My (late) thoughts on Wisconsin

[Knight Shift]

he is probably the run game coordinator. but who knows.

He is getting paid handsomely on a fantastic team at a fantastic University in a state with no income tax, and he probably could not give a crap about what he can and cannot do.

"Flood, an essential voice on Texas' recruiting trail, agreed to terms on a two-year extension through 2026. His salary will expand by 6 percent, rising to $1.33 million in 2024 and $1.4 million in 2025."

8 Texas Football Coaches Receive Contract Extensions

Both of the Longhorns coordinators have received extensions through the 2024 season.

www.si.com

 

[Scarlet16E]

This is depressing. I had hoped our depth better at this point. And our schedule will not likely be as favorable for many years after this season.

 

[mb5789]

How did Vanderbilt outscheme Alabama (much more talented), and Kentucky (arguably more talented)? Creative play calling and playing to their players' strengths instead of playing to a system.

On the NIL front, in the podcast @Richie O and @mb5789 did with the Wisconsin podcaster (an ex Wisconsin RB who seemed to have some inside scoop), it did not seem from at least what he knew (even though nobody knows for sure except the coaches) that Wisconsin was flush with NIL money.

Coaching and scheme matter when you have lesser talent than your opponents. That may be why Rutgers beat Virginia Tech and lost to Nebraska and Wisconsin. As for Washington, it seemed to be more poor execution (3 missed FGs) that resulted in the Rutgers win. But winning on the other teams' poor execution will not result in consistent winning.

On the NIL front, I agree the Wisconsin is not overflowing with cash to hand out to players. From asking around with other folks, I have heard similar things about Wisconsin re: NIL (ie they're not poor but they're also not working with a warchest).

Totally agree with your point about coaching and scheme as well. Brent Pry and Jed Fisch both have serious flaws as coaches, whereas Rhule and Fickell are both really high level coaches. Fickell ran circles around Schiano scheme wise, while Nebraska just had more talent than us on the DL. Rhule and company made some good adjustments as the game went on to stifle our run game as well.

 

[Shelby65]

I'm saying he calls what he wants without schiano dictating because it looks how his stuff always looked.

Oh...of course he calls almost every individual play but the list he can choose from is dictated by the HC. I don't consider that wiggle room. Wiggle room would mean throwing a 15 yard pass over the middle to the TE, or a screen pass. Of course if he called one of those he'd be unemployed the next day.

 

[mildone]

Yea but my point is even Alabama can’t be as consistently strong and dominant across the board be it the lines or whatever position regardless of NIL. Talent is spreading around.

They obviously have more resources than most but everyone has to figure out to make it work with whatever they have. The less you have the more resourceful and judicious you have to be.

We're aligned in thinking that NIL opens up new possibilities for creating balance across college sports. And you're right. Due to both NIL and changes in transfer rules, elite teams like Alabama now have the problem that that elite player who doesn't start can more easily transfer and get paid somewhere else and have a much better chance to play sooner.

 

[Kbee3]

1. This is a nightmare season for a coach and I feel for the staff to an extent. The amount of injuries, for high level players, is really bad. 7 or 8 of our top 15 players are all out for the year or playing hurt. We are just not a program that can support that time of loss, but that is not really an acceptable excuse to an extent.

I think it's an acceptable excuse. What other school could handle such a large number of key injuries ?
The funny thing is that I thought the season could come crashing down if we suffered a significant injury to KM or AK.

 

[Knight Shift]

On the NIL front, I agree the Wisconsin is not overflowing with cash to hand out to players. From asking around with other folks, I have heard similar things about Wisconsin re: NIL (ie they're not poor but they're also not working with a warchest).

Totally agree with your point about coaching and scheme as well. Brent Pry and Jed Fisch both have serious flaws as coaches, whereas Rhule and Fickell are both really high level coaches. Fickell ran circles around Schiano scheme wise, while Nebraska just had more talent than us on the DL. Rhule and company made some good adjustments as the game went on to stifle our run game as well.

I am restraining myself from commenting on special teams, which could be a thread of its own, mainly because it is so maddening and causes me to lose my mind. And it's all phases of special teams. Losing lot of field position and scoring opportunities.

 

[kupuna133]

How did Vanderbilt outscheme Alabama (much more talented), and Kentucky (arguably more talented)? Creative play calling and playing to their players' strengths instead of playing to a system.

On the NIL front, in the podcast @Richie O and @mb5789 did with the Wisconsin podcaster (an ex Wisconsin RB who seemed to have some inside scoop), it did not seem from at least what he knew (even though nobody knows for sure except the coaches) that Wisconsin was flush with NIL money.

Coaching and scheme matter when you have lesser talent than your opponents. That may be why Rutgers beat Virginia Tech and lost to Nebraska and Wisconsin. As for Washington, it seemed to be more poor execution (3 missed FGs) that resulted in the Rutgers win. But winning on the other teams' poor execution will not result in consistent winning.

This is what I have been saying for 2 years in regards to the offensive scheme. If we are so deficient in talent why are we not scheming to our strengths? Why do we show no urgency or pace when needed? I noted last year specifically with red zone offense. That many of the play designs need perfect execution to be successful. That is the area that simplicity and fundamentals win out. I am not calling for gimmick plays. KC needs to stop overthinking things.

 

[Shelby65]

The hate just pervades your posts. 🙂

You know you're dying to tell us all the real reason you hate GS so much. We can all see how it's deeply personal for you. It's not good to keep that stuff bottled up inside. Get it off your chest, it'll do you some good.

The obvious, unchanged since the day Negative Two Point Zero was hired. 1) No other program would hire him. Ever. If forced to hire him, they'd drop football first. 2) Every aspect of offense is too risky for him. He'd prefer not being on offense at all if he could figure out how. 3) arrogance. for a guy who hasn't won diddly in his career he's obnoxiously high on himself. no sincere humility,

 

[Shelby65]

I am restraining myself from commenting on special teams, which could be a thread of its own, mainly because it is so maddening and causes me to lose my mind. And it's all phases of special teams. Losing lot of field position and scoring opportunities.

He coaches to lose without even realizing it.

 

[Knight Shift]

This is what I have been saying for 2 years in regards to the offensive scheme. If we are so deficient in talent why are we not scheming to our strengths? Why do we show no urgency or pace when needed? I noted last year specifically with red zone offense. That many of the play designs need perfect execution to be successful. That is the area that simplicity and fundamentals win out. I am not calling for gimmick plays. KC needs to stop overthinking things.

I could see extending the DC, as he seemed to be in demand. But why the need to extend KC through 2026 after 1 year on the job? And back to DC, still wondering if Corey Hetherman may have been the "man behind the curtain" on defense. He's now doing a decent job in first year as DC at Minnesota. That game could be a real ball buster for Rutgers.

 

[mildone]

He’s got the the OC title but Sarkisian is the one calling the plays. He might contribute to game planning but he’s not the playcaller. There have been others coaches like that on other teams as well.

I get it. But Flood's was never a stupid person and he almost certainly has learned from Sarkisian, right? I would imagine that, if he didn't pick up on how Sarkisian does what he does, and why, he wouldn't still be around. Is not like Sarkisian couldn't easily replace Flood if Flood is not a great contributor.

 

[kupuna133]

I could see extending the DC, as he seemed to be in demand. But why the need to extend KC through 2026 after 1 year on the job? And back to DC, still wondering if Corey Hetherman may have been the "man behind the curtain" on defense. He's now doing a decent job in first year as DC at Minnesota. That game could be a real ball buster for Rutgers.

No need at all to extend KC. He was not sought after while at Minn after his crash and burn at PSU. And he would not be sought after if he had RU humming along. Hetherman is a loss as well as Watson. But Harasymiak is legit.

 

[Knight Shift]

I get it. But Flood's was never a stupid person and he almost certainly has learned from Sarkisian, right? I would imagine that, if he didn't pick up on how Sarkisian does what he does, and why, he wouldn't still be around. Is not like Sarkisian couldn't easily replace Flood if Flood is not a great contributor.

Flood is apparently an ace recruiter, something he was allegedly terrible at when he was at Rutgers.
The colors you are wearing when you come calling to recruits makes that job a lot easier. In this case, (burnt) orange man good.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Perhaps Flood was a really good OL coach. That's what people have said anyway.

Don’t discount the full back in the room. Burton’s blocking was a huge factor.

 

[RutHut]

I have failed again to abide by that wise old Tennessee saying.

 

[gef21]

Oh...of course he calls almost every individual play but the list he can choose from is dictated by the HC. I don't consider that wiggle room. Wiggle room would mean throwing a 15 yard pass over the middle to the TE, or a screen pass. Of course if he called one of those he'd be unemployed the next day.

Honestly we saw those plays many times under 1.0. We had two TEs who ran verticals and seams all the time. We have not had a good TE in a decade.

We used to run a lot of slip screens to tail backs and H backs, but we do not anymore.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Flood is apparently an ace recruiter, something he was allegedly terrible at when he was at Rutgers.
The colors you are wearing when you come calling to recruits makes that job a lot easier. In this case, (burnt) orange man good.

I think the color is green as opposed to burnt orange lol.

 

[Knight Shift]

I think the color is green as opposed to burnt orange lol.

Flipping back to NIL.
Can't Athan get a deal for Gyro America, and perhaps Kyle for Pork Roll (or Taylor Ham) America?
The whole offense could get one for Ham and Egg America.

 

[mildone]

The obvious, unchanged since the day Negative Two Point Zero was hired. 1) No other program would hire him. Ever. If forced to hire him, they'd drop football first. 2) Every aspect of offense is too risky for him. He'd prefer not being on offense at all if he could figure out how. 3) arrogance. for a guy who hasn't won diddly in his career he's obnoxiously high on himself. no sincere humility,

Nah, that's obviously not it. Nobody makes it their personal mission to bash a person the way you bash Schiano on an hourly basis without some kind of personal grudge. If it was just not thinking he's the guy for the job, you wouldn't be talking about his personality like that.

Arrogance? Obnoxiously high on himself? No sincere humility?

Because it would help recruiting for GS to stop projecting confidence? 😀

C'mon now. Tell us what he did to you. Let it out.

 

[ashokan]

He’s got the the OC title but Sarkisian is the one calling the plays. He might contribute to game planning but he’s not the playcaller. There have been others coaches like that on other teams as well.

The worst D1 college offense I ever watched was RU in 2010 (set sacks allowed record) - couldn't block, run, pass.
The OCs that year were Flood and Kirk.
Since Kirk got fired I assumed Kirk was calling plays.
GS spent weeks before firing saying KC's explanations of game plans made sense to him and he wasn't concerned.
I knew there was a serious lack of talent on OL that limited play but long running issues were manifesting (OL recruiting)

 

[rutgersguy1]

I get it. But Flood's was never a stupid person and he almost certainly has learned from Sarkisian, right? I would imagine that, if he didn't pick up on how Sarkisian does what he does, and why, he wouldn't still be around. Is not like Sarkisian couldn't easily replace Flood if Flood is not a great contributor.

It's possible but he's a good OL coach and Sarkisian has known him since his days at Atlanta where I think they met. So he's probably a buddy by now and you know how coaches tend to keep former coaches they've worked with around whether good or not. Look at Andy Buh and Ash and that's not an isolated instance.

I have no idea how Flood would be as an actual playcaller. If Sarkisian liked him so much as that, then he could give up the duties. I think Kiffin did at least somehwat to Charlie Weis jr but he's there to interject when he wants.

 

[Shelby65]

Honestly we saw those plays many times under 1.0. We had two TEs who ran verticals and seams all the time. We have not had a good TE in a decade.

We used to run a lot of slip screens to tail backs and H backs, but we do not anymore.

Who besides Clark Harris ? 20 years ago doesn't matter. nobody's asking for Steve Spurrier's phone #. Point is, our offense is Pop Warner by design. Low risk dives, run clock, punt and hope for turnovers and short fields. That is the game plan. Why the hell would talent come here ?

 

[mb5789]

I think it's an acceptable excuse. What other school could handle such a large number of key injuries ?
The funny thing is that I thought the season could come crashing down if we suffered a significant injury to KM or AK.

It's unacceptable in the sense that the drop-off between the starters on this team (OL and LB immediately come to mind)and the backups is MASSIVE. Like borderline unplayable in terms of the drop-off. Wisconsin was without it's...

QB1 (Tyler Van Dyke)
RB1 (Chez Mellusi)
WR1 (Bryson Green)
FS1 (Kamo'i Latu)
DE1 (James Thompson)

... and still beat us by 35. Rutgers got EXTREMELY lucky with injuries last year and they're having the opposite luck this season. To not have guys in the two deep in YEAR 5 of a program (one that is a self described "developmental program") who can give you passable snaps at all positions is completely and utterly unacceptable.

Rutgers has done a phenomenal job of retaining players as well. In Schiano's 5 years here, I can only think of two guys who left that Rutgers wanted to keep:

S Alijah Clark
DL Rene Konga

That's it. If we were getting poached left and right, that'd be one thing. But Rutgers has whiffed BIG TIME in the 2021, 2022 and 2023 classes.

Had Greg not landed the following guys after he was hired for the 2020 class, think of how screwed we'd be...

CB Robert Longerbeam (12/11/19)
CB Max Melton (12/11/19)
LB Tyreem Powell (12/12/19)
RB Kyle Monangai (12/17/19)
DE Wesley Bailey (12/21/19)
DL Rene Konga (7/14/20)
DE Aaron Lewis (7/20/20)
OT Hollin Pierce (walked on)

 

[Shelby65]

Nah, that's obviously not it. Nobody makes it their personal mission to bash a person the way you bash Schiano on an hourly basis without some kind of personal grudge. If it was just not thinking he's the guy for the job, you wouldn't be talking about his personality like that.

Arrogance? Obnoxiously high on himself? No sincere humility?

Because it would help recruiting for GS to stop projecting confidence? 😀

C'mon now. Tell us what he did to you. Let it out.

The grudge is based on enduring 5 years so far and expecting 5 more (and probably even more) of dire hopelessness. Every year this stupid Charlie Brown fanbase gets fooled by a 4-1 start and apes RutgersAl.

Yea, his arrogance is really helping recruiting.

 

[gef21]

Who besides Clark Harris ? 20 years ago doesn't matter. nobody's asking for Steve Spurrier's phone #. Point is, our offense is Pop Warner by design. Low risk dives, run clock, punt and hope for turnovers and short fields. That is the game plan. Why the hell would talent come here ?

Harris and Kroft are the last two very good TEs we have had.

 

[gef21]

It's unacceptable in the sense that the drop-off between the starters on this team (OL and LB immediately come to mind) is MASSIVE. Like borderline unplayable in terms of the drop-off. Wisconsin was without it's...

QB1 (Tyler Van Dyke)
RB1 (Chez Mellusi)
WR1 (Bryson Green)
FS1 (Kamo'i Latu)
DE1 (James Thompson)

... and still beat us by 35. Rutgers got EXTREMELY lucky with injuries last year and they're having the opposite luck this season. To not have guys in the two deep in YEAR 5 of a program (one that is a self described "developmental program") is completely and utterly unacceptable.

Rutgers has done a phenomenal job of retaining players as well. In Schiano's 5 years here, I can only think of two guys who left that Rutgers wanted to keep:

S Alijah Clark
DL Rene Konga

That's it. If we were getting poached left and right, that'd be one thing. But Rutgers has whiffed BIG TIME in the 2021, 2022 and 2023 classes.

Had Greg not landed the following guys after he was hired for the 2020 class, think of how screwed we'd be...

CB Robert Longerbeam (12/11/19)
CB Max Melton (12/11/19)
LB Tyreem Powell (12/12/19)
RB Kyle Monangai (12/17/19)
DE Wesley Bailey (12/21/19)
DL Rene Konga (7/14/20)
DE Aaron Lewis (7/20/20)
OT Hollin Pierce (walked on)

What a loss Konga was in te transfer portal.

 

[Kbee3]

This is depressing. I had hoped our depth better at this point. And our schedule will not likely be as favorable for many years after this season.

Take a look at what our starting units will look like after this season...when the seniors have moved on.
Depressing.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Thank you, Gef, for your thoughts. Always appreciated.
Question for those who have played and/or coached - Roughly how many different plays should an Offense expected to know, be completely comfortable, and proficient at running? To the un-trained eye, it sometimes looks like the RU run less than 20 different plays, or variations of.... In short, seems like they have a small Offensive playbook.

Less can be "more". You often see cases where highly complex systems are replaced by simplified systems which are executed perfectly and exceed that of the former complex system. But you need the right talent no matter which you way you go.. especially at QB.. to make the right choices and execute. Passes thrown behind... no bueno.. especially with suspect hands. Dremel did prove last year he can catch some uncatchable off-the-mark balls. But QB and WRs have to read defenses the same way and do what both expect of each other.. continue the route or sit down for a button pass.. a slight mismatch in timing can look like a bad throw. practice, practice, practice.. at game speed.. in game conditions.. so they al get on the same page. That can take years.. and we have a new QBN and new WRs.

 

[Knight Shift]

Less can be "more". You often see cases where highly complex systems are replaced by simplified systems which are executed perfectly and exceed that of the former complex system. But you need the right talent no matter which you way you go.. especially at QB.. to make the right choices and execute. Passes thrown behind... no bueno.. especially with suspect hands. Dremel did prove last year he can catch some uncatchable off-the-mark balls. But QB and WRs have to read defenses the same way and do what both expect of each other.. continue the route or sit down for a button pass.. a slight mismatch in timing can look like a bad throw. practice, practice, practice.. at game speed.. in game conditions.. so they al get on the same page. That can take years.. and we have a new QBN and new WRs.

Mike Leach's play book was on a single piece of paper the size of an index card. He often out-schemed and beat more talented teams. But he was very unique.

 

[mdk01]

Who besides Clark Harris ? 20 years ago doesn't matter. nobody's asking for Steve Spurrier's phone #. Point is, our offense is Pop Warner by design. Low risk dives, run clock, punt and hope for turnovers and short fields. That is the game plan. Why the hell would talent come here ?

Besides Harris, Sam Johnson, who had a shot at the NFL but had to hang 'em up because by his senior he had too many concussions.

 

[Knight Shift]

Interesting on a turnaround in offense with a coordinator on chemo drugs fighting leukemia (article paywalled):



He said a big reason why Lubick’s offense is so successful is that he’s remarkably detailed, especially when it comes to his third-down and red zone plays and by the ways he sequences the other downs to complement what Nevada does in those special situations.

“I’m not exaggerating. He’ll have a 1,600-play cut-up of third-down stuff,” Choate said. “His genius in what he’s been able to do is he’s pulling from all this stuff. He’s got this voluminous bank of information. He’ll be in a meeting and he’ll tell the GAs, ‘Hey, pull up Penn State–Ohio State 2013. I think it’s probably in the second quarter.’ Sure enough, the guy will PFF-it, and there is it. It’s a man-beater that we’re gonna run on third down against Georgia Southern or whoever. It’s crazy.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5848382/2024/10/17/matt-lubick-nevada-leukemia/

 

[mdk01]

Harris and Kroft are the last two very good TEs we have had.

Sam Johnson.

 

[NickRU714]

I could see extending the DC, as he seemed to be in demand. But why the need to extend KC through 2026 after 1 year on the job? And back to DC, still wondering if Corey Hetherman may have been the "man behind the curtain" on defense. He's now doing a decent job in first year as DC at Minnesota. That game could be a real ball buster for Rutgers.

Remember all these premature extensions and salary increases when revenue-sharing comes up and people claim "But the AD loses money. There is no money to spare!"

It's crazy that fans take the blame for not fully-funding ADs (not just Rutgers) reckless unlimited spending.

 

[mb5789]

Who besides Clark Harris ? 20 years ago doesn't matter. nobody's asking for Steve Spurrier's phone #. Point is, our offense is Pop Warner by design. Low risk dives, run clock, punt and hope for turnovers and short fields. That is the game plan. Why the hell would talent come here ?

TEs in recent memory outside of Harris who played at RU and played in the NFL...

Kevin Brock was undrafted and played 7 years in the NFL
DC Jefferson was drafted in the 7th round and played 2 years in the NFL
Tim Wright was undrafted and played 3 years in the NFL (won a SB with NE)
Tyler Kroft was drafted in the 3rd round and played 9 years in the NFL
Travis Vokolek was undrafted and has played 2 years in the NFL (active)

 

[Knight Shift]

Remember all these premature extensions and salary increases when revenue-sharing comes up and people claim "But the AD loses money. There is no money to spare!"

It's crazy that fans take the blame for not fully-funding ADs (not just Rutgers) reckless unlimited spending.

We both need to shut up and keep ponying up more money each year and be good little fans. It will eventually pay off, trust us!

 

[Knight Shift]

TEs outside of Harris who played at RU and played in the NFL...

Kevin Brock was undrafted and played 7 years in the NFL
DC Jefferson was drafted in the 7th round and played 2 years in the NFL
Tim Wright was undrafted and played 3 years in the NFL (won a SB with NE)
Tyler Kroft was drafted in the 3rd round and played 9 years in the NFL
Travis Vokolek was undrafted and has played 2 years in the NFL (active)

Vokolek, the last good TE, left after his sophomore year for greener cornfields, and finished his last 3 years at Frosty Nebraska. Smart move by him.

Travis Vokolek Career Stats - NCAAF - ESPN

Complete career NCAAF stats for Nebraska Cornhuskers Tight End Travis Vokolek on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

 

[NickRU714]

This is what I have been saying for 2 years in regards to the offensive scheme. If we are so deficient in talent why are we not scheming to our strengths? Why do we show no urgency or pace when needed? I noted last year specifically with red zone offense. That many of the play designs need perfect execution to be successful. That is the area that simplicity and fundamentals win out. I am not calling for gimmick plays. KC needs to stop overthinking things.

"Because this is who Rutgers is."
There is some sort of fait accompli that we must mimic 90s Wisconsin and can't possibly deviate from it as a high level scheme.

We are scheming to the team we eventually expect to become.
Even though after almost 20 years we've not become it.
And even though all those teams moved away from it too.

The irony is people always point out the 1 year of a modern offense style "we hired an up tempo OC and it didn't work for that 1 year we tried it!" but ignore the 15 years of not running over oppenents.

 

[gef21]

Mike Leach's play book was on a single piece of paper the size of an index card. He often out-schemed and beat more talented teams. But he was very unique.

I would have moved my family to even GA for Leach.

 

[kupuna133]

I would have moved my family to even GA for Leach.

Had the pleasure of meeting Hal Mumme and sitting and chatting with him on a couple of occasions. He and Leach created the air raid offense together. What a great time. Preached simplicity and repetition lead to mastery. And mastery leads to success.