See thread title: pretend all coaching staffs in the Big Ten are exactly equal in ability and the only differentiation is in other factors e.g. program history, facilities, budget (NIL or otherwise). Where do we expect Rutgers to fall?
If coaching were not a factor, where does Rutgers rank in the Big Ten?
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Okay I’m starting to see the disconnects here lol.
You think we have a top 5 NIL budget?
Note I’m talking generally here, not this year specifically where you will try to count the fanatics money.
Based on support
18. Northwestern
17. Penn State
16. Minnesota
15. Washington
14/13/12/11 tie Nebraska, Rutgers, Iowa, USC
18. Northwestern
17. Penn State
16. Minnesota
15. Washington
14/13/12/11 tie Nebraska, Rutgers, Iowa, USC
You can't just disregard RU got a gift dropped in their lap
I know its not every year but people are ignoring we had 3 million dollar players here..puts us in the top half for this season
Incredibly annoying
The follow-up question for anyone who puts Rutgers lower on the list than their actual results:
Does that not implicitly state that we have above average coaching?
I can disregard it because I’m trying to talk about long term stuff here not just one terrible season.
All those teams are pretty much where they are..musselman and sprinkle just getting started
He did. But some coaches aren’t meant to coach kids like that. We should’ve seen the writing of the wall with GG.
For better or worse, I’m hoping to see a roster full of kids with the personality Pike seeks after next season. Kids that want to win through defense.
Okay ,but scoring wins games.During Pikiell tenure Rutgers has two seasons winning more than 10 league games and has achieved only one win in the NCAA Tournament. The program like so many others in the B1G Ten is mired in mediocrity.It will take more than better defense to change the status quo.
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We discussed the actual results in another thread.
The last 3 years that's the exact tier we've been in (even lower last year).
Approx 10th and maybe trending lower based on last year and potentially this year.
Next year will be a key indicator on the direction of the program and tier we are in.
Any above average coaching edge seems to have been bypassed by other coaches being at least neutral for higher tier schools.
Appears we now just have average coaching compared to the rest of the Big Ten.
We need to get back to above average coaching in the present Big Ten. Not the Big Ten of 5 years ago.
Not sure this thread will make the point you think it will.
Ok but next year could be rough and the “team turnover” and “so many frosh” excuse will come out again and if any of those frosh excel they’ll be plucked before they’re on the banks for a second year. Not the landscape Pike is comfortable with anymore.
But what if that isn't the best way to win?
Is it more important to just "win" (by whatever process that entails) or "win through defense" just because that what HC Pike prefers - even if it may not be the best way to win?
Similar to on the football side in previous years. I think many are falling into the "well just do what we use to do even if it's not the best way overall".
.400 winning percentage the last nine years in the B1G and .406 the last three years after our most successful three seasons. A lot factors in there and we didn’t capitalize on our peak so all things considered I’d put 60% of the team in front of us so 12th is what I’ll say.
Food for thought, 16-31 since the Mag injury at msg. .340. That might be a better state of the program measurement at this point. It factors in coaching, recruiting, facilities, player development, retention, the portal, NIL etc. Perennially just outside the bubble talk.
Food for thought, 16-31 since the Mag injury at msg. .340. That might be a better state of the program measurement at this point. It factors in coaching, recruiting, facilities, player development, retention, the portal, NIL etc. Perennially just outside the bubble talk.
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Three years? Last I checked we went 10-10 in 2022-23, you aren't going to use tiebreakers to make your argument right?
Anyway you guys also like to make up trendlines that don't exist.
Agree.
It's already making the point. If the conclusion you make puts Pikiell somewhere between "a bit below average" and "a bit above average" that is fine and reasonable to me. It's aimed at the, quite frankly, very stupid people who will tell you he is obviously the worst coach in the B1G by a long shot.
2022-2023 we were 10-10. That’s not great.
We were tied with PSU for 9th/10th.
I would say “average” isn’t good enough.
If coaching agnostic we are a mid to slightly lower program then we need to coach (and operate) at an above average rate.
Same for football.
But I’m one of the few who thinks we can win with our current programs (even with the lack of NIL and resources) by coaching and operating better than the rest of the Big Ten.
Thats the only way considering we will never have the resources of the top tier Big Ten teams.
I didn't say great. It's above the tier anyone (except RUDivision) would put us based on resources alone.
Where and how are we getting an above average B1G coach without the resources?
We need a coach who isn’t already above average.
This idea we have to “poach” a coach is dumb.
Who are the current above average B1G coaches?
Were they above average when they got hired?
Dont think they were all defending national champs that were poached from Duke and UNC.
Was Matt Painter an above average B1G coaches at Southern Illinois when Purdue hired him?
What’s the alternative?
Nobody ever gives me an answer.
Resources aren’t coming. All this complaining and bashing the fanbase is pointless.
Get over it everyone. Work the problem.
Want an easy fix? Stop taking dumb long 2pt shots.
Doesn’t take an above average B1G coach to make that change.
If they aren't above average now then you are just hoping to get lucky. Most coaches you hire this way will end up worse than Pike.
Being somewhat more patient with a coach who came here through that route, had some success, and then had a rough period.
Quite frankly, there is no answer. The complaining and bashing is pointless and that's not what I'm trying to do here. I'm not one of the "if you didn't donate a house you get no voice" people. If we don't have resources we will never have sustained success unless we get lucky.
Yes, Pike is definitely above average at defense and definitely below average at offense.
My comment was only in response to the emphasis on the management of Dylan and Ace this season. We didn’t need to bring in more offense first kids. We had them! We had no returned experienced players. For a coach whose always preached D first - bringing in offense first supporting players was a bad decision. He blew it.
For sure. But one thing has nothing to do with the other. Just because Pike wasn’t the right choice to lead an offense only team with 2 NBA players on it doesn’t change the modest success he’s had in fielding competitive rosters with his D first approach. Only last season was not competitive and offensive ranking of 298 was an outlier too.
There is more than one effect way to win. 3 years ago before Mag got hurt Pike proved this much in the first half of the season when we made our way to the top of the rankings. Mag was the anchor of the press that allowed us to achieve what we did. But you can’t pretend the early success didn’t happen.
Look I’m not saying Piek is the long term answer just that he should get the chance to try to restore what he built next season without everyone calling for his head right now. If we stink again next year then it’s totally called for and time to move on for sure.
I think you mean some coaches are not good enough at their jobs to get one-and-dones to buy in
“Wasn’t the guy to coach two nba players” is ridiculous. How many coaches would give almost anything to have that talent. How about you make them play d and hold the. Accountable. Instead they do what they want. Program hasn’t been competitive since Geo, Ron Caleb etc left. After Mag got hurt a .340 B1G winning percentages. Could care less if we played ala and A&M close. How many double digit leads did we blow. It’s not competitive when it’s grossly underachieving.
But had pennies for the rest of the team you have no problem ignoring.
The issue this season more than coaching was losing Cliff and Mag and replacing them with two freshmen and Martini. This is a big downgrade from a defense and rebounding perspective. A better team needed to built around Dylan and Ace.
we had enough money to field a competitive roster, the mods have been pretty clear about that
Pikes best years
His best team (Covid)
Tournament team
Play in team
Nit team (self destructed late in season)
Last years debacle (wait until next year)
Two NBA top 3 picks
Losing record in the BIG ten with his best and most talented teams.
Pikes a bottom tier coach!
Defense plus
Offense minus
Portal minus
Timeouts minus
Substitutions minus
Play out of timeouts or the half minus
Inbounds minus
His best team (Covid)
Tournament team
Play in team
Nit team (self destructed late in season)
Last years debacle (wait until next year)
Two NBA top 3 picks
Losing record in the BIG ten with his best and most talented teams.
Pikes a bottom tier coach!
Defense plus
Offense minus
Portal minus
Timeouts minus
Substitutions minus
Play out of timeouts or the half minus
Inbounds minus
This this this
You know I’ve been harping on the recruting misses for theee years . The troubling issue is we needed to have regrets that two covid gear seniors needed to be around to have a team around the class of 2024
This season was lost in what’s not here from the classes of 2021, 2022
And 2023 …..
Thi
Thank you an actual rational thought out post from someone who knows the game…
I think you need to look 12 -13 montns from now and ask these questions
Did we keep the three frosh from this year for 2025-2026
Did we sign another very good class in November for 2026-2027
Did we show signs of growth with a soph-frosh dominated team in 2025-2026 (think 2018-2019 that lead to 2019-2020?)
And
Do we keep most of the core from next year intact and out of the portal to return. For 2026-2027???
We can live with .500
Next year again if the above happens because the Fondation will be forming for future success in 2026-2027 and beyond if the program building questions above get “yes answers “….
Be
Maybe, just maybe, this all needs to be pinned on Ace and Dylan.
Sorry ace and Dylan are the ones tgat got beat off the dribble with ease against most opponents. Dylan is the one who didnt have the toughness to get through screens. Ace is the one who pkays defense flat footed most posssessions and rourinely lost track of his man.
Pike can only do so much.
