Is this a Major at Rutgers?

[OntheBanks]

I just saw a tweet from The Big Ten Conference announcing an Academic All American Women's Gymnast from Minnesota will be graduating with a degree in Elementary Education.
Does RU even have such a undergraduate Major? I thought you go to Kean, Montclair, Monmouth etc for that
type of degree.
Sorry I don't know how to post the tweet here.

 

[RUChoppin]

I know Rutgers offers the 5-year Graduate School of Education program, where you take specific prerequisites in education during your first three years, then a mix of undergrad/grad classes as a senior, then a full year of grad classes. You come out with an MA in Education, but I believe you're basically indentured to a school they place you in for the first year or two years before you get your full license.

 

[brodo]

Here is the tweet

 

[PhilaPhans]

Unless things have changed recently, Choppin is correct. There's a 5 year teaching program at Rutgers (which you apply to after 3 or 4 years). I didn't decide I wanted to go the teaching route until like two weeks after the application deadline. Ended up doing a similar master's program at TCNJ to get my Elementary Ed cert. By the way, two completely different styles of teaching education between the two schools.

 

[fbc1866]

Some universities have specialized majors

 

[HeavenUniv.]

I have been saying this for years--Rutgers needs to get more grads into the schools to become teachers and coaches. I think this will help in getting better students and student-athletes to eventually enroll at Rutgers. When I was in high school,it seemed like every teacher went to William Paterson or Montclair State. I am not saying that every student will go to the college their teacher went too,but it increases the exposure of the college, and influences,to some degree, high school students. That being said, I was surprised and glad to hear that Berkeley Hutchinson is now at my town's high school--Manchester.

 

[srru86]

I know Rutgers offers the 5-year Graduate School of Education program, where you take specific prerequisites in education during your first three years, then a mix of undergrad/grad classes as a senior, then a full year of grad classes. You come out with an MA in Education,

Another example of goofy RU shot yourself in foot programs/policy.
This hurts us in that a kid that wants to play ball and then coach with a elementary/secondary school certification is required to go five years and get a masters. I know for a fact many districts in NJ actively avoid hiring graduate prepared applicants because the starting pay is higher. For the individual most districts will help you pay for the degree once you are on board, but the RU program forces students to pay more out of pocket. I'd imagine nearly every P5 school does not find it beneath their station to offer a bachelors in education.
These guys have them:
Michigan
Stanford
Virginia
Northwestern
Nobody is calling them vocational schools.
Now school districts are full of teachers that went anywhere but Rutgers. My high school was full of RU grads circa 1970/80. Last I checked they had more Kutztown State grads than RU on the the faculty. Beyond Football any wonder RU has a less than supportive audience among our high schools when it comes to looking for talented kids?

 

[PiscatawayMike]

Another example of goofy RU shot yourself in foot programs/policy. Now school districts are full of teachers that went anywhere but Rutgers. My high school was full of RU grads circa 1970/80. Last I checked they had more Kutztown State grads than RU on the the faculty. Beyond Football any wonder RU has a less than supportive audience among our high schools when it comes to looking for talented kids?

You nailed it, Steve. It's a big problem that has gone on far too long.

 

[Sir ScarletKnight]

I know a bunch of people in the teaching program, it's just not an undergraduate major.

 

[spud358]

Elementary education is a pretty standard major at pretty much every major university.... Sometimes it's called things like "Childhood and Early Adolescent Education" (PSU) or "Early Childhood Education" (OSU), but almost every major university has bachelor's level major in early education. If RU doesn't, I agree... it's weird.

 

[RUChoppin]

I know I looked into applying for the GSE after my soph or junior year, and found out I hadn't taken the required prerequisites. I ended up majoring in English, and then teaching on an alternate route certificate for a while before going corporate. A friend did do the program and was placed in Freehold for 1-2 years, but then promptly left to take a position at JP Stevens in Edison as soon as she was allowed..

More districts are starting to require a higher degree within a certain number of years of hire, too, or have targets they need to hit/maintain regarding percentage of teachers with higher degrees. An MA helps when applying to certain schools, and hurts when applying to others.

 

[e5fdny]

My high school was full of RU grads circa 1970/80. Last I checked they had more Kutztown State grads than RU on the the faculty. Beyond Football any wonder RU has a less than supportive audience among our high schools when it comes to looking for talented kids?

I heard that when Wall High School started way back when they had so many Rutgers people they decided to call themselves the Crimson Knights to be close to RU.

 

[El Curioso Impertinente]

I'm absolutely delighted that these Ham and Egg programs are not available at Rutgers. Thrilled that Rutgers forces you to get a Masters. Well Done Rutgers!!!

 

[e5fdny]

I'm absolutely delighted that these Ham and Egg programs are not available at Rutgers. Thrilled that Rutgers forces you to get a Masters. Well Done Rutgers!!!

Interesting.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the "omelets" offered by Stanford, Michigan and Northwestern.

 

[El Curioso Impertinente]

Interesting.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the "omelets" offered by Stanford, Michigan and Northwestern.

Well you know how those "Johnny Come Lately Schools" cater to the Nouveau Riche, lol.

 

[retired711]

So many of NJ's state colleges have programs to prepare students to teach -- in fact, at least some of the colleges started out as "teachers' colleges -- that RU probably thinks that duplication would be unnecessary and would bring a lot of flak from the state colleges.

 

[srru86]

I heard that when Wall High School started way back when they had so many Rutgers people they decided to call themselves the Crimson Knights to be close to RU.

That's right. I was a Crimson Knight before I was a Scarlet Knight. The superintendent when they started in 1959 was an RU guy. And that is where the mascot/nickname came from. He hired a RU guy for the original principal, who hired a bunch of RU people. There were still some left when I went through.

 

[beaced]

I have been saying this for years--Rutgers needs to get more grads into the schools to become teachers and coaches. I think this will help in getting better students and student-athletes to eventually enroll at Rutgers. When I was in high school,it seemed like every teacher went to William Paterson or Montclair State. I am not saying that every student will go to the college their teacher went too,but it increases the exposure of the college, and influences,to some degree, high school students. That being said, I was surprised and glad to hear that Berkeley Hutchinson is now at my town's high school--Manchester.

Including a major in Phys. Ed. Elementary and high school.

 

[RC1978]

It was a deal when RU became the State U. They were not "allowed" to offer a BA Teaching degree. Trenton St, Montclair St etc made sure to keep it that way.

BTW it might not be worth a teacher to get their Masters right away because school districts need to hire at the lowest step with the new laws put into place. Well worth it once you are hired because you will be on a higher step which = more $.

 

[BoroKnight]

There always has been a stigma attached to education majors. Of course, it's more stark at the graduate level when you compare the prestige of a PhD to a DEd. Not even close. But whether it's ingrained in some bylaw somewhere or not, leaving education majors to the lower-tier state colleges, some of which are pretty good schools, isn't an awful thing.

 

[retired711]

ideally, education would be a prestigious major; there aren't many jobs more important than teaching kids. The U.S. is unlike Europe in that respect.

 

[Scarlet Jerry]

Virtually every major flagship state university offers teaching degrees. Even MIT has an undergrad teacher education program.

I graduated from RU and got my Masters at Penn, then my Admin CAS at Columbia's Teachers College. All great programs, but all very different.

-Scarlet Jerry

 

[Caliknight]

Why wouldn't Rutgers offer a major like this? Kind of important, no?

 

[oldtimer67]

If NJ allows elementary school teachers with only 4 year degrees I am surprised. I know that California and many other states require 5 years to be eligible for a teaching certificate. This is often done as a 4 year Bachelor's degree and an additional year of education training. Anyway, you can't get a teaching certificate in Cali without 5 years of college.

 

[Underdogs88]

BTW it might not be worth a teacher to get their Masters right away because school districts need to hire at the lowest step with the new laws put into place. Well worth it once you are hired because you will be on a higher step which = more $.

This is not true in most schools, especially the top publics. The difference in pay between a Bachelors and a Masters is about 3k in most schools. Actually having an Masters is a huge advantage. Students who come out of the Rutgers 5 year program have a degree in their field of expertise and get a graduate educational degree on top of that. Plus, one criteria that rates schools is the % of faculty with advanced degrees. Administrators want to hire the best candidates.

 

[RU62]

Not to beat a dead horse here but everyone seems to get it except Rutgers. As noted above the Rutgers Undergraduate School of Education was eliminated under Bloustein in an agreement with the education folks in Trenton and left teaching majors to Montclair, Trenton State (CNJ), Kwan etc.except for the graduate program at Rutgers. A real dumb move...but who knows what the trade off was and might have involved additional funding.

Net result is what we have today snd often limits attracting students who want to become teachers and yes even some athletes. The Rutgers "excuse" has been to hsve students major in a subject area then do a 5th year education program for a master's degree which might make them better than others who might be seeking a,teaching position. Nice in theory but poor in practicality as for years Rutgers had many quality 4 year educators in schools. My comparison has always been similar to Notre Dame and other parochial schools losing their priests and ministers who are out there as recruiters for great students and again..athletes.

88 what you say might be valid in theory but in the real world there are and have been many teachers who fid/don't have the funds or time gor the 5th year and are able to get into a position and thrn have the schools pay in part for the graduate degree. The problem may lie in redefining the basic teaching and course requirements. What is more important....subject matter or teaching/education methods courses. And to perhaps disprove some if the false education theories I might ask this question. How many education course are needed to reach at the college level? The answer is very simple......Zero. And sometimes we as parents wonder why our children come home and say..."mom/dad I just can't do well in a this course because the instructor can't teach or get the subject matter across to the class. I had better teaches in high school." I might add that in some situations there is often a language or cultural difference where the instructor may be brilliant but just isn't an educator.

 

[srru86]

It was a deal when RU became the State U. They were not "allowed" to offer a BA Teaching degree. Trenton St, Montclair St etc made sure to keep it that way.

And none of the former Normal Schools/State Teachers Colleges have added any new majors or programs offered by RU since this deal was struck?

The Rowan is a "Major Research University" alone should void any 40 year old agreement.

 

[RUChoppin]

The GSE program actually places you into a job immediately following your 5th year, I believe, so it's not like you will come out with your MA in Education and be unemployed looking for a position. The problem is, it is often a position in a very needy school that might not be the place you ultimately want to land.

The GSE placement program ends up benefiting those schools because they get higher quality teachers than they would normally (as MA teachers usually don't apply) and a chance to potentially retain them after their required time is up. When the time is up and the full licenses is acquired, GSE grads have the choice to stay where they are, well on their way to tenure, or to apply to another (higher tier) school with an MA and two years of classroom experience, and start the tenure clock over.

 

[srru86]

This is not true in most schools, especially the top publics. The difference in pay between a Bachelors and a Masters is about 3k in most schools. Actually having an Masters is a huge advantage. Students who come out of the Rutgers 5 year program have a degree in their field of expertise and get a graduate educational degree on top of that. Plus, one criteria that rates schools is the % of faculty with advanced degrees. Administrators want to hire the best candidates.

From the experience of family members I can tell you for many districts the key criteria beyond minimum qualifications are: 1.Who do they know in the town/district? and 2. will they take the lowest starting salary? I have been told off the record by a senior administrator that they are not interested in paying anything beyond the lowest possible starting salary because that is what the board wants. It's not stated anywhere of course. This is a top 30 public district in NJ.

 

[RC1978]

This is not true in most schools, especially the top publics. The difference in pay between a Bachelors and a Masters is about 3k in most schools. Actually having an Masters is a huge advantage. Students who come out of the Rutgers 5 year program have a degree in their field of expertise and get a graduate educational degree on top of that. Plus, one criteria that rates schools is the % of faculty with advanced degrees. Administrators want to hire the best candidates.

Not disageeing but you are wrong in one part. New state regulations allow a district to hire who they want BA /MA or someone lets say on step 4. BUT they can only budget for BA step 1. So the district would need to make up the difference in the budget and in the 2% cap budgets they have it is not so easy.

If the posistion is one that it is hard to find a qualified candidate , science etc, schools might hire but as a whole having your Masters right off the bat is not helpful to get the job becasue of the new finance laws.

 

[Underdogs88]

From the experience of family members I can tell you for many districts the key criteria beyond minimum qualifications are: 1.Who do they know in the town/district? and 2. will they take the lowest starting salary? I have been told off the record by a senior administrator that they are not interested in paying anything beyond the lowest possible starting salary because that is what the board wants. It's not stated anywhere of course. This is a top 30 public district in NJ.

A 3k difference in salary is not a deal breaker.

 

[Underdogs88]

Not disageeing but you are wrong in one part. New state regulations allow a district to hire who they want BA /MA or someone lets say on step 4. BUT they can only budget for BA step 1. So the district would need to make up the difference in the budget and in the 2% cap budgets they have it is not so easy.

If the posistion is one that it is hard to find a qualified candidate , science etc, schools might hire but as a whole having your Masters right off the bat is not helpful to get the job becasue of the new finance laws.

I work in one of the top publics. We hire the best candidates. Many of our hires have experience teaching school at other districts and most have advanced degrees. The difference in pay between a BA and a MA is negligible.

 

[RUChoppin]

From the experience of family members I can tell you for many districts the key criteria beyond minimum qualifications are: 1.Who do they know in the town/district? and 2. will they take the lowest starting salary? I have been told off the record by a senior administrator that they are not interested in paying anything beyond the lowest possible starting salary because that is what the board wants. It's not stated anywhere of course. This is a top 30 public district in NJ.

You're forgetting "What subject do they teach?"

Years back when I was teaching, we had 5 open math positions at the end of one year.... and the district got 2 applicants by mid-August. Two more were filled by late-entry alternate route candidates (one of whom quit after winter break), and another by a long term sub (who was replaced by a BA teacher in October, who subsequently quit at the end of the year).

Math/science teachers are not easy to find... and they tend to have a higher attrition rate.

A friend graduated Montclair State with an education degree, with a focus in math. He went to a "getting hired" seminar just prior to graduation, where they talked about building portfolios, resumes, etc. Everything was about samples of student papers, sample writing prompts and assignments, etc. He raised his hand and asked if there was anything specific to math positions. The guy running the seminar then asked how many math educators were in the auditorium.... and my friend and one other person raised their hands. He told them to bring a mirror to the interview to prove they were breathing, and they'd do just fine.

On the flip side, we had 2 English positions open the one year, and there were something like 30 applicants.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I don't know when Rutgers switched. I graduated in 1977 from Rutgers College with a BA in history and certification for teaching secondary education, which was a four year program. I went on for an MBA and never did go into teaching but many of my classmates in '77 graduated in four years with teaching certification. Rutgers must have changed the program some time after that.

 

[RUJMM78]

I have been saying this for years--Rutgers needs to get more grads into the schools to become teachers and coaches. I think this will help in getting better students and student-athletes to eventually enroll at Rutgers. When I was in high school,it seemed like every teacher went to William Paterson or Montclair State. I am not saying that every student will go to the college their teacher went too,but it increases the exposure of the college, and influences,to some degree, high school students. That being said, I was surprised and glad to hear that Berkeley Hutchinson is now at my town's high school--Manchester.

Physical Education is a appropriate major for some student athletes yet its not offered at Rutgers. A major state university should be more inclusive in course/major offerings.

 

[srru86]

You're forgetting "What subject do they teach?"

Good point.

The same is true with college faculty hiring which I'm much more familiar with professionally. All the STEM fields are in demand. Also Business/Marketing. Tough to find unless you are a primo university. But any tenure track humanities job gets LOTS of applications from qualified people.

 

[srru86]

A 3k difference in salary is not a deal breaker.

Not sure somebody that has to manage under a budget cap would agree with you.

 

[Leonard23]

but I believe you're basically indentured to a school they place you in for the first year or two years before you get your full license.

The GSE program actually places you into a job immediately following your 5th year, I believe, so it's not like you will come out with your MA in Education and be unemployed looking for a position.

This seems wildly inaccurate based on the Rutgers website. There is no automatic placement post graduation or indentured servitude. It's a 5 yr joint BA/MA degree with a teaching certification. After the 4th year, you earn a BA & during the 5th year you are required to complete a fall semester student teaching internship, which may be at an urban or less desirable district. After graduating with your Ed.M, the GSE makes a recommendation to the NJ DOE to receive a Certificate of Eligibility with Advanced Standing as a teacher--the teacher certification. Students have to earn any post graduation jobs through some form of OCI or otherwise on their own. On campus interviews are very competitive & only the top students get jobs through it. Many others get jobs where they were a student teacher, through connections they have elsewhere or by applying through district websites on their own.

 

[RUChoppin]

This seems wildly inaccurate based on the Rutgers website. There is no automatic placement post graduation or indentured servitude. It's a 5 yr joint BA/MA degree with a teaching certification. After the 4th year, you earn a BA & during the 5th year you are required to complete a fall semester student teaching internship, which may be at an urban or less desirable district. After graduating with your Ed.M, the GSE makes a recommendation to the NJ DOE to receive a Certificate of Eligibility with Advanced Standing as a teacher--the teacher certification. Students have to earn any post graduation jobs through some form of OCI or otherwise on their own. On campus interviews are very competitive & only the top students get jobs through it. Many others get jobs where they were a student teacher, through connections they have elsewhere or by applying through district websites on their own.

Thanks for looking it up - memory was hazy, and this was more than 15 years ago. I know my friend did her student teaching somewhere, but then ended up in Freehold where she was counting the days to get out and go somewhere else. I thought I remembered that she wasn't able to get her full certificate until she had taught a full year or more somewhere, but I could be wrong. It's possible that they offered her a job at Freehold during her student teaching, and she took it while she looked for something better.

Looking at the website, maybe she did the UTF program (or whatever the equivalent was back then)? That talks about a 3 semester teaching residency, rather than just the 1 semester student teaching. I'll ask her the next time we talk.

 

[mikefla]

Columbia University Teachers College is where many of my teacher friends wanted to attend. Ba/Ma/Phd
MANY of the state colleges(esp in the SUNYs) are not very challenging
but I think Columbia Univ is a heck of a credential