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Grant and Lambert - Out for the Season

War of attrition. Our depth is not great and as I have said on several occasions I think the depth issue will be worse next year when these seniors depart. Some kids will need to be force fed. Lambert was playing well but he is clearly more replaceable than Grant who just contributed in so many ways. I don't see one guy replacing him. Several will need to step up amongst the WRs, RB's and special teamers. Harris is most likely for an expanded role.

Regarding the hit on Grant. I have not seen a replay but remember thinking that from my vantage point it looked like the Iowa player (#14 I thought) came through forcefully with an arm swing at the neck and head area.
 
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All those who didn't acknowledge a talent issue, maybe now will understand. When you lose a guy like Grant and Lambert, this is where the lack of talent will become more evident.
 
yogalates said:
I understand basic math, dude. I just wanted to know if they rounded up.
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"rounded up" what? Once you enter a game, and time runs off the clock, it counts as a full game. He played 4 times. No MRS without a waiver.
 
AreYouNUTS said:
Excuse me? Based on what, exactly? Speaking the truth? Sorry but facts are facts. Our previous regime did a so-so-to-horrible job of recruiting, for 4 ears, and it's going to take some time for our depth to bounce back. Multiple injuries to starters in a single game, like yesterday, is a potentially huge problem for this team, unfortunately, not really sure what about discussing these facts is so "reprehensible." Unreal.
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NUTS--while I don't agree with "reprehensible," your beating the same old dead horse is tiresome. Do we really need to hear you spouting off about "quality" and "lack of talent" in every other post you make? Why don't you just say our players suck? And you know the Flood recruiting had multiple layers and issues, and there is not a person on this board who is not aware of it. So, maybe it is just time to move on and focus on moving forward. Some people still want to think positive and happy thoughts about the team players that signed on to play for Rutgers, and don't want a wet blanket thrown on them every time they post something positive. I can predict when someone makes a positive positive post, that you will be there to jump in and point out that we lack quality depth and talent and how wrong they are. I hope you don't take this as an affront or an insult. Just keep in mind that we don't need to be reminded about certain things. We are well aware of them.
 
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Knight Shift said:
NUTS--while I don't agree with "reprehensible," your beating the same old dead horse is tiresome. Do we really need to hear you spouting off about "quality" and "lack of talent" in every other post you make? Why don't you just say our players suck? And you know the Flood recruiting had multiple layers and issues, and there is not a person on this board who is not aware of it. So, maybe it is just time to move on and focus on moving forward. Some people still want to think positive and happy thoughts about the team players that signed on to play for Rutgers, and don't want a wet blanket thrown on them every time they post something positive. I can predict when someone makes a positive positive post, that you will be there to jump in and point out that we lack quality depth and talent and how wrong they are. I hope you don't take this as an affront or an insult. Just keep in mind that we don't need to be reminded about certain things. We are well aware of them.
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Did you see me start a thread about this topic? No. I'm posting in about 20 threads from the past 2 days. Maybe 2 of them have content as such DUE TO THE FACT that is is an important part where this program is at right now. Make sense to me. If it doesn't to you, sorry, but you don't have to read my posts Shift.

It's like the economy tanking under President "X." President "Y" takes over well, thanks to X, it's gonna take him a few years to get the right plans into place and have them take effect, agree? Does X NOT get the blame? Is it not a major talking point for a couple of years?Of course he does and of course it is! [cheers]
 
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actually the rule (which is FAR from clear) is:

Medical Hardship Requirements:

To be eligible for a medical hardship waiver, a student-athlete has to meet the following criteria:

- The student-athlete must suffer the injury during one of their four seasons of college competition or during the senior year of high school.

- The injury must be incapacitating. That means it must be a season-ending injury.

- The injury must occur prior to the start of the second half of the season.

- The student-athlete must not have competed in more than 30% of the season or three contests, whichever is greater.

"of the season" and "in 3 contests" are interesting wording - and leave a window open (for a non- expert like me...)

30% of a season is 3.6 games... he competed in 3.49 games...

If he wants to come back -- he has an argument (and if he gets a good lawyer like Mauk, he will almost certainly get a waiver).... (but, I personally don't think he comes back if he any chance of making it to an NFL camp next year)....



sad.... sad... sad... I wish him all the best...
 
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rufeelinit said:
War of attrition. Our depth is not great and as I have said on several occasions I think the depth issue will be worse next year when these seniors depart. Some kids will need to be force fed. Lambert was playing well but he is clearly more replaceable than Grant who just contributed in so many ways. I don't see one guy replacing him. Several will need to step up amongst the WRs, RB's and special teamers. Harris is most likely for an expanded role.

Regarding the hit on Grant. I have not seen a replay but remember thinking that from my vantage point it looked like the Iowa player (#14 I thought) came through forcefully with an arm swing at the neck and head area.
Click to expand...
The replay is posted on NJ.com
 
RUfromSoCal? said:
actually the rule (which is FAR from clear) is:

Medical Hardship Requirements:

To be eligible for a medical hardship waiver, a student-athlete has to meet the following criteria:

- The student-athlete must suffer the injury during one of their four seasons of college competition or during the senior year of high school.

- The injury must be incapacitating. That means it must be a season-ending injury.

- The injury must occur prior to the start of the second half of the season.

- The student-athlete must not have competed in more than 30% of the season or three contests, whichever is greater.

"of the season" and "in 3 contests" are interesting wording - and leave a window open (for a non- expert like me...)

30% of a season is 3.6 games... he competed in 3.49 games...

If he wants to come back -- he has an argument (and if he gets a good lawyer like Mauk, he will almost certainly get a waiver).... (but, I personally don't think he comes back if he any chance of making it to an NFL camp next year)....



sad.... sad... sad... I wish him all the best...
Click to expand...


Im not sure why people are struggling with this.

He participated in 4 games. That is more than 3 contests, and more than 30% of the season (3.6 games). Once you play in a single play, you participated in the whole game. He would need a waiver.
 
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Ole Cabbagehead said:
Im not sure why people are struggling with this.

He participated in 4 games. That is more than 3 contests, and more than 30% of the season (3.6 games). Once you play in a single play, you participated in the whole game. He would need a waiver.
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Yes, he would need a waiver... but he has an argument for a waiver... that is what people are discussing. there is unquestionably a "grey area" in the medical redshirt, 5th year rules... that is all people seem to be discussing.
 
I think he can get a medical redshirt. These are are direct quotes from the rule:

14.2.4 (c) "In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport."

"14.2.4.3.6.2 Fraction in Percent Computation. Any computation of the percent limitation that results in a fractional portion of a contest or date of competition shall be rounded to the next whole number (e.g., 30 percent of a 29-game basketball schedule—8.7 games—shall be considered nine games). (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/07)"

So, 30% of 12 is 3.6 games. Round up to 4 games. That is greater than 3 games. Under rule 14.2.4, Grant participated in 4 contests. The Rule says that he must NOT have participated in MORE THAN FOUR CONTESTS (using the 30%).

He should be able to get a red shirt not problem. Did I miss something? Should I call Ben Mauk.
 
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AreYouNUTS said:
HUH? He's chasing Grant down, trying to make a play, nothing wrong with what he did there. Just an unfortunate incident as he stepped on Grant's ankle.
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He attempted a clothesline and missed. Even it he hit him, that officiating crew wouldn't have thrown a flag. They couldn't find their asses with both hands.
 
Ole Cabbagehead said:
Im not sure why people are struggling with this.

He participated in 4 games. That is more than 3 contests, and more than 30% of the season (3.6 games). Once you play in a single play, you participated in the whole game. He would need a waiver.
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Respectfully disagree. See my post above. 3.6 Rounds up to 4. That means he can play in no more than 4 games, and still get a medical redshirt. He played in 4, not more than 4. He should be good.
 
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Injury will cost Grant big bucks. He relies on his shiftness. Long recovery if Achilles. Will affect draftability. Football is a risky business; not for Rhodes scholar types.
 
yogalates said:
3.6 (30% of 12).
Click to expand...

ooops lol my bad...I owe a beer...so embarrassed....anyway they still don't "round up." It's 30% or 3 games I was mixing up my #'s sorry:

Medical Hardship Requirements
To be eligible for a medical hardship waiver, a student-athlete has to meet the following criteria:

  • The student-athlete must suffer the injury during one of their four seasons of college competition or during the senior year of high school.
  • The injury must be incapacitating. That means it must be a season-ending injury.
  • The injury must occur prior to the start of the second half of the season.
  • The student-athlete must not have competed in more than 30% of the season or three contests, whichever is greater.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm
 
Anyone else check the date to see if it was 2006 again and we're discussing endlessly if Shawn Tucker can get a medical redshirt?
 
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Knight Shift said:
Respectfully disagree. See my post above. 3.6 Rounds up to 4. That means he can play in no more than 4 games, and still get a medical redshirt. He played in 4, not more than 4. He should be good.
Click to expand...

I read what you posted the same. I misunderstood the rule.
 
14.2.4 (c) "In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport."

How many games did Grant participate in? 4 (greater than 3)

4 is what % of 12? 33.3% (greater than 30%)

He doesn't qualify without a waiver.
 
AreYouNUTS said:
ooops lol my bad...I owe a beer...so embarrassed....anyway they still don't "round up." It's 30% or 3 games I was mixing up my #'s sorry:

Medical Hardship Requirements
To be eligible for a medical hardship waiver, a student-athlete has to meet the following criteria:

  • The student-athlete must suffer the injury during one of their four seasons of college competition or during the senior year of high school.
  • The injury must be incapacitating. That means it must be a season-ending injury.
  • The injury must occur prior to the start of the second half of the season.
  • The student-athlete must not have competed in more than 30% of the season or three contests, whichever is greater.

http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm
Click to expand...

They DO ROUND UP. See my post above, with quotes directly from NCAA Rules.
NCAA bylaws found here http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D110.pdf
 
AreYouNUTS said:
14.2.4 (c) "In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport."

How many games did Grant participate in? 4 (greater than 3)

4 is what % of 12? 33.3% (greater than 30%)

He doesn't qualify without a waiver.
Click to expand...

That's not the way the rule works. You did not read the "14.2.4.3.6.2 Fraction in Percent Computation. Any computation of the percent limitation that results in a fractional portion of a contest or date of competition shall be rounded to the next whole number (e.g., 30 percent of a 29-game basketball schedule—8.7 games—shall be considered nine games). (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/07)"
 
Knight Shift said:
That's not the way the rule works. You did not read the "14.2.4.3.6.2 Fraction in Percent Computation. Any computation of the percent limitation that results in a fractional portion of a contest or date of competition shall be rounded to the next whole number (e.g., 30 percent of a 29-game basketball schedule—8.7 games—shall be considered nine games). (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/07)"
Click to expand...

Okay now I see where it's coming from; weird. Since when does 3.33 round "up" lol...so you get to play in 1/3rd of the season. That's a lot. I'm surprised.
 
rufeelinit said:
War of attrition. Our depth is not great and as I have said on several occasions I think the depth issue will be worse next year when these seniors depart. Some kids will need to be force fed. Lambert was playing well but he is clearly more replaceable than Grant who just contributed in so many ways. I don't see one guy replacing him. Several will need to step up amongst the WRs, RB's and special teamers. Harris is most likely for an expanded role.

Regarding the hit on Grant. I have not seen a replay but remember thinking that from my vantage point it looked like the Iowa player (#14 I thought) came through forcefully with an arm swing at the neck and head area.
Click to expand...
We are definitely not at the point we need to be depth wise however this staff has already played more young linemen and secondary players in any given season...if Hamilton is also out then we will basically be using 8-10 redshirt frosh and sophs / juniors on the D-line...exactly the same with those D backs...we will be young but not totally devoid of some talent...the linebackers are new and they are now learning on the job...the key is in recruiting and coaching them up...How many STARTING 2 Deep seniors do we have ?...Grant ... Patton...Agudosi...Tsimis ...Archdiacono...Denman...Muller...Nelson...Hamilton...Pinnix Odrick ...Lambert ...Cioffi...Please add the others which have been major contributors thus far...I believe we have only just begun to see the use of underclassmen whether due to injury or not....After watching the game and I'm a New Jersey player I think I want to play for this guy.
 
Knight Shift said:
Not 100% sure on that, and I could be wrong, but I ran it by my wife, who has a Master's in statistics, and for once, she said that I was right.
Click to expand...

Gotcha!

I think I'm actually working too hard for once in my life. I need like 3-4 straight really solid nights of sleep lol!
 
AreYouNUTS said:
As I stated elsewhere - unfortunately - our lack of quality depth is going to start rearing its ugly head (even more). Many of us never expected much to begin with this year, with quality depth at most position groups being one of the reasons, so I'm not going to get myself too uptight about how it will affect the team itself going forward. It is what it is right now and a damn shame for these 2.
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Guys need to step up .....that is a tough thing but coach was well aware of these possible problems.
 
RUBOB72 said:
Guys need to step up .....that is a tough thing but coach was well aware of these possible problems.
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No question but you can only work with the tools you've got. There are plenty of things for us to watch this year and I think most of us understand this. Hopefully the team rallies and still plays balls-out-hard the next 8.
 
A)Really hope these guys can get a redshirt(if they want)

B)Where is Turay?
 
Might get laughed off the board, but if we make a bowl are we talking 4/13 and less than 30%?

Never mind I needed a calculator
 
RU-05 said:
A)Really hope these guys can get a redshirt(if they want)

B)Where is Turay?
Click to expand...

He was in for 2 plays.

First one he got caught up on the line trying to rush the passer. He made a really nice inside move on the RT but ran right into 2 interior Iowa OL and a RU DL and got no further

In the second, he appeared to be the reason Ash had to burn a TO in the 2nd half. He went in but no one came out (12 on the field). Ash was really giving him an earful on the sideline afterward.
 
AreYouNUTS said:
14.2.4 (c) "In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport."

How many games did Grant participate in? 4 (greater than 3)

4 is what % of 12? 33.3% (greater than 30%)

He doesn't qualify without a waiver.
Click to expand...
I believe if your conference has a championship game even if you don't play in it, it's counted towards total games. Bowl games do not count. I know for a fact it's done in wrestling and basketball. So if it holds true for football(don't see why it would be different) it's actually 13 games. That would be 3.9 games so I don't see how they could round down. Then four games works out to just under 31%.

Be pretty sh*tty to tell a kid sorry you missed it by a fraction of a percentage point. It's a subjective rule and a new one was recently implemented to not be such douches to kids who would miss a once and a life time opportunity due to an injury.
 
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knightfan7 said:
He was in for 2 plays.

First one he got caught up on the line trying to rush the passer. He made a really nice inside move on the RT but ran right into 2 interior Iowa OL and a RU DL and got no further

In the second, he appeared to be the reason Ash had to burn a TO in the 2nd half. He went in but no one came out (12 on the field). Ash was really giving him an earful on the sideline afterward.
Click to expand...
Oh wow, missed all that. Good news. Our D-line is solid, but I thought the lack of quickness stands out. With Lambert's injury we need Turay all that much more.
 
Knight Shift said:
I think he can get a medical redshirt. These are are direct quotes from the rule:

14.2.4 (c) "In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport."
"14.2.4.3.6.2 Fraction in Percent Computation. Any computation of the percent limitation that results in a fractional portion of a contest or date of competition shall be rounded to the next whole number (e.g., 30 percent of a 29-game basketball schedule—8.7 games—shall be considered nine games). (Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 4/26/07)"

So, 30% of 12 is 3.6 games. Round up to 4 games. That is greater than 3 games. Under rule 14.2.4, Grant participated in 4contests. The Rule says that he must NOT have participated in MORE THAN FOUR CONTESTS (using the 30%).

He should be able to get a red shirt not problem. Did I miss something? Should I call Ben Mauk.
Click to expand...


Okay, I have read all these opinions on how to calculate this and I like yours the best so I vote that you are correct. Me, I haven't a clue. But that shouldn't surprise anyone.
 
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