So I went on 247 and saw Shaq Carter was ranked #5 for Juco players (3-Star) but I noticed number 4 was a kid going to Wichita St. his name was Jaime Echinique, any relation to Gregory?
Looking at Juco rankings
- Thread starter RepeatedCrown6
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Any thoughts specifically on Carter? Ranking wise or just in terms of what you reasonably think he’ll be able to give us
Carter has probably averaged 6 pts, 8 boards a game so far. He has been consistent, although the last few games smaller than average production. He is on a very good team, so that probably plays a part. If they crush the other team, the backups go in earlier. I have been checking every so often on his progress.
I believe it was Johnnie Blake. He was the top JUCO 3-point shooter and I believe may have shot over 50% from 3.
He was overwhelmed on the D1-level and was a complete bust here.
I find it hard to get excited about the potential offensive production from a guy currently averaging 6 pts a game. May have many other fine attributes but i would hope Doucore has more offensive upside than this.
Just based on what I'm reading, I don't think we'll get Freeman-like numbers out of him next year. Especially on the defensive end which is Freeman's best attribute. Carter may need a full year with Pike et al to get to Freeman like #'s. But, I would expect our other front court guys, especially Eugene, to continue to improve. I have Eugene penciled in as our starting 4 next year. And that's not a knock on Carter. I just think Eugene will be much better, more experienced.
Gotta think this one through a little (not saying you and anyone isn’t )
The four and five spot has scored 553 points in 21 games (26.3 ppg) ...the stats are skewed with OOC games half and not a third of total schedule so when the season is over ...we are likely looking at 25 ppg
Even though we lose Freeman (and sa) ...I think we still get that same 25 ppg type production. Think Eugene gets up to 9, doucoure gets better, add Shaq, and Johnson adds
There is reason to think this is possible. Coaching matters
We don't need him to replicate Freeman's PPG, just be more efficient. There's value in volume (after all, *somebody* has to shoot the ball) but right now DeShawn Freeman has the 4th-highest shot percentage in the Big Ten in terms of volume, but he's only shooting 35%. That's a problem.
Rebounding is Freeman's best attribute by far. He is only occasionally a good defender IMHO.
I hope you're right, but I have my reservations. Eugene is the only one of the 4 you mentioned that we can count on. Duke has been a non-factor and really looks lost in B1G play. How was he a 4*? Shaq Carter and Johnson are unknowns. I know Pike has given praise to Johnson, (similar to his praise for Eugene last year) so that's a great sign. And yes, coaching matters. I trust our staff will get it done, but how long will that take with these guys?
And let's not forget what Freeman brings defensively. For as much as his offensive game frustrates us, he really is rock solid on D.
Not sure what games you've been watching.
Freeman's best attributes are rebounding and getting points off of putbacks.
From a defensive standpoint, he's a decent "on ball" defender - but he doesn't have the size to defend some of the bigger forwards, and his help defense has not been good. From an offensive standpoint, he gets points... but on a *lot* of shots, which isn't good for a big - and he tends to disrupt the flow of the offense by not passing out of double teams.
Even so, Freeman's one of our better players right now, and one of the only ones with confidence to try to make something happen on offense. Really hoping the additions next year (and the improvement of existing players) will change that calculus, and Carter can come in and benefit from improved guard play overall.
Considering all the big-time offers (Purdue, Xavier, Washington State, Auburn, Iowa State, LSU, Wichita State, Memphis) Carter received, there are a lot of coaches who think he will be a quality player.
Do you expect 4 stars to be full go when they step on campus or something? This kid is routinely facing 21-22 year olds every night. just stop and think for a second what kind of physical task that is. Guards? Sure..but big men need to pack on muscle.
Doucoure needs to learn body control and defensive positioning more than anything else - which is something Hamady needed to learn, too. As much as he might have some offensive tools in his toolkit, if he can't stay on the court more than 2-3 minutes at a time, it doesn't really matter.
It's important to keep getting him into games to get a better feel for the speed of B1G ball, but he won't be able to contribute until he can learn to defend without fouling.
Just following on re: Doucoure, take a look at his performance in the weaker OOC games vs. the conference games and FSU/SHU:
In 11 OOC games (not including FSU/SHU) he committed 1 PF every 7.4 min. In the 8 B1G games plus FSU/SHU, he committed 1 PF every 3.7 min.
Once the speed of the game picked up, hes' fouling twice as often. Hamady went through similar growing pains as a freshman.
In 11 OOC games (not including FSU/SHU) he committed 1 PF every 7.4 min. In the 8 B1G games plus FSU/SHU, he committed 1 PF every 3.7 min.
Once the speed of the game picked up, hes' fouling twice as often. Hamady went through similar growing pains as a freshman.
4 star guards often come in and show well right away. But, 4-star big men are often ranked on potential and take time to develop. Even with all of Ducuore's struggles, I still like his upside. He is athletic, has a soft touch on his shot for a big man and moves his feet well. He needs to learn to shy away from silly fouls, improve his confidence on the offensive end and improve his technique on rebounding and posting-up on offense in the low block. He will be helped greatly if RU can better spread the floor next year on offense with some better outside shooting. I would not quit on Ducourre. By Jr. year he should be a good one.
Depends what you mean by "full go"? Do I expect a 4* to dominate? No. Do I expect a 4* to not look completely lost and make an occasional positive contribution? Yes.
Duke looks like a 2 year project. I'd be thrilled if I'm wrong. IMO, 4* players should be ready to play and contribute.
he does make an occasional positive contribution. This is the year hes getting his feet wet. Do you think he cant turn into a bigtime big man solely based on the fact that things are tough as a freshman big man in the big ten?
You obviously have not heard of 4 stars based on potential. Potential does not mean instant contributors all the time. If you think that, im not sure what to tell you.
Trying really hard to remember the last time he did something positive. The potential is there. No argument there. I just think it's 2 years away.
His last strong game was @ Minnesota. 26 min, 13 pts, 9 rbs (6 O, 3 D), 1 block, 1 TO, 5 PF
Kadeem Jack was our last 4* big.... in his first year, he averaged 8.3 min, 1.2 pts, 1.6 rb, 1.5 PF. By his 3rd year he was averaging 14.3 pt, 6.8 rb.
I think Doucoure will improve - but the game has to slow down for him, and he has to settle down on defense.
We took a random canadian and had him go from little ball skills in his first year to a strong starter in year two and you're worried about our 4 star potential first year center. How about let coach young work with him for more than a year before we talk about how lost he is.
Yes I forgot you know exactly what trajectory kid's careers should or should not be taking based on their subjective star rankings. My mistake. Your analysis is spot on.
There are four stars that are ready to go and four stars that may need to develop but have enormous ceilings. Not all four stars are the same..many are rated that way for quite different reasons.
Doucoure will still be a factor on the team. He might not be the best player on it, but I see more contributions next year. I expected a little bit more as a four star, but he has also done some good things. I see potential.
I hope him and Doucoure take less jump shots. Unless they start to shoot them at a rate that warrants it.
I hope him and Doucoure take less jump shots. Unless they start to shoot them at a rate that warrants it.
I forgot about Jack but I see Duke as being a little more of a traditional 5 than Jack who seemed to be more of a 3/4. I was going to go back further and say that both James Bailey and Roy Hinson were pretty raw as freshman but that was a different era with no 3 point shot. We haven't had a big with really solid post moves in quite some time.
Several points on this post:
1) Good point in Jack as a 3/4 and Doucore more of a true 5.
2) Also a good point that RU has not really had a solid post player with good post moves in a while. Though last year Gettys was able to do this a little.
3) James Bailey was not raw as a freshman - within his 1st few minutes of playing time in the 1st few games he played, anyone with eyes could tell he was really good, and was very possibly going to be a star at some point. And he averaged 9+ points and 6-7 rebounds per game, for a team where he was the 5th scoring option.
4) Hinson WAS very raw as a freshman, and through incredible work on his part (and good coaching - but really incredibly hard work on his part), turned himself into a star - and eventually a near-All Star in the NBA.
5) MOST post players do take some time to develop into the high level players they are projected to become - if they develop at all, of course (not all do develop). Sure, some 5 Star post players star as frosh, and some 4 stars, also. But most post players do take some time to develop.
I think Doucore also brings up the issue of this new infatuation with reclassification.
Maybe Doucore should’ve stayed in high school for his senior year?
Maybe Doucore should’ve stayed in high school for his senior year?
He will be a better player next year than he would have by staying in high school. I think he is already 20 years old.
Agree. I'd rather go into next year with a Sophomore Doucoure that's had a year to get up to speed than a true freshman who'd probably be right about where he is now next year anyway.
We weren't going to make any post season noise this year, so a good year for him to cut his teeth and improve... and to wait for the roster to fill out next year.
Can the player catch and finish in traffic....??
Can the player rebound against similar B1G men....???
Is the player able to score without needing a play being run for him, so shots are spread out among the players that should be shooting the ball (Kiss, Baker, Sanders, Thiam, Mathis).???
This shouldn't be a Freeman vs Carter PPG argument, there was a game where Freeman took 9 shots in the 1st half in 12 minutes of play. That's not a knock on Freeman, that's what the defense is giving the player, based on what scoring options are (or arent') on the floor at the time.
Carter's defense and rebounding is 1st that has to be in place, in order for his impact to be felt.....key rebounds against other B1G front court players. While Freeman is a willing rebounder, Carter will be more fluid off the glass and getting the ball to the guards, so we can push the tempo.
On the offensive end, if he's left one on one, can he maneuver around the basket and create an offensive move OR, can the player make a pass out of a potential double-team?? Carter is going to be fine there.
I think finishing shots in traffic will be where Carter is better than Freeman, and Freeman appears to be a more refined one on one scorer ....(whether those one on one takes, are what you want, is dependent on how many shots do you think should go elsewhere).
Carter also provides a mature and team-focused front court player.....We could lose Freeman and Doorson (along with Sa) and I don't see anyway Carter isn't a key, key player next year.
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