Had to defend Coach Pike twice -- Christmas Eve and Christmas dinner.

[RUHoopsguard]

Someone in the parking lot after church Monday night saw my Block R on my car and my height, so came up uninvited to ask me about our basketball program and specifically about Coach Pike.
I said "Merry Christmas, but would be happy to discuss after mass this Sunday". Strange, no

Then last night at my in-laws, my better-half's nephew you asked me why I go to RU hoops games and why was I so optimistic. I explained he inherited and took an underfunded program and job when very few others would have that courage and work-ethic, etc. He then stumped me and asked me who the other candidates were. Fortunately, his Dad jumped in and said that the program has a stability that has been lacking for a decade--then changed the subject!

Who were the other candidates? Not that it matters, I belong to the "I like Coach Pike" club, and he will certainly leave the job in a better place than he found it--but who were the other--if any candidates that Hobbs or search firm considered ? Couldn't find any when googling.

Belated Merry Christmas, and Happy, healthy 2019 to you all.

 

[dpwhite]

Danny Hurley said no.

The other rumored candidates were Mike Lonergan and Tim Cluess.

But I am a huge fan of Pikiell and expect he's the right guy at the right time.

 

[RocktheRac]

I like Pike

 

[bowlgoal]

Most people outside of the diehard basketball fans have no idea what’s happening with our program now. In fact, if you did know about Corey Sanders and that he left, most would think we probably would have fallen apart this year.

The buzz in the state doesn’t happen until the team gets to post season. It’s been a long time. As a close follower of our program, I’m more excited about Rutgers basketball then I’ve ever been. We have never had the kind of money to build facilities like the practice center and that in itself is going to light up the recruiting trail. We have a coach now who is recruiting top players with size. Don’t underestimate the impact of a 6-7 point guard with passing skills like Mulcahy. And if we land Mickey Pearson, we finally have a true small forward. Rutgers is a growth stock showing lossses but one that’s going to pop as soon as next season when we have our first few quarters of profitability. Buy all you can right now.

 

[RUtix4me]

Lonergan would have been a fine choice to set RU back another 10 years, surprised we didn’t get him...

 

[dpwhite]

Lonergan would have been a fine choice to set RU back another 10 years, surprised we didn’t get him...

Yeah, talk about a bullet dodged.

 

[dconifer]

Those don't really sound like attacks on Pikiell to me. Just a lack of knowledge that the program is trending up.

We have a current post on our premium board titled "Fire Him Now" with triple-digit number of likes....

 

[Upstream]

my better-half's nephew you asked me why I go to RU hoops games

Your nephew, who I assume is a generation younger than you, had the gall to ask you why you go to Rutgers basketball games? You should have responded, "To waste the money that I'm not leaving you in my will."

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think we will be in a better position to see the slope of the trend line in a few months. In the past 4 coaching regimes we are at the exact spot where the perceived direction of the program started to trend the other way.

Is there a path over the next 2-3 years to get out of the bottom 4 of our conference. Right now I am having a tough time seeing it. I think we have the right coach. I just think we are still a long way off and the trend line of the program is positively slope, but not the angle most want.

 

[SJScarlet]

Those don't really sound like attacks on Pikiell to me. Just a lack of knowledge that the program is trending up.

We have a current post on our premium board titled "Fire Him Now" with triple-digit number of likes....

Just wait until January 5 at around 9pm!

 

[Mr Magoo]

To me, a totally fair and modest goal in year three of his program, is to finally finish in at least 13th place in a 14-team league. If this doesn’t happen, barring key injuries, then it’s pretty obvious he is out-couching no one.

 

[Johnny Biggs]

When you say a program is trending up generally you have wins, post season play to use as proof. Until that happens the casual fan will continue to be stumped.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Lonergan would have been a fine choice to set RU back another 10 years, surprised we didn’t get him...

Turns out the Lonergan scandal seems to have been manufactured. He was working internally to out the fact that the AD was a pervert and inappropriate with some of the student athletes. And the AD got in fornt an created a scandal where there should not have been one. I think it was deadspin that had the story.

I had thought he would have been a great hire too. Happy with Pike but he was my candidate based on his UVT tenure and friends who knew him there.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

To me, a totally fair and modest goal in year three of his program, is to finally finish in at least 13th place in a 14-team league. If this doesn’t happen, barring key injuries, then it’s pretty obvious he is out-couching no one.

still not about W and L to me. I want to see a path where progress will be made. The path almost has to include contributions from a lot of the guys that didn't play in the end game vs. Columbia.

 

[Kbee3]

When you say a program is trending up generally you have wins, post season play to use as proof. Until that happens the casual fan will continue to be stumped.

The Columbia game didn't help matters.

 

[rubaseball78]

The Columbia game didn't help matters.

Didn't help but that's a game we would have lost previous years.

 

[bowlgoal]

The Columbia game didn't help matters.

The Columbia game was a result of awful shooting and we didn't take bad shots either; they just didn't fall. Same with Seton Hall and Fordham. We have good shooters who are just in a bad stretch right now. This happens to most teams and we just have to work through it. The sky isn't falling and we are getting good minutes from guys like Carter and McConnell. When others like Harper and Mathis step up and Kiss has a hot shooting night; we will upset some teams. Relax and enjoy the ride.

 

[bowlgoal]

Didn't help but that's a game we would have lost previous years.

That's correct and that's the difference. Big 10 team's find a way to win a game like Columbia and we did. We needed the win and got it. You don't win too many games shooting 2-19 from three point range so that was actually some comeback and the reason to be optimistic about the rest of the year. We simply need to shoot better,

 

[RUSK97]

Turns out the Lonergan scandal seems to have been manufactured. He was working internally to out the fact that the AD was a pervert and inappropriate with some of the student athletes. And the AD got in fornt an created a scandal where there should not have been one. I think it was deadspin that had the story.

I had thought he would have been a great hire too. Happy with Pike but he was my candidate based on his UVT tenure and friends who knew him there.

The AD liked to have extracurricular activities with players, one in particular. It was more smokescreen than anything.

 

[RUSK97]

I am not a fan of Pikiell. I don’t think he can take us to the next level (meaning back to the Big Dance), yet it is undeniable he has improved the team. The team plays harder. It plays solid defense. There are multiple players on the team who have potential. In a few years this team might be good enough to qualify for the NIT. There’s little doubt this team would defeat an Eddie Jordan team. This team is trending up, but to the casual observer (non-fan who’s not a long-time suffering RU fanatic) it’s hard to see what the excitement is all about.

 

[rubaseball78]

I am not a fan of Pikiell. I don’t think he can take us to the next level (meaning back to the Big Dance), yet it is undeniable he has improved the team. The team plays harder. It plays solid defense. There are multiple players on the team who have potential. In a few years this team might be good enough to qualify for the NIT. There’s little doubt this team would defeat an Eddie Jordan team. This team is trending up, but to the casual observer (non-fan who’s not a long-time suffering RU fanatic) it’s hard to see what the excitement is all about.

Since he took Stonybrook to the tournament he has already shown he can do it. What about his coaching leads you to conclude he will not be successful?

 

[RUSK97]

Since he took Stonybrook to the tournament he has already shown he can do it. What about his coaching leads you to conclude he will not be successful?

I think the path to the tourney at SB is significantly easier than at RU. Put together two solid players and a supporting cast, catch a down year in the league and you can win the America East and a bid to the tourney. Do the same at Rutgers and you’ll be lucky to go 0.250 in league. I think Pike is a decent coach. But he’s not shown me anything superb in his recruiting classes, nor has he shown me that he can develop an average player into something extraordinary, nor has he shown me schemes that can elevate the team. In year 3, there cannot be any question whether RU should dominate Columbia or Maine.

 

[bowlgoal]

I think the path to the tourney at SB is significantly easier than at RU. Put together two solid players and a supporting cast, catch a down year in the league and you can win the America East and a bid to the tourney. Do the same at Rutgers and you’ll be lucky to go 0.250 in league. I think Pike is a decent coach. But he’s not shown me anything superb in his recruiting classes, nor has he shown me that he can develop an average player into something extraordinary, nor has he shown me schemes that can elevate the team. In year 3, there cannot be any question whether RU should dominate Columbia or Maine.

There's no guarantees but your analysis based on 2 seasons and 11 games talking about his recruiting classes and ability to develop players is very difficult to take seriously. You want to judge a coach on player development who has just Thiam and Omuyuri for 2 seasons plus and Geo in year 2? What are you even talking about? Pikiell comes from the Jim Calhoun coaching tree and he's had a little more then just some success. He took SB from the basement of college basketball to a team winning more than 20 games a season in his last 5 years and SB is far from an attractive program. He came in to take over an Eddie Jordan program that was depleted in every area with the exception of Corey Sanders. He developed Sanders into a much better player in two years, found an underrated Geo who is slowly developing into a strong guard in the Big 10; landed Omuryi who has strengthened by leaps and bounds and host of other players who are brand new to the program including Kiss, Mathis and Harper.

Pikiell has the work ethic to turn the corner here at Rutgers. As I said, the masses don't get convinced until we go to post season and the NIT will come before the NCAAs, but we are still a year away from talking about post season. The excitement is not all hype. If you've met Pikiell, you see a guy who has a great personalty and why his players love him. Give it more time before judging is all I'm saying and if you watch the building process; you'll see some wins that most do not expect. There will be bumps and bruises along the way but there will also be wins.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

There has to be massive improvement in our players to even have a post season conversation for next year. I'd love to be wrong, but I think we are a long way away from a post season squad. I see a ton of essential "win with" pieces, but not any "win because" of. Need to see quantum leaps from players like Mathis, Johnson, and Harper.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He developed Sanders into a much better player in two years

DEVIL'S ADVOCATE......

How about Freeman. Took him 2/3 thru the season to attempt to reign him in. Add to the fact he made the wrong guy captain last year.

 

[bowlgoal]

There has to be massive improvement in our players to even have a post season conversation for next year. I'd love to be wrong, but I think we are a long way away from a post season squad. I see a ton of win with pieces, but not any win because of. Need to see quantum leaps from players like Mathis, Johnson, and Harper.

Those are two 4 star freshman and a 3 star redshirt freshmen playing for the very first time against this caliber of competition. In two Bjg 10 games including a pretty experienced Michigan State team and road game at Wisconsin; we pretty much held our own. I’m sure there will be improvement next year but “Massive improvement” sounds like we are getting blown out in football to Ohio State. Yes, these teams are very talented but we are playing tight games and there are 18 more conference games on the schedule. Can we at least see the first year progression before we rate how massive the improvement needs to be?

 

[bowlgoal]

He developed Sanders into a much better player in two years

DEVIL'S ADVOCATE......

How about Freeman. Took him 2/3 thru the season to attempt to reign him in. Add to the fact he made the wrong guy captain last year.

I think you’re right on freeman. He’s an Eddie Jordan recruit and interestingly enough, I think pikiell made him a captain for a reason; to turn him around from an attitude standpoint. I have my own opinion on freeman. Great rebounder but forced way too many shots and wasted a lot of offensive possessions. I think freeman might have been difficult to coach but Pikiell got a lot out of him. I don’t know that for sure but this seasons team is much better from top to bottom. And we will be even better with a year of experience.


I don’t have a crystal ball and it could take longer than expected. But I believe kids like playing for Pikiell and as we go along, recruiting will get better and better. I’m a lot more confident in basketball then I am in football.

 

[Fzacsattac]

Someone in the parking lot after church Monday night saw my Block R on my car and my height, so came up uninvited to ask me about our basketball program and specifically about Coach Pike.
I said "Merry Christmas, but would be happy to discuss after mass this Sunday". Strange, no

Then last night at my in-laws, my better-half's nephew you asked me why I go to RU hoops games and why was I so optimistic. I explained he inherited and took an underfunded program and job when very few others would have that courage and work-ethic, etc. He then stumped me and asked me who the other candidates were. Fortunately, his Dad jumped in and said that the program has a stability that has been lacking for a decade--then changed the subject!

Who were the other candidates? Not that it matters, I belong to the "I like Coach Pike" club, and he will certainly leave the job in a better place than he found it--but who were the other--if any candidates that Hobbs or search firm considered ? Couldn't find any when googling.

Belated Merry Christmas, and Happy, healthy 2019 to you all.

Huh? Lol

 

[Mr Magoo]

There's no guarantees but your analysis based on 2 seasons and 11 games talking about his recruiting classes and ability to develop players is very difficult to take seriously. You want to judge a coach on player development who has just Thiam and Omuyuri for 2 seasons plus and Geo in year 2? What are you even talking about? Pikiell comes from the Jim Calhoun coaching tree and he's had a little more then just some success. He took SB from the basement of college basketball to a team winning more than 20 games a season in his last 5 years and SB is far from an attractive program. He came in to take over an Eddie Jordan program that was depleted in every area with the exception of Corey Sanders. He developed Sanders into a much better player in two years, found an underrated Geo who is slowly developing into a strong guard in the Big 10; landed Omuryi who has strengthened by leaps and bounds and host of other players who are brand new to the program including Kiss, Mathis and Harper.

Pikiell has the work ethic to turn the corner here at Rutgers. As I said, the masses don't get convinced until we go to post season and the NIT will come before the NCAAs, but we are still a year away from talking about post season. The excitement is not all hype. If you've met Pikiell, you see a guy who has a great personalty and why his players love him. Give it more time before judging is all I'm saying and if you watch the building process; you'll see some wins that most do not expect. There will be bumps and bruises along the way but there will also be wins.

Developed Sanders into a much better player? I missed that. Except for three games at the Garden, he was almost the identical player that came here when he left...including missing planes, etc.

 

[RUich]

Living in central NY (Cuse country), I have decided to not wear any RU gear around. I did enjoy their angst when we were winning football games with Schiano, but why set yourself up for possible derision?

 

[Mr Magoo]

There has to be massive improvement in our players to even have a post season conversation for next year. I'd love to be wrong, but I think we are a long way away from a post season squad. I see a ton of essential "win with" pieces, but not any "win because" of. Need to see quantum leaps from players like Mathis, Johnson, and Harper.

Agree with this right now. There is a long way to go this season but originally thought we might be able to sniff the NIT next year. It’s starting to look like we have the makings of a .500 team next year. The depth is there and that’s key but I worry about the “upside” of some of our players.

We can’t conitually put out a B1G lineup where we are at a disadvantage at almost every position and expect to win.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

In order to have a timeline on improvement, by Year 4, the bulk of your roster who has been recruited, should be juniors and seniors, not sophomores or freshmen.

We didn't or aren't buying players to rebuild like most programs do, so the path is different or clearer to me that it will take longer. I would like to pick up 2 Top 75 to 100 kids every year and move forward, but that's not where RU is as a school and program/staff.

We aren't starting with players that were leftover at a B1G level like the rest of the league does when they change coaching staffs.....it's not a basketball discussion as much as it's both a basketball and talent discussion....Everyone else in the conference has 5 to 8 4* kids spread out among 4 to 5 recruiting classes.

There are fans that are going to point to other programs around the country that are recruiting better than RU on paper, but it's very tough in some leagues to leapfrog 4 to 5 teams, which is what fans believe is instantly supposed to happen.....I am fine with raising the expectations, but there is an argument that every staff in the B1G has a proven commodity or a head coach that has won at their prior stop or stops.....and most everyone recruits talented players and has learned the value of player development as well.

Once we catch up on the talent piece (After 2020 recruiting), then the 2 years after that is when you cannot make the talent argument as the primary issue. Then the discussion changes from talent to scheme/gameplan/style and whether what Pike and the staff are implementing, can be sustained or continue to grow.

I just haven't seen any rebuilds completed in 3 or 4 years that didn't already start with a solid base of players intact when the coaches started. Whether it's Purdue, Minnesota, Penn State, Nebraska or Northwestern, most if not all were better than where RU was with their prior coaching staffs. Fans are looking for instant results and other schools to be standing flat-footed while RU rebuilds....unfortunately, it's not that easy in the B1G so any skeptical fan sees gamedays with juniors and seniors vs frosh and sophs and wonders if our underclassmen will be better or improve enough to be difference makers. That's a very fair and legitimate question and concern, but I'm still under the belief that with the practice facility and improvement on the roster in the next 2 years, offers RU an opportunity to jump up and close the gaps.

 

[rutger80]

IMHO, the basketball program that Pikes took over 2+ years ago, was perhaps equivalent to what Schiano took over in 2001.
Someone would have to do a lot of research to find a basketball equivalent of the state of program and what was required to build it (without paying players)
Just as an FYI, I did a little research....took Jim Calhoun 9 years to get Northeastern to the NCAAs.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Those are two 4 star freshman and a 3 star redshirt freshmen playing for the very first time against this caliber of competition. In two Bjg 10 games including a pretty experienced Michigan State team and road game at Wisconsin; we pretty much held our own. I’m sure there will be improvement next year but “Massive improvement” sounds like we are getting blown out in football to Ohio State. Yes, these teams are very talented but we are playing tight games and there are 18 more conference games on the schedule. Can we at least see the first year progression before we rate how massive the improvement needs to be?

Different tiers..
3-17
7-13
10-10
12-8
14+wins

i can see this unit next year making the jump to the next tier, but still far far away from 10-10 or 12-8....have tough time envisioning core getting to .500.

I am fine with that

 

[bowlgoal]

Those are two 4 star freshman and a 3 star redshirt freshmen playing for the very first time against this caliber of competition. In two Bjg 10 games including a pretty experienced Michigan State team and road game at Wisconsin; we pretty much held our own. I’m sure there will be improvement next year but “Massive improvement” sounds like we are getting blown out in football to Ohio State. Yes, these teams are very talented but we are playing tight games and there are 18 more conference games on the schedule. Can we at least see the first year progression before we rate how massive the improvement needs to be?

Different tiers..
3-17
7-13
10-10
12-8
14+wins

i can see this unit next year making the jump to the next tier, but still far far away from 10-10 or 12-8....have tough time envisioning core getting to .500.

I am fine with that

I know it seems difficult to see and it’s definitely not easy. Osu, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin all recruit and reload year after year. It starts with winning the home games. Still nothing easy.

 

[RUHoopsguard]

"I just haven't seen any rebuilds completed in 3 or 4 years that didn't already start with a solid base of players intact when the coaches started. Whether it's Purdue, Minnesota, Penn State, Nebraska or Northwestern, most if not all were better than where RU was with their prior coaching staffs. Fans are looking for instant results and other schools to be standing flat-footed while RU rebuilds....unfortunately, it's not that easy in the B1G so any skeptical fan sees gamedays with juniors and seniors vs frosh and sophs and wonders if our underclassmen will be better or improve enough to be difference makers. That's a very fair and legitimate question and concern, but I'm still under the belief that with the practice facility and improvement on the roster in the next 2 years, offers RU an opportunity to jump up and close the gaps."

You raise great points that I understand @NewJerseyHawk until I get to your last paragraph above.
People are always throwing Nevada-Reno, Vanderbilt, and even Florida State in my eyes about how you should see teams improve after 2 years of a new staff.

Another question that I don't have the answer to: Is "I too like Pike" constrained by admissions limiting # of guys he can recruit that are Jucos/or transfers in general because of some over-hand about prior bad APR years ?

Thanks to all the helpful replies!