Genuine question about "fence the garden"

[arigoldrutgers]

There's a lot of fretting about our inability to scoop up 100% of NJ talent for our squad. I understand how hugely beneficial it would be for us. But is it really that common place for the state school to keep all top talent within its borders? Do the majority of top prospects in Texas, Mississippi, Nebraska, etc. all go to a school from their home state?

I ask because every time an NJ athlete picks another school, posters seem to think this indicates ineptitude from our staff.

 

[PaKnight]

No one gets 100%.

 

[ru109]

I checked last year and other than the state of Alabama about half of the top 10 kids leave most states.

 

[Yeah Baby]

It's normal and I never blame the staff but i do often say "what if they all came to RU?"

 

[czxqa]

I checked last year and other than the state of Alabama about half of the top 10 kids leave most states.

And most states have two D1 schools.

 

[miket007]

I'm pissed with the $$$ they provided Ash for assistants, we needed some legit known recruiters on this staff because the talent left from the "Floodster" was scary

 

[MikeR0102]

I'm pissed with the $$$ they provided Ash for assistants, we needed some legit known recruiters on this staff because the talent left from the "Floodster" was scary

I agree. You can pay now, or you can pay later. I don't know who Ash would or would not have replaced if he had an extra 200,000 for assistants, but the ability to go get a veteran OC last year would have helped the staff greatly.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Smh. We have a Top 30 class and we just hired Kill. Look forward.

 

[greenknight]

We will recruit nationally. We need to pick 1-10-12 from NJ the rest nationally

 

[ashokan]

Rutgers needs a "brand". Ohio, Michigan, ND, PSU - you know who they are and what they offer - you know their brand. With RU the brand - if there is one - isn't very good by comparison. RU started to fashion one with Schiano. Belichik recruiting so many RU guys highlighted that but that has fallen away.

 

[RUskoolie]

I'm pissed with the $$$ they provided Ash for assistants, we needed some legit known recruiters on this staff because the talent left from the "Floodster" was scary

You don't think this staff can recruit? Your posts lead me to believe you have an unrealistically high bar for RU

 

[17Q66]

Rutgers doesn't need to FTG; it needs to recruit nationally.

 

[miket007]

You don't think this staff can recruit? Your posts lead me to believe you have an unrealistically high bar for RU

Not a high bar skoolie but we're in the B1G now, some will say 2-10 with a 30th ranked class is great which it is 1 month before signing day i'm just hoping we don't drop past 40 as others start to fill up, as we've seen in the past Ash is getting that "new coach bump" which only last so long regardless of record but we shouldn't never finish out of the top 35 for recruiting imo

 

[miket007]

Rutgers doesn't need to FTG; it needs to recruit nationally.

We don't have a quality program for us to recruit nationally, don't understand how folks don't get R bread n butter is the northeast/mid atlantic

 

[RU#1fan]

Rutgers doesn't need to FTG; it needs to recruit nationally.

Wrong.
Getting marginal 3 star and 2 star players nationally is not going to cut it in the B1G.
This will always keep RU towards the bottom of our Division.
Need 7 or 8 of the Top 25 New Jersey recruits every year to have any chance to move up.

 

[17Q66]

We don't have a quality program for us to recruit nationally, don't understand how folks don't get R bread n butter is the northeast/mid atlantic

If what you believe is true, then we will be perpetually mediocre.

 

[miket007]

If what you believe is true, then we will be perpetually mediocre.

That it would be a mistake for us to recruit nationally?

 

[madchuck]

When NJ starts to look like this, we'll move up. Most big schools get about half of the top 10 recruits.

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Fo...Rankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=MI

 

[RU#1fan]

That it would be a mistake for us to recruit nationally?

You will not get the quality of recruits on a national basis needed to get RU to win in the B1G.
Need to have success in your backyard with the blue chip Recruits to make RU a upper half contender in the B1G East.

 

[PaKnight]

You will not get the quality of recruits on a national basis needed to get RU to win in the B1G.
Need to have success in your backyard with the blue chip Recruits to make RU a upper half contender in the B1G East.

I would include NY and eastern Pa with NJ.

 

[RU#1fan]

I would include NY and eastern Pa with NJ.

Yes

 

[RU#1fan]

When NJ starts to look like this, we'll move up. Most big schools get about half of the top 10 recruits.

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Fo...Rankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=MI

EXACTLY
Look at where the Top In State Recruits are going in the B1G. Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin kids are all going to their B1G teams. Hell, even frick'n Indiana has 6 of their Top 15 Recruits committing to their Program.

 

[RUskoolie]

Not a high bar skoolie but we're in the B1G now, some will say 2-10 with a 30th ranked class is great which it is 1 month before signing day i'm just hoping we don't drop past 40 as others start to fill up, as we've seen in the past Ash is getting that "new coach bump" which only last so long regardless of record but we shouldn't never finish out of the top 35 for recruiting imo

I must have missed Flood's new coach bump 4 years ago....Given the shit storm Ash walked into and the ass whippings this fall, I think he has done a great job. IMO you're not realistic about RU recruiting right now.

 

[PSU_Nut]

There's a lot of fretting about our inability to scoop up 100% of NJ talent for our squad. I understand how hugely beneficial it would be for us. But is it really that common place for the state school to keep all top talent within its borders? Do the majority of top prospects in Texas, Mississippi, Nebraska, etc. all go to a school from their home state?

I ask because every time an NJ athlete picks another school, posters seem to think this indicates ineptitude from our staff.

No one is going to get every one but if you want to win you have to be able to recruit well in your home area. Choosing a college for most kids is a regional thing. Sure you have kids who go away but the majority will want to stay within a 3-5 hr drive of home. As a football coach you have to take advantage of that advantage because recruiting time and resources are finite so you have to go where you have the best odds. You then supplement this with those out of area kids who have a legit interest in the school. They may be child hood fans, originally from the area, or relatives in the area etc. If you strike out in those areas then you start the cold calling. It unrealistic to think a school is going to really recruit nationally. Even a school like Alabama get the majority of kids from their region.

 

[nikoru09]

you do realize this is Rutgers. I was born in Newark,and went to Belleville high.
growing up my dream was to play for notre dame, why?...because I didn't know
who or what Rutgers was. I thought it was an ivy league school. the point I'm
trying to make is RU is barely a NJ brand, never mind a national brand.
were very late, in the big time college football world. as far a education, its a great brand.
the only claim to fame is the birthplace of cf. that's not gonna cut.it... honestly what
shiano did here was nothing short of amazing. he turned a dumpster fire, into a
respected, and competitive program. wasn't the best game day coach, but the building
of this program was his mission, and he accomplished that. if we become like a iowa,or
even the always use to be doormat northwestern. middle of the pack program that goes
bowling every year we should jump for joy.we will never be ohio st., Michigan, or I hate to
say penn st. we are Rutgers. let coach ash do his job. the man wanted to be here.. I think
he was offered the cuse job before babers...he wanted to coach here. think about that.
we'll never be a notre dame...but we will be RUTGERS

 

[Fishky]

Nobody does but we are the only in state D1 program if we could keep half of the talent home and fill in from other states we will be good. This year is a great start and I am excited about the Jerry Kill hire too. Losing guys like Singleton and Bell hurts and if we can't get Lovett back but it won't be the end of the world. I just wish we could have kept them for our future. If we show improvement this year and these highly rated freshmen play well I could see recruiting getting better. We have to show improvement in the win column 4-5 wins at least. Then 2 years a signature win and a bowl game.

 

[Knight Shift]

you do realize this is Rutgers. I was born in Newark,and went to Belleville high.
growing up my dream was to play for notre dame, why?...because I didn't know
who or what Rutgers was. I thought it was an ivy league school. the point I'm
trying to make is RU is barely a NJ brand, never mind a national brand.
were very late, in the big time college football world. as far a education, its a great brand.
the only claim to fame is the birthplace of cf. that's not gonna cut.it... honestly what
shiano did here was nothing short of amazing. he turned a dumpster fire, into a
respected, and competitive program. wasn't the best game day coach, but the building
of this program was his mission, and he accomplished that. if we become like a iowa,or
even the always use to be doormat northwestern. middle of the pack program that goes
bowling every year we should jump for joy.we will never be ohio st., Michigan, or I hate to
say penn st. we are Rutgers. let coach ash do his job. the man wanted to be here.. I think
he was offered the cuse job before babers...he wanted to coach here. think about that.
we'll never be a notre dame...but we will be RUTGERS

pretty much what you said in bold. Would be very happy to become like Iowa and/or Northwestern, and throw in a couple/few 10-3/11-2 seasons once every 3-5 years.

 

[zappaa]

Like it or not, realty or not, through all his failures...GS still had this state and country for that matter believing he'd turned this program around.
We on here point to not beating WVU, not stopping spread offenses, loosing at home to Fresno, Cincy and UNC, loosing to UCONN, but somehow he still survived and never lost his label as a great coach

 

[Fishky]

That's true of the old days but I think since 2006 everyone knows where we are and who we are. I grew up in New Brunswick so I was always an RU guy it's easy for me to to say we have never really recruited NJ to its full potential better under Schiano for sure and this year if the class stays together like I think it will. But not fully yet where we keep all the talent home.

 

[zappaa]

That's true of the old days but I think since 2006 everyone knows where we are and who we are. I grew up in New Brunswick so I was always an RU guy it's easy for me to to say we have never really recruited NJ to its full potential better under Schiano for sure and this year if the class stays together like I think it will. But not fully yet where we keep all the talent home.

I'm not talking reality
I'm talking perception

 

[GSGS]

There's a lot of fretting about our inability to scoop up 100% of NJ talent for our squad. I understand how hugely beneficial it would be for us. But is it really that common place for the state school to keep all top talent within its borders? Do the majority of top prospects in Texas, Mississippi, Nebraska, etc. all go to a school from their home state?

I ask because every time an NJ athlete picks another school, posters seem to think this indicates ineptitude from our staff.

Beware, some of those posters are trolls from rival fan bases just here to flame, such as "rivals1982" when Singleton committed to Harbaugh, Inc.

Ash did a really nice job this year getting as many of the NJ Top 25 as he has so far. Other recruits, I'll call them the "flavor of the month club", e.g. Fred Hansard, won't come here until we show some real success on the field under Ash. Some recruits, unfortunately, just don't have the self-confidence / initiative / leadership to be willing to take a chance on an up-and-coming program, even when it is the state college of their home state.

 

[Fishky]

Flood took care of perception for us unfortunately along with all of the other crap that's gone wrong in RU sports. Hopefully this doesn't hurt in the long run. I guess overall though we still don't have the tradition of winning even though we had some good years. So I get what you are saying in that respect. We are not perceived as a good program yet. Hopefully this changes sooner than later.

 

[REDRICH65]

Maybe mods need to check posters RU diplomas or NJ birth certificates before letting them post. Limits the numbers of trolls here. lol.

 

[WhiteBus]

For those that think that it is their personal responsibility to get involved in recruiting to "help the team because I am a loyal fan" don't! Stop that stupid thinking. People like you just make things worse. Thankfully it's a very small percentage on this board but there are some that are such wack jobs they think they are helping. What they really need to do is get themselves some help.

http://www.onthebanks.com/2017/1/2/14119336/rutgers-football-recruiting-chris-ash

 

[zappaa]

For those that think that it is their personal responsibility to get involved in recruiting to "help the team because I am a loyal fan" don't! Stop that stupid thinking. People like you just make things worse. Thankfully it's a very small percentage on this board but there are some that are such wack jobs they think they are helping. What they really need to do is get themselves some help.

http://www.onthebanks.com/2017/1/2/14119336/rutgers-football-recruiting-chris-ash

BUT, BUT…we have posters on here that insist our recruits need lots of love.

 

[17Q66]

Rutgers has been trying to win with the "if we can just keep the in-state talent at home" mantra for more than 30 years. It's the definition of insanity. Rutgers is now in the most renowned conference in college athletics. It's the closest FBS program to Wall Street and Times Square. Some kids just want to follow the blue-bloods. Rutgers has to start chasing 4* guys across the country who want to leverage proximity to NYC.

Don't misunderstand me; I'd love to see Rutgers execute on a strategy to keep 95% of the top 20 Garden Staters on campus, but after 30+ years of it not working, I don't see it happening. The point about the Garden State's talent base is that Rutgers will always have native stock to keep it on top, but the nature of New Jersey is that it won't move it on top. The only thing that's going to do that is out of state talent, which -- incidentally -- is how Schiano did it.

Merely the way it is. Rutgers has been dedicated to trying to keep its in-state talent for more than a generation, with middling success. At some point, you have to admit it's not a winning strategy and find another one that works.

 

[madchuck]

Rutgers has been trying to win with the "if we can just keep the in-state talent at home" mantra for more than 30 years. It's the definition of insanity. Rutgers is now in the most renowned conference in college athletics. It's the closest FBS program to Wall Street and Times Square. Some kids just want to follow the blue-bloods. Rutgers has to start chasing 4* guys across the country who want to leverage proximity to NYC.

Don't misunderstand me; I'd love to see Rutgers execute on a strategy to keep 95% of the top 20 Garden Staters on campus, but after 30+ years of it not working, I don't see it happening. The point about the Garden State's talent base is that Rutgers will always have native stock to keep it on top, but the nature of New Jersey is that it won't move it on top. The only thing that's going to do that is out of state talent, which -- incidentally -- is how Schiano did it.

Merely the way it is. Rutgers has been dedicated to trying to keep its in-state talent for more than a generation, with middling success. At some point, you have to admit it's not a winning strategy and find another one that works.

Flood messed up by ruining that Florida connection that Schiano had.

 

[kjb32812]

We will recruit nationally. We need to pick 1-10-12 from NJ the rest nationally

This will firmly cement Rutgers at the bottom of the B1G.

Rutgers doesn't need to FTG; it needs to recruit nationally.

Not a flame, but what exactly is the selling point that you are going to use? Weather, academics, campus, history, network? You're crazy.

Wrong.
Getting marginal 3 star and 2 star players nationally is not going to cut it in the B1G.
This will always keep RU towards the bottom of our Division.
Need 7 or 8 of the Top 25 New Jersey recruits every year to have any chance to move up.

^^^Gets it.

I never understand when people on here suggest that you are going to recruit nationally. What is the draw exactly?

Look at who your two biggest recruits are this year and where they are from. Heck, look at the number of 4 and 5*s you have gotten over the past decade and let me know what percentage of them were from NJ. I would guess 85% or more.

The reality is that your home state provides several advantages - proximity, camps, easier to build relationships because of face time, etc. BTW, it is also loaded with talent and has the 8th most amount of players in the NFL.

POA would be 40-50% of your T10 every year. For now, I could see expanding that to 40-50% of your T20.

If you want to start recruiting nationally then be prepared to have a bunch of unranked or lower ranked kids who no one else wanted.

EDIT: I went back and looked and I was way off. The exact number was 12/23. Regardless, 52% of your highest rated kids came from your home state. I didn't look intensely but three (Savage, Denman, Muller) were from PA and I believe two were from NY.

Still proves my point.

 

[Knight Shift]

Flood messed up by ruining that Florida connection that Schiano had.

What do you base this statement on? If anything, based on numbers alone, Florida recruiting was trending down under Greg, and Flood stepped it up.

Year-#Florida recruits
2009-2
2010-8
2011-2
2012-1
Total-15
2013-4
2014-7
2015-4
2016-2
Total- 17

Shane Burnham has deep ties in Florida and Aaron Henry is from Florida. Wonder if they will keep the Florida pipeline open.

 

[17Q66]

Wrong.
Getting marginal 3 star and 2 star players nationally is not going to cut it in the B1G.
This will always keep RU towards the bottom of our Division.
Need 7 or 8 of the Top 25 New Jersey recruits every year to have any chance to move up.

This is the textbook definition of a strawman argument.

Flood messed up by ruining that Florida connection that Schiano had.

How can Flood mess that up if it's a connection he didn't have?