Nebby Covid

[bac2therac]

And you think calling one of the most respected public health scientists of our time, who served countless administrations with distinction, disparaging names is helpful? I don't. And for the record, as much as I reviled the previous POTUS, I never called him names.

do you think it was respectful when he talked back to Ted Cruz. Fauci is an unelected employee. The amount of protection some give him is truly bizarre. He has presided over 900K deaths, one constant in this whole pandemic. He will gone by the midterms to avoid House investigations when the Republicans take over

 

[Yeah Baby]

did you watch the video, watch it again please, listen to what she said

and masking works so much that the cases exploded in Europe where they were praised for having shut down the virus, ditto for Australia.....

The virus did its thing in states everywhere. The graph or the virus is what was put up by the Whitehouse medical staff in March of 2020. We might have flattened the first curve with lockdowns but paid for it last January. The vaccine I do believe is clearly helping. The little that masks have helped in the spread will be far outweighed by the damage they cause. Mental and physical. We have turned a lot of people into freaks with the paranoia. Probably both ways.

 

[RU848789]

do you think it was respectful when he talked back to Ted Cruz. Fauci is an unelected employee. The amount of protection some give him is truly bizarre. He has presided over 900K deaths, one constant in this whole pandemic. He will gone by the midterms to avoid House investigations when the Republicans take over

Zero issue with what Fauci said about Cruz, given the ridiculous allegations Cruz made against Fauci. The fact that a scientist of his stature needs bodyguards and protection for his family because of the way politicians have made him a target is beyond the pale.

 

[Yeah Baby]

And you think calling one of the most respected public health scientists of our time, who served countless administrations with distinction, disparaging names is helpful? I don't. And for the record, as much as I reviled the previous POTUS, I never called him names.

You were a jaxjwad about Trump. I made a pun. Don’t tell me how to act.

Fauci flipped on the mask issue. Caused a lot of people not to believe him. I tried to like him and wanted to believe in him but he flipped on this and now 2 years later is saying the definition of Covid hospitalizations is falsely characterized. I do think he has a tough job but lying about the masks at one point or the other is just wrong and makes him political. He lied in February 2020 or lied when he came out and said he was coerced to say that. Either way that makes him look bad to many people. His job is to tell the truth and nothing else every day. He failed in the mask issue.

 

[Knight Shift]

And you think calling one of the most respected public health scientists of our time, who served countless administrations with distinction, disparaging names is helpful? I don't. And for the record, as much as I reviled the previous POTUS, I never called him names.

Fauci is a disingenuous disaster. He should have lost his job for the way he handled AIDS.

He and Collins are a couple of hacks, caught in e-mails promoting take downs of respected scientists who disagreed with their narrative.

Lied in a Congressional hearing about the research he supported in China.

Most respected by whom?

An Open Letter to Dr. Anthony Fauci - The Village Voice

Editor’s note: In 1988, activist Larry Kramer excoriated Dr. Anthony Fauci because the National Institutes of Health was not moving fast enough to find a...

www.villagevoice.com

 

[RU848789]

You were a jaxjwad about Trump. I made a pun. Don’t tell me how to act.

Fauci flipped on the mask issue. Caused a lot of people not to believe him. I tried to like him and wanted to believe in him but he flipped on this and now 2 years later is saying the definition of Covid hospitalizations is falsely characterized. I do think he has a tough job but lying about the masks at one point or the other is just wrong and makes him political. He lied in February 2020 or lied when he came out and said he was coerced to say that. Either way that makes him look bad to many people. His job is to tell the truth and nothing else every day. He failed in the mask issue.

I didn't tell you how to act at all - I simply asked you whether or not you thought namecalling was helpful and you didn't answer. I don't think it is, but you're still free to do so. I like when people act like adults.

 

[RU848789]

Fauci is a disingenuous disaster. He should have lost his job for the way he handled AIDS.

He and Collins are a couple of hacks, caught in e-mails promoting take downs of respected scientists who disagreed with their narrative.

Lied in a Congressional hearing about the research he supported in China.

Most respected by whom?

An Open Letter to Dr. Anthony Fauci - The Village Voice

Editor’s note: In 1988, activist Larry Kramer excoriated Dr. Anthony Fauci because the National Institutes of Health was not moving fast enough to find a...

www.villagevoice.com

Did you even read the preamble to the old letter from Kramer back in 1988? Yes Kramer said some nasty things about Fauci back then, but he said nasty things about anyone involved in our government's then very weak efforts to research and combat HIV and that weak response was largely orchestrated by Reagan and his Administration who took years to even acknowledge its existence, let alone provide much funding to research it and potential treatments/cures. Fauci and Collins were in the crosshairs of Kramer because of their NIH positions and being part of the Administration, not because they weren't trying to advance the research.

https://www.history.com/news/aids-epidemic-ronald-reagan

Editor’s note: In 1988, activist Larry Kramer excoriated Dr. Anthony Fauci because the National Institutes of Health was not moving fast enough to find a cure for AIDS. Kramer pulled no punches in his profanity-laced letter, at one point calling the NIH team “murderers.”

But in later years the activist and the doctor became friends. A few months after Kramer’s death from pneumonia, in May 2020, an NBC News article looked back on their friendship, noting,

While Kramer was one of Fauci’s loudest critics during the early days of the AIDS crisis, Fauci said the late activist was one of his strongest defenders during the early days of the Covid-19 outbreak.
“He became kind of protective,” Fauci said, recalling that Kramer was livid when he heard the immunologist faced death threats and incendiary attacks over his calls for Americans to wear masks and follow social distancing measures during the initial months of the coronavirus pandemic.

Also, American Pharma companies, working in concert with NIH, especially with regard to how to better conducgt HIV clinical trials under Fauci's direction, were the first ones to develop effective treatments and eventual near cures for HIV, so I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate Fauci's role in that effort, which is detailed nicely in the link below. I don't think you actually have any idea what was going on back in the late 80s and 90s with regard to such research. I do, as I actually was personally invested in those efforts, spending a couple of years working 70-80 hour weeks to bring the world's first successful lifesaving HIV treatment, Crixivan (a protease inhibitor), to patients in the mid-1990s.

We were making the active ingredient in our Merck pilot plants for the ongoing clinical trials and when it became clear the drug was a wonder drug, saving patients lives, the patient community started screaming for all we could make (can't blame them for that), so we actually were making the active ingredient for sale and for compassionate use in those pilot plants and in 2 new factories in GA/VA 24/7 to try to save lives. Every gram of material we made was used and the feedback from the community was amazing and there's just no way such drugs would have made it to market as fast as they did without Fauci's guidance and involvement - which I heard directly from the clinical leads of the Crixivan program, who I dealt with regularly, as their need for every gram we could make was acute.

So yeah, I have a ton of respect for Dr. Fauci.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ony-fauci-changed-medicine-in-america-forever

 

[SkilletHead2]

Fauci was head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases under Reagan during AIDS and Trump during COVID. Tough assignments as neither president wanted to acknowledge the severity of the disease being fought. His initial mask recommendations didn't make sense to me, either, though. But he has been right and fought the good fight even when his boss wouldn't.

Thanks for the science throughout this thread, Numb3rs.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

That was unacceptable in that school...

in THAT school?

 

[SkilletHead2]

in THAT school?

That was where it took place. Numb3rs just being specific. Is this what you have been reduced to in this argument? That was quick.

 

[RU848789]

Fauci was head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases under Reagan during AIDS and Trump during COVID. Tough assignments as neither president wanted to acknowledge the severity of the disease being fought. His initial mask recommendations didn't make sense to me, either, though. But he has been right and fought the good fight even when his boss wouldn't.

Thanks for the science throughout this thread, Numb3rs.

Thanks for weighing in with useful information, as usual. Maybe you should be a mod over here so you can moderate COVID and weather threads on this board, lol.

 

[Knight Shift]

Did you even read the preamble to the old letter from Kramer back in 1988? Yes Kramer said some nasty things about Fauci back then, but he said nasty things about anyone involved in our government's then very weak efforts to research and combat HIV and that weak response was largely orchestrated by Reagan and his Administration who took years to even acknowledge its existence, let alone provide much funding to research it and potential treatments/cures. Fauci and Collins were in the crosshairs of Kramer because of their NIH positions and being part of the Administration, not because they weren't trying to advance the research.

https://www.history.com/news/aids-epidemic-ronald-reagan

Editor’s note: In 1988, activist Larry Kramer excoriated Dr. Anthony Fauci because the National Institutes of Health was not moving fast enough to find a cure for AIDS. Kramer pulled no punches in his profanity-laced letter, at one point calling the NIH team “murderers.”

But in later years the activist and the doctor became friends. A few months after Kramer’s death from pneumonia, in May 2020, an NBC News article looked back on their friendship, noting,



Also, American Pharma companies, working in concert with NIH, especially with regard to how to better conducgt HIV clinical trials under Fauci's direction, were the first ones to develop effective treatments and eventual near cures for HIV, so I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate Fauci's role in that effort, which is detailed nicely in the link below. I don't think you actually have any idea what was going on back in the late 80s and 90s with regard to such research. I do, as I actually was personally invested in those efforts, spending a couple of years working 70-80 hour weeks to bring the world's first successful lifesaving HIV treatment, Crixivan (a protease inhibitor), to patients in the mid-1990s.

We were making the active ingredient in our Merck pilot plants for the ongoing clinical trials and when it became clear the drug was a wonder drug, saving patients lives, the patient community started screaming for all we could make (can't blame them for that), so we actually were making the active ingredient for sale and for compassionate use in those pilot plants and in 2 new factories in GA/VA 24/7 to try to save lives. Every gram of material we made was used and the feedback from the community was amazing and there's just no way such drugs would have made it to market as fast as they did without Fauci's guidance and involvement - which I heard directly from the clinical leads of the Crixivan program, who I dealt with regularly, as their need for every gram we could make was acute.

So yeah, I have a ton of respect for Dr. Fauci.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ony-fauci-changed-medicine-in-america-forever

We can differ on this. Amazing how two people can see the same person completely differently.
All we need to know about Fauci is his statement: "I am science." And the man has a huge painting of himself on the wall of his office. Dangerous, lying megalomaniac. Science is a process. It is not any one (or two or three) person's view, contrary to the political hacks that inhabit government. What Collins and Fauci did is very concerning. Frightening authoritarianism.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Wrong again - what's it like to be wrong so often and badly? If not for delta, we were well on our way to endemicity with the original strain, with transmissions very low and deaths quite low and if we had continued with strong vaccination rates I think we would've gotten there. But delta and then omicron couldn't have been predicted (although we knew variants were likely) and they changed the game as we've seen.

Countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Japan and several others had essentially triumphed vs the original strain with about 1/20th to 1/100th our per capita death rates and without completely shutting their countries down, via excellent testing/tracing/isolating, which the former Adminitration completely bungled allowing us to have a horrific outbreak and then additional ones. If not for delta, those countries would've completely been vaccinated without ever having much death or lockdowns, but delta and omicron impacted them some too - but still much less than us.

LOL with the apples-to-mars comparisons of the US to SoKo, Taiwan, Japan. Again.

 

[patk89]

I think everyone would readily admit that if the Chinese govt had been honest about the origins and the rapid person-to-person transmission in real time, this might have been contained. At the minimum, much tougher restrictions would have been put in place earlier. It is now clear that this came from the Wuhan Lab. Does anyone dispute that anymore? The conspiracy to hide this fact needs to be further investigated. Why did top western scientists lie about this when they all should have been following the facts, as hidden as those facts were by govt officials in China. It is important to know how this all started. Not to place blame, but to prevent it from happening again.

 

[RU848789]

...

 

[RU848789]

I think everyone would readily admit that if the Chinese govt had been honest about the origins and the rapid person-to-person transmission in real time, this might have been contained. At the minimum, much tougher restrictions would have been put in place earlier. It is now clear that this came from the Wuhan Lab. Does anyone dispute that anymore? The conspiracy to hide this fact needs to be further investigated. Why did top western scientists lie about this when they all should have been following the facts, as hidden as those facts were by govt officials in China. It is important to know how this all started. Not to place blame, but to prevent it from happening again.

Everyone would agree that China's role in suppressing information about the early days of this virus, including key data on it being an airborne virus with high transmissibility, was negligent to criminal, which I've been saying since March of 2020. However, it is far from clear that this came from the Wuhan Lab and only most virologists dispute that - you need to read more of what scientists are saying about this.

While it's certainly possible that the "lab leak" origin is correct, many, if not most evolutionary virologists still believe that SARS-CoV-2 originated the way every other virus in history has originated, i.e., via natural evolution - in this case via zoonotic jump from bats to humans (perhaps by an intermediate host), just like the SARS and MERS coronaviruses did, but until a smoking gun source can be found, they also acknowledge a lab leak source is possible. We agree that China needs to be much more transparent on this, but I'm not holding my breath.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...ery-scientists-focus-on-covids-animal-origins

 

[bac2therac]

THEY shut down talk about questioning where it came from...revisionist history, anyone who asked question was TOLD....YOU ARE WRONG, STOP SPREADING DISINFORMATION

it is their same play they use when someone dares to question ANYTHING done in the past 2 years

 

[mildone]

This is very sad.

Any thread about COVID on this forum turns to pure shit almost instantly. Science is mocked. Nuance is mocked. Medical professionals in our community are mocked. Discussions at any level of detail below a tweeted meme is mocked. Misinformation is worshiped. Trolling is applauded.

Facts supporting a position are cherry-picked while facts unsupportive of that position are denied, intentionally misstated and mocked. And the people doing this actually believe they sound intelligent.

Currently 860,000 dead. A total nothing-burger, amirite? Obviously it's vastly more important who we blame than working together to save lives and prevent even more deadly variants.

There's absolutely no point in trying to discuss COVID on this forum.

At this point, I think every single post or thread that even hints about COVID should be deleted and anybody participating should be banned for a week.

 

[bac2therac]

This is very sad.

Any thread about COVID on this forum turns to pure shit almost instantly. Science is mocked. Nuance is mocked. Medical professionals in our community are mocked. Discussions at any level of detail below a tweeted meme is mocked. Misinformation is worshiped. Trolling is applauded.

Facts supporting a position are cherry-picked while facts unsupportive of that position are denied, intentionally misstated and mocked. And the people doing this actually believe they sound intelligent.

Currently 860,000 dead. A total nothing-burger, amirite? Obviously it's vastly more important who we blame than working together to save lives and prevent even more deadly variants.

There's absolutely no point in trying to discuss COVID on this forum.

At this point, I think every single post or thread that even hints about COVID should be deleted and anybody participating should be banned for a week.

its because questioning was mocked and we were told to shut up from day one, are you disputing that, anytime anything was challenged it was met with "400K people have died","just wear your mask for a few weeks", "think of other and stop being so selfish", "follow the science", "you are a trumpanzee conspiracy theorist"

I keep telling you why there is a divide. The morality play and shutting down of any discussion of science..often outright banning social media presence of doctors who do not follow the company line money train created massive distrust. The INABILITY to ever admit THEY got things WRONG sometimes. The lying about what vaccines would do....and then trying to actually claim they didnt say that..yes they did, we have countless videos saying exactly that

also the refusal to give end games for getting out this, its moving the goal posts each time we have a spike. The brutalness of blue state mayors and governors making this entirely about political power while they laugh and do not follow their own guidelines.

oh and look another poster throwing in the 860K deaths to morally shut the discussion down

And another one wants discussion shut down because he does not like getting challenged, only HIS WAY is RIGHT AND MORAL. Face facts Covid effects EVERYONE, EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION AND SHOULD HAVE INPUT...EVERYONE whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Kodiak Bear]

Did you even read the preamble to the old letter from Kramer back in 1988? Yes Kramer said some nasty things about Fauci back then, but he said nasty things about anyone involved in our government's then very weak efforts to research and combat HIV and that weak response was largely orchestrated by Reagan and his Administration who took years to even acknowledge its existence, let alone provide much funding to research it and potential treatments/cures. Fauci and Collins were in the crosshairs of Kramer because of their NIH positions and being part of the Administration, not because they weren't trying to advance the research.

https://www.history.com/news/aids-epidemic-ronald-reagan

Editor’s note: In 1988, activist Larry Kramer excoriated Dr. Anthony Fauci because the National Institutes of Health was not moving fast enough to find a cure for AIDS. Kramer pulled no punches in his profanity-laced letter, at one point calling the NIH team “murderers.”

But in later years the activist and the doctor became friends. A few months after Kramer’s death from pneumonia, in May 2020, an NBC News article looked back on their friendship, noting,



Also, American Pharma companies, working in concert with NIH, especially with regard to how to better conducgt HIV clinical trials under Fauci's direction, were the first ones to develop effective treatments and eventual near cures for HIV, so I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate Fauci's role in that effort, which is detailed nicely in the link below. I don't think you actually have any idea what was going on back in the late 80s and 90s with regard to such research. I do, as I actually was personally invested in those efforts, spending a couple of years working 70-80 hour weeks to bring the world's first successful lifesaving HIV treatment, Crixivan (a protease inhibitor), to patients in the mid-1990s.

We were making the active ingredient in our Merck pilot plants for the ongoing clinical trials and when it became clear the drug was a wonder drug, saving patients lives, the patient community started screaming for all we could make (can't blame them for that), so we actually were making the active ingredient for sale and for compassionate use in those pilot plants and in 2 new factories in GA/VA 24/7 to try to save lives. Every gram of material we made was used and the feedback from the community was amazing and there's just no way such drugs would have made it to market as fast as they did without Fauci's guidance and involvement - which I heard directly from the clinical leads of the Crixivan program, who I dealt with regularly, as their need for every gram we could make was acute.

So yeah, I have a ton of respect for Dr. Fauci.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ony-fauci-changed-medicine-in-america-forever

You can't argue with these guys on this. Fauci is the current target of the 2 mins of hate. Facts don't matter.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

At this point, I think every single post or thread that even hints about COVID should be deleted and anybody participating should be banned for a week.

Will you be self-imposing a ban for yourself? 😉

It is likely that the covid arguments on the board have done little to change minds, but I don't mind letting them roll. Easy enough to just not read them for those who don't want to read them.

Re: Fauci, it seems clear that he is extremely polarizing and a high % of the population will instantly dismiss anything he says, and another high % will instantly accept anything he says. It feels like having a new messenger would be beneficial (higher chance of getting everyone to hear that voice and evaluate what the message) but I don't see that happening.

 

[bac2therac]

you do make a good point, Fauci is immediately toxic right now because half the country does not believe anything he says. As for the CDC, it seems like both sides of the aisle are losing trust with them. I agree, they would be better off putting out a new face..perhaps 2 or 3. Birx who I liked at first seemed to be more likable to conservatives then Fauci and its funny the left disliked her and then eventually everyone disliked her. Anyone you put out there will have a tough job but I think its time for someone else to be the face. Like I said earlier with Republicans likely to get the House back, I see Fauci retiring before November anyhow.

 

[patk89]

https://www.science.org/content/art...s-say-unlikely-sars-cov-2-originated-lab-leak

Pretty balanced article from Science which leans toward this not being a lab leak but a leak not being out of the question. But pretty damning stuff nonetheless.

"China has been pushing the theory that the virus came from another country—maybe brought in on frozen food, or, according to baseless propaganda, concocted at a U.S. military lab. “It’s comical,” Worobey says. “The big picture here is China is doing everything it can to push the narrative that this pandemic started outside of China.” He suspects that while rejecting the lab-leak theory, the Chinese government is also unenthusiastic about pursuing a natural origin, fearing that proof would expose China to further blame for a pandemic even if the discovery exonerated Chinese scientists. “I think at some point they thought, here’s the strategy: We try to muddy the waters,” he says."

 

[ancienthooper]

its because questioning was mocked and we were told to shut up from day one, are you disputing that, anytime anything was challenged it was met with "400K people have died","just wear your mask for a few weeks", "think of other and stop being so selfish", "follow the science", "you are a trumpanzee conspiracy theorist"

I keep telling you why there is a divide. The morality play and shutting down of any discussion of science..often outright banning social media presence of doctors who do not follow the company line money train created massive distrust. The INABILITY to ever admit THEY got things WRONG sometimes. The lying about what vaccines would do....and then trying to actually claim they didnt say that..yes they did, we have countless videos saying exactly that

also the refusal to give end games for getting out this, its moving the goal posts each time we have a spike. The brutalness of blue state mayors and governors making this entirely about political power while they laugh and do not follow their own guidelines.

oh and look another poster throwing in the 860K deaths to morally shut the discussion down

And another one wants discussion shut down because he does not like getting challenged, only HIS WAY is RIGHT AND MORAL. Face facts Covid effects EVERYONE, EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION AND SHOULD HAVE INPUT...EVERYONE whether you agree with it or not.

I don't think he's "throwing in" the 860k dead in order to shut the discussion down. He's throwing it in because 860,000 dead people is kind of a salient point.

 

[mildone]

Will you be self-imposing a ban for yourself? 😉

It is likely that the covid arguments on the board have done little to change minds, but I don't mind letting them roll. Easy enough to just not read them for those who don't want to read them.

Re: Fauci, it seems clear that he is extremely polarizing and a high % of the population will instantly dismiss anything he says, and another high % will instantly accept anything he says. It feels like having a new messenger would be beneficial (higher chance of getting everyone to hear that voice and evaluate what the message) but I don't see that happening.

As long as people keep posting cherry picked stuff about COVID, while ignoring tons of other available data, then I will chime in with moderate posts that seek to provide non-ideological facts in an effort to not allow disinformation and misinformation from dominating the discussion.

For example, when people say "masks don't work", I correct that by saying "masks work to varying degrees depending on a number of factors". Oversimplification is disinformation. People might not like embracing nuance, but reality is nuanced.

I don't care about Fauci, I don't refer to him and neither support nor attack him. I don't even know why people keep bringing him up repeatedly. We can have factual, helpful, informational threads about COVID without every once engaging in finger pointing at politicians or at specific people in the medical or scientific community. Playing gotcha is pointless.

A preponderance of scientific research, a preponderance of medical community literature, is going to be be more useful and informative than anybody's cherry-picked research study or anybody's you-tube video. People who take a study or two, or some commentary from one point in time, and use that to support a narrative, rather than evaluating the preponderance of available information, are providing nothing of use to our RU sports community.

But since I know that the folks who destroy these discussions with finger pointing and repeated posts of singular cherry picked "facts" are not going to stop. So I'd just as soon see Ritchie issue a rule banning all discussion of COVID in any form, so I don't have to keep coming in these moronic threads and providing the missing nuance and supplying links (that nobody reads) to studies supporting the predominate scientific and medical information about COVID. I NEVER bring up COVID or masks or anything related. I never complain about cancellations or postponements.

I only ever join in to counter the constant disinformation and misinformation.

The discussion level is so moronic at this point, that people actually try to prevent the posting of the number of COVID deaths by mocking morality? Because facts are the enemy? Because morality is bad?

It's all very sad and irritating now. I'd be very happy to never discuss COVID or anything related to COVID on this forum again. But the folks spreading nonsense about it have to stop as they're the ones who keep bringing it up.

 

[bac2therac]

yet you are still here, you cannot resist and you will continue to post in this thread..this poster believes ONLY what he think isnt cherry picked is acceptable...can you believe that

and the new word now for them is NUANCED DISCUSSION...I am seeing this everywhere now

because we have receipts on lies now the defense is but its NUANCED....cannot make this up, too funny, always a way to try to squirm out of it

 

[superfan01]

And you think calling one of the most respected public health scientists of our time, who served countless administrations with distinction, disparaging names is helpful? I don't. And for the record, as much as I reviled the previous POTUS, I never called him names.

@Yeah Baby spread fake covid info all of last year. Told people not to get tested. He is a dummy. Just ignore him.

 

[mildone]

I don't think he's "throwing in" the 860k dead in order to shut the discussion down. He's throwing it in because 860,000 dead people is kind of a salient point.

Exactly. It's an extremely salient point.

What I would love to see is a rational and fact-filled discussion where people go out and research available information WITHOUT ANY BIAS towards the result. But very, very few are actually doing that.

Because doing that means at least reading the summaries of the many readily available research studies out there across many different sources (CDC, WHO, numerous hospitals and other medical organizations). Or if lazy about reading, at least read the summaries of that information presented by all the various hospitals out there.

The world is still learning about COVID -19 and COVID-19 is a rapidly evolving thing; so research results on one variant yesterday may be invalid regarding a new variant today or tomorrow. Which is something constantly ignored by those seeking to sell the narrative that they like best.

Good and complete information is not about what one professional (Fauci, Wen or any other one person) might say about it. It's not what any one particular report says. It's not about our best understanding from two years ago, which is now ancient given the rapid evolution of COVID-19 variants and knowledge.

The best (albeit never perfect in such a rapidly evolving situation) information lies in the evolving preponderance of unbiased scientific and medical research out there. Citing this or that cherry-picked bit of information is just spreading misinformation or disinformation. If everybody sticks to the preponderance of information, we'd all be seeing broad agreement here, and adapting to information as it evolves.

Instead we're seeing nonstop uninformed divisiveness borne of half-truths and the desire to wipe away the unpleasant and inconvenient realities of COVID-19.

But many here will absolutely refuse to understand that, even if they can understand it, which is far from certain in many cases.

 

[mildone]

yet you are still here, you cannot resist and you will continue to post in this thread..this poster believes ONLY what he think isnt cherry picked is acceptable...can you believe that

and the new word now for them is NUANCED DISCUSSION...I am seeing this everywhere now

because we have receipts on lies now the defense is but its NUANCED....cannot make this up, too funny, always a way to try to squirm out of it

You can always be counted upon to demonize morality, nuance, facts, logic, and the virtue of considering the preponderance of available factual evidence over opinion, Bac. 🤣

It's interesting that I didn't personalize anything I said nor did I choose any sides in the debate. I merely called for judging based on a preponderance of factual evidence. Yet you obviously took that very personally. Hm.

Switching gears for a moment, how's that whole deep state investigation, that you were championing so intensely 5 year ago, going? It's been over 5 years now and I'm still waiting on all the indictments, arrests, and convictions you promised. Funny how treating 24/7 partial-truth-based propaganda as fact never works out the way you want, no?

 

[bac2therac]

🙄

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

just saying..

 

[mildone]

🙄

That's the most intelligent thing you've ever said, Bac. Maybe stick to just pictures from now on. 😉

 

[bac2therac]

 

[patk89]

No question this guy has a gargantuan ego. Not attractive in someone in his position. Maybe been working for the federal govt too long?

 

[mildone]

Seriously? Who GAF about Fauci? The guy could spontaneously catch fire and it would mean absolutely nothing to the world.

The fact that you're obsessed with the guy highlights how all this is some weird game of gotcha for you. You don't care that 860K people died. You've got people to demonize - that's what's really important here, amirite?

Yeah, yeah, we know. If I'm not demonizing or worshiping someone, I'm not doing it right.

 

[bmtRUgrad]

So.... Game is still on?

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

So.... Game is still on?

waiting on Fauci's decision😐

 

[RU848789]

https://www.science.org/content/art...s-say-unlikely-sars-cov-2-originated-lab-leak

Pretty balanced article from Science which leans toward this not being a lab leak but a leak not being out of the question. But pretty damning stuff nonetheless.

"China has been pushing the theory that the virus came from another country—maybe brought in on frozen food, or, according to baseless propaganda, concocted at a U.S. military lab. “It’s comical,” Worobey says. “The big picture here is China is doing everything it can to push the narrative that this pandemic started outside of China.” He suspects that while rejecting the lab-leak theory, the Chinese government is also unenthusiastic about pursuing a natural origin, fearing that proof would expose China to further blame for a pandemic even if the discovery exonerated Chinese scientists. “I think at some point they thought, here’s the strategy: We try to muddy the waters,” he says."

That's an excellent article, which I linked months ago when it came out in one of the now deleted threads, and it features many of the same experts that the article I linked above does. Are you now moving off your position that, "It is now clear that this came from the Wuhan Lab. Does anyone dispute that anymore?" I hope so. None of what I posted or the info in these articles "proves" the lab leak theory is wrong (very hard to prove something couldn't have happened) and that there's a natural origin for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but the evidence makes it pretty clear that a natural origin is at least far more likely, scientifically.

In addition, this article does a great job of taking down the "gain of function" lab engineered source for creation of CV2, which I've also posted about extensively. The part below is key and even one of the original and most highly respected proponents of the GoF potential source (Dr. David Baltimore, Nobel winner), due to what he thought was the uniqe furin cleavage moiety in CV2, which he said didn't exist in other coronaviruses, has since backpedaled on all of this.

The “smoking gun” evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was engineered, in the words of virologist and Nobel laureate David Baltimore, has not held up either. Spike has a cleavage site, a spot where a human enzyme named furin cuts the protein, which helps SARS-CoV-2 infect cells. Since early in the pandemic, lab-origin proponents have claimed that no SARS-related bat coronaviruses have this feature, leading to speculation that a lab added the site to a virus so it could infect humans. When retired New York Times writer Nicholas Wade made the case for a lab leak this spring, the furin cleavage site, buttressed by Baltimore’s provocative words, was an essential part of the argument.

But it’s dead wrong, say many coronavirus specialists and evolutionary biologists. The SARS-related coronaviruses are in the beta genus, one of four in the Coronaviridae family. Several members of that genus feature furin cleavage sites, which appear to have evolved repeatedly. And one SARS-CoV-2–related virus, described in a Current Biology paper last year by a team led by Shi Weifeng of Shandong First Medical University, has three of the four amino acids that constitute the furin cleavage site, which is “strongly suggestive of a natural zoonotic origin” for SARS-CoV-2, the authors concluded.

Baltimore has backpedaled the statement. He did not know several bat beta coronaviruses have the furin cleavage site, he acknowledged in an email to Science. “[T]here is more to this story than I am aware of,” he wrote. “The furin cleavage is the most ridiculous stuff,” Wang says.

 

[bac2therac]

Seriously? Who GAF about Fauci? The guy could spontaneously catch fire and it would mean absolutely nothing to the world.

The fact that you're obsessed with the guy highlights how all this is some weird game of gotcha for you. You don't care that 860K people died. You've got people to demonize - that's what's really important here, amirite?

Yeah, yeah, we know. If I'm not demonizing or worshiping someone, I'm not doing it right.

because he is the 100% face of covid and the MSM has him as the poster boy to deliver your Covid information...and you are saying who care about him....rather odd

 

[mildone]

That's an excellent article, which I linked months ago when it came out in one of the now deleted threads, and it features many of the same experts that the article I linked above does. Are you now moving off your position that, "It is now clear that this came from the Wuhan Lab. Does anyone dispute that anymore?" I hope so. None of what I posted or the info in these articles "proves" the lab leak theory is wrong (very hard to prove something couldn't have happened) and that there's a natural origin for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but the evidence makes it pretty clear that a natural origin is at least far more likely, scientifically.

In addition, this article does a great job of taking down the "gain of function" lab engineered source for creation of CV2, which I've also posted about extensively. The part below is key and even one of the original and most highly respected proponents of the GoF potential source (Dr. David Baltimore, Nobel winner), due to what he thought was the uniqe furin cleavage moiety in CV2, which he said didn't exist in other coronaviruses, has since backpedaled on all of this.

The “smoking gun” evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was engineered, in the words of virologist and Nobel laureate David Baltimore, has not held up either. Spike has a cleavage site, a spot where a human enzyme named furin cuts the protein, which helps SARS-CoV-2 infect cells. Since early in the pandemic, lab-origin proponents have claimed that no SARS-related bat coronaviruses have this feature, leading to speculation that a lab added the site to a virus so it could infect humans. When retired New York Times writer Nicholas Wade made the case for a lab leak this spring, the furin cleavage site, buttressed by Baltimore’s provocative words, was an essential part of the argument.

But it’s dead wrong, say many coronavirus specialists and evolutionary biologists. The SARS-related coronaviruses are in the beta genus, one of four in the Coronaviridae family. Several members of that genus feature furin cleavage sites, which appear to have evolved repeatedly. And one SARS-CoV-2–related virus, described in a Current Biology paper last year by a team led by Shi Weifeng of Shandong First Medical University, has three of the four amino acids that constitute the furin cleavage site, which is “strongly suggestive of a natural zoonotic origin” for SARS-CoV-2, the authors concluded.

Baltimore has backpedaled the statement. He did not know several bat beta coronaviruses have the furin cleavage site, he acknowledged in an email to Science. “[T]here is more to this story than I am aware of,” he wrote. “The furin cleavage is the most ridiculous stuff,” Wang says.

As you say, absolute proof of the origins of this virus is unlikely to be found. For me, while it may be academically interesting, it's not particularly relevant. Because even if we could prove it originated in a lab in China, or prove that it didn't, I'm not seeing how it will change anything at this point.

Beyond lots of political noise and possibly some relatively short-lived sanctions, nothing would come of the information. China's government doesn't care because they don't have an opposition party to get voted out of power over it. And we're not going to war over it.

We can't control what China does, we can only control what we do. So I'm much more concerned with what the US does to find a way to get ahead of the virus. And I'm more concerned with how we prepare for the next one.