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Golf Rules Question…Whitebus?

zappaa

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Jul 27, 2001
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Montclair NJ
I'm playing a match in the club championship, 7:30 tee off so we run into the mowers on the 4th hole.

Playing summer rules I hit my ball into the ruff, I locate my ball, identify it's mine and proceed to hit a good shot, 50 yards short of the green…I'm laying two on a par 5, in the fairway…a 50 yard pitch away.
When I get to my sphere I noticed the mower had shaved off the top layer of my ball, it was sitting in the ruff with the opposite end up and I had no idea the ball had been mowed over and cut.

What happens in match play, what happens in stroke play?

Because we were playing match play, my opponent allowed me to replace the ball with no penalty where I was lying two, but I hit an illegal ball to get to that spot???
 
I'm playing a match in the club championship, 7:30 tee off so we run into the mowers on the 4th hole.

Playing summer rules I hit my ball into the ruff, I locate my ball, identify it's mine and proceed to hit a good shot, 50 yards short of the green…I'm laying two on a par 5, in the fairway…a 50 yard pitch away.
When I get to my sphere I noticed the mower had shaved off the top layer of my ball, it was sitting in the ruff with the opposite end up and I had no idea the ball had been mowed over and cut.

What happens in match play, what happens in stroke play?

Because we were playing match play, my opponent allowed me to replace the ball with no penalty where I was lying two, but I hit an illegal ball to get to that spot???

A ball is unfit for play if it is visibly cut, cracked or out of shape. A ball is not unfit for play solely because mud or other materials adhere to it, its surface is scratched or scraped or its paint is damaged or discoloured.

If a player has reason to believe his ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, he may lift the ball, without penalty, to determine whether it is unfit.

Before lifting the ball, the player must announce his intention to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play and mark the position of the ball. He may then lift and examine it, provided that he gives his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor an opportunity to examine the ball and observe the lifting and replacement. The ball must not be cleaned when lifted under Rule 5-3.

If the player fails to comply with all or any part of this procedure, or if he lifts the ball without having reason to believe that it has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.

If it is determined that the ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, the player may substitute another ball, placing it on the spot where the original ball lay. Otherwise, the original ball must be replaced. If a player substitutes a ball when not permitted and makes a stroke at the incorrectly substituted ball, he incurs the general penalty for a breach of Rule 5-3, but there is no additional penalty under this Rule or Rule 15-2.

If a ball breaks into pieces as a result of a stroke, the stroke is cancelled and the player must play a ball, without penalty, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played (see Rule 20-5).

*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 5-3:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
*If a player incurs the general penalty for a breach of Rule 5-3, there is no additional penalty under this Rule.

Note 1: If the opponent, marker or fellow-competitor wishes to dispute a claim of unfitness, he must do so before the player plays another ball.

Note 2: If the original lie of a ball to be placed or replaced has been altered, see Rule 20-3b.

(Cleaning ball lifted from putting green or under any other Rule – see Rule 21)
 
I identified my ball without the need to confer with my opponent, there was no need to examine my ball or lift and replace.
My identification marking were face up at me in the rough.
My ball did not break into pieces as a result of my stroke, it was already in pieces before I hit it...only I didn’t know it.
 
I identified my ball without the need to confer with my opponent, there was no need to examine my ball or lift and replace.
My identification marking were face up at me in the rough.
My ball did not break into pieces as a result of my stroke, it was already in pieces before I hit it...only I didn’t know it.

If a player has reason to believe his ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, he may lift the ball, without penalty, to determine whether it is unfit.

Before lifting the ball, the player must announce his intention to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play and mark the position of the ball.
He may then lift and examine it, provided that he gives his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor an opportunity to examine the ball and observe the lifting and replacement. The ball must not be cleaned when lifted under Rule 5-3.

Also note this:

If it is determined that the ball has become unfit for play during play of the hole being played, the player may substitute another ball
 
Simply you both did what was right with in the rules. Before you hit the shot out of the rough if you had reason to believe the mower might have cut or damaged your ball you have the right to inspect it. First you have to let your competitor know, it's a good idea for them to come and watch. Mark your spot and lift your ball and check it out. You can not clean the ball in any matter. If it' not damaged you place it back in its spot. IIRC if you replace a damaged ball you drop it. That part of the rule might have changed as I think it' dumb. You can place an undamaged ball but have to drop a new one.
Also the ball be used to replace the damaged ball must be the same brand and model.
 
I think the issue is the mower clearly moved your ball. If not, the chopped off part of the ball would be face up. However you are fine.

[paste:font size="4"]moved by an outside agency, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced.

Note: It is a question of fact whether a ball has been moved by an outside agency. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that an outside agency has moved the ball. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must play the ball as it lies or, if the ball is not found, proceed under Rule 27-1.
 
Any ball that is unfit for play due to being visible cut or scratched may be removed. You did the right thing. If the ball was merely scuffed, as sometimes happens on a cartpath, you may not change the ball until you finish the hole.
 
Also the ball be used to replace the damaged ball must be the same brand and model.

When changing balls, the player is permitted to substitute a ball of another brand or type unless the Committee has adopted the One Ball Condition of Competition (see Appendix I; Part C; Section 1c). This optional condition (usually referred to as ‘The One Ball Rule’) is generally adopted only in events that are limited to professional golfers or highly-skilled amateur golfers. Generally, this condition of competition is not adopted in club-level competitions.
 
There was nothing suspicious about my ball, not did I have any clue the mower had run over it.
The hole is a dog leg left, I hooked my ball over the trees and lost complete sight of it for a good 5 minutes, I had no idea a mower was anywhere near my ball.
 
I may be misunderstanding this, and while I don't doubt the cited rules verbiage, but what I think Zappa said was he didn't know if the mowers moved the ball, nor that it may have been damaged (since from the lie the damage could not be seen). After his subsequent shot, the damage to the ball is visible.Does he simply play a new ball from where his shot landed, or does try to find his previous lie and play a new ball from there?
 
I may be misunderstanding this, and while I don't doubt the cited rules verbiage, but what I think Zappa said was he didn't know if the mowers moved the ball, nor that it may have been damaged (since from the lie the damage could not be seen). After his subsequent shot, the damage to the ball is visible.Does he simply play a new ball from where his shot landed, or does try to find his previous lie and play a new ball from there?
He plays it from his current lie. There is no going back.
 
I may be misunderstanding this, and while I don't doubt the cited rules verbiage, but what I think Zappa said was he didn't know if the mowers moved the ball, nor that it may have been damaged (since from the lie the damage could not be seen). After his subsequent shot, the damage to the ball is visible.Does he simply play a new ball from where his shot landed, or does try to find his previous lie and play a new ball from there?
I understand exactly what he is saying. He is under no obligation to inspect his ball for damage at any time. So his previous stroke stands as played. Once he suspected or saw that it was unfit he needed to proceed under 5-3 which it sounds like he did with his opponent correctly.
 
He plays it from his current lie. There is no going back.
BUT…what if my golf ball was more severely damaged but I didn't realize it?
The ball I hit still went two hundred yards…what if the crack was more severe and it only ant 25 yards, are saying I couldn't go replay my shot?
I would have a huge problem with that!
 
BUT…what if my golf ball was more severely damaged but I didn't realize it?
The ball I hit still went two hundred yards…what if the crack was more severe and it only ant 25 yards, are saying I couldn't go replay my shot?
I would have a huge problem with that!
That's the rub of the green as they say.
Plus if you are playing at 7am this time of year you must be in warmer climate and I have zero sympathy of any golf misfortunes you might come across as my clubs are away for the winter.[banana]
 
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That's the rub of the green as they say.
Plus if you are playing at 7am this time of year you must be in warmer climate and I have zero sympathy of any golf misfortunes you might come across as my clubs are away for the winter.[banana]
This happened in early September, If I hit my ball and find it has no bottom half, I'm dropping a ball back where I hit from and hitting it again….lol
 
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BUT…what if my golf ball was more severely damaged but I didn't realize it?
The ball I hit still went two hundred yards…what if the crack was more severe and it only ant 25 yards, are saying I couldn't go replay my shot?
I would have a huge problem with that!

Under 5-3 if a ball falls apart as a result of a stroke then there is a do-over provision. I am going to assume that if the ball had part of the top off before you hit it, then more came off when you hit it and under 5-3 you can hit again. Nothing under 5-3 requires you to find all of the pieces.

If a ball breaks into pieces as a result of a stroke, the stroke is canceled and the player must play a ball, without penalty, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played (see Rule 20-5).
 
No, no, he has to hit it now. He has to play the ball as it lies. I had to hit it off of Frankenstein's fat foot, remember? Those are the rules.
 
Yes sir[/Q
I think you're good one the rules, since you didn't know the mower had done damage. You're also quite fortunate to have hit your 2nd shot with a damaged ball some 200 yards. Maybe the damage kept it on line--sliced your slice in half so to speak. Had you hit is only 25 yards and hadn't noticed the damage, you probably would have been SOL unless you saw a chunk fly off, in which case you could have had a do-over. Golf magazine has a monthly column on rules interpretations--you should write in and ask. It's a unique enough question that they might answer it for you in an upcoming issue.
 
Any ball that is unfit for play due to being visible cut or scratched may be removed. You did the right thing. If the ball was merely scuffed, as sometimes happens on a cartpath, you may not change the ball until you finish the hole.

You can't use a different ball after it's marked on the green?
 
This happened in early September, If I hit my ball and find it has no bottom half, I'm dropping a ball back where I hit from and hitting it again….lol

This isn't exactly a scenario you'd see at The Masters.
 
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