Nebby Covid

[bac2therac]

The news about those who had Delta but were unvaxxed being more protected than vaccinated people is stunning news being buried which is odd since some are mandating the showing of papers without considering this immunity

 

[fsg2]

[/QUOTE]

My own unscientific opinion
Seems like those who have lied about masks effectiveness ( making a little protection for those around the wearer an act of stupity ) look like something bad the person wearing mask is doing and claim the vax is unsafe has help spreed the virus and made the death count higher than is should have been and then claim the virus being spread like wildfire all accross our nation and the number of people that have been hospitalized and/or died is proof that the mask and shot don't work.

Nothing like being part of the problem happening , then making the solution into a problem

Yup.

Many of those trash bags on the board.

 

[zappaa]

Ugh. Another reason why we can’t go back to normal. No one wants to be responsible adults. Let’s have some super spreader events for the players. There are many people who are immunocompromised and you would just have them all killed off to you don’t have to wear a mask. I have multiple family members that fall into that classification so I guess I actually give a damn.

Holy Mackerel.

 

[Knight Shift]

You are a treasure in these threads. Level headed and not politically biased either way

Follow the science is such a dirty term because science is never settled. THEY just want you to follow THEIR science without question

We needed to have public debates on covid..we sort of did with Trump but it turned into pissing matches because the MSM wanted to play gotcha with Trump

True believers are to be feared. Throwing words around like "science" and "truth" as coming from only one source are warning signs of creeping authoritarianism. Surely, some people will remember that phrase that was thrown around about the Orange man.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

That was where it took place. Numb3rs just being specific. Is this what you have been reduced to in this argument? That was quick.

C'mon.. that read like a qualification. It was not the reader's issue.. but the writer's.

And with all his changing positions, how am I to know he is not actually qualifying the taping of a mask to anyone's face?

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Science is not mocked. What is mocked are the self-righteous table-pounding twits who say they are science or their science is the correct science. In order to mock science, it must be properly defined. It certainly is not Fauci, who has actually said that he is science. It certainly is not what is pushed by the government, or for that matter, any one group of people with a unified point of view. Science is rarely settled.

What gets mocked is people proclaiming that their version or view of science is science, and dissenting views are not science and the stuff of conspiracy theorists or non-scientists. Merriam Webster defines science as "knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation."

So, taking that definition into account, any reasonable person should be comfortable with the notion that the "science" of Covid-19 is not "there" yet because there is not enough data around such topics as covid-induced immunity vs. vaccine-induced immunity, although there is very powerful evidence that covid-induced immunity may offer the same or better protection over vaccine-induced immunity, but that is not settled.

Governments worldwide, including the US, have become scarily authoritarian and dogmatic when the science is not settled.

In this regard, golly ain't those vaccines fantastic. Maybe the 10th booster will be the charm--and yeah, we know vaccines significantly reduce severe symptoms and death. But this is a real head scratcher. Science-on, everyone.

View embedded media

⭐💥⭐💥⭐💥⭐💥⭐💥⭐

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

True believers are to be feared. Throwing words around like "science" and "truth" as coming from only one source are warning signs of creeping authoritarianism. Surely, some people will remember that phrase that was thrown around about the Orange man.

It really is amazing how the liberals have become so nazi-like. I thought the brown-shirt tactics of the Antifa who supposedly were acting on behalf of BLM was enough of a comparison point.. but I'll be damned if they have not promoted totalitarian controls over and over.

MORE FREEDOMS is always the right choice.

 

[bac2therac]

Thats the thing that gets me..the norm are freedom..the norms are free speech..the norms are no masks..the norms are make your risk assessment...the norms are making sure our children are educated not only in history but emotional and how to communicate

Some just willing to continue throw all that away without even thinking of our ramifications

What have we done to children age 4-8 the past few years. What have we done to teenagers..why are we restricting college students

What type of fallout will we face in a few years.

We know exactly who is at risk for Covid. Two years into this, policy should focus entirely on how to protect these people

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

You mean early in the pandemic? I held the exact same opinions then as I do now. The same level of skepticism about everybody's favorite highly speculative theories.

So I'm not sure what you mean by "this". I wasn't downplaying the dangerousness of COVID then and I'm not now. I've been consistent with my moderate positions on COVID from the start, I think.

If we were discussing this on a CE forum, I'd have more to say about how it's being handled by our leadership (which wasn't good enough then and still isn't good enough now, IMO). But I avoid politics outside such forums, and I was getting sick of those conversations back in 2018 or so, had stopped participating as ton until the period leading just prior to the election (where I temporarily hosted a CE forum when the one here shut down), and then stopped again a few months after the election when this one reopened (thankfully).

And I largely only participated just to troll trolls and generally make fun of the politically obsessed, which was great and addictive fun for awhile (it's impossible to lose on the internet when you don't care about the subject matter). But eventually it got old (back in 2018 or so).

^^^Not how I remember the CE dayz of Mildone....who are you and what have you done with Mildy?

If the impeached criminal, Trump the Clueless, had listened to his own medical and scientific experts, along with many others, instead of playing politics with people’s lives, COVID-19 would’ve been far less economically impactful. Many lives would have been saved. Many jobs would’ve been saved.

Instead, Trump’s criminally negligent political self-interest has effectively cost many good American citizens their lives, and cost many more their jobs. And cost the entire nation decades of paying down the immense national debt.

Now Trump and his cult are trying desperately to blame China, who took steps to protect themselves at the expense of the rest of the world. Which, ironically, is at least partially what we would’ve, and have, done. And even more ironically, it’s what idiotic childish Trumpers are always whining we should do even more - look out for number one. To watch them whine about it when another country does it is priceless.

 

[SkilletHead2]

C'mon.. that read like a qualification. It was not the reader's issue.. but the writer's.

And with all his changing positions, how am I to know he is not actually qualifying the taping of a mask to anyone's face?

It is a qualifier. He's saying that what happened in that school was wrong. To infer that he meant that it would be OK in a different school is bizarre.

I don't see any changing positions with Numb3rs. I see a guy who is following the data and the science where it leads. And somebody who isn't afraid of ambiguity where it exists. He's told it straight on COVID for over two years now. He is an excellent source of up-to-date, honest information.

 

[mildone]

Everything about this is right except the last sentence.

I was momentarily frustrated.






I got better. 😀

 

[RU848789]

I am less confident that's for sure. But at the same time, I struggle with the fact that Covid-19 broke out in Wuhan, where just by chance there happens to be a major lab that was, you guessed it, conducting virology research. Doesn't that raise some doubts in you? There is so much disinformation out there, it is hard to know what is true and it seems scientists have become more and more politically influenced than has been the historical norm. There was a sham investigation at the outset and any suggestion that it was a lab leak was taboo.

"An ongoing controversy over what constitutes virology research that is too dangerous to conduct—and whether the U.S government funded studies in China that violated a policy barring funding for such risky research—has taken a new turn. While denying once again it had helped create the virus that sparked the COVID-19 pandemic, the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) revealed in a letter sent yesterday to Republicans in Congress that experiments it funded through a U.S.-based nonprofit in 2018 and 2019 at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) in China had the “unexpected result” of creating a coronavirus that was more infectious in mice."

https://www.science.org/content/art...ment-wuhan-created-bat-virus-made-mice-sicker

Critics of NIH who claim the agency has lied about the work it funded at WIV pounced on the letter. Rutgers University, Piscataway, microbiologist Richard Ebright, a prominent critic of GOF research, commented in a tweet: “NIH corrects untruthful assertions by NIH Director [Francis] Collins and NIAID [National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases] Director [Anthony] Fauci that NIH had not funded gain-of-function research in Wuhan.”

Fair answer. I've never denied that the "lab leak of the original coronavirus" theory was possible, wherein through sloppiness some researcher working with the actual SARS-CoV-2 virus (assuming they had it at Wuhan, which there is zero proof of) got infected and became patient zero. However, it would've been an incredible breach of security to not have documented work with such a virus, which is why I simply don't think it was going on (they wouldn't have had reasons to hide the work, since they didn't hide the work on the other bat CVs they had been working on).

However, I've always had a huge issue with people thinking GoF research could have actually produced SARS-CoV2 from some precursor virus or that somehow de novo chimeric approaches could have produced a CV2. I do think GoF research is an area of concern and should be very carefully controlled, but even if the Wuhan Lab had been conducting GoF research on the coronaviruses they had (which there's no evidence of), the likelihood of stumbling upon CV2 is infinitesimal, as per the excerpt from the Science paper below, which quotes the Cell paper that contains the details. And using chimeric appoaches to attempt to build CV2 from scratch given the nearly infinite number of nucleotide combinations for an RNA virus would be absurd. None of this means I'm completely comfortable with GoF research efforts - just that it's extremely unlikely to have produced CV2.

Still, many scientists contend that SARS-CoV-2 can’t be a lab concoction because no known virus is close enough to have served as its starting material. Some have countered that RaTG13, the virus found in the Mojiang mine, could have been that backbone. That makes no sense, asserts a “critical review” by Garry, Worobey, and 19 other scientists that Cell published online on 19 August. More than 1100 nucleotides, the building blocks of RNA, separate the genomes of the two viruses, and the differences are scattered in a way that doesn’t suggest deliberate engineering.

“Nobody has the sort of insight into viral pathogenesis to design something as really devious as SARS-CoV-2,” Garry says. Three other bat viruses more similar to SARS-CoV-2 than RaTG13 in some key genomic regions are also unlikely to have been used as a template for the pandemic virus, according to the paper.

Having said all that, it pisses me off to no end how obfuscating and unhelpful the Chinese government has been throughout this pandemic (as opposed to Chinese scientists, who did share a ton of helpful CV2 info, especially in the early days) and I really want to know the origin to help reduce the risk of the next pandemic. Presumably it's a wet market like previous CVs, but it would be nice to know a lot more about the early days in China, and I think these wet markets need to be outlawed. Or if it was someone infected from one of the outlying provinces near the bats, that would be good to know - and countries like China need to have a better fever/sickness monitoring system in place to detect these things earlier. I doubt something as transmissible as the original strain of CV2 could've been contained once it hit a city like Wuhan, but if there had been some small outbreak in rural Yunnan, for example, maybe it could be contained.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Ben Carson isnt leading our covid response

Nice whataboutism

I didn't bring a totally irrelevant painting in a guy's home office into the thread, bac. You did. I merely pointed out that people whom you admire also have such paintings in their home office. Sauce for the goose. And btw, Joan Baez painted that portrait of Fauci and gave it to him to thank him for the great work he's done. No wonder he has it up in his office. Lovely tribute to a great man.

 

[bac2therac]

People were banned from social media and called conspiracy theorists for suggesting this

 

[bac2therac]

I didn't bring a totally irrelevant painting in a guy's home office into the thread, bac. You did. I merely pointed out that people whom you admire also have such paintings in their home office. Sauce for the goose. And btw, Joan Baez painted that portrait of Fauci and gave it to him to thank him for the great work he's done. No wonder he has it up in his office. Lovely tribute to a great man.

 

[mildone]

^^^Not how I remember the CE dayz of Mildone....who are you and what have you done with Mildy?

My joy on the CE board was mocking the mockers and trolling the trolls.

If you paid close attention though, I would just as happily have a serious and moderate exchange of views with those few folks on the CE board who were willing to do so. But most weren't willing to have such conversations and preferred to demonize, mock, troll and spew ideological nonsense. I couldn't spew ideological nonsense because I think ALL ideological is nonsense. But I could mock, troll, taunt and tease and for a long while enjoyed doing that.

But it got boring and repetitive after a while and, having no particular ideological dog in the hunt to keep me interested, I found other stuff to do and gradually stopped visiting that forum very much before it eventually got shut down for a bit. It was a den of deep psychosis (me included) before it shut down, and the one I opened in the interim was the same. And I'm sure the reopened one is the same.

Maybe one day I'll get interested in adding my psychosis back to the fray. But not this day. 😀

 

[SkilletHead2]

My original post was asking why would we do potentially dangerous research with our supposed enemy? What don't you understand. Should we be doing this gain of function research with Iran and Russia too? Why would you share research like this with your enemy?

Oh, yeah. Anthony I AM SCIENCE Fauci, seems to think pretty damn highly of himself.

Fauci said, "I represent science," not "I am science." And of course, he does represent science.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

My joy on the CE board was mocking the mockers and trolling the trolls.

If you paid close attention though, I would just as happily have a serious and moderate exchange of views with those few folks on the CE board who were willing to do so. But most weren't willing to have such conversations and preferred to demonize, mock, troll and spew ideological nonsense. I couldn't spew ideological nonsense because I think ALL ideological is nonsense. But I could mock, troll, taunt and tease and for a long while enjoyed doing that.

But it got boring and repetitive after a while and, having no particular ideological dog in the hunt to keep me interested, I found other stuff to do and gradually stopped visiting that forum very much before it eventually got shut down for a bit. It was a den of deep psychosis (me included) before it shut down, and the one I opened in the interim was the same. And I'm sure the reopened one is the same.

Maybe one day I'll get interested in adding my psychosis back to the fray. But not this day. 😀

so that's your story and you're sticking with it lol

 

[RU848789]

Not busting your stones, but didn't you have a whole thread a year ago (maybe less) about the Covid endgame? This is more difficult than predicting the weather. Sure hope our dopey CDC director does not continue to follow the lead of Israel. Golly, it took her long enough to catch on about N95 masks, and even then, she still muddles the message and discourages wearing of N95s.

No problem, yes I had one once it became obvious how fantastic the COVID vaccines were at preventing infection and nearly eliminating hospitalizations and deaths, but of course, I qualified it with the comment that the endgame required full vaccination and no new variants that were much worse than the original strain. We failed on full vaccination, which led to several hundred thousand unnecessary deaths (and millions of unnecessary hospitalizations) in the US alone, and the new variants evolved, so the endemic CV2 we were headed for last summer, when we had very low case levels got seriously delayed by delta and now omicron.

Delta was 2-3X more transmissible than the original strain and omicrons was 2-3X more transmissible than delta, plus it is much better at evading previous immunity, especially for those previously infected but not vaccinated (only the boosted seem to have strong protection still, against infection) and that delayed the endgame by 9+ months. I think we're almost there now, but it would be foolish and ignorant to not understand that that depends on not having an even worse variant evolving, which nobody can predict - the only thing many experts say is that in order for any new variant to become dominant it has to be even more transmissible than omicron, which seems unlikely given it's almost as infectious as measles. Crossing fingers.

 

[SkilletHead2]

View embedded media

Pretty much the quality of your typical response.

 

[bac2therac]

Pretty much the quality of your typical response.

Sauce for the goose

An appropriate response to you slobbering over a lovely man

 

[RU_DIO]

Fauci said, "I represent science," not "I am science." And of course, he does represent science.

Yes. And only his science is right. Even when other scientists and other experts in the field question his science. And he gets help from his friends in Big Tech and the media by silencing their point of view. I don't believe this is the way things are supposed to work.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

It is a qualifier. He's saying that what happened in that school was wrong. To infer that he meant that it would be OK in a different school is bizarre.

I don't see any changing positions with Numb3rs. I see a guy who is following the data and the science where it leads. And somebody who isn't afraid of ambiguity where it exists. He's told it straight on COVID for over two years now. He is an excellent source of up-to-date, honest information.

He used THAT twice! Once was sufficient.

THAT.. (taping a kids mask) was enough.

The second THAT qualified the first THAT.. (in THAT school)

I merely pointed out that the first THAT did not require any qualification.

So... why jump all over me for doing so?

What's THAT about?

As for where he was on CoVId.. wow.. he changed every time Fauci changed... sure.. following the "science"... while downplaying and even mocking every scientific opinion that disagreed with Fauci's establishment line. Followed the dogma from Fauci... using the word "science" to justify anything without offering proof. That's not science.

 

[Rhuarc]

So, about that Nebraska game thing....FOCUS people.

 

[MADHAT1]

True believers are to be feared. Throwing words around like "science" and "truth" as coming from only one source are warning signs of creeping authoritarianism. Surely, some people will remember that phrase that was thrown around about the Orange man.

yes the alternative to truth must be believed, as the orange man's minions told everyone.
Facts are the type of information that must be oppose, especially if they go against the orange man's agenda.
Remember the orange man let everyone know that the virus would do no harm, even after he was told by "scientists" that it would.

 

[RU_DIO]

yes the alternative to truth must be believed, as the orange man's minions told everyone.
Facts are the type of information that must be oppose, especially if they go against the orange man's agenda.
Remember the orange man let everyone know that the virus would do no harm, even after he was told by "scientists" that it would.

Yes and remember the people who are now in power said they wouldn't trust the vaccine.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Sauce for the goose

An appropriate response to you slobbering over a lovely man

And it continues. If you are always going to get so upset and resort to such juvenile behavior when you are proven wrong, why not stop participating in such threads?

 

[bac2therac]

And it continues. If you are always going to get so upset and resort to such juvenile behavior when you are proven wrong, why not stop participating in such threads?

Who was proven wrong?

I posted a ton of posts here and you chose to respond to a post mocking your beloved Fauci..thats on you

 

[MADHAT1]

Yes and remember the people who are now in power said they wouldn't trust the vaccine.

You only put part of the story in, maybe the alternative version you implied went against what was really said and doesn't fit your agenda
,Joseph R. Biden Jr. on Wednesday assailed President Trump for playing politics with a potential coronavirus vaccine, saying he did not trust Mr. Trump to determine when a vaccine was ready for Americans.
“Let me be clear: I trust vaccines,” Mr. Biden said. “I trust scientists. But I don’t trust Donald Trump, and at this moment, the American people can’t either.”

 

[SkilletHead2]

He used THAT twice! Once was sufficient.

THAT.. (taping a kids mask) was enough.

The second THAT qualified the first THAT.. (in THAT school)

I merely pointed out that the first THAT did not require any qualification.

So... why jump all over me for doing so?

What's THAT about?

As for where he was on CoVId.. wow.. he changed every time Fauci changed... sure.. following the "science"... while downplaying and even mocking every scientific opinion that disagreed with Fauci's establishment line. Followed the dogma from Fauci... using the word "science" to justify anything without offering proof. That's not science.

He said, "That was unacceptable in that school...." Perfectly comprehensible phrase. You're the one that attacked it as being inappropriate -- no one else. And no, the second that didn't qualify the first that. The second that qualified school. The first "that" referred to the event and the second "that" referred to which school, specifically.

As to COVID, he changed when the science and the facts on the ground changed. That is what scientists do. As he has said, and I agree, the only time he substantially disagreed with Fauci was on the initial recommendation against masks. Still don't really understand why he said that as even then, it was clear that they did no harm.

Other than that, Fauci's statements are well-supported by the science. Maybe there's something that isn't, but surely not much. You want statements that stand in direct contradiction to science, you'll have to look at The Other Guy. He is a well-spring of them.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Remember the orange man let everyone know that the virus would do no harm, even after he was told by "scientists" that it would.

Everything Trump said was told to him by "experts".

"One day the virus would vanish".. that's what happened with Sars (a coronavirus) .. right? Hell.. Fauci downplayed the virus at first and Fauci was advising Trump. For all I know that was Fauci's line that came out of "the orange man's" mouth.

Trump's problem, one of many, was that he is a braggart, a blowhard.. who loves to pretend he knows everything and is on top of everything... Obama was the same way but a helluva lot better at it. Trump repeatedly tried to restate complicated issues in simple terms and he blew it fairly often. But that doesn't mean he made bad decisions behind the scenes. I'd take a guy that has a personality flaw like that but makes the right decisions every time over what we have now.

Trump created the Coronavirus response team on 1/29/2020.. a month later Fauci said this on the Today Show:

​

"There's no need to change anything that you're doing on a day by day basis. Right now the risk is still low, but this could change. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread."​

​

And what would become the "Faucists" agreed, of course, because that meant being able to say Trump was crazy shutting down travel for China. And the "Faucists" would say that SCIENCE agreed with Fauci then and that would change.

They say Fauci follows the science.. but it is more like "the science" follows Fauci.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Yes. And only his science is right. Even when other scientists and other experts in the field question his science. And he gets help from his friends in Big Tech and the media by silencing their point of view. I don't believe this is the way things are supposed to work.

You can always find someone in a field who will go against the consensus, and that is fine. But when hundreds of thousands, even millions, of lives are at stake, and time is of the essence, it's necessary to go with the consensus in the field -- in this case an overwhelming consensus. And other than masks, we see Fauci being right time and again. And bleach, strong lights, ivermectin, "It will go away in the spring" being wrong.

 

[zappaa]

You only put part of the story in, maybe the alternative version you implied went against what was really said and doesn't fit your agenda
,Joseph R. Biden Jr. on Wednesday assailed President Trump for playing politics with a potential coronavirus vaccine, saying he did not trust Mr. Trump to determine when a vaccine was ready for Americans.
“Let me be clear: I trust vaccines,” Mr. Biden said. “I trust scientists. But I don’t trust Donald Trump, and at this moment, the American people can’t either.”

I didn’t know ex President Trump had the authority to decide when a vaccine was ready for use.
Everyone knows he didn’t, it was a ridiculous political talking point Hat.
The quote should have been shot down immediately, but the left was allowed to use it continuously

 

[fsg2]

Thats the thing that gets me..the norm are freedom..the norms are free speech..the norms are no masks..the norms are make your risk assessment...the norms are making sure our children are educated not only in history but emotional and how to communicate

Some just willing to continue throw all that away without even thinking of our ramifications

What have we done to children age 4-8 the past few years. What have we done to teenagers..why are we restricting college students

What type of fallout will we face in a few years.

We know exactly who is at risk for Covid. Two years into this, policy should focus entirely on how to protect these people

Is the norm a global pandemic?

Get lost with your crocodile tears.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Everything Trump said was told to him by "experts".

"One day the virus would vanish".. that's what happened with Sars (a coronavirus) .. right? Hell.. Fauci downplayed the virus at first and Fauci was advising Trump. For all I know that was Fauci's line that came out of "the orange man's" mouth.

Trump's problem, one of many, was that he is a braggart, a blowhard.. who loves to pretend he knows everything and is on top of everything... Obama was the same way but a helluva lot better at it. Trump repeatedly tried to restate complicated issues in simple terms and he blew it fairly often. But that doesn't mean he made bad decisions behind the scenes. I'd take a guy that has a personality flaw like that but makes the right decisions every time over what we have now.

100%. It's time to revisit the actual facts about Fauci's role in the early days of covid, not the revisionist spin so many hear from MSM.

Well, if Trump lied, so did Anthony S. Fauci.

• On Jan. 21, Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in an interview that “this is not a major threat for the people of the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”
• On Jan. 26 when he was asked whether Americans should be scared, Fauci replied, “I don’t think so. The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something that we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously.”
• On Jan. 31 (the day Trump announced banning travel from China, saving countless lives), Fauci said, “We still have a low risk to the American public, but we want to keep it at a low risk.”
• On Feb. 3, Fauci predicted that because of the travel restrictions Trump had put in place, “I think you are going to see a dampening down” of US cases.
• On Feb. 17, Fauci told USA Today that the danger to Americans was “just minuscule” and that people should be more worried about the “real and present danger” of seasonal flu. He further warned against “outlandish extrapolations of fear” and advised that “now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask.”
• On Feb. 28, Fauci finally acknowledged, “It could be really, really bad,” but added, “I don’t think it’s gonna be, because I think we’d be able to do the kind of mitigation. It could be mild.”
• On Feb. 29 he said, “Right now, at this moment, there is no need to change anything that you’re doing on a day-by-day basis. Right now the risk is still low, but this could change. … I mean, this could be a major outbreak. I hope not. Or it could be something that’s reasonably well controlled. At the end of the day, this will ultimately go down.”
• On March 9 he said, “If you are a healthy young person, there is no reason if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship. But … an elderly person who has an underlying condition, I would recommend strongly that they do not go on a cruise ship.”
• As late as March 10, Fauci was still adamant that “as a nation, the risk is relatively low” but admitted that “there are parts of the country right now that are having community spread in which the risk there is clearly a bit more than that.” He added that “we would like the country to realize that as a nation, we can’t be doing the kinds of things we were doing a few months ago. That it doesn’t matter if you’re in a state that has no cases or one case.”
• Three days later, on March 13, Trump declared a national emergency.
• And on March 16 the president urged all Americans to avoid restaurants, bars, discretionary travel and groups of more than 10 people, while states began issuing orders to shelter in place.

What this shows is that until mid-March, no one knew we were facing a once-in-a-generation pathogen. The real question is: Why did Fauci and all of the government’s smartest medical minds take so long to recognize the danger and advise the president to take action? The answer is because they expected this outbreak to be like the SARS, avian flu, swine flu, Middle East respiratory syndrome, Zika and Ebola outbreaks before it — a serious public health crisis, but one they could handle. They were wrong. When they finally realized they were wrong, and advised the president to implement mitigation measures, he did so — shutting down a booming economy to protect public health.

The suggestion that Trump knew how dangerous the virus was, but intentionally misled Americans and failed to take action, is demonstrably wrong. What is “beyond despicable” is for Biden to suggest that he did.
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/if-trump-lied-so-did-fauci/

 

[zappaa]

Is the norm a global pandemic?

Get lost with your crocodile tears.

Don’t understand why you continually shit on people who care about the ramifications of Covid restrictions and protocols on children

 

[mildone]

Science is not mocked. What is mocked are the self-righteous table-pounding twits who say they are science or their science is the correct science. In order to mock science, it must be properly defined. It certainly is not Fauci, who has actually said that he is science. It certainly is not what is pushed by the government, or for that matter, any one group of people with a unified point of view. Science is rarely settled.

What gets mocked is people proclaiming that their version or view of science is science, and dissenting views are not science and the stuff of conspiracy theorists or non-scientists. Merriam Webster defines science as "knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation."

So, taking that definition into account, any reasonable person should be comfortable with the notion that the "science" of Covid-19 is not "there" yet because there is not enough data around such topics as covid-induced immunity vs. vaccine-induced immunity, although there is very powerful evidence that covid-induced immunity may offer the same or better protection over vaccine-induced immunity, but that is not settled.

Governments worldwide, including the US, have become scarily authoritarian and dogmatic when the science is not settled.

In this regard, golly ain't those vaccines fantastic. Maybe the 10th booster will be the charm--and yeah, we know vaccines significantly reduce severe symptoms and death. But this is a real head scratcher. Science-on, everyone.

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I feel like you've posted a massive straw-man there.

Because I don't think anybody on this forum, nor anything I've read from CDC or WHO or on any respected medical organization's website, claims that science is perfect, or that vaccines would be perfect one-time lifetime cures for COVID-19 and it evolving variants.

And, despite the inherent imperfections with science (as with all human endeavors), what do we have that is better than the preponderance of continually growing scientific research? What source of facts is there for us to fall back upon in the absence of science? Shall we dispense with science and instead rely on voodoo and consult with fortune tellers?

There are no multiple versions of science. Science is what it is and nothing more. Science is a method, it is not a result. People who say, look, a scientist was wrong so science is invalid and never to be trusted, are grossly misunderstanding and misstating what science is.

I know of no better method available to us, no methodology as deeply rooted in rigorous verification and repudiation of invalid facts, as science.

Sure, scientific conclusions are proven wrong all the time.

By science.

If anybody here has a better, less imperfect, approach than science for working towards the truth of thing in our universe, then by all means, let's hear it.

 

[mildone]

True believers are to be feared. Throwing words around like "science" and "truth" as coming from only one source are warning signs of creeping authoritarianism. Surely, some people will remember that phrase that was thrown around about the Orange man.

Who here has said there is only one source of science or truth? I'm haven't seen anybody do that.

 

[fsg2]

Don’t understand why you continually shit on people who care about the ramifications of Covid restrictions and protocols on children

I don't believe for a second bac gives a crap about kids. Also, he has none, so I'm not interested in hearing his opinions over and over.

I also find the idea of masks and vaccines being worse for kids than Covid ludicrous and laughable.

Protocols aren't what are keeping kids out of school right now.

 

[zappaa]

Did we not just read people who had the virus have a stronger immunity to Covid than the vaccinated