Muscle Memory to Improve Accuracy

[NickRU714]

Listened to HC Schiano' s presser today and he mentioned "muscle memory" leads to accuracy improving.

The irony of this is that HC Schiano and OC KC are severely limiting QB development through their aversion to passing.
Wimsatt's passing attempts by year:
2021: 21 attempts
2022: 145 attempts
2023: 224 attempts (3 more games to go - assume we get another 50 attempts total?)
Total: 390 attempts

That is a crazy low amount of attempts per year.
Excusing last year when he was hurt, the number of attempts this year
We average approx 23 pass attempts per game - #125 out of #133 teams.
This is why I keep saying we need to throw it more now - even if it lowers our chances of winning a particular game.
To reap the rewards next year and beyond.
The "offense we need to do to win", "just focus 1-0 this week" and "best chance to win this week" doesn't work when you keep losing.
At some point a long term strategy needs to be considered.
Otherwise we'll never pass the ball because the QBs will never develop (because they never got a chance to pass the ball).

Compare to other Rutgers QBs people like to bring up.
These QBs were getting similar or more attempts in 1 year than Gavin has had in 2.5 years.
Whether Gavin is or isn't the answer (or Sheppard or Saurace or any QB) will never be truly known unless he's actually able to throw the ball and figure it out.
QBs don't just show up at Rutgers ready to go. They need time to develop and make mistakes.

Teel:
2005: 101 attempts
2006: 296 attempts
2007: 349 attempts
2008: 396 attempts
Total: 1,142

Nova:
2011: 227 attempts
2012: 388 attempts
2013: 303 attempts
2014: 327 attempts
Total: 1,245 attempts

Not comparing Gavin and Tulia Tagovailoa as prospects but just showing the difference in development opportunity between the two:
2019: 12 attempts
2020: 122 attempts
2021: 474 attempts
2022: 391 attempts
2023: 375 attempts (2 or 3 more games to go)
Total: 1,374 attempts

 

[WhiteBus]

Oh god another excuse and a bad one!

 

[ashokan]

Listened to HC Schiano' s presser today and he mentioned "muscle memory" leads to accuracy improving.

The irony of this is that HC Schiano and OC KC are severely limiting QB development through their aversion to passing.
Wimsatt's passing attempts by year:
2021: 21 attempts
2022: 145 attempts
2023: 224 attempts (3 more games to go - assume we get another 50 attempts total?)
Total: 390 attempts

That is a crazy low amount of attempts per year.
Excusing last year when he was hurt, the number of attempts this year
We average approx 23 pass attempts per game - #125 out of #133 teams.
This is why I keep saying we need to throw it more now - even if it lowers our chances of winning a particular game.
To reap the rewards next year and beyond.
The "offense we need to do to win", "just focus 1-0 this week" and "best chance to win this week" doesn't work when you keep losing.
At some point a long term strategy needs to be considered.
Otherwise we'll never pass the ball because the QBs will never develop (because they never got a chance to pass the ball).

Compare to other Rutgers QBs people like to bring up.
These QBs were getting similar or more attempts in 1 year than Gavin has had in 2.5 years.
Whether Gavin is or isn't the answer (or Sheppard or Saurace or any QB) will never be truly known unless he's actually able to throw the ball and figure it out.
QBs don't just show up at Rutgers ready to go. They need time to develop and make mistakes.

Teel:
2005: 101 attempts
2006: 296 attempts
2007: 349 attempts
2008: 396 attempts
Total: 1,142

Nova:
2011: 227 attempts
2012: 388 attempts
2013: 303 attempts
2014: 327 attempts
Total: 1,245 attempts

Not comparing Gavin and Tulia Tagovailoa as prospects but just showing the difference in development opportunity between the two:
2019: 12 attempts
2020: 122 attempts
2021: 474 attempts
2022: 391 attempts
2023: 375 attempts (2 or 3 more games to go)
Total: 1,374 attempts

2021: 21 attempts
2022: 145 attempts
2023: 224 attempts

TDs
21 = 0
22 = 5
23 = 8

INTs
21 = 2
22 = 7
23 = 6

 

[NickRU714]

Oh god another excuse and a bad one!

Hmm. Didn't mean it necessarily as an excuse for Wimsatt.

More as a rebuke of the persistent "we can't throw the ball yet. We have to run it over 60% of the time. Need the offense we have to win. The offense will just magically be better next year."

 

[RobertG]

Listened to HC Schiano' s presser today and he mentioned "muscle memory" leads to accuracy improving.

The irony of this is that HC Schiano and OC KC are severely limiting QB development through their aversion to passing.
Wimsatt's passing attempts by year:
2021: 21 attempts
2022: 145 attempts
2023: 224 attempts (3 more games to go - assume we get another 50 attempts total?)
Total: 390 attempts

That is a crazy low amount of attempts per year.
Excusing last year when he was hurt, the number of attempts this year
We average approx 23 pass attempts per game - #125 out of #133 teams.
This is why I keep saying we need to throw it more now - even if it lowers our chances of winning a particular game.
To reap the rewards next year and beyond.
The "offense we need to do to win", "just focus 1-0 this week" and "best chance to win this week" doesn't work when you keep losing.
At some point a long term strategy needs to be considered.
Otherwise we'll never pass the ball because the QBs will never develop (because they never got a chance to pass the ball).

Compare to other Rutgers QBs people like to bring up.
These QBs were getting similar or more attempts in 1 year than Gavin has had in 2.5 years.
Whether Gavin is or isn't the answer (or Sheppard or Saurace or any QB) will never be truly known unless he's actually able to throw the ball and figure it out.
QBs don't just show up at Rutgers ready to go. They need time to develop and make mistakes.

Teel:
2005: 101 attempts
2006: 296 attempts
2007: 349 attempts
2008: 396 attempts
Total: 1,142

Nova:
2011: 227 attempts
2012: 388 attempts
2013: 303 attempts
2014: 327 attempts
Total: 1,245 attempts

Not comparing Gavin and Tulia Tagovailoa as prospects but just showing the difference in development opportunity between the two:
2019: 12 attempts
2020: 122 attempts
2021: 474 attempts
2022: 391 attempts
2023: 375 attempts (2 or 3 more games to go)
Total: 1,374 attempts

You gain muscle memory through practice not in games. There are 353 non game days per year that he can throw. Those are the days he improves muscle memory.

 

[koleszar]

Oh god another excuse and a bad one!

What the OP posted is what Schiano said in the presser. Developmental program and getting reps so muscle memory becomes instinctual and accuracy improves. I just rolled my eyes at a guy who put all his eggs in one basket and was just coming up with any reason he could grasp at, as to why things will get better.

 

[WhiteBus]

Hmm. Didn't mean it necessarily as an excuse for Wimsatt.

More as a rebuke of the persistent "we can't throw the ball yet. We have to run it over 60% of the time. Need the offense we have to win. The offense will just magically be better next year."

Muscle memory is learned more in practice and scrimmages. There is no limit of the number of throws he can throw all week
The number of throws in a game are practically irrelevant compared what he should be doing during the week. It's not a good rebuke at all.

 

[NickRU714]

Muscle memory is learned more in practice and scrimmages. There is no limit of the number of throws he can throw all week
The number of throws in a game are practically irrelevant compared what he should be doing during the week. It's not a good rebuke at all.

How many throws is he doing in practice?
Considering we run 60% of the time in games, wouldn’t they be reflected in practice time allocation?

 

[NickRU714]

You gain muscle memory through practice not in games. There are 353 non game days per year that he can throw. Those are the days he improves muscle memory.

Funny enough HC Schiano cited that exact thing and said it doesn't really do anything.
There is a difference between playing catch and throwing accurately under pressure with a defense trying to take your head off.

Basically, muscle memory in games is what matter most.

 

[WhiteBus]

How many throws is he doing in practice?
Considering we run 60% of the time in games, wouldn’t they be reflected in practice time allocation?

A lot more in then in games. Rutgers practice structure is no different then most of the bigger colleges. But their are throwing drills. QB/WR drills etc while the running backs are doing their separate things.

 

[WhiteBus]

Funny enough HC Schiano cited that exact thing and said it doesn't really do anything.
There is a difference between playing catch and throwing accurately under pressure with a defense trying to take your head off.

Basically, muscle memory in games is what matter most.

No. If you are specifically talking about muscle memory it's done in practice. Game day you stop thinking about all the work and let the "muscle memory" take over. Same as golfers on the practice range vs on the course. The work is done beforehand.

 

[RobertG]

Funny enough HC Schiano cited that exact thing and said it doesn't really do anything.
There is a difference between playing catch and throwing accurately under pressure with a defense trying to take your head off.

Basically, muscle memory in games is what matter most.

He did not say it doesn't do anything. He said the following you can listen for your self at the 14:00 mark.

"Technique if drilled enough can improve accuracy, but you have to work at it"

"trained behavior becomes your instinct. you don't have to think about it"

"But you thrown in that other stuff ... those are things that have an effect on that.

IMO the muscle memory comes down to the drilling. But what a QB needs to learn also is how to handle the "distractions" (300 lbs DT's coming to rip your head off) and apply his technique each and every time. I think the best example of this is in GW's INT this last game, for what ever reason, he allowed other things to influence his technique and he threw off his back with no follow through and sailed the ball.

 

[NickRU714]

Alright guess I'm wrong.

Turns out QB is the only athletic position in the world where you don't need to actually play in games to get better at it.
Just practice in controlled environments and you'll master the position.

 

[NickRU714]

He did not say it doesn't do anything. He said the following you can listen for your self at the 14:00 mark.

"Technique if drilled enough can improve accuracy, but you have to work at it"

"trained behavior becomes your instinct. you don't have to think about it"

"But you thrown in that other stuff ... those are things that have an effect on that.

IMO the muscle memory comes down to the drilling. But what a QB needs to learn also is how to handle the "distractions" (300 lbs DT's coming to rip your head off) and apply his technique each and every time. I think the best example of this is in GW's INT this last game, for what ever reason, he allowed other things to influence his technique and he threw off his back with no follow through and sailed the ball.

And where can a QB learn to handle those distractions?

It's almost as if you agree that in game experiences lead to development that can't be duplicated in practice.......

 

[RobertG]

And where can a QB learn to handle those distractions?

It's almost as if you agree that in game experiences lead to development that can't be duplicated in practice.......

The title of your post was muscle memory to improve accuracy. Your post then goes on to explain that to develop this muscle memory we need more throws during the game. I stated muscle memory is developed during practice not during games. Now if you left out muscle memory from your post and stated having game experience is important, I would agree with that.

But I still wouldn’t agree with your overall argument that we should potentially sacrifice winning games for QB game experience.

Wins are important, going to a bowl game is important. Going to a bowl game adds another month of practice for the entire team,
. Wins bring positive press to the school and shows recruits and transfers that RU is on an upswing. Winning is more important than a extra 5 or 6 throws a game.

 

[NickRU714]

The title of your post was muscle memory to improve accuracy. Your post then goes on to explain that to develop this muscle memory we need more throws during the game. I stated muscle memory is developed during practice not during games. Now if you left out muscle memory from your post and stated having game experience is important, I would agree with that.

But I still wouldn’t agree with your overall argument that we should potentially sacrifice winning games for QB game experience.

Wins are important, going to a bowl game is important. Going to a bowl game adds another month of practice for the entire team,
. Wins bring positive press to the school and shows recruits and transfers that RU is on an upswing. Winning is more important than a extra 5 or 6 throws a game.

I only mentioned muscle memory because of HC Schiano bringing it up.

I've been saying for 2 weeks to prioritize QB experience since we got bowl eligible (mission accomplished for the season).
Instead we have been throwing even less than our already meager attempts.

The problem is that we aren't winning though.
We aren't getting QB experience AND we are losing.
At least if we lost to OSU/Iowa being aggressive we could say "Positive is we got good QB experience to learn from and improve on going forward."

"We need this offensive strategy in order to win now" only works if your actually winning.
It was fine early on but now we are losing with no benefit.

 

[ScarletDog]

Attempts are low because we have to severely limit the playbook. But also a big factor is that we don’t get many plays in a lot of games…if u don’t get first downs u don’t get a lot of plays…couple that with a run oriented approach and qb attempts are relatively low.

 

[mildone]

I only mentioned muscle memory because of HC Schiano bringing it up.

I've been saying for 2 weeks to prioritize QB experience since we got bowl eligible (mission accomplished for the season).
Instead we have been throwing even less than our already meager attempts.

The problem is that we aren't winning though.
We aren't getting QB experience AND we are losing.
At least if we lost to OSU/Iowa being aggressive we could say "Positive is we got good QB experience to learn from and improve on going forward."

"We need this offensive strategy in order to win now" only works if your actually winning.
It was fine early on but now we are losing with no benefit.

The staff isn't looking at any of these games and thinking "we cannot possibly win so let's turn the game into a practice session". And even if the game is out of hand in the second half, until the very last game, we're still going to want to practice the things the staff thinks are what we'd be using in subsequent games this season to try to win.

So in any game we were losing this season, we'd want to practice the running game more than anything else since, for the most part, we're a team that is built to win games by running successfully and wearing down opposing team's D so we can run all over them late in the game - which is how we've won 6, again for the most part.

The argument that we should practice passing in games only really works in the second half the final game of the season if the game is out of hand. The rest of the time, it's more logical to work on that in practice, along with continuing to work on the running game to prep for trying to win upcoming games.

I don't see a team, during games, that can win much using the passing game as a primary weapon. Not this season. And it's not all about GW either.