Football Max Melton & Chris Long Suspended
- Thread starter Tango Two
- Start date
They 100% deserved to get caught no matter what the motivation was. That said, let’s clarify that nobody on this board right now has any idea what the motivation was behind this. Maybe they just decided to go out and buy paint ball guns and do this for “the sheer fun of it”. Another possibility could be they were peer pressured into doing it (are scholarship kids at RU allowed to pledge fraternities?). That wouldn’t make the offense any “better”, but would change the observation you make that this would’ve likely been a repeat offense.
Sincerely unlikely a fraternity stunt. Just dumb use of common sense. These are not bad kids from what we know but what transpired the other evening was wrong.Needs to be highlighted but also proper use of punishment. The “ it’s a felony crowd” needs to call it for what it is . Stupidity to the umpteenth degree. The state has released and hand slapped much more severe “ felons” over the past two years. PTI seems appropriate along with restitution and community service . Suspension from team for a period is justifiable. Separation from team is a team decision however their overall history is important.
Yeah - They do not have a history of bad behavior which is why I wonder if it was a dare of some sort where they were pressured by someone to do this rather than them randomly cooking up a plan to go out and buy paint ball guns and go out on a week night and start firing them at people for fun. We may never find out the back story. It will be interesting to see how GS handles this though.
kids do stupid things.
it doesn't have to make logical sense.
we can all clearly see that this was a bad idea that could only have bad results. but at that time, it must have seemed like a funny idea.
wasn't there social media "challenges" to eat Tide Pods? milk crate "challenge" which has no doubt resulted in stolen milk crates and injuries.. and Rutgers just had the Scarlet Knight do it.,. there is also a rash of bathrooms being vandalized because of a tiktok challenge.
who knows where kids and young adults get these crazy ideas... after seeing some punishment for this perhaps these kids/young adults will think about things differently in the future.
The simple summary is they could have injured someone worse, tarnished their own reputation and maybe even their family’s reputation, and let down all their teammates on the eve of the biggest game of the season so far. Idiots may be too weak a word to define their behavior, but this is where we are at. On to Michigan without them.
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anon_ivydyf0amkzay
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I thought Twitter is where brains went to die, but clearly that Chinese piece of garbage tiktok has taken over that title!
I'll defer to RU on the former and a judge on the latter.
But I definitely see people playing it down or saying GS should look past it. It's a serious matter to make another human being bleed IMO, whatever a court says.
Yeah. this is not the difference between a championship and not. And you know that well. Are you seriously suggesting that had we been less ethical maybe Townsend catches that pass against WVU?
Stanford was in the Rose Bowl and a NC contender with a team full of engineers. Not that we have to do that, but the idea that you need to be unethical to win is unproven.
Sometimes people do dumb shit.
Sometimes that dumb shit is actually illegal and dangerous to others and can result in harm to others.
Sometimes that harm to others occurs, despite that not being the intent of the perpetrators of the dumb shit.
Clearly paintball guns are nowhere near as dangerous as real guns (despite the low but non-zero probability of blinding someone), so to me it's pretty clear the players were not trying to hurt anyone (there are far more effective ways to hurt someone and the actual harm here was minimal) - it was a dumb shit prank that went awry and it's doubtful they knew this could constitute aggravated assault.
One of the unwritten tenets of our legal system is that we strive for outcomes that achieve the greatest societal good. IMO, assuming this was a dumb shit prank gone awry, the greatest societal good would likely be something like a significant, but not football career/college-threatening outcome, like significant community service, including some public service component to try to educate the public about the potential risks of paintball guns, but nothing more severe than that, as it does no good to seriously damage the ability of two young men, with no prior criminal histories (I'm assuming here - not 100% sure) to pursue their athletic and academic dreams. It also does society no good to take this through a long protracted legal battle in the court system, taking time/resources away from far more important legal matters for the State and society - this is what pre-trial intervention was invented for.
In addition, should the above happen quickly, as hoped, a 2 game suspension seems about right. Enough to highlight how close these guys came to throwing away their educational and athletic dreams and hopefully discouraging their teammates from doing any other dumb shit, but not so much to seriously damage their ability to continue being strong contributors to the team. That's my two cents on this.
Sometimes that dumb shit is actually illegal and dangerous to others and can result in harm to others.
Sometimes that harm to others occurs, despite that not being the intent of the perpetrators of the dumb shit.
Clearly paintball guns are nowhere near as dangerous as real guns (despite the low but non-zero probability of blinding someone), so to me it's pretty clear the players were not trying to hurt anyone (there are far more effective ways to hurt someone and the actual harm here was minimal) - it was a dumb shit prank that went awry and it's doubtful they knew this could constitute aggravated assault.
One of the unwritten tenets of our legal system is that we strive for outcomes that achieve the greatest societal good. IMO, assuming this was a dumb shit prank gone awry, the greatest societal good would likely be something like a significant, but not football career/college-threatening outcome, like significant community service, including some public service component to try to educate the public about the potential risks of paintball guns, but nothing more severe than that, as it does no good to seriously damage the ability of two young men, with no prior criminal histories (I'm assuming here - not 100% sure) to pursue their athletic and academic dreams. It also does society no good to take this through a long protracted legal battle in the court system, taking time/resources away from far more important legal matters for the State and society - this is what pre-trial intervention was invented for.
In addition, should the above happen quickly, as hoped, a 2 game suspension seems about right. Enough to highlight how close these guys came to throwing away their educational and athletic dreams and hopefully discouraging their teammates from doing any other dumb shit, but not so much to seriously damage their ability to continue being strong contributors to the team. That's my two cents on this.
That's what I don't get. It's weird as a prank. Water gun, sure. Nerf gun, OK.
Everyone did things in their youth that pushed boundaries and even broke the law (drinking before 21 would probably be 99% of the student body alone) but this isn't that. The police say it was close range to the point 2 of 3 bled. That's not a funny prank.
The advent of Social Media has caused us all to year to quickly jump to conclusions and pass our own judgement publicly even quicker (both ways). Plain and simple - my guess is that most of us don't know all the facts so it's hard to determine if this was a prank or malicious. We also don't know much about these kids behind the scenes. My only comment here is that the outcome/penalty should not only be measured in terms of the legal system. If these kids (young adults) are truely good kids and this is a first time offense - that should be taken into account........much the same way that if they are the types always getting into trouble behind the scenes and have been warned with this is the final straw....then might be time to move on from them. What happened to the victims should also not be discounted. However the fact that we are edging ever closer to a "One Strike and your Out" society does not sit well with me.
This is a great thread….I hope it goes for 20 more pages.
Or 40 more even. Anytime you want to borrow my avatar, you have my permission. 😀
Dick and fu** off? Very classy. You are well versed at making wrong assumptions. Note, I never said that I believed there wasnt a difference in the two. I challenged what you said and I quote "At no point did those three think they were shot at with a real gun". Which is why I jokingly asked if you interviewed them. I said it was possible people without knowledge of the two might not know the difference, especially in the heat of the moment..and gave one example where a paintball gun was mistaken for a firearm. You need more examples? I got them. Why are you so friggin uptight if someone challenges your word, especially if its backed up with real world examples?
Bob...you are differentiating "it's a felony" from mere "stupidity." But they are the same thing. There is no difference. That's why the aggravated assault law is written the way it is.
Robbing a bank is stupidity (with or without a weapon). Tossing bricks from highway overpasses is stupidity. Road rage shooting is stupidity. And yes, at the same time they are felonies.
It makes no sense at all to claim "your honor, i was just very stupid to shoot the victim. that doesn't make me a criminal."
Actually, it does.
Robbing a bank is stupidity (with or without a weapon). Tossing bricks from highway overpasses is stupidity. Road rage shooting is stupidity. And yes, at the same time they are felonies.
It makes no sense at all to claim "your honor, i was just very stupid to shoot the victim. that doesn't make me a criminal."
Actually, it does.
The players didn't do anything unethical, perhaps illegal, but that is to be determined by court, not by a lynch mob on a sports board.
A sling shot is also not as dangerous as "a real gun". But they are still dangerous and if you shoot someone who has not given prior consent, it is a crime. No one is suggesting that these players be charged as if they did a drive by with a MAC-10.
I think they deserve a second chance on the team. I don't know how long they will have to sit. I could see arguments from anywhere from one game to the rest of the season. I hope they learn something from their lack of judgement.
Ya, the argument above about a paintball gun not being as dangerous as a real gun thus you shouldn't call the cops?
Eff that, if some punk shoots me with a paintball gun and drives off, I'm definitely calling the cops.
That said, it is not a gun, thus there should be some punishment from the team, someone mentioned 3 games above, that sounds about right.
He doesn't like to be argued with much. Which is I probably why I spend so much time on his ignore list. Although surely he'd give a different reason, probably involving my general lack of intelligence, or the fact that I possess a certain je ne douche quoi). Anyway, if we presume to argue with him, we're dicks and should fvck off. 😃
I never take it personally and, whatever he might think of me, I still like him. In no small part because his wife is so awesome and, IMO, wouldn't have married him if he were a bad person.
A lynch mob lol??? Talk about an overreaction. First of all people are entitled to their own opinion and secondly they carry no bearing on what will happen with these kids. So get off your damn soapbox.
Totally disagree. Was it stupid? Yes. Was it dangerous? Yes? Could someone have been hurt? Yes. Was there malicious intent, to actually harm someone. We can’t get in their heads, but I would definitely argue no. When we were kids, my brother threw a huge snowball at an approaching school bus from another high school. The snowball actually broke the windshield on the bus. It was stupid, dangerous, and someone could have been hurt. Was there intent to harm anyone? Absolutely not. It wasn’t a felony, and the police treated it accordingly. Despite what NJ law says, no way this should be a felony.
I agree, there is nothing wrong with a organization holding its’ members to a higher standard than the justice system.
Thought it was your turn to watch them?
Objection, argumentative.
And of course, but the implications in the post was immediate.
Later as in revenge it's vigilantism which is what you get when the state refuses to protect the victims or enforce the state's monopoly on retribution. Do we really need to go there?
What?? They shoot a paint gun at close range! They did actually harm 3 people. It was malicious intent! Paint guns are not supposed to be shot at close range!
Your kidding, right?
There's not a college coach in the country that wouldn't suspend a player after they got arrested.
I always thought it was weird that the punishment for shooting someone and they die vs shooting someone and they live, is different. It’s like you get rewarded for having bad aim. The intent is what the punishment should be for.
the people they hit were bleeding and had bruises. If they beat them up with their fists, threw rocks at them, attacked them with razor blades or shot them with paint balls from short range, it shouldn’t matter in my opinion. It’s the intent. Jail time doesn’t seem unreasonable for physical assault. In that case, yes they deserve to be kicked off the football team no doubt. Bad apples
the people they hit were bleeding and had bruises. If they beat them up with their fists, threw rocks at them, attacked them with razor blades or shot them with paint balls from short range, it shouldn’t matter in my opinion. It’s the intent. Jail time doesn’t seem unreasonable for physical assault. In that case, yes they deserve to be kicked off the football team no doubt. Bad apples
Who is the next man up behind Max Melton? We gonna get burned there by Michigan on Saturday?
If Michigan scores a bunch of points by exploiting a low-experience corner... and we lose because of that.. the whole team is going to be super pissed at these two guys. Actually, the whole state is going to be super pissed.
I believe Michigan's great strength right now is their running game though right? So maybe we'll be ok...
If Michigan scores a bunch of points by exploiting a low-experience corner... and we lose because of that.. the whole team is going to be super pissed at these two guys. Actually, the whole state is going to be super pissed.
I believe Michigan's great strength right now is their running game though right? So maybe we'll be ok...
Actually it was my turn to watch them.
Sorry folks ... my bad ... I lost sight of them for 2 seconds and that was all it took.
Prank my ass, it was an attack on unsuspecting students minding their own business.
And the attack didn’t go awry, it went exactly as planned.
They inflicted pain, blood and welts on three student victims….shooting them at close range with a paintball gun from a car like cowards.
The only thing that went awry for them is their asses got caught.
Maybe shooting girls was their next plan
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Students that prob were in the stands cheering for them a few days earlier
Makes it even worse IMO
