Keep the faith

[jonS]

We're not as bad as we've been these past three games nor were we as good as we looked against Seton Hall. Pikiell is still a fine coach, the effort and defense is still there , and there are talented but flawed players. Purdue exposed our weaknesses--poor shooting , especially from outside and lack of depth. Our margin for error, as BAC often observes , is very thin. Purdue was a very bad match up ,especially when Doucoure fouled out Doorson is just not a Big Ten capable replacement--way too slow , lead feet , poor lateral movement, poor rebounder for his size. This game shows how much we miss CJ Gettys consistent play. And boy could we use a consistent 3-pt shooter as these past 3 games show what a difference that makes.

 

[RUJMM78]

I would not define any team as talented when their biggest weakness is shooting/scoring ability.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I agree with 90% of what you say. Your analysis of Doucoure and Doorson is where I slightly disagree. 5 negative comments about Doorson and zero for the guy who fouled out in 9 minutes

 

[Rac'nRoll]

The title of your post "Keep the Faith" assumes that those who read it still have some faith left. I'm willing to bet that's not the case for all of us.

 

[jonS]

I agree with 90% of what you say. Your analysis of Doucoure and Doorson is where I slightly disagree. 5 negative comments about Doorson and zero for the guy who fouled out in 9 minutes

Doucoure shows real promise , including an ability to make a 10-15 jumper and make a free throw. Low post defense is a work in progress. Negatives are a lack of maturity and not a significant rebounder nor a shot blocker. Doucoure showed lack of focus by fouling out in 9 minutes --but he has significant upside potential.

 

[higgins3]

I agree with 90% of what you say. Your analysis of Doucoure and Doorson is where I slightly disagree. 5 negative comments about Doorson and zero for the guy who fouled out in 9 minutes

Freshman versus three/four year player. I forget what Doorson is at this point.

Doucoure is a major let down at this point though. That is why you can't rely on a freshman to save you.

 

[bac2therac]

could you imagine if Doucoure wasnt eligble this year....scary very scary. Its obvious that Doorson is just going to be a few minutes player and that should have been obvious to eveyrone but somehow people stuck their head in the sand. I said Gettys would be tough to replace and that clearly has happened. You cannot rely on a freshmen to have to do what he isnt capable of at this time, its not fair. He really should not be starting but what is other choice...Sa? I think Johnson redshirting shows major red flags

 

[Mr_Twister]

Last night’s “contest” was varsity versus J.V. Away game, 13000 attendance at Mackey. Talent-wise, a lopsided affair. Rutgers lineup is not populated with players who would get serious playing time if they were in a Purdue uniform. Expected results. The details ...

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2017-2018/purdue16.html

Being in a basketball-rich area, Purdue’s roster is still geographically diverse and has serious length — Indiana, Connecticut, Texas, Ohio, Illinois, Massachusetts, Netherlands, Alabama.

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/pur-m-baskbl-mtt.html

Let’s move on.

 

[higgins3]

could you imagine if Doucoure wasnt eligble this year....scary very scary. Its obvious that Doorson is just going to be a few minutes player and that should have been obvious to eveyrone but somehow people stuck their head in the sand. I said Gettys would be tough to replace and that clearly has happened. You cannot rely on a freshmen to have to do what he isnt capable of at this time, its not fair. He really should not be starting but what is other choice...Sa? I think Johnson redshirting shows major red flags

Bac, Doucoure hasn't given much anyway. Whether he redshirted or not, the results would be similar. What is the best game he had, and who was the opponent? Lol.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

could you imagine if Doucoure wasnt eligble this year....scary very scary. Its obvious that Doorson is just going to be a few minutes player and that should have been obvious to eveyrone but somehow people stuck their head in the sand. I said Gettys would be tough to replace and that clearly has happened. You cannot rely on a freshmen to have to do what he isnt capable of at this time, its not fair. He really should not be starting but what is other choice...Sa? I think Johnson redshirting shows major red flags

If Doucoure wasn't eligible we'd see more Sa, Doorson and Eugene. Quite frankly I don't think we would be any different.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Bac, Doucoure hasn't given much anyway. Whether he redshirted or not, the results would be similar. What is the best game he had, and who was the opponent? Lol.

Minnesota he was pretty good i believe

 

[higgins3]

Minnesota he was pretty good i believe

That is true. So many games with so much fouling, though.

I don't see it changing going forward at this point. Probably something that has to be worked on in the off season. He is not as light on his feet as one would expect.

Tomorrow is big. I will be there with my girlfriend, and her parents.

She and I went to Rutgers.
Her parents got their post grad degrees from UW.

Hoping for a win!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Doucoure shows real promise , including an ability to make a 10-15 jumper and make a free throw. Low post defense is a work in progress. Negatives are a lack of maturity and not a significant rebounder nor a shot blocker. Doucoure showed lack of focus by fouling out in 9 minutes --but he has significant upside potential.

Duocoure is 6'9''. he has 9 blocked shots in his career, 5 if you leave out the Bryant game.

Is his position forward or center?

Maybe he develops, but a lot appears to be wishful thinking.

Maybe i am wrong here.

 

[bac2therac]

thats not fair..you have to be kidding me judging him so hard...sort of incredulous you do not see his potential under a functioning team as a junior and senior

Doucoure clearly has talent...he has a shot, he has offense moves. There is a lot to be tapped from him. However he isnt ready to be a starter....he should be playing 10-12 minutes a game off the bench..he should not be starting...its not helping. I would start Sa from here on out because Doucoure picking up 2 fouls immediately is just stupid...he needs to watch and observe the game. I think Pike is going a door job in his utilization. Hopefully he rethinks.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

My analysis is that Pikiell has successfully changed the culture here and has the team playing harder. Now players will now come in and defense and rebounding will be expected. All of this is HUGE and VERY IMPORTANT. i see an infrastructure for success.

However I think people are reaching, hoping that the players brought in are the solution. If a successful team is 3-4 impact players, 2-3 crucial role players, and 2-3 minute takers/future impact or crucial role players....
I see on this roster as junior and seniors
ZERO impact players
1 crucial role players
2 or 3 minute takers
2 or 3 roster fillers

I don't see Duocoure ever being an impact player or a crucial role player.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Bac, Doucoure hasn't given much anyway. Whether he redshirted or not, the results would be similar. What is the best game he had, and who was the opponent? Lol.

He has played in every game and averaged 15 minutes a game. If he didn't play then those minutes would have to go someone else. Giving 15 additional minutes to Sa or Doorson a game is no laughing matter.

 

[bac2therac]

My analysis is that Pikiell has successfully changed the culture here and has the team playing harder. Now players will now come in and defense and rebounding will be expected. All of this is HUGE and VERY IMPORTANT. i see an infrastructure for success.

However I think people are reaching, hoping that the players brought in are the solution. If a successful team is 3-4 impact players, 2-3 crucial role players, and 2-3 minute takers/future impact or crucial role players....
I see on this roster as junior and seniors
ZERO impact players
1 crucial role players
2 or 3 minute takers
2 or 3 roster fillers

I don't see Duocoure ever being an impact player or a crucial role player.

this is insane...do you remember hamaday....freshmen center do not have to produce from day 1 and shouldnt have too..he already possesses more offensive skills than any true big guy since Brent Dabbs

its not like we are talking about Doorson as a freshmen or Andre Lam

wow just wow you are being short sighted

 

[RUJMM78]

Bac, Doucoure hasn't given much anyway. Whether he redshirted or not, the results would be similar. What is the best game he had, and who was the opponent? Lol.

The issue going forward is that Doucoure is only 6'9'' tall which is more a power forward than a center.

 

[higgins3]

The issue going forward is that Doucoure is only 6'9'' tall which is more a power forward than a center.

I think Doucoure will get better, and be a piece on a good Rutgers team.

So many teams run two forwards these days. I don't see it as much of a concern.

 

[higgins3]

My analysis is that Pikiell has successfully changed the culture here and has the team playing harder. Now players will now come in and defense and rebounding will be expected. All of this is HUGE and VERY IMPORTANT. i see an infrastructure for success.

However I think people are reaching, hoping that the players brought in are the solution. If a successful team is 3-4 impact players, 2-3 crucial role players, and 2-3 minute takers/future impact or crucial role players....
I see on this roster as junior and seniors
ZERO impact players
1 crucial role players
2 or 3 minute takers
2 or 3 roster fillers

I don't see Duocoure ever being an impact player or a crucial role player.

Long offseason before any of that is determined. I see pieces that will make the team better than it could be this year. That is all.

 

[RutHut]

The title of your post "Keep the Faith" assumes that those who read it still have some faith left. I'm willing to bet that's not the case for all of us.

I thought I was the Duke of Earl
When I made it with a red-haired girl
In the Chevrolet
Oh yeah
We were keeping the faith
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Keeping the faith

I'm satisfied with Pike's first real class of Baker and Duke. We'll see about Kiss. I'm keeping the faith for now.

 

[KevH]

Freshman versus three/four year player. I forget what Doorson is at this point.

Doucoure is a major let down at this point though. That is why you can't rely on a freshman to save you.

If you know you can't rely on a freshman to save you, how could he be a major letdown? Not only is this a contradiction, but it's unfair to the kid.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

this is insane...do you remember hamaday....freshmen center do not have to produce from day 1 and shouldnt have too..he already possesses more offensive skills than any true big guy since Brent Dabbs

its not like we are talking about Doorson as a freshmen or Andre Lam

wow just wow you are being short sighted

hamady was 7'+ with a big wing span...and we were saying same thing about Shaq as a freshman. let's not confuse knocking down an open 15 footer with offensive skills.

No doubt i am being short sighted and a tad emotional, but i am a disappointed and disgruntled fan.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He has played in every game and averaged 15 minutes a game. If he didn't play then those minutes would have to go someone else. Giving 15 additional minutes to Sa or Doorson a game is no laughing matter.

Mike Williams could take those minutes moving Freeman or Eugene to the 5.

No one has mentioned Jonathan Laurent not being missed slightly.

 

[ScarletDave]

I watched the women’s game instead so I’m pretending that game never happened so my view of the men’s team is unchanged. Beat Wisconsin and all is well

 

[higgins3]

If you know you can't rely on a freshman to save you, how could he be a major letdown? Not only is this a contradiction, but it's unfair to the kid.

Good point. I just thought he would give more.

I think more importantly is how the upperclassman are affecting their team. It's a combination of things.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

I thought I was the Duke of Earl
When I made it with a red-haired girl
In the Chevrolet
Oh yeah
We were keeping the faith
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Keeping the faith

I'm satisfied with Pike's first real class of Baker and Duke. We'll see about Kiss. I'm keeping the faith for now.

The problem with that statement is that there is more to that class than Baker and Duke. And Kiss. You excluded Johnson (who is not ready to play ahead of Doorson and Sa) and Mensah. That's a concern.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Mike Williams could take those minutes moving Freeman or Eugene to the 5.

No one has mentioned Jonathan Laurent not being missed slightly.

So Mike Williams is going to be playing 30-35 minutes a game? Freeman and Eugene to the 5 in the Big Ten. Good luck.

 

[RutHut]

The problem with that statement is that there is more to that class than Baker and Duke. And Kiss. You excluded Johnson (who is not ready to play ahead of Doorson and Sa) and Mensah. That's a concern.

Agreed. Thought Johnson would be at least as good as Doorson, so also concerned about the red shirt. Souf was a filler but agree we need to do better. If 3 pan out than still a decent 1st class.

 

[goru7]

So Mike Williams is going to be playing 30-35 minutes a game? Freeman and Eugene to the 5 in the Big Ten. Good luck.

Yeah. Mike should start and can play 35 minutes a night sliding between the Two or three. He is a senior! What is your issue with Mike playing those minutes as a way to lessen Geo's minutes?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So Mike Williams is going to be playing 30-35 minutes a game? Freeman and Eugene to the 5 in the Big Ten. Good luck.

Not optimal.

My 2 cents. Pikiell making a big mistake not starting Williams and making him a bigger part of the rotation. Now I get that Williams hasn't had the best year so far. Still think he is the heartbeat of the team.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Yeah. Mike should start and can play 35 minutes a night sliding between the Two or three. He is a senior! What is your issue with Mike playing those minutes as a way to lessen Geo's minutes?

Because FIG was talking about replacing playing Mike more in favor of taking away 15 minutes from someone like Duke at center sliding Freeman and Eugene tot the 5 which is a little absurd considering that FIG has been arguing the Doucoure wasn't big enough (or athletic enough) to play the 5 in the Big Ten.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Not optimal.

My 2 cents. Pikiell making a big mistake not starting Williams and making him a bigger part of the rotation. Now I get that Williams hasn't had the best year so far. Still think he is the heartbeat of the team.

I root for him. But the production isn't there. He is maybe 6 feet tall, is shooting 25% from three and has 11 assists for the season. You want to give him a few more of Thiam's minutes? No real argument from me but Thiam's a sophomore and Mike's a Senior and there are reasons to try and keep Thiam interested and develop him too. But playing Freeman and Eugene a lot more at the 5 is a recipe for disaster on both ends of the floor now that we're in the big boy portion of our schedule.

 

[goru7]

I root for him. But the production isn't there. He is maybe 6 feet tall, is shooting 25% from three and has 11 assists for the season. You want to give him a few more of Thiam's minutes? No real argument from me but Thiam's a sophomore and Mike's a Senior and there are reasons to try and keep Thiam interested and develop him too. But playing Freeman and Eugene a lot more at the 5 is a recipe for disaster on both ends of the floor now that we're in the big boy portion of our schedule.

I agree that playing Deshawn and Eugene at the 5 with the bigger centers is not a good idea in my opinion. But Pike has to find a better offense, and starting with our 5's , Duke, Sa, or Shaquille getting the ball there and at least attempt a move or take a shot. The floor has to be spread more as well with more of a 2 man game on one side of the court and everybody else on the other side ready for a cut off a screen or to catch and shoot and crash the boards.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Per the "eye" test or more specifically my "eye" test - it'll be between us and Iowa for the B1G 10 Basement.

The squads that I thought we could be better than such as Nebraska; Illinois; Indiana are much more athletic than us and have improved greatly since the season commenced.

 

[BoxStater]

The issue going forward is that Doucoure is only 6'9'' tall which is more a power forward than a center.

But don’t forget that Doucoure is supposed to be finishing his senior year in high school so he may still grow taller

 

[King of S]

27 years of trying to keep the faith is a long time. Every new coach brings optimism until the losing starts again. Just about finished with keeping the faith.

 

[KevH]

Good point. I just thought he would give more.

I think more importantly is how the upperclassman are affecting their team. It's a combination of things.

I'm more than willing to let this play out. This is likely to be a 4+ year rebuild no matter what happens between now and then. I'm trying not to get too high (SHU win) or too low (last 3 games) because this is truly... wait for it... going to be a process.

One thing that has changed for me is that I've given up on this current roster becoming better shooters, from the field and charity stripe. I accept that we are what our stats say we are and better shooting will have to be recruited, not developed.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Greene

I’m with bac here

I see doucoure that has things you have or don’t...hands, balance, coordination. He has touch on his shot.

Remember jack ...he could not stay on the floor as a frosh, but you could see how those raw skills could be refined into the transition from athlete to basketball player

See a lot of that in Doucoure. His future sure may be as a high post four ...which really will complement well with Carter who is a low post five guy and hopefully Eric Dixon ..a true low post player

Patience here ....

 

[KevH]

27 years of trying to keep the faith is a long time. Every new coach brings optimism until the losing starts again. Just about finished with keeping the faith.

Pikiell and his staff are different, and so is our AD. And so too will our facilities be.