Fill me in on Schiano's defense

[gef21]

Attacking cover 2 base defense. He plays a tilt nose quite a bit of the time and will bring heat from the edges using DBs in his nickle/dime packages. Likes to run twists and stunts but usually only a 1 gap exchange. Will overload a side and bring more than can be blocked but will force LBs to cover seam routes. Athletic LBs and a safety who can fill on the run are critical.

I can go into technique stuff but that will be a lot of actual football talk.

 

[SkilletHead2]

You can't be serious. Didn't think I had to spell it out but ok....Rutgers 2001 roster was a high school team. We had kids who chose Rutgers over Stony Brook yet someone is trying to say 80-7 that year was indicative of poor defensive coaching? Come on man. I don't get why some of you can't acknowledge that schiano is actually a good DC. Whatever.

Gary Brackett? Raheem Orr? Shawn Seabrooks? There were some good ballplayers on that team. But why not go to 2010 and having 69 hung on us by Cincy? Or is that somehow not to be counted as well?

Listen, Schiano is a good to very good defensive coach. He is great, imo, at developing his talent. He is great at organization and paying attention to detail. He is not as good in scheming or game day coaching. But with tOSU talent, he may not have to worry about that that much. Especially if he is only there one year.

Where he will hurt us is in recruiting. Anybody who thinks he is no different from any other tOSU recruiter is in fantasy-land. And without the need to run the whole show, he can spend more time on recruiting. At the end of the day, it may only cost a recruit or two, but they will be great recruits. Here's hoping their wish list and ours overlaps as little as possible.

 

[rutgers48]

Gary Brackett? Raheem Orr? Shawn Seabrooks? There were some good ballplayers on that team. But why not go to 2010 and having 69 hung on us by Cincy? Or is that somehow not to be counted as well?

Listen, Schiano is a good to very good defensive coach. He is great, imo, at developing his talent. He is great at organization and paying attention to detail. He is not as good in scheming or game day coaching. But with tOSU talent, he may not have to worry about that that much. Especially if he is only there one year.

Where he will hurt us is in recruiting. Anybody who thinks he is no different from any other tOSU recruiter is in fantasy-land. And without the need to run the whole show, he can spend more time on recruiting. At the end of the day, it may only cost a recruit or two, but they will be great recruits. Here's hoping their wish list and ours overlaps as little as possible.

There were some good ballplayers on the 2001 team? Ok you named three and that was about it. Period. And look, any mediocre team, which is what we mostly were under Schiano absent 2006 is going to get blown out once on a while. It's football. It's how it works. Pointing to random loses does not somehow prove Schiano was a bad DC. But you've admitted he was good so I'm not quite sure what we're arguing about. Loud noises.

 

[nonentity80]

I think people here are remembering Schiano's defense through the fog of nostalgia and are consequently overrating it a bit. I suppose this is what happens after suffering through four years of Flood.

Schiano's defense is OK but far from great. I mean, if it continually failed to deliver any championships or even just good bowl berths in the lowly Big East, I'm not sure how well his defense is gonna fare in the Big 10.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

OSU fans are gonna love Schiano's D. Schiano is gonna love OSU's talent.

OSU's DBs better get used to being out on islands because Schiano is going to blitz early and often.. while also using safeties to make sure it is a bend-don't-break kinda thing.

The general idea is, during an opponents series, to generate that 3rd and very long due to a sack or tfl that stops drives. He wants to sieze the initiative and force opposing OCs out of their comfort zone and into those 3rd and too-long part of their plkaybooks.

Unless GS has changed, what yoiu will find maddening will be 3rd and long where he sends too many. He doubles down on a sack and wants another.. He wants to dictate what the offense can do.. Thing of beauty when it works.

Another thing.. Expect shifts and stunts even against inferior competition where you can play straight up and dominate. GS wants to run his attacking D no matter what.. Again, unless he has changed (or unless Urban reins him in). There is a method to his madness.. He needs his D to execute assignments flawlessly... And that takes a lot of reps... Playing straight up just because yoiu can does not asdvasnce that goal.

Bottom line: he has placed many defensive players in the NFL. His D is fun to play and he should attract top talent.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

There were some good ballplayers on the 2001 team? Ok you named three and that was about it. Period. And look, any mediocre team, which is what we mostly were under Schiano absent 2006 is going to get blown out once on a while. It's football. It's how it works. Pointing to random loses does not somehow prove Schiano was a bad DC. But you've admitted he was good so I'm not quite sure what we're arguing about. Loud noises.

That cinci result is indicative of how Schiano demands his D play. Think of those 2001-2004 games where we got blown out. GS asked his players to execute a demanding D scheme.. even when they did not need to be that aggressive... And agsints those dink and dunk shasrp-executing offenses, it was wrong to use that D.. But GS was playing the long game...it was all training for those games where executing his defense masde the difference... Louisville, used, etc.

So, 2010? Bad offense hurt that D and itrs not like we used the talent to just reload. So it was probably just a case of greast execution by cinci and a defense that was behind the experience/talent curve to execute his D well enough... And a poor co-OC Flood game plan helping opponents score.

 

[VirtualKnight]

OSU fans are gonna love Schiano's D. Schiano is gonna love OSU's talent.

OSU's DBs better get used to being out on islands because Schiano is going to blitz early and often.. while also using safeties to make sure it is a bend-don't-break kinda thing.

The general idea is, during an opponents series, to generate that 3rd and very long due to a sack or tfl that stops drives. He wants to sieze the initiative and force opposing OCs out of their comfort zone and into those 3rd and too-long part of their plkaybooks.

Unless GS has changed, what yoiu will find maddening will be 3rd and long where he sends too many. He doubles down on a sack and wants another.. He wants to dictate what the offense can do.. Thing of beauty when it works.

Another thing.. Expect shifts and stunts even against inferior competition where you can play straight up and dominate. GS wants to run his attacking D no matter what.. Again, unless he has changed (or unless Urban reins him in). There is a method to his madness.. He needs his D to execute assignments flawlessly... And that takes a lot of reps... Playing straight up just because yoiu can does not asdvasnce that goal.

Bottom line: he has placed many defensive players in the NFL. His D is fun to play and he should attract top talent.

GOR, when you have corners like Nate Jones, the McCorty's and Logan Ryan, putting them on an island isn't an issue. tOSU has corners that are quite capable of executing. Schiano's D with tOSU's talent = lights out.

 

[VirtualKnight]

Doesn't he run the Tampa 2 defense. MLB needs to be fast as he will flying 20 yards downfield to cover the TE and Seam routes.

-Disguises blitzes well
-Goes for speed versus size
-Defended the spread well in last season once he got the speed he wanted at the LB position

I never liked his DL slanting consistently with LBs filling the opposite gaps. When he guessed right it was great...when he didn't.....you know the result.

One more...he is never prepared for the backup QB...or is deemed liked we would shit the bed against any team who had a backup QB in.

Schiano doesn't run a Tampa 2 coverage. His safety reads 2 to1, SAM has 3, Mike plays low hole and Will reads 3 to 2 crossing.

 

[Captain Hogleg]

Never said he didn't have very good DBacks, just said that he didn't know how to coach them. They became what they currently are, in spite of Schiano! Not, because of him. And, Belichick....well his son played(sat) the bench here, didn't he?

What an absurd statement. Schiano coached DB's improved every step of the way under him. He is an outstanding DB coach.

 

[Captain Hogleg]

??? Is this sarcastic? Many of his ex players hate him. The entire TB Bucs team turned on him.

That's why the Bucs are perennial losers. Those guys would rather lose than work hard and win. That's why the Patriots win and whiny pussies like the Bucs lose every year.

 

[SkilletHead2]

There were some good ballplayers on the 2001 team? Ok you named three and that was about it. Period. And look, any mediocre team, which is what we mostly were under Schiano absent 2006 is going to get blown out once on a while. It's football. It's how it works. Pointing to random loses does not somehow prove Schiano was a bad DC. But you've admitted he was good so I'm not quite sure what we're arguing about. Loud noises.

I was mostly just ragging on Akron Buckeye guy. But that game was unique in terms of poor defense. WVU went 3-8 that year, only beating U of Ohio, Kent State and us. Outside of our game, they only scored 155 points the whole season.

 

[Blitz8RUCrazy]

There were some good ballplayers on the 2001 team? Ok you named three and that was about it. Period. And look, any mediocre team, which is what we mostly were under Schiano absent 2006 is going to get blown out once on a while. It's football. It's how it works. Pointing to random loses does not somehow prove Schiano was a bad DC. But you've admitted he was good so I'm not quite sure what we're arguing about. Loud noises.

2010 was the year where Eric Legrand was paralyzed after a routine tackle (at the start of October). The ENTIRE defense and special teams refused to tackle properly and shied away from tackling the ball carrier. This resulted in a LOT of yards and points against us (and blowouts) from then on. Also coaches and players stopped really going all in on game prep and instead chose to visit and stay with Eric Legrand in hospital. I would throw 2010's results out the window (they are an outlier). 2011 and 2009 should be what you should use for analyzing Schiano's latter defenses.

 

[NorthNJRUFan]

That's why the Bucs are perennial losers. Those guys would rather lose than work hard and win. That's why the Patriots win and whiny pussies like the Bucs lose every year.

I guess you haven't watched the NFL in the last twenty years to know rosters turn over more in the league than any other sport.

Bart Starr retired by the way.

 

[Knight Shift]

That's why the Bucs are perennial losers. Those guys would rather lose than work hard and win. That's why the Patriots win and whiny pussies like the Bucs lose every year.

The Bucs are 6-6 this year. Are they the same whiny pussies that played for Greg?

 

[LadyRU09]

Schiano's defense knocked out Russell Wilson in a bowl game when he played for NC State. RU came back to win that bowl game because NC State's backups couldn't do anything.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Oh boy, what a thread you started. One of the great pleasures of this board I watching rumors spoken as truth, opinion as fact and a complete lack of knowledge as to why they are not a College head coach and why they are sitting on the couch.
There are two posters qualified to answer your questions. Cuffsbuff and one other poster I shall not name.
Bottom line- he will be a good DC for you. I don't now if it raises you from #10 to 1 but you should enjoy his brand that fast, swarming with a lot of blitzes. As for CB's turning to see the ball. Except for the most elite it is common throughout CFB.
I am most interested in chemistry. I understand Greg and Urben are friends but that can sometimes lead to disaster in business.

 

[50 yd line RR]

AB as you might have noticed nothing splits this board up more than a good Schiano thread.
I don't know how people can see one coach is such contrast,
I am from the pro Schiano camp. Like many here, a victim of long time of putrid Rutgers Football.
Until a young, energetic, hard nosed,workaholic,Greg Schiano, came here and changed that.
It was rough in the beginning. We had very little talent really poor facilities, and no academic support.
He recruited better and better players and convinced the school to upgrade the facilities and implemented one of the best academic support programs in the country.
We started winning.He started getting more and more players in the league.Two first rounders in 2010. We started going to bowl games. He recruited better players.
In addition to that our players academics were the best in the country (for a state school) finishing top ten in the APR since it's inception.You read about our players in the sports pages not in the police blotters.
He was our dc and head coach. He went through a lot of coaches here,Rutgers could not afford to pay what other schools could pay and some went to the pros.
Some of his cons were: He was a micro manager. He had input for everything from the block R to the design of the bands uniforms. He sucked up every available penny from the athletic dept, leaving little for other sports.He did piss a lot of peolple off.
That won't happen At OSU he will just be coaching,not trying to build a program.
One of my favorite Rutgers highlights from the Schiano era can be found on youtube
"It fell apart rutgers louisville 2006" . I would put it up with any highlight reel from any school. Check it out.
One thing no one mentioned here was his special teams. Blocked field goals and blocked punts.Best in the nation,under Schiano.
I think this trade our old coach, for your young coach is going to be a win win for both schools.
If we could only trade our print media we would really be doing good.

 

[APKnight]

Overall good aggressive defense, but over-pursuit sometimes leads to getting burned, in particular by teams with a spread offense and a mobile qb.

 

[Scarlet Craig]

This should be the best place to ask.

What kind of defense does he run? Does he get after the QB? Does he play zone or man?

We get really,really good redruits so he will have a massive amount of talent do you think he can put them in the right spot to succeed?

Fickell does well coaching LB's and Johnson does great coaching Dline, but before Ash our DB's were poorly coached and frankly Ash was the one calling plays on game day so I expect Schiano to take that over.

 

[RUChoppin]

Will be very interesting to see Schiano as a DC.

At RU, he was the HC, though was also DC for several of his years here. While the defensive identity of the team came from him, his focus could never be 100% on the defense. With the ability to once again put all his attention there (and with upgraded talent across the board), I'm really interested to see what he does.

On the flip side, Schiano seemed to view the offense as an extension of the defense. Primarily a run-heavy, clock killing offense that a) kept the other offense off the field so they had fewer chances to score and could run fewer plays, but b) kept his defense off the field so there wouldn't be any fatigue issues late in games. Will be interesting to see his defense in action without the complementing offense in place.

 

[saran]

On the flip side, Schiano seemed to view the offense as an extension of the defense. Primarily a run-heavy, clock killing offense that a) kept the other offense off the field so they had fewer chances to score and could run fewer plays, but b) kept his defense off the field so there wouldn't be any fatigue issues late in games. Will be interesting to see his defense in action without the complementing offense in place.

That was the Miami/Butch Davis system at work. The goal was a high pressure defense that forced turnovers combined with a methodical low turnover offense. Tipping turnover balance to favor Miami was the key element

 

[Akron Buck]

Oh boy, what a thread you started. One of the great pleasures of this board I watching rumors spoken as truth, opinion as fact and a complete lack of knowledge as to why they are not a College head coach and why they are sitting on the couch.
There are two posters qualified to answer your questions. Cuffsbuff and one other poster I shall not name.
Bottom line- he will be a good DC for you. I don't now if it raises you from #10 to 1 but you should enjoy his brand that fast, swarming with a lot of blitzes. As for CB's turning to see the ball. Except for the most elite it is common throughout CFB.
I am most interested in chemistry. I understand Greg and Urben are friends but that can sometimes lead to disaster in business.

I really wasn't trying to start a drama thread, I was honestly just asking. I saw maybe one Rutgers game before you guys joined the B1G so I wasn't familiar with our new DC's methods.

 

[j10oreo]

Too many with an axe to grind popping up here. Truth is with the level of quality athletes saturating tOSU's roster, I expect great things. I honestly expect to see them dominate. But we did seem ill prepared from time to time, most notably against Cincy and WVU on an annual basis.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I really wasn't trying to start a drama thread, I was honestly just asking. I saw maybe one Rutgers game before you guys joined the B1G so I wasn't familiar with our new DC's methods.

Akron Buck....how about returning the favor......tell us a few things about Fickell as a defensive coach and recruiter? Not that Ash is targeting him, but, I'm curious about your thoughts on his strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Akron Buck]

Fickell is a great linebackers coach, he teaches them the be very aggressive and extensivley teaches then to use their hands to help get off blocks to make the play. tOSU has had alot of amazing LB's that he has coached not to mention the latest in Lee, McMillian, and Perry.

As the main DC he does not adjust well on game day and his DB's were flat out awful that was why we had to bring Ash in to make the game day calls and coach up the DB's.

He is a amazing recruiter, very well liked by Ohio coaches and has been the primary recruiter for some big time talent in Ohio and in Florida. The players love him, they would run through a wall if he asked, he is also well liked by the rest of the coaching staff.

 

[RUChoppin]

Some rankings to consider, too. Just took a look back from 2005-2011 on the ncaa stats site.

Notes:
- We played a triple option team every year in that range (Army or Navy) and played two in 2007, 2008, and 2011 (Army and Navy). That will skew the rushing/passing defense stats a bit.
- Eric Legrand's injury was in 2010, and the team pretty much lost focus on football after that point. Gave up 15.3 ppg through the first 6 games, and 32.3 ppg over the last 7.
- Schiano served as both HC and DC from 2005-2008. In 2009-2010, Bob Fraser and Ed Pinkham shared DC duties. In 2011, Fraser was the DC.

Rush defense:
2005 - 133.0 ypg, 36th
2006 - 101.0 ypg, 17th
2007 - 156.9 ypg, 60th
2008 - 135.6 ypg, 47th
2009 - 103.2 ypg, 15th
2010 - 156.5 ypg, 65th
2011 - 141.9 ypg, 51st

Pass defense:
2005 - 239.3 ypg, 79th
2006 - 151.2 ypg, 6th
2007 - 170.6 ypg, 5th
2008 - 191.3 ypg, 36th
2009 - 204.5 ypg, 39th
2010 - 217.8 ypg, 55th
2011 - 172.3 ypg, 9th

Scoring defense:
2005 - 25.6 ppg, 59th
2006 - 14.3 ppg, 8th
2007 - 22.5 ppg, 30th
2008 - 18.9 ppg, 19th
2009 - 18.0 ppg, 16th
2010 - 26.5 ppg, 62nd
2011 - 18.3 ppg, 8th

Sacks:
2005 - 46, 2nd
2006 - 41, 5th
2007 - 41, 12th
2008 - 29, 40th
2009 - 40, 4th
2010 - 17, 94th
2011 - 35, 15th

TFLs:
2005 - 107, 5th
2006 - 103, 5th
2007 - 94, 20th
2008 - 85, 32nd
2009 - 113, 1st
2010 - 76, 42nd
2011 - 99, 8th

 

[saran]

Fickell is a great linebackers coach, he teaches them the be very aggressive and extensivley teaches then to use their hands to help get off blocks to make the play. tOSU has had alot of amazing LB's that he has coached not to mention the latest in Lee, McMillian, and Perry.

Is Fick coming to RU? Ash said this to a recruit


"Ash also began to open up about his plans for the coaching staff.

"He told me he was going to try to get a new coaching staff and he said that the linebackers coach would most likely be the defensive coordinator, as well," said Manning. "

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/i...nebacker_commit_solomon_manning_recaps_i.html

 

[lighty]

Gary Brackett? Raheem Orr? Shawn Seabrooks? There were some good ballplayers on that team. But why not go to 2010 and having 69 hung on us by Cincy? Or is that somehow not to be counted as well?

Nice of you to point to 2010 to make a point. Before LeGrand was paralyzed, Rutgers was 4-2 and had given up 20 points or more once (twice if you count the game he was injured in). Post LeGrand they gave up 20 points or more in 5 of 6 games -- plus 35+ points in 4 of those 5 games.

That year was an aberration.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Nice of you to point to 2010 to make a point. Before LeGrand was paralyzed, Rutgers was 4-2 and had given up 20 points or more once (twice if you count the game he was injured in). Post LeGrand they gave up 20 points or more in 5 of 6 games -- plus 35+ points in 4 of those 5 games.

That year was an aberration.

And the only decent team they beat in going 4-2 was UCONN. Then they hit the rest of the Big East Schedule and went 0-6. Pick a year; we gave up 40+ to somebody, and often multiple times. Playing an easy OOC and then hitting reality in the Big East was the typical Schiano year. 40-19 OOC and bowls, 28-48 Big East.

Schiano has a lot of upside as a coach. I wouldn't have minded his coming back; not my preference, but I would have been OK with it.

But for some to argue that he is a brilliant defensive strategist is not supported by the data. He's good, but he has clear weaknesses, and game day coaching is one of them.

However, Urban Meyer is smart enough to realize that and not let it affect tOSU. I expect great things out of them next year. I am a big tOSU fan and I think this will net out to be a positive move by Meyer. But you do get some warts.

 

[Akron Buck]

Is Fick coming to RU? Ash said this to a recruit


"Ash also began to open up about his plans for the coaching staff.

"He told me he was going to try to get a new coaching staff and he said that the linebackers coach would most likely be the defensive coordinator, as well," said Manning. "

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/i...nebacker_commit_solomon_manning_recaps_i.html

Don't see Fick leaving for anything short of a head coaching job.

 

[Captain Hogleg]

The Bucs are 6-6 this year. Are they the same whiny pussies that played for Greg?

Wow; they're really tearing it up.

 

[Captain Hogleg]

I guess you haven't watched the NFL in the last twenty years to know rosters turn over more in the league than any other sport.

Bart Starr retired by the way.

Organizational cultures remain the same though. Players come to the Patriots and they adapt to a more disciplined approach. Schiano was trying to instill discipline and accountability, but I guess that was too hard for the Buc players at that time. They would rather have a guy like Raheem Morris kiss their boo boo's.

 

[hiwater]

Good attacking defense. Good blitzes. However you won't get many INT's since he teaches the DB's to not look for the ball.

This is one of the more repeated fallacies repeated by just about every fan base. Every team teaches their DB's the way RU or GS does with respect to playing the ball or the receiver when trailing a receiver in man coverage.

You have to play the receiver. You can't look back in man coverage if you are not close enough to feel or touch them them when you turn back or you will lose them on a double move, any change of direction, or when the ball isn't thrown right there. Our guys just aren't in position to play anything more than the receiver as the ball gets there most of the time.

 

[cubuffsdoug]

This is one of the more repeated fallacies repeated by just about every fan base. Every team teaches their DB's the way RU or GS does with respect to playing the ball or the receiver when trailing a receiver in man coverage.

You have to play the receiver. You can't look back in man coverage if you are not close enough to feel or touch them them when you turn back or you will lose them on a double move, any change of direction, or when the ball isn't thrown right there. Our guys just aren't in position to play anything more than the receiver as the ball gets there most of the time.

You would think a lot of the board members are retired coaches and hall of famers.[winking]

 

[MidwestKnights]

This should be the best place to ask.

What kind of defense does he run? Does he get after the QB? Does he play zone or man?

We get really,really good redruits so he will have a massive amount of talent do you think he can put them in the right spot to succeed?

Fickell does well coaching LB's and Johnson does great coaching Dline, but before Ash our DB's were poorly coached and frankly Ash was the one calling plays on game day so I expect Schiano to take that over.

Crisp tackleing and well executed fundamentals for starters.

When he was Rutgers he emphasized as speed and the Dline was often undersized.Don't know whether that was a Schiano preference or based on the types of recruits he could get to commit to Rutgers.

Defensive backs tend to excel at both man and zone coverage.

also expect to see players swarming to the ball.

 

[NorthNJRUFan]

Organizational cultures remain the same though. Players come to the Patriots and they adapt to a more disciplined approach. Schiano was trying to instill discipline and accountability, but I guess that was too hard for the Buc players at that time. They would rather have a guy like Raheem Morris kiss their boo boo's.

Mrs. Schiano let me help you out.

The Pats win bc they have Tom Brady.
The Bucs QBs suck.
This year the Bucs have a better QB so they are winning more.

 

[winfield102]

11 orange cones would have been more effective than a GS defense against the spread. Maybe we didn't have the talent to get out of the base defense.

Id be surprised if we see OSU playing the same type of defense that RU played under GS, as OSU has much more talent.

 

[Captain Hogleg]

Mrs. Schiano let me help you out.

The Pats win bc they have Tom Brady.
The Bucs QBs suck.
This year the Bucs have a better QB so they are winning more.

Boohoo - you're hurting my feelings. Sorry - you are as whiny as the Bucs players under Schiano. I guess he yelled at you once.

 

[RURod]

OSU fans will love Schiano's defense. RU's defense was at its best when Schiano served as DC, in addition to HC. His D was really the key to RU's rise to respectability.

 

[saran]

OSU fans will love Schiano's defense. RU's defense was at its best when Schiano served as DC, in addition to HC. His D was really the key to RU's rise to respectability.

Must add Rice to that.