A little perspective on some of the young guns. I’m still a little perplexed as to why the young guys want to wrestle right away. All time greats like David Taylor, Ben Askren, etc...redshirted. For example, 4x finalist, 2x champ, 2x hodge winner Ben Askren lost 10 matches in the first six weeks of his redshirt year. I mean, I get wanting to be on stage but that’s what tournaments like Midlands are for. The redshirt just seems like an amazing opportunity to develop. Based on results from just this week, top recruits like Peyton Mocco, Reece Witcraft, Gavin Teasdale all lost. Additionally blue chip younger guys Sammy Sasso (he got pinned), Joey Melendez, Jakob Camacho lost as well. My point is two fold. One, even the best recruits need time to develop and will make mistakes which require patience/us fans to realize the sky isn’t falling. It doesn’t mean these guys aren’t going to be studs. Two, our guys are going to improve dramatically during the year and as long as our system is right and the athletes mindsets are good we have a lot to look forward to. Finally, maybe the desire to compete right away is a good thing. Maybe it indicates a hunger/self confidence/desire to work to be great that will ultimately pay dividends.
Freshman/Redshirt Freshman
- Thread starter FoxRU
- Start date
I still believe in testing the waters with a wait & see outcome.Keep the redshirt going and based on the results we can pull it later.All of the wrestlers will learn by fire so experience is always great for them.
From RU's / Coach Goodale's perspective, I really don't get why Jojo is not redshirting right now, at least to start this year, until after the Southern Scuffle, and maybe all year depending on circumstances.
RU had a viable NCAA qualifier-level wrestler at that weight, experienced, ready, willing and able to deal with the early duals all the way through the Big Ten gauntlet. RU spent huge amounts of time and resources to get Lipari up to this level. Lipari has been a dedicated guy in the program, working hard and improving every year. Why not reward him, and reap the benefits of everything that was spent on him the last 4 years?
Their wrestle-off result indicates that Jojo and Lipari are fairly even right now (Jojo OT win (was Lipari sick?)). Goodale should have made Jojo sit tight, and told him that if he is kicking butt, and dominating, in the tourneys, and over Lipari in the room, then maybe the RS could be pulled later this year. Goodale has even expressed many times that R-O results are not the "only" indicator to determine a starting role early in the year.
I could understand it if there were no viable alternatives to Jojo at 141, but that is simply not the case. Sammy at 133 is a perfect example of why a true Frosh should NOT be redshirted....because Sammy is far and away better than any other RU options at that weight, with Nick being out.
Turley is another example of a RS pulled too early... for what reason? (Donner is about equal to him right now). Jojo and Turley appear at this time to be two mistakes in judgement made by Goodale. Imagine what they could do after 1/2, or one full year, of "seasoning", especially with the improved training partners and environment now at RU, rather then being thrown to the wolves too early when it is not necessary, and when the results in the duals have been underwhelming, and in all honestly, do not really matter in the big picture.
RU had a viable NCAA qualifier-level wrestler at that weight, experienced, ready, willing and able to deal with the early duals all the way through the Big Ten gauntlet. RU spent huge amounts of time and resources to get Lipari up to this level. Lipari has been a dedicated guy in the program, working hard and improving every year. Why not reward him, and reap the benefits of everything that was spent on him the last 4 years?
Their wrestle-off result indicates that Jojo and Lipari are fairly even right now (Jojo OT win (was Lipari sick?)). Goodale should have made Jojo sit tight, and told him that if he is kicking butt, and dominating, in the tourneys, and over Lipari in the room, then maybe the RS could be pulled later this year. Goodale has even expressed many times that R-O results are not the "only" indicator to determine a starting role early in the year.
I could understand it if there were no viable alternatives to Jojo at 141, but that is simply not the case. Sammy at 133 is a perfect example of why a true Frosh should NOT be redshirted....because Sammy is far and away better than any other RU options at that weight, with Nick being out.
Turley is another example of a RS pulled too early... for what reason? (Donner is about equal to him right now). Jojo and Turley appear at this time to be two mistakes in judgement made by Goodale. Imagine what they could do after 1/2, or one full year, of "seasoning", especially with the improved training partners and environment now at RU, rather then being thrown to the wolves too early when it is not necessary, and when the results in the duals have been underwhelming, and in all honestly, do not really matter in the big picture.
Your points are well taken but if part of the recruiting pitch was if you win you start the staff can’t really go back on that. Also, until these guys arrive on campus you don’t really know what weight they will slot into. JoJo could have grown into a 149lber over the summer. The coaching staff can only do so much. Moving forward it might be wise to to scrap the early opening quad and schedule a non-attached tournament like the Princeton Open as the first event of the year so these guys can get some good competition and see where they are relative to the field. It may help some guys decide to redshirt rather than wrestle. On a positive note, these young guys are hungry to compete and perform before the crowds at the RAC. It’s going to be fun watching them develop.
Good points Fox.....It has been pretty clear from the Aragona camp that he wanted to wrestle this season(From last year, this summer, this fall). Just my guess, but during the recruiting process I bet Aragona told Rutgers that he wants to wrestle if he wins the spot. If RU said fine, you cannot then tell him no once he does that.
- Maybe because of Olympic redshirts these freshmen see opportunities to AA with not as tough competition. Maybe there were more than this one wrestleoff with other bouts! There are a lot of reasons why these freshman really wanted to wrestle. This sport gives you a short window. If your healthy they probably feel they should wrestle. Health isnt always on your side in this sport.
Maybe they will wrestle again this season. One school on our schedule looks kind of weak at 141. Stay tuned. $$$$
So much goes into the decision.Grades are also a reason to go right away.Easier for coaches to keep a eye on a guy when he's traveling and competing you can make sure he's doing his work.Some kids do better when they've structure and Aragona is one of them.
Will he be a grad transfer? If not, I would find it highly unlikely that he gets a release to someone in conference or on our schedule. Those are typically the conditions of a release in terms of transferring.
Obviously if he is graduating in December, he will have more flexibility.
Heard it was ASU or Rider so still a chance they wrestle
I have read all the post and wanted to add my opinion.
Rutgers is at another level and will continue to jump. The freshmen have not really been challenged like they will at the college level! This is a really check and a way for them to realize how far they have to go. I am truly impressed by the level in the room. I think we have all have said it is not about the wins and losses it is how far we can go!!!
Next year’s freshmen are already on another level. My opinion I see as all good!!!!
Go Ru!!
Get on the Bus!!!
Rutgers is at another level and will continue to jump. The freshmen have not really been challenged like they will at the college level! This is a really check and a way for them to realize how far they have to go. I am truly impressed by the level in the room. I think we have all have said it is not about the wins and losses it is how far we can go!!!
Next year’s freshmen are already on another level. My opinion I see as all good!!!!
Go Ru!!
Get on the Bus!!!
I can’t wrap my head around the argument that JoJo was promised he would start if he won the wrestle off when winning a wrestle off is just one factor according to coach.
I’m all for the whole athletes don’t have enough power argument in the NCAA, but when it comes to individual teams, the athletes don’t set the agenda. The coaches do. This is going to sting long term. I don’t see a single RU wrestler making R12 this year unless Nicky comes back.
I’m all for the whole athletes don’t have enough power argument in the NCAA, but when it comes to individual teams, the athletes don’t set the agenda. The coaches do. This is going to sting long term. I don’t see a single RU wrestler making R12 this year unless Nicky comes back.
No one here has any idea what was agreed upon between JoJo and the coaching staff, but I can guarantee that the decision for him to wrestle this year was not solely based on the outcome of a single wrestle-off.
I remember one year we had high expectations for a kid, Goodale even said “we’re expecting an ashnault type freshman year” from him... said kid obviously didn’t have an ashnault type freshman year. Also didn’t pan out much their after.
Obviously every kid is different, but I wonder if putting these kids out is helpful or harmful to their development... especially with high expectations.
Obviously every kid is different, but I wonder if putting these kids out is helpful or harmful to their development... especially with high expectations.
Doug Schwab's brother, Mike, a former AA at UNI and a current high school coach, is the one who sold me on the idea of wrestling a true freshman if they're ready, and I DID NOT believe it before hearing his points.
His points are that the future is NOW. If someone is ready to go at that level, and is healthy, why wait? By waiting you simply increase the odds of an off season injury, which will hamper the future, loss of interest by the wrestler, academic problems, etc,.
If they're ready, the future is now!
His points are that the future is NOW. If someone is ready to go at that level, and is healthy, why wait? By waiting you simply increase the odds of an off season injury, which will hamper the future, loss of interest by the wrestler, academic problems, etc,.
If they're ready, the future is now!
Worked pretty well for many wrestlers. Never heard of a true freshman having some success, Spencer Lee?
Dustin Schlatter, Steve Mocco, Myles Martin, Teyon Ware, Yianni, McIllravy, Kyle Dake, J'Den Cox...
I don’t think there’s a right or a wrong way
Some guys are ready. Some aren’t.
Some guys redshirt and it works out. Some guys redshirt and it doesn’t. Other guys wrestle as true freshmen and it works. Other guys wrestle as true freshmen and it doesn’t.
There’s certainly a debate to be had for whether some of these guys are ready this year, but using examples of other wrestlers is pointless.
Some guys are ready. Some aren’t.
Some guys redshirt and it works out. Some guys redshirt and it doesn’t. Other guys wrestle as true freshmen and it works. Other guys wrestle as true freshmen and it doesn’t.
There’s certainly a debate to be had for whether some of these guys are ready this year, but using examples of other wrestlers is pointless.
I know guys at this level think they can beat the world, but the world has a tendency to beat back. Comparing the list of guys thrown out so far seems a stretch.
Spencer: 3x PIAA SC, 1x cadet WC, 2x Jr. WC
Steveson: 4x MN SC, 2x cadet WC, 1x Jr. WC
Yianni: 4x NY SC, 2x Cadet WC
J'Den: 4x MO SC
Schlatter: 4x OH SC
Suriano: 4x NJ SC
Martin: 3x MD SC, 2x Beast, 1x NPrep Champ, 4x NPrep Finalist
Spencer: 3x PIAA SC, 1x cadet WC, 2x Jr. WC
Steveson: 4x MN SC, 2x cadet WC, 1x Jr. WC
Yianni: 4x NY SC, 2x Cadet WC
J'Den: 4x MO SC
Schlatter: 4x OH SC
Suriano: 4x NJ SC
Martin: 3x MD SC, 2x Beast, 1x NPrep Champ, 4x NPrep Finalist
spencer lee is a three time age level world champion who tech falled his way through two of those tournaments.
Ashnault was a 4x undefeated NJ champ and needed red shirt and medical red shirt before winning a national title
I think Jackson Turley was a 4x State champ and a prep national champ and has been fine but nothing world beating this season.
There’s no universal blueprint for any of these guys. It’s entirely case by case.
Unless your elite level like those listed, if your weight class has a competitive wrestler I think most benefit from a year of strength training and working out with college level wrestlers for a full year
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