There wasn't one Frank Burns coached team from 1974 till his retirement that would not have manhandled the team you see out there today.
That's right, we were far better 35 years ago
That's right, we were far better 35 years ago
Just think people
- Thread starter zappaa
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Frank Burns would never try to run an offense as dumb as the "power spread". Not in New Jersey.
the only thing this staff can run is the program into the ground
I must agree with all of you Frank Burns was a dam good coach. The kid on the side lines has no clue of what he's doing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the talent is not here to run a power spread. I feel terrible for the kids. Phil Knight would have Barchi, Hobbs and 1/2 the BOT replaced.
Hobb's hired a BBcoach with proven HC experience , he takes over a joke of a team, and it's pays off immediately.
Yet he hired as HC for football a guy who never was a HC in HS, or D2, let alone P5, yet not only hires him to a long term contract, but allows him to hire an unproven staff that is in way over their heads.
Hobb's has a big problem on his hands.
Yet he hired as HC for football a guy who never was a HC in HS, or D2, let alone P5, yet not only hires him to a long term contract, but allows him to hire an unproven staff that is in way over their heads.
Hobb's has a big problem on his hands.
That's the risk we take when we let someone cut their teeth as a first time (at ANY level) head coach. You are taking risk doing this at the Big 10 level. And yes Schiano was a first timer too, but we were a fledgling power 5 team that had very low expectations so he was given a lot of early slack. Two other first timers we gambled on we're Flood and Fred Hill Jr ( both were in over their heads as first time HC's). I hope I'm wrong about Ash.
1) Roster turnover is much faster so it should take a shorter amount of time to turn around a basketball program. Takes at least two years for a football program to show what it will look like under a new coach.
2) We haven't done s--- in bball yet. A couple of OOC wins, 1 vs a D2 school. Let's pump the brakes and wait until conference play starts.
Everybody needs to calm down with the knee jerk reactions. Ash is rebuilding a program. It's not going to happen overnight.
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Burns was forced to run our program with what some recruits called a high school facility..... he was a loyal son
the next coach started to get some stadium upgrades and a bit more support....something Burns could have used as a
recruiting tool himself
I watch the entire game starting in the 2nd quarter. But this time I didn't watch the game like I usually do - bird's eye view and just see what happens.
This his time I fixated on one player a snap.
I am astounded by how bad most of the players are on this team. I am sorry to be calling them out, but it is as plain as day.
The DE converted to offensive RT was getting tourched every single play. He couldn't get out of his stance. His feet didn't move. The rest of them weren't much better.
We don't have one QB worth a damn. Pathetic
WRs????? They are the size of hobits to ZERO speed.
The DLine is grossly undersized so they can't protect our LBers - so they are getting blown up EVER F'in play creating massive holes where our safeties are leading tacklers. SMH
This roster couldn't compete for a playoff spot in Div 2.
Then throw a staff looking to run the spread. I don't have an obersvation here.
I am getting f'in tired of being associated with the program and people around me abusing me for it.
This his time I fixated on one player a snap.
I am astounded by how bad most of the players are on this team. I am sorry to be calling them out, but it is as plain as day.
The DE converted to offensive RT was getting tourched every single play. He couldn't get out of his stance. His feet didn't move. The rest of them weren't much better.
We don't have one QB worth a damn. Pathetic
WRs????? They are the size of hobits to ZERO speed.
The DLine is grossly undersized so they can't protect our LBers - so they are getting blown up EVER F'in play creating massive holes where our safeties are leading tacklers. SMH
This roster couldn't compete for a playoff spot in Div 2.
Then throw a staff looking to run the spread. I don't have an obersvation here.
I am getting f'in tired of being associated with the program and people around me abusing me for it.
Mike Rice had experience. EJ had experience on the NBA level. How did those work out. BTW there were plenty who were not happy with the Pikiell hire thinking we were cheap and hiring "only" the Stony Brook coach. I had no issues with it just like I had no issues with Ash even though neither was on the top of my list. I know you can get good coaches from those pools of candidates. You can also get failures.
I could name plenty of college football coaches with HC experience from the mid majors and even P5 level who haven't worked out too. Just look at Charlie Strong at Texas. Jimbo Fisher had no experience as an HC and he won a national championship. Mark Richt has been good and he was only a coordinator too. There are other too who I have named in the past.
I did this during the hiring process too. You can get successes and failures from both pools of candidates. Many mid major coaches succeed and many fail, same for coordinators without HC experience. There's really no pattern to it to say one pool is better than the other. It's up to the AD to try and identify who the right candidate is and that's easier said then done.
People always throw around that "proven" term and there's no such thing outside of a select few like Meyer, Saban and maybe a few others. One coaching situation to the next is different and the step up to a HC is a big one whether it be from the mid majors or coordinator spot and not everyone will thrive everywhere. So it all depends depends on finding the right fit and the right guy for your job and that's up to the AD, like I said easier said than done though.
I the biggest legitimate knock on Ash is the offensive coach selections. They may turn out fine but for a D guy to place his future on an unproven guy because he had a non coach cup of coffee at OSU and then one year with Herman in Houston seems like a high risk high reward choice. Then he proceeds to allow him to put together an offensive still that is filled with more unproven commodities. I think Williams is the only one who coached at the P5 level. You can just see from watching the sidelines that Ash is much more engaged on the defensive side of things. And then there is Okruch. I was gone by the time the punt was blocked but Lucas and company said the guy came right up the middle untouched. That is not a talent issue.
What is your motivation in blaming the players rather than the coaches, who collectively at best, are inexperienced and learning on the job. Hope you noticed the HC pacing on the sidelines during the second half. Reminded me of last year.
What do you want him to do?
OLine is a seive
WR? We don't have ANY
DLine is undersized who can't get pressure on the QB and can't protect the LBers creating massive holes.
QB? None of them could start at Rowan
The defense played its heart out in this game BUT the three and out Div2 offense run by BRO Drew Mehringer is the worse in DIV1..what do you expect of the defense? they are on the field ALL GAME!
DREWS GOTTA GO!
DREWS GOTTA GO!
Stop with the fake glory days, zero bowl wins and played Brookdale every week. His record would have taken a hit vs these teams
I know that you are aware that Frank's problems started when the AD upgraded his schedule without upgrading the facilities. Better facilities would have allowed Frank to bring in more of the High Level Players that were needed to compete with the better teams.He did wonders with what he had but didn't have the horses he needed to stay in the race.A Great Coach and a Great Person.Tough as nails and ALWAYS a Gentleman.
Schiano was technically Mulcahy's 3rd choice-the top two choices didn't want the job.
If you told me that Charlie Strong wanted this job I would fire Ash in a New York second. I probably would have done it even before the season started and we knew Ash's warts. That guy can coach.
Hiring a coach with no head coaching experience is always a bit of a risk, but it sometimes works out
I have posted this before, will do so here again..... when Herman left for Houston and Ash for RU, many Ohio state fans thought Ash was the bigger loss for Ohio state.... there was probably no way to figure which coach would take off as a head coach.
I don't think anyone Is questioning Houston .... and some thought we got the bigger coach.
Obviously we have a rougher path..... the problems run deeper than the running of the spread offense, since our O line is not up to big 10 level with any offense run, our receivers come up short also
The defense probably would have been adequate with a good offense to give them breathers..... we still would have been beaten soundly by a couple of teams, but we could have gotten a couple more wins.
Ash gets three years minimum if we follow the previous RU way..... if you had confidence in Ash before game one, you have to give him that.
I have posted this before, will do so here again..... when Herman left for Houston and Ash for RU, many Ohio state fans thought Ash was the bigger loss for Ohio state.... there was probably no way to figure which coach would take off as a head coach.
I don't think anyone Is questioning Houston .... and some thought we got the bigger coach.
Obviously we have a rougher path..... the problems run deeper than the running of the spread offense, since our O line is not up to big 10 level with any offense run, our receivers come up short also
The defense probably would have been adequate with a good offense to give them breathers..... we still would have been beaten soundly by a couple of teams, but we could have gotten a couple more wins.
Ash gets three years minimum if we follow the previous RU way..... if you had confidence in Ash before game one, you have to give him that.
So with less than 2 years on the OSU staff the OSU crowd was so impressed with Ash they thought he was a huge loss? He was either very impressive or there is a bit of hyperbole going on here (I suspect a little of both). Of course U Meyer is going to pump him up to potential hiring teams. The egos these guys have swell when they talk about their coaching DNA/footprint, so each time one lands out there it is a feather in their cap. Right now we just better hope he can recruit, the game and staff mistakes will decrease with experience. For what it's worth he is much sharper than Mr "simpleton" Flood and I think he deserves a few years, but progress must be obvious in years 2 and 3, there was regression this year. I have my reservations about his lack of experience but I will root for him and expect the best. Go Ash, Go RU.
Excellent post. An honest account of what transpired towards the end of his coaching tenure at Rutgers. Without the upgrades to the facilities he could not attract better talent and still with this disadvantage they upgraded his schedule to play Cuse, Pitt, PSU and I believe Miami. Yes indeed he was a true gentleman.
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Ash may be sharper than Flood, but Flood was more of a stretch the game and nip them at the end type coach. Translation, I think Floods offense and football experience would have beaten Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota and Indiana. Yes, I truly believe those would have been W's. The problem with coach Flood was his inability to recruit, and without a good recruiter a program slowly dies.
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We are currently in the toughest division of the best conference in college football. Our schedule was a killer.
Knute Rockne or Frank Burns, for that matter, would be hard pressed to do much more than what we have seen. We not only have a bare cupboard (cue the Flood haters) but trying to make them run a different offense than they were recruited for just makes things even tougher.
The real problem, as I see it, is always the new coach syndrome. Fans who were screaming for the last coach's head on a stick just seem to think a new guy will perform a miracle and save us all.
I assume you will see some of the current coaches either let go or reassigned after this season. But, it will not be Ash which would only start the damn merry-go-round all over again. For better or worse, we will see if he can become the next Schiano.
As an aside, consider Strong not getting it done at Texas or Kelly at Notre Dame. Both "proven" coaches with tremendous school support and recruiting we could only dream about. One loses to Kansas and the other to Duke and Navy.
Knute Rockne or Frank Burns, for that matter, would be hard pressed to do much more than what we have seen. We not only have a bare cupboard (cue the Flood haters) but trying to make them run a different offense than they were recruited for just makes things even tougher.
The real problem, as I see it, is always the new coach syndrome. Fans who were screaming for the last coach's head on a stick just seem to think a new guy will perform a miracle and save us all.
I assume you will see some of the current coaches either let go or reassigned after this season. But, it will not be Ash which would only start the damn merry-go-round all over again. For better or worse, we will see if he can become the next Schiano.
As an aside, consider Strong not getting it done at Texas or Kelly at Notre Dame. Both "proven" coaches with tremendous school support and recruiting we could only dream about. One loses to Kansas and the other to Duke and Navy.
Just a reply to this part..Mike Rice could recruit and coach. The issue with him was his wacko behavior. EJ was not a college coach as noted and as many were concerned didn't fit (AT ALL) the college game.
I really like Coach Pikell. However, let's be realistic - he has guys on the team that didn't play much or at all last year due to injury or redshirting. Freeman (out most of last year with a foot injury) is our leading rebounder and second leading scorer, Johnson (redshirted due to transfer in) is our leading scorer and a huge difference maker, Diallo and Doorson were injured all year.
Coach P inherited all of these guys that make the current team much more talented than last year's squad. There weren't even enough guys last year to even conduct a real practice. So I expected this year's team to be much improved. Also, Coach P did recruit some nice talent in Gettys. Sa and Thiam. Coach Ash inherited a team with less talent than last years team and it is much harder to recruit in football than BB as you require so many more bodies and they need much more time to develop than in BB.
Coach P inherited all of these guys that make the current team much more talented than last year's squad. There weren't even enough guys last year to even conduct a real practice. So I expected this year's team to be much improved. Also, Coach P did recruit some nice talent in Gettys. Sa and Thiam. Coach Ash inherited a team with less talent than last years team and it is much harder to recruit in football than BB as you require so many more bodies and they need much more time to develop than in BB.
it will take 3-4 years to turn over the roster. that puts us into 2919 until we really see what the hell is going on. if we can get lucky and recruit that one kid who is a program changer,that process can occur faster. in the meantime, we should be supportive and be part of the solution of our dilemma. give the guy a chance. if he doesn't work out, the next guy will at least be in a better position with regard to talent level and culture in the program.
lol...if Ash keeps losing, how is he going to get better talent? He certainly can't coach up so how in the hell is the next guy getting a better cuppard?????
not talent people, it's mostly coaching here
What RU should have done was give Burns better facilities instead of bringing in Anderson, who had no head coaching experience and whose main qualification was being from Penn State.
One reality is that this is the kind of coach that RU has hired over the years. Anderson, Graber, Shea, Schiano, and Flood had a combined 2 years of head coaching experience. Schiano worked out. The rest didn't. The other reality is this is the only kind of coach that RU will be able to attract.
One reality is that this is the kind of coach that RU has hired over the years. Anderson, Graber, Shea, Schiano, and Flood had a combined 2 years of head coaching experience. Schiano worked out. The rest didn't. The other reality is this is the only kind of coach that RU will be able to attract.
I can give you an even better example. Johnny Majors was so "proven," he won a national championship at Pittsburgh. So after an interlude, they bring him back. How did that go?
You can get a great coach from almost anywhere -- mid-majors, D II, assistants -- and since so many different resumes have proved successful it's very silly to say "I want the next coach to have xxxx experience." Sure, it sounds good on the surface, but that's not really that important.
If Ash gets the recruiting class we think he will get, the fan base will believe again - to an extent. But he has shown he is not yet ready to do what the great coaches do. As Bear Bryant said, a great coach can "take his'n and beat your'n, then take your'n and beat his'n." Ash isn't ready for that yet. But considering where we are now, he should have time to grow into the role.
AshSaturday said: ↑
Schiano was technically Mulcahy's 3rd choice-the top two choices didn't want the job.
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If memory serves me correct ( know someone will correct me if wrong):
Whipple was going to be hired, but word of that leaked out before Shea was fired and Mulcahy moved on from him.
Darnell was waiting for a better offer and waited too long
Schiano was technically Mulcahy's 3rd choice-the top two choices didn't want the job.
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Gary Darnell Western Michigan's HC at the time and Mark Whipple who was Massachusetts head coach , I think were the two
If memory serves me correct ( know someone will correct me if wrong):
Whipple was going to be hired, but word of that leaked out before Shea was fired and Mulcahy moved on from him.
Darnell was waiting for a better offer and waited too long
