hired Allen to save a class. Guys most high profile gif was 1 year as USF DC. Gave him a six year deal.
Indiana AD just pulled a Pernetti
- Thread starter vkj91
- Start date
Maybe it was contractual, as part of him accepting the DC/AHC gig last year. For what it's worth, Tom Allen seems to have been a key recruiter under Hugh Freeze.....and Ole Miss always seems to kill it in recruiting.
Cold hard cash was the key recruiter at Ole Miss
It's also December. Plenty of time to hire another coach if they wanted to. Either he really is the key recruiter, he always was assumed to be the next in line, or he's got pictures.
AD met with HC at 8, him at 10, and had a handshake by 1030. Indiana isn't LSU, miss one or two official weekends and class is gone. Baylor has 1 kid commited.
A bit different
- Indiana HC (and only the HC) was 'excised' (they are now saying he 'resigned')
and the DC was immediately promoted... and it appears that he was the staff member most likely qualified / desired to step up into the role
- in contrast - GS took an whole assortment of staff members that he valued with him to Tampa - including several coaches who might have been a more desired choice than Flood ... if a promotion from within was the preferred option - - but it was not - - the real preferred option was demonstrated by the time that was spent trying to reel in Mario Cristobal ... but that did not work - so in desperation & in an effort to get closure and move on ... RU settled for Flood
- Indiana HC (and only the HC) was 'excised' (they are now saying he 'resigned')
and the DC was immediately promoted... and it appears that he was the staff member most likely qualified / desired to step up into the role
- in contrast - GS took an whole assortment of staff members that he valued with him to Tampa - including several coaches who might have been a more desired choice than Flood ... if a promotion from within was the preferred option - - but it was not - - the real preferred option was demonstrated by the time that was spent trying to reel in Mario Cristobal ... but that did not work - so in desperation & in an effort to get closure and move on ... RU settled for Flood
It hasn't been 5 hours. You sure the whole staff sticks? Anyone who thinks a guy with one year DC at USF is a killer hire is not paying attention.
It appears that their HC pulled a Mike Rice.
I would bet he was told to resign or he would be fired.
I would bet he was told to resign or he would be fired.
1 KID COMMITTED!?!?!?!? I want Baylor football to shrivel and die so this is hilarious.
Big difference compared to Flood. Allen was a successful DC at multiple stops. Indiana defense, stats and rankings improved immeasurably from last year to this year. He took a horrid defense for many years and made them competitive. Can't say the same about Flood's 1 year as Co-OC. 2010 represented one of the worst Rutgers offenses known to man. Ok, maybe this year was worse.
Anyway, who knows how Allen will perform as a HC since he's never done the job before. Also, my limited understanding is Wilson called the offensive plays. If Allen retains Johns and Johns stays, Johns will have to swim or sink on his own.
Anyway, who knows how Allen will perform as a HC since he's never done the job before. Also, my limited understanding is Wilson called the offensive plays. If Allen retains Johns and Johns stays, Johns will have to swim or sink on his own.
Please. He was DC for one year at South Florida. I love how the bios of all of these coaches make themselves sound like the second coming of Knute Rockne.
As DC at USF--his teams gave up 35 points to a crappy Maryland team and 20 points to a putrid UConn Offense (same points UConn scored on Villanova). Also, USF has dominated this year, going 10-2, with a brand new DC Raymond Woodie. We can slice and skew statistics to make a case, but the point is Tom Allen is extremely light on experience -1 year as a P5 coordinator to become a head coach. Now, if the Scarlet Nation Jinx is in effect, Indiana will run the table next year and win the B1G championship.
Not going to argue about the improved Indiana defense. Was it all on Tom Allen, or was it maturation, experience and growth of the players, or a combination.
But to bump a guy up to head coach who spent most of his career as a high school coach, 3 years as a position coach for a P5 team, and 2 years as a DC to a P5 head coach screams KF 2.0. I'm waiting for the basketball scandal, firing of the hoops HC, firing of the A.D. and hiring of JH in the coming months.
And people here question the hiring of Ash and our OC?
not that facts are important here...especially when bashing Flood but
1992–1994 Temple Heights HS
1995–1996 Armwood HS (DC)
1997 Marion HS (DC)
1998–2003 Ben Davis HS (DC)
2004–2006 Ben Davis HS
2007 Wabash College (SPC, DB)
2008–2009 Lambuth (AHC/DC/LB)
2010 Drake (DC/LB)
2011 Arkansas State (AHC)
2012–2014 Ole Miss (LB/SPC)
2015 South Florida (DC)
2016 Indiana (DC)
2016–present Indiana
And people here question the hiring of Ash and our OC?[/QUOTE]
In 1 year at South Florida they finished fourth in the ACC in total defense (380.5 ypg) and recorded 17 interceptions -- third-most in school history -- by nine different players. The defense recorded 7.5 tackles for loss per game was tied for 13th nationally. If you take a look at the stats from the prior year it's very clear they became a lot more assertive on defense and improved.
As for Indiana, I'm biased. I attend games in Bloomington and watch every Indiana game. if you can't see massive improvement from this defense then you're crazy and that very much is credited to Allen. They lost some good players from the 2015 defense including their best pass rusher Mangieri and some talent along the line. This year they started 2 freshmen, one not highly recruited, the other not recruited by top programs in the country. Yes, Allen also develops players and the communications and trust level among their defense was much improved. The defensive scheme and culture completely changed, as well. Their overall defense ranking went from being ranked 120 in 2015 to 40 this year. to He did a nice job period.
2 successful years as DC, and he's also credited with doing good work at Arkansas State with their defense, is 2 more years than Coach Flood who came into the Rutgers HC position without spending a day of his life as a successful Coordinator and I like Flood.
In 1 year at South Florida they finished fourth in the ACC in total defense (380.5 ypg) and recorded 17 interceptions -- third-most in school history -- by nine different players. The defense recorded 7.5 tackles for loss per game was tied for 13th nationally. If you take a look at the stats from the prior year it's very clear they became a lot more assertive on defense and improved.
As for Indiana, I'm biased. I attend games in Bloomington and watch every Indiana game. if you can't see massive improvement from this defense then you're crazy and that very much is credited to Allen. They lost some good players from the 2015 defense including their best pass rusher Mangieri and some talent along the line. This year they started 2 freshmen, one not highly recruited, the other not recruited by top programs in the country. Yes, Allen also develops players and the communications and trust level among their defense was much improved. The defensive scheme and culture completely changed, as well. Their overall defense ranking went from being ranked 120 in 2015 to 40 this year. to He did a nice job period.
2 successful years as DC, and he's also credited with doing good work at Arkansas State with their defense, is 2 more years than Coach Flood who came into the Rutgers HC position without spending a day of his life as a successful Coordinator and I like Flood.
To me it seems to show the difference of Indian administration vs. Rutgers administration.
When Rutgers lets someone go they have to do a full search where they hire an outside firm to vet the applicants. Very bureaucratic.
At Indiana the process seemed very efficient where they had a plan before they let the guy go.
When Rutgers lets someone go they have to do a full search where they hire an outside firm to vet the applicants. Very bureaucratic.
At Indiana the process seemed very efficient where they had a plan before they let the guy go.
In 1 year at South Florida they finished fourth in the ACC in total defense (380.5 ypg) and recorded 17 interceptions -- third-most in school history -- by nine different players. The defense recorded 7.5 tackles for loss per game was tied for 13th nationally. If you take a look at the stats from the prior year it's very clear they became a lot more assertive on defense and improved.
As for Indiana, I'm biased. I attend games in Bloomington and watch every Indiana game. if you can't see massive improvement from this defense then you're crazy and that very much is credited to Allen. They lost some good players from the 2015 defense including their best pass rusher Mangieri and some talent along the line. This year they started 2 freshmen, one not highly recruited, the other not recruited by top programs in the country. Yes, Allen also develops players and the communications and trust level among their defense was much improved. The defensive scheme and culture completely changed, as well. Their overall defense ranking went from being ranked 120 in 2015 to 40 this year. to He did a nice job period.
2 successful years as DC, and he's also credited with doing good work at Arkansas State with their defense, is 2 more years than Coach Flood who came into the Rutgers HC position without spending a day of his life as a successful Coordinator and I like Flood.[/QUOTE]
Still VERY LIGHT experience to be named Head Coach. We shall see.
Still VERY LIGHT experience to be named Head Coach. We shall see.[/QUOTE]
Not on record as saying this will be successful. if you're not hiring Miles or some other major program HC that has a proven track record of winning, this is all a crap shot. I also question what happens to their offense without Coach Wilson who employed a very successful system. His teams always scored points.
Clearly Indiana is a school that's not about to go out and break the bank for a Miles. However, they do love their basketball.
While the post-change on field results may -or may not - end up the same ...
my point was that the Indiana move in many many ways was not a mirror of the Pernetti process
Schiano suddenly up & left - a shocker to Pernetti - RU was instantly reeling - struggling to figure out what to do - thrashed around - Pernetti dash out & got certified as a coach to be able to interact with recruits - interviewed a few candidates - got a no thank you from the first (or second?) choice - and then Pernetti decided it was better to have a coach - hell, ANY COACH - rather than ride through signing day with an Interim Coach - so after the old staff was depleted - he chose one of the guys who had not gone elsewhere & was not invited to go to Tampa ... (if Schiano had departed all alone & a new HC was to be selected from the entire remaining staff - Flood would have been what? the 3rd choice?... the 4th choice?)
In contrast - Indiana had plenty of time to think this through - - Indiana had conducted an external review of the program by Indianapolis law firm Taft Stettinius & Hollister. During this Indiana University athletic director Fred Glass had to have considered the range of options while all of this was going on - there was no "surprise" - Glass had a set ,well considered description of the review - he said. "(There was) just a concern that things that needed to be approached the way I wanted them to be approached weren't being approached that way."
There does not seem to have been any 'thrashing around (& suddenly grabbing onto the 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice) in the Indiana process - the Coach Selection Process was not "A Pernetti" - but we can follow this and since it is Indiana Football - it is possible that the On Field Results may effectively be the same
Not on record as saying this will be successful. if you're not hiring Miles or some other major program HC that has a proven track record of winning, this is all a crap shot. I also question what happens to their offense without Coach Wilson who employed a very successful system. His teams always scored points.
Clearly Indiana is a school that's not about to go out and break the bank for a Miles. However, they do love their basketball.[/QUOTE]
An interesting parallel--Kevin Wilson's mentor was Randy Walker, who was the head coach at Northwestern, until his unexpected death in 2006. Pat Fitzgerald took over in 2006 with zero coordinator experience (had been a DB/LB coach). He is 76-62 lifetime at NW, with a 9-4 season and two 10-3 seasons, with most of the rest (six seasons) being 5-7 win seasons. But, like Indiana, I don't see Northwestern ever going in the direction of hiring a huge name coach and selling their soul for football. Wonder if most RU fans would be happy if Chris Ash developed into a coach that produced records like Pat Fitzgerald?
Bottom line, sometimes coaches with experience work out. Maybe Indiana is happy being a competitive team, and going to bowls, and not vying for B1G championships.
And this is why Indiana will never turn the corner and be consistently good in football.
I read this, and I think wow...some people really have no memory left?
GS departed alone. He did not take anyone with him when he initially left. There is not one other assistant coach that would have followed GS if they had been talked to about replacing GS. That would put KF at #1 choice instead of 3rd or 4th choice with the remaining staff? GS took no assistants until after LOI day, and he only took most of them because no NFL team would allow him to talk to any of their assistants. GS was hired so late in the process, every other NFL team had already locked up the assistant coaches that they wanted or could get. GS was left scrambling to fill spots so he had to turn to RU after he struck out with most of the guys that he wanted that had NFL assistant experience.
One of the reasons that our then OC (Cignetti) left was because he was not being considered for the HC job. Who else would have actually been considered from that staff other than the Assistant Head Coach/ Recruiting Coordinator (Flood) that the local "king makers" (High School FB Coaches) lobbied for?
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Hiwater...could it be that said assistants already knew they'd be leaving for Tampa and were still 'officially' at RU through NSD just to try to keep recruits and Schiano's departure somewhat more palatable ?
My recollection is that Flood was one of the only position coaches or coordinators coaches Schiano didn't want in Tampa.
My recollection is that Flood was one of the only position coaches or coordinators coaches Schiano didn't want in Tampa.
To the first question..no. GS very publicly tried to seek permission to talk to and hire many other NFL assistants before he approached his former RU assistants. In most cases, other NFL teams denied him permission to talk to assistants that were under contract.There were several others that he talked to that turned him down. There was nothing public as to why they turned down offers to work for Tampa Bay. Most likely it was the reputation of the organization or they didn't pay as well as other organizations. Not one of those coaches would have left had they been offered the HC job.
Your recollection in the second sentence is not based on any known facts. It probably comes from comments from the couple of people here that try to used the fact that Flood stayed at RU as a HC instead of going to the NFL as an assistant (for a lot less money) as proof that GS did not want him. That was total BS. GS has publicly said in the past that KF was the best OL coach that he ever worked around. GS also made him the assistant HC as well as the recruiting coordinator. If GS did not like the guy as a coach, he would have fired him or forced him to move on like he did with so many other coaches. How many years did KF stay with GS? It was twice as long as any of his other assistant coaches.
I wanted Flood gone as much as anyone, but selectively reinventing history about when he was hired is just insane.
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You could be right about Schiano publically seeking permission ...but was he really ? Did he truly want proven, experienced NFL guys with gravitas, credibility around him like you said he looked for ? Or did he want his college yes-men all along ? Judging from the RU staffs he had, and especially with demoting the experienced OC Ver Steeg for a wet-behind-the-ears McNulty before the Texas Bowl after the best season any RU offense ever had., could just as easily been a PR ruse. I wouldn't put it past him.
We will never know.
We will never know.
I don't know what to tell you if you prefer to believe in what you hypothesize above. IMHO that is trying to inject subtle unseen meanings into what he did. The facts on their face don't support that theory, but who knows, maybe Santa Claus is real too:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:.
I think that GS is smart enough to know that the job is bigger than just himself, and that he knew that he needed the best possible assistants working with him to help make his tenure successful.
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On January 26, 2012, Schiano accepted The Tampa position .. and ok - others did not formally announce that day - but the die was cast - and the rapid cascade of events began - there was a lot of 'chatter' that guys were either reading between the lines that there would (or might) be lucrative opportunities with GS - or they simply decided on their own that they were going to listen to all offers with the intention that now would be the time to make a move and find their futures elsewhere.
Especially since it very quickly - for a short - & intense period seemed that it would be either Cristobal or Addazio - - so because it was so late in the cycle - those who felt they were marketable were on the phone with their agents - or GS (of course denying it )- or both - working on their next move
February 4th - Tampa Bay Times reported the hiring of Fleck - and hinted at the expectation about Cignetti & Fraser (Cignetti turned out to have been just a rumor)
On February 7, 2012, Cignetti was hired by the Rams to be their quarterbacks coach
- Rutgers defensive coordinator Bob Fraser Ended up in Tampa along with P. J. Fleck (after a quick one-day as offensive coordinator at Northern Illinois University.)...
(and the following year - Robb Smith )
It always appeared that Pernetti began with the clear intention of bringing in a new Head Coach from outside [Cristobal or Addazio - or - ?] and once that was clear & started cooking - the coaches who were marketable activated their contingency plans .... never saw Flood as the most desired 'next man up' - or as the cream of the crop of the staff as far as a potential "next HC" - just that he was a loyal deputy - the one who would run around pressing the flesh to keep the class together - probably to earn a spot on the new staff -
In the end it seemed that Flood was who Pernetti "ended up" with because of the way it unfolded ... it always seemed that if Pernetti had known that looking outside was going to be a bust, he would have looked at the existing staff differently .... and if he was looking at the existing staff differently - some of them might have invested some time into pursuing it - but clearly the guys who got fully signed into new positions in 10-14 -20 days had decided that it was a lost cause for them to be campaigning to be HC at RU because Pernetti was going outside -
When you say "it seemed like" or "cleary" you are divining the facts as you want to see them. There is nothing in that timeline that allows you to deduce the theories as "clearly" that you are trying to present. There are some partial truths in there, but you can't fill in the holes by divining the rest of the facts.
You do make my point that none of the assistants left until well after Flood was hired though. Smith would have left also, but being a DC was a better resume fattener than NFL assistant coach which was why the other assistants left. Smith left the following year because he needed that resume fattener also, and he knew that it was unlikely to have the same result with a Defense that graduate just about all of the starters. It was a good time to get out of dodge.
If you are ambitious and young, you need those resume fatteners. The lowest paid NFL assistants are paid better than any of the RU assistants helped too. Based on some peoples logic here, Smith was left behind too so he must have sucked too/aka GS didn't want him.
There were zero other people on this coaching staff outside of Cignetti that could have actually seriously been considered for an HC. Crisobol was target #1 from outside. Adazzio was talked to also, but he was never offered. Pernetti did not offer him simply because he wanted Adazzio to keep much of the coaching staff intact to try to salvage the recruiting class. Adazzio refused so Pernetti said bye bye.
Amongst the coaching staff, there were 2 factions lining up behind the only two candidates that the coaches thought could be HCs. The Pitt contingent backed Cignetti while the others back Flood. The mods here had told us about the 2 factions. If Flood was just perceived as just a flesh presser, why would a majority of the assistants line up with with? The HS coaches like Greg Hanson going public throwing his hat into the Kyle Flood ring sealed the deal for Flood.
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