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In the "I don't get it" department...

PatrickRU92

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Nevada tonight with a remarkable comeback win at the Pit in NM, made 7 consecutive 3 pointers in the last few minutes to send it to OT (which they then won on a buzzer beating 3 pointer)

Have we made 8 three pointers in B1G conference play???? They made 8 in like 8 minutes.

How the frack does it happen where we simply have refused to sign anyone who can shoot the GD ball and a school like fracking Nevada can pull this off???

Mind numbing.
 
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Maybe it's not that we have refused to sign them as much as it is they aren't interested in coming here. Perhaps they are more attracted to programs that have less tolerance for losing basketball.
 
Shooters who can also do everything else required in a P5 conference are out there, but not as plentiful as some might think. When RU has tried in the recent past to get a pure shooter, it's been someone like Austin Carroll, who could not defend at the high D-1 level. With our putrid history for the last 25 years, top kids are not lining up to come to RU.
 
I thought the OP was going to ask how Nevada's opponent let that happen. Didn't they realize they were shooting 3's? Why didn't they close down the shooters? :)
 
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Maybe it's not that we have refused to sign them as much as it is they aren't interested in coming here. Perhaps they are more attracted to programs that have less tolerance for losing basketball.
Sadly, your comments are spot on.Top tier recruits aren't interested in Rutgers or they transfer in two years because they were surrounded with complementary type players who couldn't contribute against Big East and now B1G level competition.The end result is sustained losing and change of coaches every 3-5 years.
 
. . .

How the frack does it happen where we simply have refused to sign anyone who can shoot the GD ball . . . .
Refused? For obvious reasons, shooters and scorers are in demand, meaning everyone wants them. And you get them by recruiting them to your school. So, how has RU been at recruiting the last 25 years? There, you have your answer.
 
Nevada tonight with a remarkable comeback win at the Pit in NM, made 7 consecutive 3 pointers in the last few minutes to send it to OT (which they then won on a buzzer beating 3 pointer)

Have we made 8 three pointers in B1G conference play???? They made 8 in like 8 minutes.

How the frack does it happen where we simply have refused to sign anyone who can shoot the GD ball and a school like fracking Nevada can pull this off???

Mind numbing.

Check out Nevadas record. They have had a good W-L ratio the past couple of years. Nothing sells recruits like, "Well win if you come here. And it is not only going to be up to you"

Win, and they come. Everything else is secondary.
 
Refused? For obvious reasons, shooters and scorers are in demand, meaning everyone wants them. And you get them by recruiting them to your school. So, how has RU been at recruiting the last 25 years? There, you have your answer.

Well, more than any RU staff in the last couple of decades, I think our current crew is capable of changing this for the better.
 
I think it's actually EASIER for lower level schools to get "shooters." The lower level schools can afford to take pure shooters who wouldn't have the athleticism, at the high major level, to (1) defend; or (2) get a shot off and put it through the net.

Rutgers can't afford to tie up a scholarship on such players. We have to recruit athletic players who can defend and actually get off their shot in high major conferences, and we have not been able to compete for those types of players who can ALSO put the ball in the hoop.

We're between a rock and a hard place when it comes to recruiting shooters and scorers.
 
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The game is played differently in different parts of the country

Go out to the Midwest----Indiana , Illinois , Missouri and away from the Urban areas re is an emphasis on shooting.

Watch games from the Missouri Valley and the MAC----they have guys who can shoot and who are pretty good athletes.
 
Nevada tonight with a remarkable comeback win at the Pit in NM, made 7 consecutive 3 pointers in the last few minutes to send it to OT (which they then won on a buzzer beating 3 pointer)

Have we made 8 three pointers in B1G conference play???? They made 8 in like 8 minutes.

How the frack does it happen where we simply have refused to sign anyone who can shoot the GD ball and a school like fracking Nevada can pull this off???

Mind numbing.

From that Nevada game, the three point heroics were largely carried out by Marcus Marshall and Jordan Caroline, who combined to go 11/20 for the game.

Caroline had no stars and no listed offers other than Southern Illinois, where he played for a season before transferring to Nevada. A power forward, he made 2 of the 7 consecutive threes in the UNM game and also the game winner, going 5/8 from deep.... prior to that, he'd made just 9 three-pointers over 49 career collegiate games and had been shooting 7/28 (.250) from deep through the first 16 games.

Marshall was a three star with no major conference offers, who ended up signing with Missouri State, where he played for three seasons and blossomed into a shooter. He missed half of his sophomore year with a knee injury, though, and was suspended indefinitely midway through his junior year for "conduct detrimental to the team" (at which point he declared his intent to transfer). At that point, he apparently had several major conference teams interested, but chose Nevada due to the new head coach (Eric Musselman).
 
Refused? For obvious reasons, shooters and scorers are in demand, meaning everyone wants them. And you get them by recruiting them to your school. So, how has RU been at recruiting the last 25 years? There, you have your answer.
I agree with your assessment but the problem is the lack of a solution.."Can't win if you can't score" should also include "can't win if you can't recruit".In either case the result is decades long futility,declining fan base and no relevance in college basketball.Its hard to change the status quo.
 
The game is played differently in different parts of the country

Go out to the Midwest----Indiana , Illinois , Missouri and away from the Urban areas re is an emphasis on shooting.

Watch games from the Missouri Valley and the MAC----they have guys who can shoot and who are pretty good athletes.

I would hesitate to say this, but the star ratings again are forecasts for Pro Basketball potential, not college basketball winning programs.....

It's a catch-22....you find the shooters and sacrifice the defense/footspeed etc...but if we are fair about what we saw this year, CJ Gettys is RU's 4th or 5th best player and he couldn't earn a Power 5 conference offer out of HS from Ohio....he's not fast, very limited athletically, but has excellent court awareness and can take a 12-14 foot shot, if left open.

Florida is being carried by a grad transfer, Canyon Barry (one of Rick Barry's many sons that have played college basketball) and Barry played as a very small school before deciding to take his 5th year at Florida....I think he had 28 points vs Georgia Saturday afternoon.

The problem with looking at these results is we are seeing players in Year 4 or Year 5 and saying "see, why can't we have that", when no one watched the development, perhaps that player not playing much early in their career etc....OR no one pays attention to naming the starting 5 of Butler, Creighton, Xavier, Wichita State, Illinois State type of programs that have these shooters littered all over their rosters.

Are fans willing to wait for a Geo Baker to become a 36 to 38% 3 point shooter by his junior or senior season, or will they write him off, if he doesn't drain 40% from 3 point range or knock down 80 3's in a season.......I am exaggerating, because the best 3 point shooters barely shoot 38% of their 3's in a season, usually they are contested shots, against a shot clock and defenders guarding the 3 point line.

We also had fans complaining about a fairly good shooter like Mike Williams, who would make more shots at a Nevada type program or a freewheeling program that doesn't require players to play defense, rebound etc...Williams in a 3 guard alignment, in a league like the Big East or Missouri Valley or A-10, where you can play 3 guards all day long and don't have monsters like Michigan State's Miles Bridges, or Peter Jok types of matchups, would be a more efficient scorer....it's just tougher in the Big Ten, it's an elite conference and our lineups require more than spot up shooters.

Not making an excuse, but there are Jerome Coleman types all over the place....The NJ kid that went to Maryland a couple of years ago (Jared Nickens), made a LOT of threes as a freshman and sophomore....he's a really good shooter IMO.....but plays with an elite, lightning quick Point Guard in Melo Tremble, a player that can find a shooter in transition, where he can get shots up, before a defense is set.

57-146 (39% from 3 as a freshman)....

52-150 (34.7% from 3 as a sophomore)....

This year (not sure about injuries or others passing him in the rotation)....only 15-47 (31.9% from 3....as a junior.....)

Nickens is however 6 out of his last 9 3's made, all in the Big Ten, including 4-4 vs Michigan on the road).....prior to that, the numbers were 9-39 from 3....for a good shooter.

Here are Mike Williams' stats from 3, consider that Year 1 & 2 under Eddie, was a lot of forced-quick shots that many would consider as bad shots, because there was no structure, big deficits when games where decided, etc...

24-100 (24% as a freshman)....

50-158 (31.6% as a sophomore....keep in mind, Mike's percentages prior to the finale vs Minnesota at the RAC, looked very close to his frosh percentages from 3...I think he was under 26% from 3 before that game)....

29-83 (34.9% as a junior)....much better shot selection, more offensive structure and less forced shots and also another guard in Nigel Johnson to help find him as well.....not just Corey Sanders etc...

It just takes time to build a roster and find the players that can play offense, defense and do more than just shoot...and Maryland is 16-2 and Nickens barely plays these days....

I think if we can find someone to spot up, Sanders can find them and/or, the offense would function better with one more shooter.....Nigel has to be better than what he's showed, but yes, another shooter with Sanders would have a major impact on the roster.

I think if we get 35% from Mike Williams and 31-32% from Baker next year in a limited role, things will look better.
 
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I would hesitate to say this, but the star ratings again are forecasts for Pro Basketball potential, not college basketball winning programs...... . . .
My bet is that, for the most part, the ratings reflect offers--as they should. I'm much more interested in what the professionals with their jobs on the line think about a player--do they offer him--than an internet geek writing for Scout or whomever. And I bet the rating sites get that too. The last thing that they want is to have their ratings vary widely from those of the successful recruiting and performing programs. They'd quickly get exposed.

So, in short, with all its flows, I'd expect the ratings to reflect potential to perform in college.
 
I would hesitate to say this, but the star ratings again are forecasts for Pro Basketball potential, not college basketball winning programs.....

It's a catch-22....you find the shooters and sacrifice the defense/footspeed etc...but if we are fair about what we saw this year, CJ Gettys is RU's 4th or 5th best player and he couldn't earn a Power 5 conference offer out of HS from Ohio....he's not fast, very limited athletically, but has excellent court awareness and can take a 12-14 foot shot, if left open.

Florida is being carried by a grad transfer, Canyon Barry (one of Rick Barry's many sons that have played college basketball) and Barry played as a very small school before deciding to take his 5th year at Florida....I think he had 28 points vs Georgia Saturday afternoon.

The problem with looking at these results is we are seeing players in Year 4 or Year 5 and saying "see, why can't we have that", when no one watched the development, perhaps that player not playing much early in their career etc....OR no one pays attention to naming the starting 5 of Butler, Creighton, Xavier, Wichita State, Illinois State type of programs that have these shooters littered all over their rosters.

Are fans willing to wait for a Geo Baker to become a 36 to 38% 3 point shooter by his junior or senior season, or will they write him off, if he doesn't drain 40% from 3 point range or knock down 80 3's in a season.......I am exaggerating, because the best 3 point shooters barely shoot 38% of their 3's in a season, usually they are contested shots, against a shot clock and defenders guarding the 3 point line.

We also had fans complaining about a fairly good shooter like Mike Williams, who would make more shots at a Nevada type program or a freewheeling program that doesn't require players to play defense, rebound etc...Williams in a 3 guard alignment, in a league like the Big East or Missouri Valley or A-10, where you can play 3 guards all day long and don't have monsters like Michigan State's Miles Bridges, or Peter Jok types of matchups, would be a more efficient scorer....it's just tougher in the Big Ten, it's an elite conference and our lineups require more than spot up shooters.

Not making an excuse, but there are Jerome Coleman types all over the place....The NJ kid that went to Maryland a couple of years ago (Jared Nickens), made a LOT of threes as a freshman and sophomore....he's a really good shooter IMO.....but plays with an elite, lightning quick Point Guard in Melo Tremble, a player that can find a shooter in transition, where he can get shots up, before a defense is set.

57-146 (39% from 3 as a freshman)....

52-150 (34.7% from 3 as a sophomore)....

This year (not sure about injuries or others passing him in the rotation)....only 15-47 (31.9% from 3....as a junior.....)

Nickens is however 6 out of his last 9 3's made, all in the Big Ten, including 4-4 vs Michigan on the road).....prior to that, the numbers were 9-39 from 3....for a good shooter.

Here are Mike Williams' stats from 3, consider that Year 1 & 2 under Eddie, was a lot of forced-quick shots that many would consider as bad shots, because there was no structure, big deficits when games where decided, etc...

24-100 (24% as a freshman)....

50-158 (31.6% as a sophomore....keep in mind, Mike's percentages prior to the finale vs Minnesota at the RAC, looked very close to his frosh percentages from 3...I think he was under 26% from 3 before that game)....

29-83 (34.9% as a junior)....much better shot selection, more offensive structure and less forced shots and also another guard in Nigel Johnson to help find him as well.....not just Corey Sanders etc...

It just takes time to build a roster and find the players that can play offense, defense and do more than just shoot...and Maryland is 16-2 and Nickens barely plays these days....

I think if we can find someone to spot up, Sanders can find them and/or, the offense would function better with one more shooter.....Nigel has to be better than what he's showed, but yes, another shooter with Sanders would have a major impact on the roster.

I think if we get 35% from Mike Williams and 31-32% from Baker next year in a limited role, things will look better.

How hard is it to find guys who are at least 6'4" who can shoot 3s and are athletic enough to defend in the B1G?
I know these kind of players don't grow on trees but for the love of Pete can we just find one long athletic guy who is skilled on offense?
 
How hard is it to find guys who are at least 6'4" who can shoot 3s and are athletic enough to defend in the B1G?
I know these kind of players don't grow on trees but for the love of Pete can we just find one long athletic guy who is skilled on offense?

Finding them is the easy part. Getting them to sign on the dotted line is the hard part.
 
Nevada tonight with a remarkable comeback win at the Pit in NM, made 7 consecutive 3 pointers in the last few minutes to send it to OT (which they then won on a buzzer beating 3 pointer)

Have we made 8 three pointers in B1G conference play???? They made 8 in like 8 minutes.

How the frack does it happen where we simply have refused to sign anyone who can shoot the GD ball and a school like fracking Nevada can pull this off???

Mind numbing.
We don't make 8 three pointers in practice so forget the game.
 
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How hard is it to find guys who are at least 6'4" who can shoot 3s and are athletic enough to defend in the B1G?
I know these kind of players don't grow on trees but for the love of Pete can we just find one long athletic guy who is skilled on offense?

6'4'' ones end up good schools and the 6'1'' guys end up at RU.

Not a coincidence we haven't recruited one ever.
 
The game is played differently in different parts of the country

Go out to the Midwest----Indiana , Illinois , Missouri and away from the Urban areas re is an emphasis on shooting.

Watch games from the Missouri Valley and the MAC----they have guys who can shoot and who are pretty good athletes.


I agree with this. I think RU needs to decide what type of player they want to recruit...I think identity is important, RU has tried to be like all the other BE schools or like Seton Hall and failed because those schools had advantage and perception that RU didnt so RU failed at this big time.
 
Nevada tonight with a remarkable comeback win at the Pit in NM, made 7 consecutive 3 pointers in the last few minutes to send it to OT (which they then won on a buzzer beating 3 pointer)

Have we made 8 three pointers in B1G conference play???? They made 8 in like 8 minutes.

How the frack does it happen where we simply have refused to sign anyone who can shoot the GD ball and a school like fracking Nevada can pull this off???

Mind numbing.
On January 4, 2017, the Rutgers women's team made 11 3-pointers against Wisconsin at the RAC on 11-19 shooting. In their last three Big Ten games against Nebraska, Mich. State, and Iowa, they have made 18-44 3-pointers for a clip of almost 41%. In conference play, the RU women are shooting 36.6% on 3-pointers while the men are shooting 3's at 24.1%. The women's team is 3-4 in the Big Ten.
 
Grass is always greener when you are losing. I remember the years that we had a bunch of chuckers but zero interior O or D. We did pull off a few upsets when the guys were shooting lights out.
 
Again, why would a good HS shooter come here if he is being recruited by schools with good recent history? Like Maryland, Notre Dame, etc? You get the leavings that may blossom but usually don't. You are not going to outrecruit even SHU at this point. Our current recruits signed with a new staff at a place with a dismal last decade. Don't expect them to be the new Ben Simmons. Or expect more from them than they have in them. Based on our OOC record, even given our predictable stumble in the B1G, this year's crop may be a little better. Realize this is a message board and people do tend to whine and lash out, but what are your sober, thoughtful expectations?
TL
 
How hard is it to find guys who are at least 6'4" who can shoot 3s and are athletic enough to defend in the B1G?
I know these kind of players don't grow on trees but for the love of Pete can we just find one long athletic guy who is skilled on offense?
Your use of the word "find" is odd. It suggests that these players are hidden and that only effort in looking will get them. To the contrary, they can be found easily amidst a host of B1G and other school coaches chatting them up and trying to convince them to come to their school. It's not so much a matter of finding them than winning them.
 
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