Geo and Eugene took 31 out of 61 shots

[Greene Rice FIG]

The game was lost more on the defensive end than offensive end, but this is not good.

Primary blame is on them and NOT other guys not willing to step up.

If this does not change we will end up being no better an offensive team than last year. I expect when the dust settles that we will be at BEST equal to last year defensively. The gains are to be made offensively and we have to have a better distribution of shots and touches.

We become very easy to defend with those 2 getting most of the looks. The last 2 games offensively have looked a lot like last year and it bothers me.

 

[winfield102]

I see them as an upgraded version of Sanders and Freeman. Geo will lay the ball off to the open guy. He needs to be a shoot first PG who actively looks for his shot. He needs 15 shots a game imo. He had 2-3 that were half way down yesterday.
EO's offense is a work in progress. He working to get to the hoop(look how deliberate Happ is).

Thiam isn't shooting, Mathis can't shoot or finish yet (I like his potential), McConnell can't score yet, Kiss has been hot and cold. Harper has been excellent inside the 3 and his teammates do a good job of finding him as he gets into a good position for a shot. I'd like to see 5-6 more dump downs to the 3 bigs. I think they have shown that they deserve the ball when they get position.

We just don't have enough guys that can break down a defense by penetrating into the lane. We just don't have the penetrate and kick. Fordham had a few 3's that way yesterday.

 

[biazza38]

Geo needs time off the ball. Frankly Kiss needs to hit his shots. He missed some big threes. If he’s going to shoot a low percentage behind the arc, then get Caleb out there instead to handle the ball while freeing up Geo

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

This is going to drag down the roster if it continues. We don't use Doucoure, Carter or Myles inside. I like Eugene in transition or secondary break taking a 3 up top, more than post up Eugene.

It's not shot attempts as much as ball dominance....right now, teammates have to step forward and show themselves to be available.

And the offense can't value a 3 pointer as the only mechanism to score from the SG and SF position. Get drives and plays to the basket, draw contact, get teams in foul trouble. Can't do that asking Harper and Mathis to show their worth as stationary 3 point shooters.

 

[TDIrish27]

Offensive basketball in the world of today is about layups and 3's

Can't shoot 30 % and under on 3's and expect good results

Especially if the other team is shooting plus 40 % which is what happened yesterday.

 

[JQRU91]

I think part of the problem is Mathis took more shots earlier in the year and wasn't hitting them, and Harper's shooting from three has been poor. And Kiss has been inconsistent at best. Perhaps Eugene and Geo feel the burden to shoot more, because there's a bit of a trust issue? And we should definitely try to feed our bigs more. Right now, our only real inside game is Eugene backing down his man in the paint with somewhat mixed results.

 

[bac2therac]

As troubling as the offense was yesterday and there are certainly concerns..it was the hideous defense that put so much pressure on the offense

 

[RUsojo]

The problem is the terrible half court offense. It’s like there is coaching going on. What annoys me is coach said we would focus on getting offense in transition this year which he correctly identified as an absolute necessity yet our pace does not reflect those intentions.

What also pisses me off is last two years we played probably most of the first 45 of the first 60 games emphasizing the dribble hand off when it did NOT suit our roster. Coach finally made a change late in both seasons and we picked up some wins by freeing up Corey. This year we would be much better off mixing in dribble hand off but it’s nowhere to be found.

We are a grossly inept offensively coaches team 70 games into Pikiells tenure. His strength is defense and it’s rhe reason we’ve shown a pulse here and there and the reason the program has some goodwill at the moment (I’m happy it does - but you know I believe a lot of it, not all, is misguided - AGAIN for you negative Nancy’s I AM HAPPY we are viewed as program people believe is trending up).

Ultimately I believe the only way to fix this is to make a big change on the coaching staff to get an offensive minded guy in here and it will be on Pike to attract a strong candidate.

 

[soundcrib]

Eugene has become deshawn 2.0. Pikiell yanked him after some inexcusable possession, sat him for awhile, and screamed at him for being deshawn 2.0 right before he checked him back in.

We never feed the post except to Eugene, even when Shaq, Myles, or Shaq have their man sealed off on the block really, really well.

Kiss and Thiam play like they don’t want to be the legit third scoring option. We need one. Montez plays like he wants to be when he’s out there but just doesn’t have the offensive ability right now to do so.

Geo is so much better off the ball. Anyone screaming that we’re better off without an athletic dribble drive PG (Corey) just needs to watch the last three games. Next year we have one in Jacob Young. If Montez has better decision making it could be him when we’re in a pinch but in the limited minutes he’s out there he’s looking to score.

All of this means on any given night we win on defense, hoping the other team misses, ride or dying with Geo & Eugene, and hoping we get a big game out of a 3rd person.

 

[RUChow]

Geo needs time off the ball. Frankly Kiss needs to hit his shots. He missed some big threes. If he’s going to shoot a low percentage behind the arc, then get Caleb out there instead to handle the ball while freeing up Geo

Kiss is 100 times better all around player than Caleb.

 

[soundcrib]

Oh and we’re terrible at the line.

 

[RUDead]

Kiss is 100 times better all around player than Caleb.

Huh? Caleb has only played a few games at this point. Not sure how you came up with this. He is a true frosh. Kiss should be a junior at this point. He should be a better player. Caleb will be better in the long run imo.

 

[RU-ROCS]

This is going to drag down the roster if it continues. We don't use Doucoure, Carter or Myles inside. I like Eugene in transition or secondary break taking a 3 up top, more than post up Eugene.

The inability to get the ball down low to the big men had been a problem all season. There’ve been games where RU has had a clear advantage inside and totally failed to exploit it. Pike has to get that fixed.

 

[Scangg]

The inability to get the ball down low to the big men had been a problem all season. There’ve been games where RU has had a clear advantage inside and totally failed to exploit it. Pike has to get that fixed.

It's frustrating. The guards and wings don't give a serious look. They give a casual glance then swing it back around the perimeter every time. Myles has shown excellent post moves and is a good passer. He needs multiple touches in the post every game. Perimeter shooting isn't working. Let's try to use our size and pound it inside. We are one of the biggest teams around so take advantage inside. If we can get success there it will lead to more open looks for the 3 point shooters

 

[RUChoppin]

Oh and we’re terrible at the line.

That's at least gotten a touch better. We're 30/42 (.714) the last three games after starting 58/104 (.558) - still not great, but 71% at least makes us a middle-of-the-road team from the line.

Agree completely on our inability (disinterest?) in getting the ball down low. Against Fordham, so many of our points were in paint, and their interior defense wasn't very good - yet Doorson/Johnson/Carter combined for just 8 shots in 37 min.

 

[RickB113]

The problem is the terrible half court offense. It’s like there is coaching going on. What annoys me is coach said we would focus on getting offense in transition this year which he correctly identified as an absolute necessity yet our pace does not reflect those intentions.

What also pisses me off is last two years we played probably most of the first 45 of the first 60 games emphasizing the dribble hand off when it did NOT suit our roster. Coach finally made a change late in both seasons and we picked up some wins by freeing up Corey. This year we would be much better off mixing in dribble hand off but it’s nowhere to be found.

We are a grossly inept offensively coaches team 70 games into Pikiells tenure. His strength is defense and it’s rhe reason we’ve shown a pulse here and there and the reason the program has some goodwill at the moment (I’m happy it does - but you know I believe a lot of it, not all, is misguided - AGAIN for you negative Nancy’s I AM HAPPY we are viewed as program people believe is trending up).

Ultimately I believe the only way to fix this is to make a big change on the coaching staff to get an offensive minded guy in here and it will be on Pike to attract a strong candidate.

It has nothing to do with the scheme. We just don't have good offensive players. You talk often about our recruiting and I am with you there where many others aren't. We need to upgrade the talent. We have one big ten quality guard in Geo and a frost in Mathis who is developing. That is not going to get it done. Thiam and Kiss are not going to get it done either. At this point we just need to get Harper and Mathis as many minutes as possible in the hopes they can be counted on next year. Same with Johnson. Then add Young and Mulchahy to that and you may have something. Ideally though we need to add another scorer.

 

[rufeelinit]

I think Shaq Doorson's offensive game remains very limited. I would not be emphasizing the post when he is in there. I have not seen Shaq Carter get enough touches within the offensive flow to know what he can do. Myles and to a lesser extent Doucore (off last years observations) seem to be the individuals you want in the game to score from the post. The question is can they play well enough down the other end. The Shaq's will get you points but it will be more of the second chance put back variety.

 

[toby83]

It has nothing to do with the scheme. We just don't have good offensive players. You talk often about our recruiting and I am with you there where many others aren't. We need to upgrade the talent. We have one big ten quality guard in Geo and a frost in Mathis who is developing. That is not going to get it done. Thiam and Kiss are not going to get it done either. At this point we just need to get Harper and Mathis as many minutes as possible in the hopes they can be counted on next year. Same with Johnson. Then add Young and Mulchahy to that and you may have something. Ideally though we need to add another scorer.

this whole post is spot on

 

[toby83]

Thiam, Kiss, Doorson are not Big Ten players.
they will be consistently wildly inconsistent at this level all season.

 

[kcg88]

Harper should be playing 20+ minutes and Johnson should definitely be on the floor more. Not sure how you can write off a sophomore in Kiss while insisting Mathis play more.

 

[higgins3]

Pikiell tends to lean on his strong offensive players.

He spent four years working offense around his one power forward at Stony Brook.

The offense needs to return to the first couple of games. Also, someone like Shaq Carter needs to get some plays run for him to keep it balanced.

 

[kcg88]

Pikiell tends to lean on his strong offensive players.

He spent four years working offense around his one power forward at Stony Brook.

The offense needs to return to the first couple of games. Also, someone like Shaq Carter needs to get some plays run for him to keep it balanced.

Yup. I'm starting to get more worried that we're talking about an average offensive coaching staff at best. The last two years were mostly write-offs with the lack of talent but this year is concerning, especially since the later in the season we're getting and the more coaching they're presumably getting, the worse the offense has looked.

It'll be better next year with Young and Mulcahy but arey the maximizing the potential output currently? I don't think so.

 

[higgins3]

Yup. I'm starting to get more worried that we're talking about an average offensive coaching staff at best. The last two years were mostly write-offs with the lack of talent but this year is concerning, especially since the later in the season we're getting and the more coaching they're presumably getting, the worse the offense has looked.

It'll be better next year with Young and Mulcahy but arey the maximizing the potential output currently? I don't think so.

Time will tell. It can get predictable at times.

To mask that, recruiting has to continue to pick up.

 

[bac2therac]

It has nothing to do with the scheme. We just don't have good offensive players. You talk often about our recruiting and I am with you there where many others aren't. We need to upgrade the talent. We have one big ten quality guard in Geo and a frost in Mathis who is developing. That is not going to get it done. Thiam and Kiss are not going to get it done either. At this point we just need to get Harper and Mathis as many minutes as possible in the hopes they can be counted on next year. Same with Johnson. Then add Young and Mulchahy to that and you may have something. Ideally though we need to add another scorer.

but this was always the issue for this year. Year 3 was going to be a year that the team was full of youth and needed to replace Freeman/Sanders....we accelerate the timeline by losing Sanders early. He would have given maybe an extra few wins but also less development for the rest. This team was always going to be in the 11-14 range in wins this year. Its very young and while the talent is upgraded, its not developed yet. The panic would be for next year if this team is struggling to get over 500

 

[kcg88]

Time will tell. It can get predictable at times.

To mask that, recruiting has to continue to pick up.

We played 74 possessions against FDU and 76 against Drexel. Neither of those teams plays a gimmick offense like Savannah State or The Citadel where you get more possessions just because they chuck it up early every time down. We played 72 possessions against St. John's and I'm worried that game scared our coaching staff into over-correcting.

Since then, we haven't been above 70 and the last three were 64, 63, 64. I think part of it is intentionally slowing the game down because they only have one ballhandler they trust. Which makes sense, but I think Kiss, Mathis, Harper, and even Thiam might all be better players in transition than in the halfcourt. Even Eugene was getting his good looks from 3 in transition in those first two games.

Remember all those alley-oops and long passes leading to open threes early on? We've been missing those, badly. This team is seemingly built to run except doing so risks wearing out our best player and primary ball-handler.

 

[bac2therac]

Yup. I'm starting to get more worried that we're talking about an average offensive coaching staff at best. The last two years were mostly write-offs with the lack of talent but this year is concerning, especially since the later in the season we're getting and the more coaching they're presumably getting, the worse the offense has looked.

It'll be better next year with Young and Mulcahy but arey the maximizing the potential output currently? I don't think so.

I think its a case of the coaching staff has stressed defense alot..remember how bad we were on D earlier this year. I think its factoring in on the offensive mindset. Also the coaching staff is slow in letting the reigns off Mathis and Harper for being offensive options. Any gameplan to just have it be Geo and Eugene is going to fail. Needs to be a group effort on offense and we are slow to get to that point. Hopefully it comes with more experience and trust and yes there will be frustrating mistakes along the way

 

[Rutgers25]

The game was lost more on the defensive end than offensive end, but this is not good.

Primary blame is on them and NOT other guys not willing to step up.

If this does not change we will end up being no better an offensive team than last year. I expect when the dust settles that we will be at BEST equal to last year defensively. The gains are to be made offensively and we have to have a better distribution of shots and touches.

We become very easy to defend with those 2 getting most of the looks. The last 2 games offensively have looked a lot like last year and it bothers me.

Agree. Not sure why we have regressed from the ball movement we saw earlier in the year. Offense has gone stagnant. Could it be that the offense we saw earlier in the year required a lot more energy and took away from defensive intensity, which bothered Pike?

 

[higgins3]

We played 74 possessions against FDU and 76 against Drexel. Neither of those teams plays a gimmick offense like Savannah State or The Citadel where you get more possessions just because they chuck it up early every time down. We played 72 possessions against St. John's and I'm worried that game scared our coaching staff into over-correcting.

Since then, we haven't been above 70 and the last three were 64, 63, 64. I think part of it is intentionally slowing the game down because they only have one ballhandler they trust. Which makes sense, but I think Kiss, Mathis, Harper, and even Thiam might all be better players in transition than in the halfcourt. Even Eugene was getting his good looks from 3 in transition in those first two games.

Remember all those alley-oops and long passes leading to open threes early on? We've been missing those, badly. This team is seemingly built to run except doing so risks wearing out our best player and primary ball-handler.

Competition was so foul for the first couple of games so little could be compared to them now.

It is possible staff is overcorrecting. Guards should be cherry picking unless opponents guards are great rebounders on the other team. I agree that Harper Jr and Mathis should be instructed differently.

Maybe Geo was seen as a stop gap for PG play this year? Still, the team won by 30+ points and McConnell played 3 minutes during those games. It is seen as late now to start switching CM to pg and Geo off ball. Maybe it would have worked better.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think it is a lot of factors...but mainly
1. tougher opponents take away passing lanes and just makes it more difficult to move the ball
2. fatigue...both from amount of games and increased intensity on the defensive end
3. Baker and Eugene are trying to do too much
4. Certain players have a fear of missing or having shot blocked

I do expect Pikiell to make an effort over the next 3 weeks during a lot of practice time not dedicated to preparing for an opponent to get this fixed.

 

[essexknight]

The game was lost more on the defensive end than offensive end, but this is not good.

Primary blame is on them and NOT other guys not willing to step up.

If this does not change we will end up being no better an offensive team than last year. I expect when the dust settles that we will be at BEST equal to last year defensively. The gains are to be made offensively and we have to have a better distribution of shots and touches.

We become very easy to defend with those 2 getting most of the looks. The last 2 games offensively have looked a lot like last year and it bothers me.

Thiam needs to make more of an impact on the offensive end. He is 6’10 and can shoot. He is also an upperclassman. He has the height to punish smaller defenders inside. He should be doing that more in addition to shooting open 3s.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Thiam needs to make more of an impact on the offensive end. He is 6’10 and can shoot. He is also an upperclassman. He has the height to punish smaller defenders inside. He should be doing that more in addition to shooting open 3s.

It seems like we make an effort early in games to get Issa going and often times he does score early, but then we go away from it. Part is on Issa, part on the coaching staff, and part on the other 4 players. We desperately need Issa's usage to approach 20% (1/5 = 20%). Being efficient in the 10% area doesn't help the offense.

http://www.barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2019&p=Issa Thiam&t=Rutgers

 

[bac2therac]

I think it is a lot of factors...but mainly
1. tougher opponents take away passing lanes and just makes it more difficult to move the ball
2. fatigue...both from amount of games and increased intensity on the defensive end
3. Baker and Eugene are trying to do too much
4. Certain players have a fear of missing or having shot blocked

I do expect Pikiell to make an effort over the next 3 weeks during a lot of practice time not dedicated to preparing for an opponent to get this fixed.

RU will have just 3 games to play over the course of 27 days....HUGE time period to work on things. Its a critical period to work on things

 

[beaced]

Need BETTER shooters. From the Field and at the Line.It's that simple. put up points and we win more games.Some day maybe. Until then. Much ado about nothing.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Need BETTER shooters. From the Field and at the Line.It's that simple. put up points and we win more games.Some day maybe. Until then. Much ado about nothing.

We have 5 guys who have attempted a meaningful amount of 3 pointers

.441
.435
.418
.366
.160

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I started this thread.....but looking we scored 70 in 64 possessions. I hate the way our offense looks, but statisticly it is actually much better than last year and better than what my eyes tell me.

 

[MadRU]

This is going to drag down the roster if it continues. We don't use Doucoure, Carter or Myles inside. I like Eugene in transition or secondary break taking a 3 up top, more than post up Eugene.

It's not shot attempts as much as ball dominance....right now, teammates have to step forward and show themselves to be available.

And the offense can't value a 3 pointer as the only mechanism to score from the SG and SF position. Get drives and plays to the basket, draw contact, get teams in foul trouble. Can't do that asking Harper and Mathis to show their worth as stationary 3 point shooters.

Agree Eugene's face up game has been much better than expected, 3 point shooting and even inside the arc. But to counter that his post up game, with his back to the basket is a negative now. He has to stop with the crazy deliveries and fade aways that barely draw iron. Hope he sits down and watches game video and can see this, he should be a good passer from the blocks, kicking out to Geo and others or rotating it to the opposite side.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agree Eugene's face up game has been much better than expected, 3 point shooting and even inside the arc. But to counter that his post up game, with his back to the basket is a negative now. He has to stop with the crazy deliveries and fade aways that barely draw iron. Hope he sits down and watches game video and can see this, he should be a good passer from the blocks, kicking out to Geo and others or rotating it to the opposite side.

RUSS WOOD. Any chance you have offensive efficiency stats when Eugene gets the ball in the post AND when he squares up on perimeter perimeter. Latter will be skewed positively because his 3pt %

 

[kcg88]

RUSS WOOD. Any chance you have offensive efficiency stats when Eugene gets the ball in the post AND when he squares up on perimeter perimeter. Latter will be skewed positively because his 3pt %

@Greene Rice FIG
I don't have the Synergy stats but maybe these help:

Possibly more readable with direct links:
https://i.ibb.co/Qnp3Lq4/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/6PmT0CY/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/d2SSNHg/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/RvS2pLc/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/4YSpCPZ/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/wQ1dnL0/image.png
https://i.ibb.co/RzxMcRD/image.png

 

[RUDead]

I started this thread.....but looking we scored 70 in 64 possessions. I hate the way our offense looks, but statisticly it is actually much better than last year and better than what my eyes tell me.

It's because we are making the bunnies this year. Team has way better hands overall than last year, which is resulting in more easy baskets. Remember how many layups we missed the last two years. Almost everyone on the team can take that easy one and lay it in.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

wow...that is the motherload of stats. i am a little happy right now