If you're Hobbs.....

[mildone]

If I am Hobbs and we're trending toward a 1-2 win season I am discreetly beating the bushes to raise $$ for a buyout after '18 if this doesn't get turned around by then....plan ahead just in case.

I predicted 2-4 wins for this season. I'm guessing Hobbs is too. So if we get another 2 win season, I doubt Hobbs will be looking to make any changes.

In Flood's case, he had a bunch of off-field issues. But in general, continually firing coaches just ramps up the price of a new coach (and his buyout). Even today, what coach in the country wouldn't view RU as a risky job move? Now add that we fired a guy that gets rave reviews from coaches all over the place after only 2 seasons.

For better or worse, if Ash doesn't suffer off field issues, I would probably stick with him for at least 3 years and probably 5. What I might do is increase his budget for assistants.

 

[miketd1]

Beat Penn State and all is forgiven.

 

[RUJMM78]

I'd be excited if the DBs occasionally broke up a pass.

It would be even better if the defensive backs turned their shoulder so that they would be in position to intercept passes.

 

[RUBOB72]

Bob - This is not a meeting / discussion to question Ash's job security as I think you and some others are misintrepreting. This is a meeting / discussion to address/ suggest / recommend matters that as an AD(or Ash's boss) or as someone like Hobbs who deals with donors and fans - need to be raised - amid concerns that are starting to fester. As an AD or as a Manager, you don;t wait until the issue is uncontrollable or unfixable - as it's prudent to get ahead of the problem - as any top executive or politician would advise.

Furthermore, if I'm Hobbs - who is fully vested in Ash as he should be - my ability to raise funds becomes a lot more difficult with a HC under siege - and hence the need to get ahead of the situation.

I do understand the premise of your OP...I am more than sure Hobbs and Ash communicate well and more than we know...this is NOT a quick fix no matter how we want it to go...Go back to year 1-2-3 of Schiano...it really is very similar...we don't have enough players capable of being consistent at this point...look at our roster...the number of first and second year players...As many coaches know ...for each yearling you play there is a good chance you will lose much more than you win...Personally, I thought watching from home ( hip replacement) we were a slower team on D compared to EMU...especially at LB...we'll see throughout the year and if it turns out bad Ash will not survive much more than year 3...

 

[Shelby65]

Mild...I completely disagree with the idea that firing coaches sooner rather than later will scare off candidates. This is a Big10 job in a recruiting-rich state that will pay between 1-2 million per year. Plenty of qualified coaches would run for a job like this, especially the rising coordinator types we always hire anyway.

And I would certainly not see increasing salaries for assistants as a way to fix this team or staff.

 

[mildone]

Mild...I completely disagree with the idea that firing coaches sooner rather than later will scare off candidates. This is a Big10 job in a recruiting-rich state that will pay between 1-2 million per year. Plenty of qualified coaches would run for a job like this, especially the rising coordinator types we always hire anyway.

And I would certainly not see increasing salaries for assistants as a way to fix this team or staff.

It's not so much scared off as scared expensive. College football is a business and firing a coach w/Ash's good reputation among his peers is a great way to jack up the cost of a new coach. And we can't afford a big-name coach. So we'll wind up with an overpriced gamble.

Expecting Ash to having turned things around by the second game of year two is, IMO, ridiculous anyway. Plus we looked improved against Washington. Falling flat in a game after playing unusually well in the prior game is not exactly unheard of in sports.

If I'm Hobbs, I'm nowhere near thinking about firing Ash yet. Because anybody I can currently afford to replace him with is (a) going to be more expensive and with a bigger buyout, (b) going to be far from a sure thing, (c) going to negatively impact any inroads the current staff has made in recruiting, (d) not change the quality of our opposition so going bowling is still going to be years away.

Now, if we can hire a huge name head coach away from his winning program, that changes things. Otherwise, we're still going to be rebuilding and it's very likely it'll still be a multiyear rebuilt effort.

 

[RU#1fan]

Start an early search for a HC with EXPERIENCE.

 

[Shelby65]

I was one of those who disagreed about improvement in the UW game, and of course I was called out as being a troll. Washington figured us out in Q2, and EMU seemingly watched UW tape and outplayed us too. Plus, all 3 phases are completely disorganized. It looked like EMU was the P5 team on Saturday, not a team 0-for its entire P5 game history.

Yes, it's more expensive buying out a coach but that's the cost of playing big boy football. Job requirement #1 for Hobbs (and every P5 AD) is to find money to attract a good coach.

And as far as Ash's 'good reputation'...99% of coaches have a good reputation. Coaches with 'good reputations' get hired and fired all the time.

Ash took over a weak program and that gets him an extended grace period, but not losses like on Sat. If it were my money, I need to see 5 wins in FY18.

 

[BlockR]

I was one of those who disagreed about improvement in the UW game, and of course I was called out as being a troll. Washington figured us out in Q2, and EMU seemingly watched UW tape and outplayed us too. Plus, all 3 phases are completely disorganized. It looked like EMU was the P5 team on Saturday, not a team 0-for its entire P5 game history.

Yes, it's more expensive buying out a coach but that's the cost of playing big boy football. Job requirement #1 for Hobbs (and every P5 AD) is to find money to attract a good coach.

And as far as Ash's 'good reputation'...99% of coaches have a good reputation. Coaches with 'good reputations' get hired and fired all the time.

Ash took over a weak program and that gets him an extended grace period, but not losses like on Sat. If it were my money, I need to see 5 wins in FY18.

I dont think five wins keeps his job in 2018 if he puts up 1 or two wins this season.
Then his record would be in range of 8 wins in three seasons,and he would survive?

 

[Shelby65]

yes, it would save is job due to a notable win increase if that were to happen. it's something Hobbs can 'sell' to donors and tickets buyers, and Ash can sell to recruits.

But 1-2 wins this year, and 2-3 next year and HPSS would be 3/4 empty in '19. Hobbs would have no choice.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Lawyer turned AD? Lmao. The guy was a school administrator at SHU, he is now a school administrator at RU. Yes, he is also an attorney/law professor. You make it sound like they grabbed some ambulance chaser out of a second rate personal injury firm to run an athletic department. Not all AD's need to be former athletes or coaches.
.

I did not mean to apply he is incompetent as an ad. I meant it as he has no experience or expertise is sports. Therefore he should not be telling a coach how to do his job. When you are in a position like that you have to trust the people you hire and let them do what they do best.

 

[BoogieKnight]

I did not mean to apply he is incompetent as an ad. I meant it as he has no experience or expertise is sports. Therefore he should not be telling a coach how to do his job. When you are in a position like that you have to trust the people you hire and let them do what they do best.

I agree and we have no reason to believe he's not doing just that. But there's no question that Ash just made Hobbs/Baumgartners job much harder this past weekend. At least for the foreseeable future.

 

[Caliknight]

I did not mean to apply he is incompetent as an ad. I meant it as he has no experience or expertise is sports. Therefore he should not be telling a coach how to do his job. When you are in a position like that you have to trust the people you hire and let them do what they do best.

There are very few AD's who can give their coaches on field playing advice. The only one that comes to mind is Barry Alvarez, if he even is an AD anymore.

 

[MR RU]

Because Hobbs has no experience coaching football. In many industries what your describing it appropriate but not in football. There is nothing Hobbs can say or do in the middle of the season to improve the situation. What you are suggesting is like saying a hospital administrator should walk into the middle of surgery and point out to the surgeon that they may lose the patient. There is an appropriate time and place for those discussions. That is after the season when they can actually make changes. It not like Hobbs is going to draw up new plays or suggest things that work. He just going to point out the obvious. Coaches HATE ads who try to micromanage especially when they have no experience in coaching. If an AD gets that reputation coaches don't want to work for them. It would be one thing if he was an AD like Alvarez. Then it may be appropriate. If he wants to improve the program the people he should be talking to is donors not his head coach.

Get lost, and address your a$$ of a head coach Franklin on your own board.

 

[noble106]

I did not mean to apply he is incompetent as an ad. I meant it as he has no experience or expertise is sports. Therefore he should not be telling a coach how to do his job. When you are in a position like that you have to trust the people you hire and let them do what they do best.

I mostly agree, but then where's the accountability? For all we know, Ash could give up on the team, half ass the effort, blame our losses on the staff and players, and then move on to the next gig when his contract is up.

I don't even think the argument is that Hobbs needs to tell Ash what to do game-wise to get wins, I think it's that some people believe Hobbs needs to step in and motivate Ash to start managing the team properly.

 

[Scoutnmayo]

- Do you have a little sit down with Ash to discuss the status of the team; the plans/ goals for the balance of the year; the "scratch your head" issues with the staff or Ash?
...

Do you really think these two don't talk every week?

 

[RUChris]

Plenty of qualified coaches would run for a job like this, especially the rising coordinator types we always hire anyway.

I don't remember anyone running for this job in 2015. Honestly, I don't remember anyone running for this job in 2012 when Schiano left. I feel like we massively overestimate how big of an opportunity people feel this job is. The current depth of the team is still exceptionally shallow. Rutgers budget vs is B1G East division mates is not comparable, and Rutgers isn't getting a full payout to rectify that issue. NJ and Rutgers politics are messy to navigate. The entire athletic department was left in disarray after Pernetti/Hermann/Rice/Flood. The football team honestly hasn't won a game that anyone outside of NJ cared about since 2006. These programs and all the things need to make them work are like huge ships at sea. It takes a lot of time to turn that around and firing Ash would show any "up and coming" coordinator that they wont receive the patience to fix things, among all the other crap they'd need to deal with just because, well, it's Rutgers.

Ash can win one game this year and, as long as there aren't any scandals, he's not going anywhere. And if he follows that up with only 4 or 5 wins next year, he's still not going anywhere if the team shows progress and he's pulling in classes.

 

[czxqa]

I predicted 2-4 wins for this season. I'm guessing Hobbs is too. So if we get another 2 win season, I doubt Hobbs will be looking to make any changes.

In Flood's case, he had a bunch of off-field issues. But in general, continually firing coaches just ramps up the price of a new coach (and his buyout). Even today, what coach in the country wouldn't view RU as a risky job move? Now add that we fired a guy that gets rave reviews from coaches all over the place after only 2 seasons.

For better or worse, if Ash doesn't suffer off field issues, I would probably stick with him for at least 3 years and probably 5. What I might do is increase his budget for assistants.

Best post I've seen this week.

 

[RUChris]

I dont think five wins keeps his job in 2018 if he puts up 1 or two wins this season.
Then his record would be in range of 8 wins in three seasons,and he would survive?

Schiano won 2 games, then 1 game, then 5 games against mostly putrid competition (sans Syacuse and maybe Navy) in 2003. He stuck around.

 

[17Q66]

- Do you have a little sit down with Ash to discuss the status of the team; the plans/ goals for the balance of the year; the "scratch your head" issues with the staff or Ash?

- Do you advise him of the uneasiness with the fanbase?

- Do you advise him that seats also need to be filled which only can occur via more exciting play and most importantly wins?

I don't know if AD's do this - but as Ash's boss - who else can and even if AD's generally don't do this - as a manager of any employee - I would think an AD needs to address certain issues with their staff.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? I think you've never met Pat Hobbs.
Or Chris Ash.

 

[Upstream]

What you are suggesting is like saying a hospital administrator should walk into the middle of surgery and point out to the surgeon that they may lose the patient.

That is actually a pretty good analogy

 

[SJScarlet]

I don't remember anyone running for this job in 2015. Honestly, I don't remember anyone running for this job in 2012 when Schiano left. I feel like we massively overestimate how big of an opportunity people feel this job is. The current depth of the team is still exceptionally shallow. Rutgers budget vs is B1G East division mates is not comparable, and Rutgers isn't getting a full payout to rectify that issue. NJ and Rutgers politics are messy to navigate. The entire athletic department was left in disarray after Pernetti/Hermann/Rice/Flood. The football team honestly hasn't won a game that anyone outside of NJ cared about since 2006. These programs and all the things need to make them work are like huge ships at sea. It takes a lot of time to turn that around and firing Ash would show any "up and coming" coordinator that they wont receive the patience to fix things, among all the other crap they'd need to deal with just because, well, it's Rutgers.

Ash can win one game this year and, as long as there aren't any scandals, he's not going anywhere. And if he follows that up with only 4 or 5 wins next year, he's still not going anywhere if the team shows progress and he's pulling in classes.

The B1G invite had not come yet in 2012.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Do you seriously that think that Ash doesn't know he needs to win?

This.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

We really have some winners as fans. It's really getting to be beyond ridiculous. Yes I know this is a discussion board but if some fans don't think the staff is just as disappointed then you don't have a clue. And what is even more sad is it is usually the same folks all of the time. I know many friends who were disappointed with this past week's game and results but somehow we manage to have level based discussion.

In person, most people moderate themselves a bit more than they do in message boards.

Here's one negative example I saw on these boards week one to week two.. some people were hyper-negative on Ash's conservative use of 4th down. The majority of people moderated there response and tried to show some understanding.. give some room for doubt.. we were playing a ranked team, blah blah blah. (I was one of the moderate blah blah blahs).

Week 2.. the harsher critics were proven correct.

There is room on message boards for both moderates and the immoderates.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

What you are suggesting is like saying a hospital administrator should walk into the middle of surgery and point out to the surgeon that they may lose the patient.

That is actually a pretty good analogy

Not so much. Maybe if you saw an AD go down to the sideline during the game and get in the HC's face.. then that would be an apt analogy.

But, in the chosen example.. if the hospital admin asked to meed with a surgeon several days before a surgery... to talk about a previous poor outcome and what can be done to improve outcomes in the future.. you think that doesn't happen already in many many hospitals all over the world?

 

[RU4Real]

But, in the chosen example.. if the hospital admin asked to meed with a surgeon several days before a surgery... to talk about a previous poor outcome and what can be done to improve outcomes in the future.. you think that doesn't happen already in many many hospitals all over the world?

No.

The hospital administrator would address outcome issues with the chief of surgery, who would then be tasked with creating a plan to guarantee better outcomes.

Hobbs' appropriate guidance would be to agree to goals and objectives prior to the start of the season - with emphasis on the word "agree". Doubtless there is a regular cadence between the two, but there wouldn't be any need for Ash to stress things like "the importance of winning".

It's important to note that expectations differ between team personnel and fans. I've told this story before, but it's relevant. One day I down to the NFL cafeteria and ran into a good friend of mine from Player Personnel. He was having lunch with George Young who, at the time, was transitioning from being GM of the Giants to a position with the League Office. While we were chatting I asked him what he thought of the Giants chances for the season. He immediately said, "We're probably a .500 ballclub this year."

They finished 8-8.

 

[Upstream]

But, in the chosen example.. if the hospital admin asked to meed with a surgeon several days before a surgery... to talk about a previous poor outcome and what can be done to improve outcomes in the future.. you think that doesn't happen already in many many hospitals all over the world?

Do you really think there is any hospital in the world, where a hospital administrator (who is not an MD) sits down with an individual surgeon to discuss his previous surgeries and tells the surgeon what to do in the next surgery.

 

[REDRICH65]

Hobbs to Ashe on Monday: " Chris, gotta win the next one going away. Fans need something to feel good about."

 

[Shelby65]

Nevermind hospital structures, he was making an analogy....Hobbs may not discuss Xs and Os but he absolutely make it known that improvement is needed...and a hospital exec or QA committee will for sure also require improvements when necessary thru whatever channels fit the organization.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

No.

The hospital administrator would address outcome issues with the chief of surgery, who would then be tasked with creating a plan to guarantee better outcomes.

Hobbs' appropriate guidance would be to agree to goals and objectives prior to the start of the season - with emphasis on the word "agree". Doubtless there is a regular cadence between the two, but there wouldn't be any need for Ash to stress things like "the importance of winning".

It's important to note that expectations differ between team personnel and fans. I've told this story before, but it's relevant. One day I down to the NFL cafeteria and ran into a good friend of mine from Player Personnel. He was having lunch with George Young who, at the time, was transitioning from being GM of the Giants to a position with the League Office. While we were chatting I asked him what he thought of the Giants chances for the season. He immediately said, "We're probably a .500 ballclub this year."

They finished 8-8.

Good story.. but in the over-strained analogy I'd imagine that Ash would be the chief of surgery.. or Hobbs.. very difficult to map it out.. but the point is, the PSU fan's offered analogy of interrupting a surgery is ridiculous.

Do you think an NFL front office has regular in-season meetings with the head coach? How about meetings when things are going badly?

I'd imagine the total lack of offense last season was recognized by both Hobbs and Ash and discussed (perhaps during and after the season.. who knows?) and the end result being we have a new OC. Well, that last game reminded me of last year.. not a good thing.

My view is this.. the "asks" from Rutgers to its fans have increased year by year by year.. there is a real danger of estrangement here. We have seen its effects already. I don't know if a Hobbs / Ash meeting would help or hurt. I know if I were AD I'd want to make sure Ash knew I found the 4th down punt confusing and ask what the thought process was. Maybe Ash admits he'd go the other way if he had to do it again. I'd also want to know if there was something I could do that could help.. like pay for another assistant for Jerry Kill to lighten his load.. maybe bring in some old coach/consultant for a talk.. motivational thing..

 

[PaKnight]

Good story.. but in the over-strained analogy I'd imagine that Ash would be the chief of surgery.. or Hobbs.. very difficult to map it out.. but the point is, the PSU fan's offered analogy of interrupting a surgery is ridiculous.

Do you think an NFL front office has regular in-season meetings with the head coach? How about meetings when things are going badly?

I'd imagine the total lack of offense last season was recognized by both Hobbs and Ash and discussed (perhaps during and after the season.. who knows?) and the end result being we have a new OC. Well, that last game reminded me of last year.. not a good thing.

My view is this.. the "asks" from Rutgers to its fans have increased year by year by year.. there is a real danger of estrangement here. We have seen its effects already. I don't know if a Hobbs / Ash meeting would help or hurt. I know if I were AD I'd want to make sure Ash knew I found the 4th down punt confusing and ask what the thought process was. Maybe Ash admits he'd go the other way if he had to do it again. I'd also want to know if there was something I could do that could help.. like pay for another assistant for Jerry Kill to lighten his load.. maybe bring in some old coach/consultant for a talk.. motivational thing..

A NFL GM is much different than a college AD, with a few exceptions like when Barry Alvarez was AD at Wisconsin.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

A NFL GM is much different than a college AD, with a few exceptions like when Barry Alvarez was AD at Wisconsin.

Well maybe they shouldn't be. We know football "drives the bus" and virtually everywhere the AD's number 1 job is making sure the football program wins and makes money. In many places the AD takes care of football and men's basketball and has assistants for everything else.

 

[Scarlet16E]

Pat Hobbs runs into Ash at the Wal-Mart ...

 

[160louis]

Hobbs needs to give ash at least a million more in staff budget. That way, Ash can spend that getting guys who can bring in much better talent.

 

[higgins3]

I manage many employees. If I feel some are not performing up to standards, I have a talk with them to discuss performance and to possibly change / understand their position. Why is it holier than thou that a College Football HC making $2mil a year can't be questioned / challenged on some decisions by his boss? It's not a meeting to put him on the spot (i.e. - that his job is on the line). Under your premise or the "norm with College football HCs", I should wait until my staff's annual evaluation to discuss weaknesses /issues / problems etc - which is not how I or any good manager deals with their staff. I'm sure Ash talks issues with his staff weekly / daily so why shouldn't Hobbs do this periodically with Ash or any of his head coaches in other sports?

BigeastPhil, could you message me at stayactive5@gmail.com ? I just had a question I wanted to ask.

Thanks!

 

[PSU_Nut]

The bottom line is even though he reports to Hobbs there is a reason he is the highest paid athletic department employee. Coaches hate being second guessed by suits. The best ADs listen to their coaches and provide resources for them to be successful. They don't need or want an AD who back seat drives.

 

[RU#1fan]

I do understand the premise of your OP...I am more than sure Hobbs and Ash communicate well and more than we know...this is NOT a quick fix no matter how we want it to go...Go back to year 1-2-3 of Schiano...it really is very similar...we don't have enough players capable of being consistent at this point...look at our roster...the number of first and second year players...As many coaches know ...for each yearling you play there is a good chance you will lose much more than you win...Personally, I thought watching from home ( hip replacement) we were a slower team on D compared to EMU...especially at LB...we'll see throughout the year and if it turns out bad Ash will not survive much more than year 3...

Ridiculous to say that the players Ash inherited were on the same level as the players Schiano walked into from Shea. Not even close to that FCS type level.

 

[FastMJ]

Makes no sense for Hobbs to suggest to Ash how to run the football program better. If your $2 million guy can't get it done on his own there will be a change at the appropriate point in time (not any time soon)

 

[RU31trap]

I dont think five wins keeps his job in 2018 if he puts up 1 or two wins this season.
Then his record would be in range of 8 wins in three seasons,and he would survive?

I agree 100%. Everyone knows the schedule is easier next year and Rutgers will be loaded with seniors. I feel that 2018 must be at least a 7 win season. But Kolaz brings up a great point in that we are broke and wouldn't be able to afford paying Ash while trying to attract top talent.

Rutgers was stupid in getting rid of Kyle Flood who was being paid peanuts. Sure he should have had his hand slapped but if kept until his contract expired two things would have happened. We would have won 4 maybe 5 games games last year. But most importantly Rutgers would be able to spend at least 3 million a year next year for a head coach with head coaching experience. Now they're on the hook with a young man whose question mark gets bigger with each game.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

Definitely not scaring anyone off by letting him go sooner rather than later

Ash definitely did not inherit the same type of program greg did. to even suggest that is beyond ignorant

Too many false narratives around here. Ash is simply a lousy hc