Mike Rice Being Mike Rice (And It's Not All Bad)

[ruhudsonfan]

Agreed that it's not necessary to put hands on people. There are better ways to achieve the same thing.

Having said that, that same wrestling coach from HS I mentioned above had this thing we did at the very end of the workout phase of every practice, which lasted at least 90 minutes, that I'll never forget. The workout phase, calisthenics mixed w/some other creative forms of physical torture (e.g. hand over handing our way up steeply angled parallel bars a bunch of times), was unpleasant in the extreme. Many people came out for the team only to quit after a couple practices. Was particularly hard on the football players that came out for the team because the rest of us had a week or two head start and they had to play catch up, fitness-wise. Few football players lasted more than a day. Coach called it the revolving door.

Anyway, this thing he had us do at the end of the workout phase was that we had to hang by our hands from one of those wooden vertical stretching racks on the wall, 4 at a time, for an indeterminate amount of time (probably averaged about a minute). During this time, while we're hanging there exhausted arms vibrating, the coach would walk down the rack and punch each of us, hard, in the abdomen (why, I do not know). At the end of the hanging time, we had to do ten leg lifts touching the rack over our heads with our toes before we could hop down and the next group could go.

Nobody ever knew how long they'd have to hang there exactly and when the coach felt enough time had elapsed, he'd often count off on his fingers as if counting down to zero. But nobody knew if he'd stop at ten fingers or just restart. If you slipped, which nobody ever did more than once, you got ridiculed mercilessly by the coach. He played a lot of mind-fvck games like that.

I look back fondly on those days. But it was a love/hate thing back then.

And all of that "works" except the punch in the stomach part. There is no benefit to the punch. It certainly doesn't strengthen your abs. And it's not a punishment reward if everyone get punched. While you may look back somewhat fondly on it now, while you were in the situation it created a resentment that hindered performance--whether anyone actually knew it or would admit it or not.

 

[mildone]

And all of that "works" except the punch in the stomach part. There is no benefit to the punch. It certainly doesn't strengthen your abs. And it's not a punishment reward if everyone get punched. While you may look back somewhat fondly on it now, while you were in the situation it created a resentment that hindered performance--whether anyone actually knew it or would admit it or not.

I can buy that. Although I suspect that more resentment would've been centered around some of the more nasty psychological games. Physically, by the end of the first month of practice freshman year, he could hit us as hard as he wanted in the abdomen and it didn't bother us in the slightest. You'd feel it, but it wouldn't hurt. I'm sure you know what I mean.

 

[RU82]

Again, I agree with this aspect of your point 100%.

The physical aspect is where we may part ways. It's not necessary and frankly, doesn't work. If I'm tasked with getting a group of individuals with less than adequate talent to achieve more, I'd rather own them psychologically than have them intimidated physically.

Oh please, dude.

It's only a matter of time before you're conducting door kicking missions at the college avenue dorms because some guy makes the mistake of saying his burrito is spicy within earshot of a bisexual Hispanic chic who thinks he's making a comment about her three way from the night before. Excuse me if I think that guy should be ready to at least kick you in the balls without remorse when you come through the door.

 

[mildone]

Oh please, dude.

It's only a matter of time before you're conducting door kicking missions at the college avenue dorms because some guy makes the mistake of saying his burrito is spicy within earshot of a bisexual Hispanic chic who thinks he's making a comment about her three way from the night before. Excuse me if I think that guy should be ready to at least kick you in the balls without remorse when you come through the door.

That was a pretty creative scenario. So kudos for that.

But I don't think Hudson is claiming that physical training isn't important, which is what's necessary to deliver a kick in the balls. I think what he's saying is that kicking the guy in the balls won't make him better at kicking other people in the balls.

 

[RU82]

I'm not in favor of physical abuse. I don't know anybody who is. What I'm saying is that nothing I saw on the Mike Rice tape rose to the level of what I would regard as abuse. I'd be the first to condemn a coach for punching somebody in the face. Giving him an unharmful little kick in the rear I don't have a problem with.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Oh please, dude.

It's only a matter of time before you're conducting door kicking missions at the college avenue dorms because some guy makes the mistake of saying his burrito is spicy within earshot of a bisexual Hispanic chic who thinks he's making a comment about her three way from the night before. Excuse me if I think that guy should be ready to at least kick you in the balls without remorse when you come through the door.

I've read this 4 times and don't know what point you're trying to make. maybe it's me..lol

As you may be aware, St. Anthony's doesn't have their own gym. Back in the day of the Flintstones being shot in front of a live studio audience, they would play pick-up games at a place called the White Eagle. Hurley is a SPP grad and had a good relationship with our head coach at the time. It wasn't totally out of the ordinary for some of us to go down there in the summer to get a few runs in with them. I'm talking the absolute HEIGHT of their great teams. Bobby, Jerry Walker, Terry Dehere, Danny as an 8th grader, Rod Rhodes as a frosh, etc.. Old man Hurley played mind games better than anyone I ever encountered in a military setting. He was relentless with his team. He physically tortured them. They would bear crawl with a rag in each hand to clean the floor for 25, 30 minutes at a time. They would run for HOURS. He would call everyone in the place soft--his kids or not. He would tell kids that if they didn't shape up they would end up crack dealers like their family members that were his parolees. lol. But he never even pretended to put his hands, feet, blocking pad or ball on anyone.

I don't care about Rice calling that kid a Lithuanian f@g--especially assuming the kid isn't gay. That's trash talk. But hitting kids with blocking pads, yanking kids by the shirt, throwing balls, kicking kids in the ass is amateur hour--pure and simple--especially when you're a flat nobody like Mike Rice. Bobby Knight can sorta get away with kicking Calbert Cheaney in the ass. He's BOBBY F@CKING KNIGHT. Mike Rice? some middle school wrestling coach? please...

 

[Caliknight]

Rice was Flood's evil twin brother. Both committed the biggest sin. They lost.

With the way Rice acted, that's a surprise to no one. The guy was unhinged at all times. Even in a basic interview he was one second away from spazzing out.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Rice was Flood's evil twin brother. Both committed the biggest sin. They lost.

With the way Rice acted, that's a surprise to no one. The guy was unhinged at all times. Even in a basic interview he was one second away from spazzing out.

Totally agree

 

[RU82]

I've read this 4 times and don't know what point you're trying to make. maybe it's me..lol

As you may be aware, St. Anthony's doesn't have their own gym. Back in the day of the Flintstones being shot in front of a live studio audience, they would play pick-up games at a place called the White Eagle. Hurley is a SPP grad and had a good relationship with our head coach at the time. It wasn't totally out of the ordinary for some of us to go down there in the summer to get a few runs in with them. I'm talking the absolute HEIGHT of their great teams. Bobby, Jerry Walker, Terry Dehere, Danny as an 8th grader, Rod Rhodes as a frosh, etc.. Old man Hurley played mind games better than anyone I ever encountered in a military setting. He was relentless with his team. He physically tortured them. They would bear crawl with a rag in each hand to clean the floor for 25, 30 minutes at a time. They would run for HOURS. He would call everyone in the place soft--his kids or not. He would tell kids that if they didn't shape up they would end up crack dealers like their family members that were his parolees. lol. But he never even pretended to put his hands, feet, blocking pad or ball on anyone.

I don't care about Rice calling that kid a Lithuanian f@g--especially assuming the kid isn't gay. That's trash talk. But hitting kids with blocking pads, yanking kids by the shirt, throwing balls, kicking kids in the ass is amateur hour--pure and simple--especially when you're a flat nobody like Mike Rice. Bobby Knight can sorta get away with kicking Calbert Cheaney in the ass. He's BOBBY F@CKING KNIGHT. Mike Rice? some middle school wrestling coach? please...

No touching is a solid boundary for these things I suppose. But my feeling is that nobody was getting abused by the things Mike Rice was doing unless they were squishy between the ears, in which case they almost certainly are better off from the experience.

There's sometimes a fine line in competitive settings between being abusive and sumply acting like a man. To me Mike Rice didn't cross that line. Everything I saw on those tapes would have rolled off my shoulders like water off a duck's back. I'm sure I would have laughed about it with my teammates afterward. And by all accounts, Mike Rice probably would have been yucking it up along with us.

My earlier point perhaps clouded by my desire to twist your gonads a little is that there's a big difference between aggression and micro aggression. To me Mike Rice's mentor/tormentor is solidly in the camp of the latter. There was never any intent to harm and there was no harm caused. He wasn't abusing anybody. He was just triggering.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

No touching is a solid boundary for these things I suppose. But my feeling is that nobody was getting abused by the things Mike Rice was doing unless they were squishy between the ears, in which case they almost certainly are better off from the experience.

There's sometimes a fine line in competitive settings between being abusive and sumply acting like a man. To me Mike Rice didn't cross that line. Everything I saw on those tapes would have rolled off my shoulders like water off a duck's back. I'm sure I would have laughed about it with my teammates afterward. And by all accounts, Mike Rice probably would have been yucking it up along with us.

My earlier point perhaps clouded by my desire to twist your gonads a little is that there's a big difference between aggression and micro aggression. To me Mike Rice's mentor/tormentor is solidly in the camp of the latter. There was never any intent to harm and there was no harm caused. He wasn't abusing anybody. He was just triggering.

I get it and you're definitely right.

I see it with myself and coaching my older son. I'm known to drop the occasional sarcastic remark on the kids. It rubs many a parent the wrong way. One week, I got a flurry of emails because not every kid got the same number of shots in a basketball game. lol. I was like, "huh?"

But much like the Marine Corps example, we're from a bygone era I'm afraid. Kids PARENTS no longer accept that somebody has to play left field and bat last. It's a scary thing for sure.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Here is the write up on Rice and Flood

- Could not win
- Full of scandal...which caused players to leave the program and not come in the first place
- Hired by Pernetti.

The end.

Throwing basketballs at player heads and calling them Lithuanian f***** is not acceptable.

While the SL is often ridiculous and Murdock is slimy, ultimately the school is better off being rid of the three of them and all were over their head and should not have been hired in the first place.