What a bumass program, I hope they regress back to the 0-30 years.
Northwestern- Fitzgerald Suspended, Now Fired Due to Hazing
- Thread starter Knight Shift
- Start date
This is why every coach in America (college and NFL) should be worried. As folks have said in this thread, hazing (to some degree) happens on every team. One of the articles above said even the rookie/freshman talent show is considered hazing by the younger generation. Head coaches need to get a huge contract and have a zero hazing policy going forward. It's hard to control 100+ college kids so the policy has to be "you haze, you are gone". Doesn't stop the mob from taking out the head coach anyway, so get paid and hope the kids listen.
This 100%. It’s going to be a huge problem for NW if they hope for the “FIRE for CAUSE” to hold through Fitz’ lawsuits. That’s why it’s likely to settle for close to his buy out IMO.
being a legend for the wrong reasons is not really a good thing...
My conclusion is that I would not want to share a foxhole with that president. He seems incompetent. All of his actions appear to be designed to accommodate whoever he spoke with most recently…
This is where I have a problem with some statements. When you say something like this, it is making it sound like it is a "gay" problem and not a "bullying" problem. I don't know a single gay person who would find this hazing normal for anyone.
This is bullying and sexual assault. It isn't gay. It is more about one person trying to humiliate another. I would bet if they could get away with it- if a girl joined the men's team, thy would do the same thing. It is sick- but saying it is gay, is saying that being gay is sick.
Right? Totally agree with you.
I don't know Fitzgerald, don't care about him in the slightest. I don't care about Northwestern or it's sports programs. My concerns aren't about them.
My concern is that this entire situation reeks of being yet another example of uninformed mob mentality, fed by what appear to be sensationalized media reports, driving decision-making. This has been a problem for a long time, but it seems to be growing worse every year.
The presumption of innocence has all but evaporated. The rule of law, with it's critically important rules of evidence that ensure fairness and objectivity, is entirely absent. More and more, people in charge and making decisions with significant impacts on people's lives seem to be making those decisions based on what's trending on social media where the accused are often instantly and irrevocably guilty, even after having been proven innocent.
For all I know, Fitz was in the locker room cheering on all the gonad-juggling hazing activities or whatever the accusations say was happening. But also for all I know, nothing remotely like the worst of the allegations occurred. The only thing I could say for sure, at this point given what I've seen in the media (which is whatever has been posted to this thread), is that there are two very different stories being told and I have no way to determine what actually happened.
I actually want this to wind up in a courtroom just to see a more reasoned, more measured presentation and outcome. And I really wish people would rediscover some semblance of healthy skepticism for everything being pushed at us 24/7 by all forms of media with all types of biases or leans.
My proposition: The more popular and accepted an idea or trend of thought becomes, the greater the degree of skepticism with which it should be viewed by everyone.
100% agree. Good post.
While I'm still not at all convinced that what's being reported actually happened as reported, if it did happen as "advertised", then it was not about sexual choice at all, it was criminal behavior.
In terms of fire for cause - sure. It’s public knowledge that the results of the investigation did not uncover proof that Fitz knew about what was going on. Absent that, I don’t see how he was “fired”. The could have let him go (for poor oversight) but doing so without payout doesn’t add up to what was reported. It’s not like with Mike Rice where his actions were caught on video.
Your point may or may not hold in terms of the actual hazing because the details haven’t been made public. It sounds like there is in fact proof that a good amount of the hazing happened. The extent of exaggeration (if any) is what we don’t know.
Telling the board the Carroo arrest was bad and would be exonerated is a bad thing ? Wow, tough crowd
My entire point is that what's "public knowledge" right now is not necessarily close to the truth. Maybe what happened is very different. Maybe not.
There are divergent statements being made by different people involved. And we weren't privy to the inner workings of the investigation. So how could any of us possibly consider ourselves well-informed about it? We know what's been reported but we don't know (a) the veracity of the reports and statements or (b) what hasn't been reported, what we don't know. And between (a) and (b), we don't really know much at all.
Just because stuff is being reported, just because purported snippets of text from investigation have been posted on social media, does not mean we are well-informed. We don't know the motivations or agendas of the persons making statements, or the persons releasing partial information to various media outlets. Without understanding those things, how could we possibly trust any of it to be factually accurate and complete?
I think it's likely there's a ton of ass-covering by the school and some coaches and players, no pun intended, along with a lot of butthurt former players, again no pun intended. And perhaps there are players looking for a lawsuit/payday. All those conflicting motivations/agendas color people's statements.
We may never know. Given the conflicting reports, unless this all winds up in court at some point for some reason, we probably won't.
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You pick out one thing…priceless I don’t believe you are negative legendary because on that single post. Would love to see everyone that love your posts historically
Dude, c'mon, he's a legend in his own mind. Remember the warnings about intruding on someone's delusions, it could be dangerous.
Has the university released any information about what their investigation found to be proven incidents? It’s difficult to try and find legit info through the reporting right now. I’m not talking about what was claimed or reported during the investigation or to the school newspaper. What has actually been proven through the investigation?
Usually trainers hang out in the locker room while players are present to attend to muscle spasms and/or muscle pulls and ongoing training issues. Have the reports noted if any trainers were present? What did they witness? Anything?
Whatever happened to just putting some atomic balm in the jockstrap of the freshmen? Old school prank I guess.
Whatever happened to just putting some atomic balm in the jockstrap of the freshmen? Old school prank I guess.
100% it's about feeling powerful and humiliating others. Nothing at all to do with someone being gay.
Somebody posted that hazing is the strong preying on the weak. That's not the case. It is weak people preying on weaker people to feel empowered. Same as domestic abusers. There is a saying that strong men don't hit women. Pretty much same deal here.
If a video of him performing the special clap in practice that green lighted the "code red" as described by one of the accusers surfaces, Fitz has a big problem.
That said I agree all should wait for some proof in this case before condemning Fitz and staff.
My problem here has been with those stating that even if true, this shit happens all the time, grow a set and get over it. No big deal. If these things occurred as described it's a HUGE deal.
"IF" things occurred as described, the whole staff (present during the time in question) should be fired as well.
Fire the head coach but allow those beneath him, who probably knew this went on, to continue?? It's pretty messed up if an institution is willing to fire some but give others in the know, a free pass, just because the season is starting in seven weeks.
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Unless some of them did report it to Fitz and were told not to say anything. Or if the culture just made them afraid to say something.
My opinion- if these types of things happen, just like PSU- some, if not all, staff knew or suspected something. These locker rooms are not usually not watched by staff for hours at a time.
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Reminds me of McCormick when "they" came for Bob Mulcahy... Lawrence had his issues and got rid of Banon quickly and Barchi only grew a backbone when "they" came for his job.. Mike Rice and Tim Pernetti were fed to the Lions before Barchi decided to draw a line.
While I hate the way UNC has cheated, I gotta respect how their admin and lawyers fight for their programs.
As for Fitz.. I saw somewhere that it was said that he "called the code red" so-to-speak (I see this has been brought up above). Would signal during practice which rookie player deserved hazing. Of course, that could be BS.. but, if true.. that dude is poison. If untrue.. let's hire him as DC for a bargain price while NW pays most of his salary...
As for hazing, in-general... it is dead wrong. But this society has tolerated it for a long, long time. I think it all stems from WWII and maybe military boot bamps before that where what was being trained was for life and death situations. During WWII such training became so common that it would later influence many aspects of society.. fraternities, coaching ranks, sports teams, etc etc. The vets trained future generations as they were trained in boot camp. Hazing was tolerated and encouraged.
In another aspect of this we actually tolerate prison rape like being raped in prison is part of your sentence for whatever crime you committed. I think that is related in a sick way.
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Reeks of some former players seeking a payday. Or at least some lawyers convincing some former players to seek a payday.
I still think it's more likely than not that Fitzgerald is the one who will come away from all this with a huge payday in the end. But we'll see.
What they were attributing this to was clapping, of all things. I just don't buy it, sounds a lot like how they attributed a sinister purpose to the okay sign a few years back.
There is a kid that says he didn’t see hazing but in the next sentence says - if I could go back, I would be a better teammate to those guys..,
Maybe he didn't see it himself but heard rumblings about it. Or, he should have communicated better and known more about them.
I don't see a problem with his statements at all.
Could just be covering his ass for complicity by playing Sgt. Shultz.
Usually, with locker room hazing- you have seen it, participated in it or it didn’t happen.
