Maybe, runs counter to the idea of just letting him run and hit's he takes there, but as a thrower he would be in more vulnerable positions.
Johnathan Lewis
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IMO, it's ideal if most incoming freshmen can red shirt, including Lewis. For all the obvious reasons, including giving him time to get some D1 strength training, giving him time to get familiar with the various systems in use, giving him time to adapt to being a scholar-athlete, etc.
Being able to red shirt players helps to build depth for the future. And I guess I'm skeptical how much of a difference any one player can make next season. It can make a difference, but is it worth burning his red shirt if the difference is moral victories vs. actual victories?
Another way to think about it is to look at the schedule, consider the surrounding cast, and forecast how many more games we might win just because the QB can run a bit faster or throw a bit better. I'd say it could make a huge difference if the entire surrounding cast was pretty good. But if, say, the OL struggles just as much as they did this past season, then I don't see the QB making a ton of difference.
OTOH, I really hope that the staff figures out how to get more production out of the OL, despite losing more experience next season.
Being able to red shirt players helps to build depth for the future. And I guess I'm skeptical how much of a difference any one player can make next season. It can make a difference, but is it worth burning his red shirt if the difference is moral victories vs. actual victories?
Another way to think about it is to look at the schedule, consider the surrounding cast, and forecast how many more games we might win just because the QB can run a bit faster or throw a bit better. I'd say it could make a huge difference if the entire surrounding cast was pretty good. But if, say, the OL struggles just as much as they did this past season, then I don't see the QB making a ton of difference.
OTOH, I really hope that the staff figures out how to get more production out of the OL, despite losing more experience next season.
I don't think so. If they were worried about him taking hits, they wouldn't have had him running the ball against the elite teams, who tend to hit really hard.
Not many true freshmen are ready to play D1 P5 football.
I think he did just fine considering he probably only had a small package of plays designed for him.
He was a 'weapon' at that point in his development, not a QB and the staff intentionally deployed him as such.
Who knows what kind of passing offense he ran in HS; most of his highlights are of him running after containment broke or throwing go routes to the outside receiver.
That's not exactly a recipe for immediate passing success in the Big Ten.
But obviously he's working on his game so I wouldn't be surprised to see his role expanded next year.
I think he did just fine considering he probably only had a small package of plays designed for him.
He was a 'weapon' at that point in his development, not a QB and the staff intentionally deployed him as such.
Who knows what kind of passing offense he ran in HS; most of his highlights are of him running after containment broke or throwing go routes to the outside receiver.
That's not exactly a recipe for immediate passing success in the Big Ten.
But obviously he's working on his game so I wouldn't be surprised to see his role expanded next year.
Yes, he takes hits as a runner... but the types of hits you take as a runner are different than taking a DE sack in the ribs or back as a stationary target during your throwing motion. Don't know if it's any part of the decision making, but was a thought.
a bit of a difference - intentionally running your thin but agile QB on a planned play & getting hit in a customary manner - while not without risk- is one thing ...
- running a play with him setting up to throw down field & then having protection break-down and then getting hammered by a monster from an unanticipated side - has an exponentially higher risk.
got the feeling all season that there was a bit of anxiety when Oden was in - hope that he could provide a spark - but praying that nothing would happen that would make the staff feel stupid for putting him in harms way without solid protection.... when they knew that protection was far from 'solid'
Coach Ash is going to hitch his wagon to his first QB recruit. This is his first class and J. Lewis is his answer. IMO Rescigno and Lewis will (read: should) rotate in at QB during OOC.
That process may continue throughout the year; coach knows next years outlook and he may wait to hand Lewis the reigns until some point in Ash's 3rd season and Lewis true Soph season. Odin is going to be a non-factor unless he can change his body.
That process may continue throughout the year; coach knows next years outlook and he may wait to hand Lewis the reigns until some point in Ash's 3rd season and Lewis true Soph season. Odin is going to be a non-factor unless he can change his body.
Idk, but it was more than he would if he was running scout team all fall. The offseason and spring practices will be big for him.
you put a lot of faith in a bunch of newbie coaches... give the kid a friggin chance .. see what he's made of ... btw you're still one of my fav posters.. CHEERS!!!!
True, that faith is much better placed with guys on a message board.
Are you trying to say Rettig is a loss...and a bigger one than Laviano who, although much maligned by many, had actual game experience? Rettig was our 5th string QB.
Agree. I actually don't think any of the departures hurt and they make sense given all three were recruited to run a pro-style offense. I just can't get over people still pining over Rettig, the 5th string QB (at best, for all we know Dare would've gotten the nod over him if it came down to it) even though Rettig does seem like a great guy and well-liked teammate.
Is possible; and definitely a valid thought. I just think it's unlikely.
My reasoning is that ribs are exposed no matter how much strength training one does, although yeah, putting on more weight can help a little bit. I think pads ultimately help out QBs with that.
I do agree w/you that additional time in strength and conditioning training can go a long way towards helping to prevent back injuries. However, I'm unconvinced that a runner is any less susceptible to such injuries than a QB.
In hindsight (which makes geniuses of us all :)), I wasn't a big fan of the decision to play Oden in 2015. I thought it was risky from an injury standpoint, and still do. But mostly I felt like it would've been more ideal to red shirt him, get him stronger, improve his passing game, etc. However, the staff has a plan I'm not privy to, so I'm sure they had their reasons.
I think the staff really wanted Oden to be the answer, especially as the season went on, but he just didn't develop as quickly as they needed him to. He now has a small amount of game experience under his belt on which to build and hopefully attacks the offseason to compete for playing time next year.
Unless we bring in a grad transfer or JUCO QB, I really think Lewis will see the field next season as a true freshman, hopefully with better results.
I disagree but anything can happen. In my opinion Gio and Oden would need to significantly improve to match Lewis's ability running "this" offense. Lewis is the perfect QB to run the power spread. Ash and Merhringer know this. I would be surprised if they give Lewis the keys day one and say let's get Lewis as much experience as possible. Next year is going to be a tough year anyway so go with the best future option.
We have Jerome Washington who was a four star recruit at Tight End who transferred from Miami.
i gave ash a shot... he blew it... going 3 and out on every posession is not progress
the only thing we got out of playing Odin this season is concern for his ability to add any value on the field at QB anytime soon.
Its Gio, Lewis, and then perhaps (and hopefully) another transfer in. Cause it isn't Allen and it isn't Odin next year.
I think we had a chance to choose between Odin and Pigrome and we might have chosen wrong there.
Dare? The kid was never seeing the field here. He stuck it out a couple of years, gave it his best shot, but time for him to move on and get some PT somewhere. This is far from any kind of "nail" in any "coffin."
i dunno bro... i think if his number got called, he would've impressed and turned heads.. and once again thanks for the tix for my sis and i years ago #werblin
ha! no problem! Here's the thing with Dare, and both John and Bobby pointed it out a couple years back: great kid, great leader for that class, great #'s, but lousy competition in high school. Would have been nice to see him get a shot, no doubt, but I honestly believe he'd be much better off at a Monmouth or Wagner.
I think when we say we want to see him throw, we are saying this: the point of him playing as a frosh was to get his development moving fwd. Him just taking snaps and running is not going to help him develop.
Now maybe he wasn't thrust in there to get the developmental clock ticking. Perhaps he was thrown in there because they knew the position was lacking and they were throwing ish against the wall and were hoping something would stick. Nothing stuck until gio.
But just the same, once his RS was burned, why not get him into the game and actually try to read a defense, actually try to throw against those defenses? Would that experience not help him down the road?
Think it's funny how our fans are already pushing oden to the side because in his true freshman season he didn't perform up to ridiculous expectations our fanbase puts on anyone who is a 3* or higher.
Hate to break it to everyone, but people thinking Lewis is going to come in and grab the starting spot right away are going to be very wrong. If he does, we're in for another long season. I think he has the potential to be very good, but he's going to need some coaching to get to that level. He's a 3* for a reason.
Hate to break it to everyone, but people thinking Lewis is going to come in and grab the starting spot right away are going to be very wrong. If he does, we're in for another long season. I think he has the potential to be very good, but he's going to need some coaching to get to that level. He's a 3* for a reason.
I think Dare will be a great pocket QB and will excel. As we all know now, we need a mobile guy, practically a running back for the new offense. Oden is good but he has a thin build. I realized that the coaches put Gio in on that 3rd down because Oden had taken a hard hit on 2nd down. They are conserving Oden. Lewis is built like a tank.
well if he goes to Monmouth i'll be there on Sat's cuz i'm like 5 mins away
Gio will most likely be the starter but Lewis may be ready to play his freshman year. They will all be competing Gio has the lead because of his game experience this year.
As has been said by many before, the why not is because the coaching staff felt he was not yet ready to throw the ball more. Both Ash and DM have repeated that several times. Absent any information to the contrary, I'm inclined to believe them.
He did throw it a couple times and it looked pretty bad. He looked like an interception waiting to happen.
If Lewis ends up being ready, great. I just don't understand some of the thinking that he will step in right away. He's going to be a true freshman QB in arguably the best college football conference. I'm also not counting out Oden. We'll see what happens. I'm just happy I'm not the one who has to pick a starter.
I think you are probably correct.
People continue to look for instant answers. But there really aren't any. There are no shortcuts. All the focus on the QB is great and all, but unless we can get significantly better O line play, the QB is going to have a rough time of it.
Personally, I think Gio is likely to be the guy next year and I don't know that that's such a bad thing. There are worse things than having an experienced dual threat QB plus two more good ones in Oden and Lewis fresh and uninjured and chomping at the bit to play in 2018 about the time we hope that some of our OL recruits have figured things out.
It could happen. But if I had to bet right now, I'd go with the safe bet which is that the guy with more experience is more likely to win the job.
I'd be more scared if we actually considered starting one of those players in any situation
Then why play him at all?
Why burn the RS?
Again, as I said earlier, it may have been due to desperation in trying to find something at the QB position.
But the lack of confidence in Oden's throwing ability does lead me to question his ability at the position. Which does lead me to this question.
Is Oden still a QB as he enters his Jr year? Or do we try to take advantage of his running ability in other ways, most likely at WR?
Personally, given what I saw from Gio, and the hopes I have for Lewis, combined with coach's unwillingness to let Oden throw, I would have already begun that transition.
I think it's ridiculous that people are writing him off after one year. Lets see how much muscle he can gain over the spring and summer? This is the type of kid that would probably be given time to develop until junior or senior year anywhere else
A)I kind of see it as Gio's job for 2 years then Lewis after that.
B)The pushing Oden to the side, and I admit I'm guilty, is that imo, Gio showed real promise, Oden was not even allowed to throw the ball(which is well below supposed high expectations) and then Lewis comes in and takes the job as Rs soph.
Part of my thinking is also, Oden looks like a WR, we need WR's. Let's move him there.
