OT: 11 shot in NYC
- Thread starter Rutgers NJ
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Looks like gang related, culture violence.
These were fist fights, brawls and an occasional single death tragedy back in my day.
These were fist fights, brawls and an occasional single death tragedy back in my day.
This is one of the things we always feared when our son's were of the age of clubbing and going out late at night.
In our day- it was fists and the biggest worry is if one of the other guy's friends jumped in and cold cocked you. Every once in a while- you may see a knife.
And starting in the 2000's- it became knifes and guns...Even on the street during daylight. A random person may just pull a gun for looking at them wrong.
And for our kids- who were 6ft5 and 6ft2 - we tried to tell them that being as big as they were- it was never going to be a fair fight.
gang related, nothing to see here. Im sure those involved will be arrested and immediately set free.
So I’ve been a gun owner since I was 18 and went shooting for the first time when I was 12. We own 5 firearms in our home. I’m a hunter, and active on all of my current licenses and safety training.
I will be the first to tell you that everything has changed in the last 10-15 years at least in terms of gun culture.
Growing up going to gun shows, the highlights were finding really cool old historic guns and the latest and greatest for Hunting rifles. MAYBE you would see 2-3 tables in the back of what we would refer to as ‘The Freaks’ who would show up with a full military arsenal of AR’s, Body Armor, full blown Bug out bags…. These days that’s 50% of what you see and the highlight of these shows. No one cares about historic or cool pieces, it’s become ‘what does the most damage’. Shoot the last few years I’ve seen the NRA manage to find a workaround for legal civilian flashbangs! It’s gotten insane!
This coming from a proud gun owner and supporter of the 2nd amendment. The gun culture in our country has become boarder line religious and the result is more mass casualties than anytime in history in what’s supposed to be the most advanced country on earth
I will be the first to tell you that everything has changed in the last 10-15 years at least in terms of gun culture.
Growing up going to gun shows, the highlights were finding really cool old historic guns and the latest and greatest for Hunting rifles. MAYBE you would see 2-3 tables in the back of what we would refer to as ‘The Freaks’ who would show up with a full military arsenal of AR’s, Body Armor, full blown Bug out bags…. These days that’s 50% of what you see and the highlight of these shows. No one cares about historic or cool pieces, it’s become ‘what does the most damage’. Shoot the last few years I’ve seen the NRA manage to find a workaround for legal civilian flashbangs! It’s gotten insane!
This coming from a proud gun owner and supporter of the 2nd amendment. The gun culture in our country has become boarder line religious and the result is more mass casualties than anytime in history in what’s supposed to be the most advanced country on earth
I had always been a gun owner myself. It's funny though, my Dad, being a WWII vet, never allowed guns in our house growing up but eventually allowed me a shotgun for deer hunting but it always had to have a trigger lock on it. After I moved out on my own, got a hunting rifle and a S&W 357. Never had a reason or even a thought of ever needing any of them for any sort of protection. Which is why I always found it weird that so many guys living in suburbs make the claim they need protection. Just sort of strange to me.
On the other hand- had guns pulled on me twice. In one case, the trigger was pulled and lucky to find out it jammed. That one actually happened in a suburban shopping plaza when I saw a guy push down a lady and snatch her purse. I took off after him, he turned and had a gun, found out by the cops that it had jammed on him as he tried to fire at me.
And I am glad that I did not have my 357 on me as I may have tried to stand up and shoot back at him and who knows what could have happened- the one thing I do know- there would have been nothing good that could have happened.
On the other hand- had guns pulled on me twice. In one case, the trigger was pulled and lucky to find out it jammed. That one actually happened in a suburban shopping plaza when I saw a guy push down a lady and snatch her purse. I took off after him, he turned and had a gun, found out by the cops that it had jammed on him as he tried to fire at me.
And I am glad that I did not have my 357 on me as I may have tried to stand up and shoot back at him and who knows what could have happened- the one thing I do know- there would have been nothing good that could have happened.
yup. The big injuries back then were getting knocked down and the potential to hit your head on the ground. I’ve seen some bad head injuries. Drunks and guys that knew how or enjoyed fighting were usually involved. The smaller or more timid people would avoid fighting unless they had no choice. Now people pull guns. It’s sad.
I’m admittedly not a gun enthusiast and confess my ignorance on all things relative to firearms.
I remember the hunters I played with from Pennsylvania and the south who grew up with guns we’re all extremely safety conscious and rarely if ever spoke of handguns.
The few times I went to a shooting range back in the day, I remember an overwhelming sense of safety and calmness.
Safety and calmness seems to have been replaced by a culture of rage and exessiveness
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The "right to carry" (concealed or open carry) is one thing. Using it, though? That comes with a whole bunch of concerns and liabilities.
BTW, a .357 mag is a devastating handgun round, and will very likely pass thru your target with residual lethality.
So many here standing on a soapbox to give their political soliloquy and purposely ignoring that this was GANG-RELATED.
And get this — the event itself was for a gang-related shooting victim!
We have a gang problem in this country. Celebrated and stoked in popular culture, but with no real end in sight.
These multiple victim shootings happen every week, but narrative-driven media won’t appropriately cover it unless it fits an agenda
Same as the truth that 700 human beings overdose and die on the streets of San Francisco last year — but we rarely ever hear about that mass casualty.
It’s not the guns. There’s a sickness in our society. Proven by men taking vehicles (ie not a gun) and ramming them into helpless crowds of people. Or the AP purposely saying a Tesla exploded outside a building, and conveniently omitting in the headline that it was strapped with explosives.
Never forget why we have the 2nd amendment — with 300M guns in our country — it has (and will) keep an enemy adversary from ever making landfall on US soil. Freedom isn’t free. And if you truly think we’re never at risk, then 1) have not been following developments in China & Russia and 2) ignored the recent ISIS terrorist attack
And get this — the event itself was for a gang-related shooting victim!
We have a gang problem in this country. Celebrated and stoked in popular culture, but with no real end in sight.
These multiple victim shootings happen every week, but narrative-driven media won’t appropriately cover it unless it fits an agenda
Same as the truth that 700 human beings overdose and die on the streets of San Francisco last year — but we rarely ever hear about that mass casualty.
It’s not the guns. There’s a sickness in our society. Proven by men taking vehicles (ie not a gun) and ramming them into helpless crowds of people. Or the AP purposely saying a Tesla exploded outside a building, and conveniently omitting in the headline that it was strapped with explosives.
Never forget why we have the 2nd amendment — with 300M guns in our country — it has (and will) keep an enemy adversary from ever making landfall on US soil. Freedom isn’t free. And if you truly think we’re never at risk, then 1) have not been following developments in China & Russia and 2) ignored the recent ISIS terrorist attack
Doesn’t NY have extremely strict gun laws?
most of my hunting buddies rarely spoke of handguns much either. I actually only got mine to take out with me when hunting. In upstate NY- it was legal to shot a deer in season with a handgun. I didn't have it for that reason but we bow hunted in Bear Country and I wanted a big ole handgun for that, plus, even when rifle or shotgun hunting deer- not always so easy to get the gun up and turned to the right if a deer snuck up from the right side.
So, for me- a .357 was perfect if I ever needing a gun for big animals like that.
And a small part of me did also say to myself- "if by chance I ever needed to point it at someone- I want something that makes them think twice" - and a model 686 6 inch barrel .357 is not a gun you would ever want to see pointing your direction. lol
I’m glad to see a fellow gun owner who gets it. An alarming amount of gun owners I know in that instance would’ve responded with ‘wish you woulda had the gun so you coulda shot him’.
Unfortunately our country made that choice at Sandy Hook.
As I said I’m a proud gun owner and you are correct that anyone who respects firearms understands just how serious they are. I’ve always hated the argument, “guns don’t kill people, people do”. Meanwhile put an 80 year old man with a gun up against a 25 year old linebacker and the 25 year old will get dropped before he makes a move.
Now you have complete morons with no respect, knowledge or training of guns going out buying AR’s. That’s like handing the keys to a C8 corvette to a 15 year old who just got their learners permit. The image I’ll never forget and the moment I knew we were screwed as responsible gun enthusiasts was the moment I watched ken mcklosky, a lawyer, in a pink polo waving around his AR with his wife waving a handgun she clearly has never handled before in her life with how she was pointing it in a gated community over a protest.
Did they end up catching the guy that you chased? That's some scary $hit right there.
The exploits of former legendary Rutgers Quarterback Phil Nelson come to mind.
There is a saying that a gun will get you in more trouble then it will get you out of, & once you use it you find out.
In my experience, calmness, friendliness, and safety still pervades every gun range I visit, across people of all kinds and economic levels, etc. So I don't really think that's been replaced.
However, independently of responsible gun ownership, there is indeed a rapidly expanding culture of rage and extremism in this country. That culture appears driven by media (all of it everywhere) and politics (again, all of it), and forces external to our nation using social media to successfully manipulating us into being even more angry and extreme.
I say that and everybody immediately points their finger at other people as the problem, instead of looking at themselves. Which is problematic because we can't "fix" other people, we can only fix ourselves.
Depends on the state in which you use it. And the situation.
NJ, for instance, is a state where you want to have no other choice (facing an imminent and inescapable deadly threat) before using a firearm or you're likely to wind up either in lots of trouble or broke from paying lawyers to keep you out that trouble. Even in your own home, you'll want to be able to demonstrate that you tried to evade harm (hide or run away) before firing your weapon or you could wind up with a lot of legal fees.
Certain other states, not so much. Although, to your point, in constitutional carry states, you have to worry more about pulling out a weapon in public (for whatever reason) and having some other person totally misinterpret your intent who pulls out their weapon and shoots you. People are armed but not regularly trained in situational awareness.
the goal of any gunowner should always be to NEVER fire their weapon unless in a controlled environment or hunting. That’s it. People with the idea that ‘we need guns to protect ourselves’ have been given the wrong idea their entire lives.
Spoken as a gun enthusiast
Yes, and they regulate and restrict those trying to obtain firearms through proper channels. Thugs like these obtain them illegally and don't give two craps about the law, responsible firearm use and/or the consequences of possessing them.
So do you think would more laws that those who abide by the law adhere to have stopped these thugs from getting guns?
It should be noted that the McCloskey's misdemeanor convictions were expunged and that those "protestors" breached private property. With the mass destruction we saw from other similar o called protestors, they were right to warn those potential assailants that they had firearms.
As a gun owner, I didn't see anything unusual with how they were handling the firearms. Seemed pretty obvious they had done so a number of times before and were comfortable.
CCW classes typically incorporate the legal aspects as part of the training, with an emphasis on that particular state's laws, especially the "Castle Doctrine." "I was in fear for my life" is the language instructors suggest repeating to LEOs, if you ever have to use the weapon. That and shut up, until legal counsel is present.
They did and that is how they knew he tried to fire and it jammed
I doubt it. When there's a will to obtain weapons, they will find a way to obtain them. And if they aren't concerned about the repercussions, they will continue to use illegal firearms in theses types of reckless manners.
My C&C was in NY but it excluded all of the NYC Burroughs.
This is why I am so glad I was not carrying at the time...even if the dude's gun didn't jam and he missed me, if I fire back - I better be sure he is facing me when I do. If he had turned and starting running again and I shoot him, I am in jail for a long F-ing time. Or, more likely, miss him and a chance it hits someone else.
For anyone that has never fired handguns- the chances of hitting a moving target, more than 5-10 ft away in a high stress situation is almost 0% if you are not trained to do so.
...where the criminals who dont give a rat's ass would then have more leverage. Go figure.
This is a very odd post. How can someone who has had guns pulled on him twice in the suburbs find it strange that people living in the suburbs would want guns for protection?
Ok so I’m going to very politely request that you retake your firearm safety class and get a refresh on the subject if you did not see anything wrong about how the mckloskey’s, particularly the wife, was handling those guns.
That woman had that pistol pointed up while looking in the complete opposite direction, waving it even. She was RECKLESS in the way she handled that gun. The Guy had the gun strapped to his chest pointed up while also looking in opposite directions. Please, tell me the gun safety class you attended that stated it was EVER ok to hold a gun up with your eyes away from where it’s pointed?
I’m speaking as someone who is trying to change the narrative in a small way around guns and loves to go shooting. Skeet shooting is a favorite hobby of mine, I have a Beretta A400 XCEL along with 1 other skeet rifle, my hunting rifle which is a TIKKA T3X, for fun I have a 1989 (my birth year) Colt SAA which you can’t even find anymore and my crowing jewell, the Allen and Wheelock model 1845 (the 6 shot pepperbox for those familiar) that was found and is still functional on the Antietam battlefield (which I have the paperwork to confirm). I love guns, I love the history and engineering behind them, I love the comradely that the Responsible community represents. It’s when people are reckless with their firearms that those of us who understand and practice extreme safety around firearms are still made to look bad.
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I don't own a firearm but I always thought that the first cartridge should be a blank, that most home intruders would run hearing it and not engaging in a firefight. But you are right, in NJ one would get in big trouble defending their life with a firearm in modern times.
You’re missing the entire point of owning a gun for safety reasons.
They liked saved a lot of property damage and even lives
that's my first thought, though could be wrong but gang violence to to commonplace not to have it my first thought when teenagers are targeted. Could have been one that was the target or more, when gangs violence occurs they don't hold back because innocent people are around.
would love to know why Ragu finds this funny. Weird take
The thinking is that if you are carrying a gun you will involve yourself in situations that you would not normally get involved in if you did not have a gun with you & then you may have to use the gun to get out of the situation that you got yourself into.
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