun Bank in Trenton has 6 days scheduled for March, 2 for April, 5 for May, and 1 for June. Of the next 122 days, they have 14 scheduled and 108 dark. The PEC at Pitt only has 2 events (other than Pitt basketball) scheduled for the next 2 months. Thinking that a small arena in New Brunswick will be used even half the days per year is wishful thinking.
As far as space, the RAC, with a capacity of 8000, sits on a footprint of 300 x 300 feet. The PEC at Pitt, with a capacity of 12,500, sits on a footprint of 400 x 400 feet. And the Prudential Center in Newark, with a capacity of 18,700, sits on a footprint of 500 x 600 feet. That is the footprint of the building itself. You need to add space on each side for setbacks, walkways, and landscaping.
The block at Morris and George, that NIRH mentioned, is approximately 500 x 400 feet. So you could fit an arena with a size between the RAC and PEC. A 10,000 seat arena could fit there, although it might take some creative architecture to get all the amenities you'd want. And of course, you'd need additional parking nearby.
You forgot to add Rutgers hockey (Men and women)...:sunglasses:
Sun Bank is poorly run and is not so nice inside with the same being said for the area around it.
The Pete is actually on Pitt's campus and belongs to them, no? I don't think they feel the need to use it all the time. I guess they would like more things but don't press for it.
I was assuming if this ever happens here we would be the tenant but not the owner. What they do when RU isn't in town is not our problem.
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I have been told this A LOT,but do not know if it is actually true--we were supposed to get a hockey/basketball arena in New Brunswick AND the Somerset Patriots baseball stadium was supposed to be built right next to The RAC. Our good old friend Fred Gruninger said no to both. He thought it would take fans away from Rutgers sports!!!!! Again, I don't know if both are true,but if someone was dumb enough to turn the Big East down TWICE,I wouldn't put it past him. We are still paying for the things he did to RU. Who knows how many millions of dollars were thrown away by him.
The Patriots stadium was originally proposed for Rutgers, but Rutgers wouldn't commit to allowing a private team play there. And there may have been some issues regarding funding and ownership structure --- I think the stadium would have been privately owned on Rutgers land, and Rutgers would have to pay rent for our teams to play there.
I know about the baseball one but are you saying there was an option way back when for a multipurpose facility in the Hub City?
The apartments there were probably a better use of the land and contributed much more to the New Brunswick growth/revitalization than a basketball arena ever would have. I don't see either opportunity as that big of a miss. It's not like we couldn't have done something else for basketball we just chose not to - that's been a mistake but that is a separate issue. The Patriots park is great but if the terms weren't right for Rutgers they weren't right. We shouldn't be leasing arenas or ballparks from someone else.
If it was going to be on RU property I agree with this. But if the arena was going to be in NB, I'd have no problem in "just" being the anchor tenant.
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