that's your right to disagree but I have no clue what your end game is...so RU goes 12-20 or 13-19 next year and then what
I'd like to see Eddie get another year
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that's your right to disagree but I have no clue what your end game is...so RU goes 12-20 or 13-19 next year and then what
The end game is to give him a chance to coach the full compliment of his players rather than blowing everything up again after a mere 3 years when everyone was saying it would take much longer than that anyway....its as simple as that
Pulled the following from a Dec 6th post. I know very little about Sport Reverence's SRS, but it is good as anything for a simple/rough comparison over the last 15 years:
For comparison, both St John's and Boston College are having historically bad years for the bottom of their respective conferences and they are ranked right around 170.
Certainly this year's team is an anomaly with all the injuries, but just what the impact is from said injuries is anybody's guess. Similarly, the impact of the Rice scandal after three years must still linger, but to what effect?
My opinion after watching all the aspects (Xs & Os, recruiting, staff and personnel management) of EJ over the last three years is that his top end is only good enough to get us to a "respectable" bottom of conference (say 130ish range). Unless the folks making the decisions are seeing something better than I am, I don't see why they would not cut him loose after the season. I could see hanging on if he could deliver Rice type seasons (90ish ranking) but I don't think EJ can do that.
Everybody here wants EJ to succeed but many if not most are convinced no amount of time will result in even marginal success. There is always a great danger when you hire a head coach without any college head coaching experience. The NBA is a very different animal than college and EJ had a questionable NBA head coach resume with some limited success at Washington and great failure at Philly. Were it my decision I would end the grand experiment, thank EJ for his efforts, and move on.
Sports Reference SRS (Simplified Rating System) which attempts to normalize for strength of schedule. Certainly not perfect but you will get the idea:
2002 4.52 (93rd of 321) Waters
2003 5.09 (100th of 325)
2004 8.53 (68th of 326)
2005 3.32 (113th of 326)
2006 8.00 (69th of 326)
2007 -2.25 (164th of 325) Hill
2008 -1.57 (163rd of 328)
2009 1.07 (130th of 330)
2010 1.29 (134th of 334)
2011 7.88 (77th of 345) Rice
2012 5.42 (99th of 344)
2013 5.96 (88th of 347)
2014 -0.29 (162nd of 351) Jordan
2015 0.23 (148th of 351)
2016 -3.59 (211th of 351 Dec 6) Now 258!!
2002 4.52 (93rd of 321) Waters
2003 5.09 (100th of 325)
2004 8.53 (68th of 326)
2005 3.32 (113th of 326)
2006 8.00 (69th of 326)
2007 -2.25 (164th of 325) Hill
2008 -1.57 (163rd of 328)
2009 1.07 (130th of 330)
2010 1.29 (134th of 334)
2011 7.88 (77th of 345) Rice
2012 5.42 (99th of 344)
2013 5.96 (88th of 347)
2014 -0.29 (162nd of 351) Jordan
2015 0.23 (148th of 351)
2016 -3.59 (211th of 351 Dec 6) Now 258!!
For comparison, both St John's and Boston College are having historically bad years for the bottom of their respective conferences and they are ranked right around 170.
Certainly this year's team is an anomaly with all the injuries, but just what the impact is from said injuries is anybody's guess. Similarly, the impact of the Rice scandal after three years must still linger, but to what effect?
My opinion after watching all the aspects (Xs & Os, recruiting, staff and personnel management) of EJ over the last three years is that his top end is only good enough to get us to a "respectable" bottom of conference (say 130ish range). Unless the folks making the decisions are seeing something better than I am, I don't see why they would not cut him loose after the season. I could see hanging on if he could deliver Rice type seasons (90ish ranking) but I don't think EJ can do that.
Everybody here wants EJ to succeed but many if not most are convinced no amount of time will result in even marginal success. There is always a great danger when you hire a head coach without any college head coaching experience. The NBA is a very different animal than college and EJ had a questionable NBA head coach resume with some limited success at Washington and great failure at Philly. Were it my decision I would end the grand experiment, thank EJ for his efforts, and move on.
I've seen enough. Eddie and his staff don't have what it takes to get it done. I want to start build
I agree that the product will be probably really awful and respect your feelings about having to watch another roster like in Rice's first season. However, Eddie has clearly shown me and most people that he is not capable of building the program and I don't want to delay the inevitable. He can't possibly recruit off a 33 game conference losing streak or whatever. IMO, we need to bite the bullet and get started on the build. If Hobbs cannot find a way to replace Eddie, Hobbs and Rutgers athletics will have a credibility problem and the 4 month era of good feelings will end abruptly.
OP just making his point...don't kill him.
IF....
1. Eddie hires coaches that he trusts and USES
2. There is a dramatic change in strength and conditioning
3. a huge change in direction in the importance of defense
4. Sanders and Freeman are still with us
5. 1 or 2 of the incoming players are good enough to make the 2 deep
6. Williams improves perimeter shot
7. Nigel Johnson is 1/2 as good as Eddie says
8. We stay healthy
If all these things occur I'd like Jordan to stay and we will see progress. Personally I don't want to see Jordan get the chance. Now the chances of these all occurring are the same as Savon Huggins rushing for 2,000 yards in a season in the NFL.
IF....
1. Eddie hires coaches that he trusts and USES
2. There is a dramatic change in strength and conditioning
3. a huge change in direction in the importance of defense
4. Sanders and Freeman are still with us
5. 1 or 2 of the incoming players are good enough to make the 2 deep
6. Williams improves perimeter shot
7. Nigel Johnson is 1/2 as good as Eddie says
8. We stay healthy
If all these things occur I'd like Jordan to stay and we will see progress. Personally I don't want to see Jordan get the chance. Now the chances of these all occurring are the same as Savon Huggins rushing for 2,000 yards in a season in the NFL.
and you continue to act like a saint while attacking others--face it half the things you say you don't do, you do, and you can't give it a rest--my comments are on target and you do make this board hard to read--do you work or is your job posting the same stuff over and over again--your posts are hard to avoid since they are constant--yes this is a message board but you have made it a complaint board--you went from 80000 posts to over 82000 demanding Jordan is fired--yeah that's refreshing
You don't know, you haven't seen it. Maybe your argument should be that EJ shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Fact is, he was hired, and out of principle, he should get the chance to see through his first roster of entirely his players for at least 1 year and then you can judge.
I'm confused? I thought you only wanted threads & posts that discuss strategy, facts, and results? I thought you were anti-opinion? o_O
C'mon now, we hold the Minority Coaches to a different standard at Rutgers.
I feel bad for Eddie. It felt to me that he took the job out of pure nostalgia without knowing what he got himself into. At the time, he said that facilities do not matter- but he's learned that they do. He said that the kids need to heal after Rice and have fun, and the winning will come. That hasn't happened either...
Given that RU has neglected basketball all these years, this was a bad career move on his part. He should have never taken this job when facility-wise, we are on par with Monmouth and Iona. I know it will never happen, but I wouldn't mind shutting down the program until we have a practice facility in place and there is a commitment to success.
It angers me that the season ticket holders (myself included) had been led to believe that things will change. It angers me even more to know that SHU had a good year....
The days are long gone where we were competitive and had fun at the RAC. I will never forget Rashod Kent leading the crowd in a "Lane's a pussy" chant vs SHU... Those were the best RU basketball days for me...
Given that RU has neglected basketball all these years, this was a bad career move on his part. He should have never taken this job when facility-wise, we are on par with Monmouth and Iona. I know it will never happen, but I wouldn't mind shutting down the program until we have a practice facility in place and there is a commitment to success.
It angers me that the season ticket holders (myself included) had been led to believe that things will change. It angers me even more to know that SHU had a good year....
The days are long gone where we were competitive and had fun at the RAC. I will never forget Rashod Kent leading the crowd in a "Lane's a pussy" chant vs SHU... Those were the best RU basketball days for me...
Not even going to waste time arguing with the 3 or 4 delusional Eddie supporters left here.
I'm confident he'll rightfully be fired in the next 10 days or so.
Can't wait to get a fresh start and start to wipe the stench clean of these past 3 disastrous years.
I'm confident he'll rightfully be fired in the next 10 days or so.
Can't wait to get a fresh start and start to wipe the stench clean of these past 3 disastrous years.
I take no pleasure in saying it, but I think RU has to make a change at season's end. At this point I don't see a scenario where it makes sense to give him "one more year." Our record will be better next year (can't be worse), so say we win 5 conference games...doesn't make sense to get rid of him then after a 5 game improvement. I think it's either replace him now, or you back yourself into a 3+ year commitment. No one can deny that much of this season's misfortune was not in EJ's control w/ all the injuries, but after 3 full seasons, there are plenty of ways to judge a coach other than Ws and Ls. Love the guy, but don't think he's the right fit moving forward.
fully agree, I have been trying to say this for a few weeks...one year does nothing, its either you fire him or you commit to him NOW for 2-3 more years which means an extension because you have to show that you support him even with all the losing and that he will be here so recruits can believe it.
One year seems to be something that those who don't want to face reality and be judgemental about a loyal son are saying to make themselves feel better about the situation. Its not about feeling better, its about whether you are confident in thinking he is the right guy. One year is just punting again, it makes no difference
This is it, in a nutshell. It's really either extend or fire at this point. Having him stay on for one more year is really just kicking the can down the road.
Would Hobbs give Eddie another year just to fire him OR extend him next year? I doubt it.
This discussion is eerily similar to those on the football board near the end of the season. There are a few EJ die hards left just as there were a few Floodies left then. The difference is that EJ is a favorite son and Flood was a personal embarrassment in addition to being a terrible coach. Hobbs has been there before and he will do what is necessary again.
There is talent on this team that if healthy could be 16-15 next year
I would love Eddie to be the man to do it....but I don't think he can do it.
The right coach could...
I would love Eddie to be the man to do it....but I don't think he can do it.
The right coach could...
Step 1: Fire EJ because he couldn't flip a program with 4 scholarship players in 2 years (year 3 was over in November)
Step 2: hire no name coach who is given same resources as his predessors
Step 3: better players on team transfer
Step 4: coach scrambles to piece together a now blown up roster
Step 5: single digit wins again because now marginal players are starting
Step 6: year 2 some decent freshman recruits play but they are young and we struggle. 10-12 wins. Same people as usual start chirping this coach isn't great
Step 7: players get hurt in year 3, transfer or a scandal comes out.
Step 8: fans call to fire coach, he will never get it done but the next guy will
Unless RU does a 180 on hoops (doubt it) this is what you guys will get if this roster gets blown up in April. Just saying...
Step 2: hire no name coach who is given same resources as his predessors
Step 3: better players on team transfer
Step 4: coach scrambles to piece together a now blown up roster
Step 5: single digit wins again because now marginal players are starting
Step 6: year 2 some decent freshman recruits play but they are young and we struggle. 10-12 wins. Same people as usual start chirping this coach isn't great
Step 7: players get hurt in year 3, transfer or a scandal comes out.
Step 8: fans call to fire coach, he will never get it done but the next guy will
Unless RU does a 180 on hoops (doubt it) this is what you guys will get if this roster gets blown up in April. Just saying...
However, Flood was mildly successful on the field and Jordan has been an embarassing failure on the court.
this is so wrong I don't know where to begin, you are worried about blowing up a roster that has only 3 legit B10 players that may or may not transfer if there is a coaching change or isn't....and worried about a coach who has won 12, 10, and 6 games...okay
because not giving him an extension means you are showing no support and expect him gone...I don't know what you expect one year to show...you either give no years and fire him or support him for 3 years...
Another year with this money grubbing hustler in charge will set us back even further, if that's even possible
Not with there being no seniors next year and if the last ship is used by April, there are no spots to offer. What is the harm with the guys currently juniors? Maybe partially harmful to sophomores or freshman but not juniors!
You do not think it is going to matter with Eddie. But if you are wrong, then the program and any coach , Eddie or another coach with the team with a respectable performance is in a better position with the high school kids that will not think they are coming into a hopeless situation.
ru66 said: ↑
bac you are incorrigible--- "I've rested by case already"----what with 7 or 8 posts on this thread already?? more to come I'm sure.
1>oh god sounds like the OP is naïve and hasn't been paying attention. It sounds like a statement straight out of the athletic department. I've rested by case already so I am done arguing all my points. Someone else can explain to Al all the damning evidence against Jordan, Its not a science project where you give time for an experimentation to work. Al was also supporting Flood to the end I believe. <
2>Im too tired of arguing it by now. Whether someone strongly believes that the injuries are a factor is a fair argument but at this point the losing, the embarrassment, the stench of a bad program and the fanbase believing there needs to be a change are all things that trump any benefit of the doubt given for another year. A change needs to be made at this point because the losing is overwhelming for the program to handle
3>hanging tight for one more year...what does that even mean
do you think Eddie is taking us to the NCAA tourney...if your answer is no, he needs to go now
hanging tight = punting investment once again down the road which is status quo for this school...its a good thing Hobbs isn't status quo
4>agree...I feel some people casually offer opinions without even watching whats going on, football fans are like that too when they address basketball..oh yeah give him another year to see what he could do, yet they haven't watched one minute
5>no I didnt, I didn't expect us to be losing 39 of our last 44 games and have two separate 15 game losing streaks as well has about 23 losses by more than 20 points in his 3 years. I expected there to be some hope and optimism in the program..not a stench of losing
6>Eddie can coach here 10 years, he isn't making the dance, is he making it in year 5? no. some advocating for him to come back for next year for what...the team will be better of course, they cant be any worse..what does 12-20 accomplish...its not about this year and the injuries...its about everything...look at Ash and look at Jordan, couldn't be farther apart. Eddie isn't a college coach, just a bad fit for this job
7>the product will be awful withEddie, we get a one year jump to improve and bring in a guy that can coach coach and improve the recruiting which aint so hot for next year and who knows guys may stay and they are just as likely to leave if Eddie stays <
8>ive seen people throw out this argument...wahhhhhhhhh who is going to come here and throw their hands in the air, the same thing they did with Flood. Its not any easier to find someone next year or the year after or the year after that. Its Hobbs job as AD to identify candidates and there will be someone willing to take a shot...and no we aren't paying $4 million and we wont get a top notch hotshot..most programs dont <
9>that's your right to disagree but I have no clue what your end game is...so RU goes 12-20 or 13-19 next year and then what <
and he's still going strong in this thread [roll]
But there's not a reason he shouldn't be.
Don't know how many times I said I was done with an issue, only to keep talking about it.;)
bac you are incorrigible--- "I've rested by case already"----what with 7 or 8 posts on this thread already?? more to come I'm sure.
66 was wrong ( this before his post):
1>oh god sounds like the OP is naïve and hasn't been paying attention. It sounds like a statement straight out of the athletic department. I've rested by case already so I am done arguing all my points. Someone else can explain to Al all the damning evidence against Jordan, Its not a science project where you give time for an experimentation to work. Al was also supporting Flood to the end I believe. <
2>Im too tired of arguing it by now. Whether someone strongly believes that the injuries are a factor is a fair argument but at this point the losing, the embarrassment, the stench of a bad program and the fanbase believing there needs to be a change are all things that trump any benefit of the doubt given for another year. A change needs to be made at this point because the losing is overwhelming for the program to handle
3>hanging tight for one more year...what does that even mean
do you think Eddie is taking us to the NCAA tourney...if your answer is no, he needs to go now
hanging tight = punting investment once again down the road which is status quo for this school...its a good thing Hobbs isn't status quo
4>agree...I feel some people casually offer opinions without even watching whats going on, football fans are like that too when they address basketball..oh yeah give him another year to see what he could do, yet they haven't watched one minute
5>no I didnt, I didn't expect us to be losing 39 of our last 44 games and have two separate 15 game losing streaks as well has about 23 losses by more than 20 points in his 3 years. I expected there to be some hope and optimism in the program..not a stench of losing
6>Eddie can coach here 10 years, he isn't making the dance, is he making it in year 5? no. some advocating for him to come back for next year for what...the team will be better of course, they cant be any worse..what does 12-20 accomplish...its not about this year and the injuries...its about everything...look at Ash and look at Jordan, couldn't be farther apart. Eddie isn't a college coach, just a bad fit for this job
7>the product will be awful withEddie, we get a one year jump to improve and bring in a guy that can coach coach and improve the recruiting which aint so hot for next year and who knows guys may stay and they are just as likely to leave if Eddie stays <
8>ive seen people throw out this argument...wahhhhhhhhh who is going to come here and throw their hands in the air, the same thing they did with Flood. Its not any easier to find someone next year or the year after or the year after that. Its Hobbs job as AD to identify candidates and there will be someone willing to take a shot...and no we aren't paying $4 million and we wont get a top notch hotshot..most programs dont <
9>that's your right to disagree but I have no clue what your end game is...so RU goes 12-20 or 13-19 next year and then what <
and he's still going strong in this thread [roll]
But there's not a reason he shouldn't be.
Don't know how many times I said I was done with an issue, only to keep talking about it.;)
I like EJ very much --loyal son of Rutgers but what this program needs is a fresh start, and badly.. And that will happen only if jordan leaves and is replaced by someone with energy , drive and a passion to succeed . Sort of the Ash version applied to basketball.
rutgersal isn't legitimate, never has been, never will. Pretty sure he/she is a state penn, maybe syracuse troll. No reason to start a another new thread on this topic except to rile up the RU fan base, again.
The issue with bringing EJ back is that the losses have been historically bad. Recruiting has also been really subpar for a B1G program. I like EJ and would support him if he came back, but keeping him is just delaying the inevitable.
The thing I want to see is RU make a real commitment to men's basketball.
The thing I want to see is RU make a real commitment to men's basketball.
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