OT: Belmar beach badge checkers don’t fool around

[Knight Shift]

Forgot about the 1992 Nor'easter, that in some respects looked as bad as Sandy in 2011. Was living near Rutgers at the time.

Some interesting pictures (more in the link below of Manasquan and Avon and Shark River Hills):

First Ave (Manasquan?)

Monmouth Beach

Manasquan

Nor'easter of December 1992: See its fury and destruction

Nor'easter of December 1992: See its fury and destruction

www.app.com

 

[knightfan7]

The surge wasn't as bad and recovery was a lot quicker in '92.

On the other hand, '92 didn't have days of warnings and caught many by surprise.

 

[e5fdny]

The surge wasn't as bad and recovery was a lot quicker in '92.

On the other hand, '92 didn't have days of warnings and caught many by surprise.

That looks pretty bad…

 

[knightfan7]

That looks pretty bad…

Absolutely. Point was it wasn't as bad infrastructure wise and not nearly as many homes were severely damaged.

 

[knightfan7]

Monmouth County towns report a total of $30 million in badge revenue.

Let the debate continue.

Beach badge revenue reached $30M for first time in Monmouth County NJ

Monmouth County beaches saw a surge in visitors last summer, contributing to a thriving tourism economy despite inflation concerns.

www.app.com

 

[e5fdny]

Monmouth County towns report a total of $30 million in badge revenue.

Let the debate continue.

Beach badge revenue reached $30M for first time in Monmouth County NJ

Monmouth County beaches saw a surge in visitors last summer, contributing to a thriving tourism economy despite inflation concerns.

www.app.com

Some might not agree on the actual price/amount. But it is the fairest user tax out there IMO.

 

[koleszar]

Monmouth County towns report a total of $30 million in badge revenue.

Let the debate continue.

Beach badge revenue reached $30M for first time in Monmouth County NJ

Monmouth County beaches saw a surge in visitors last summer, contributing to a thriving tourism economy despite inflation concerns.

www.app.com

From the article, "visitors set aside concerns about inflation"? People stop traveling far during times like these, people instead go within driving distance for vacations. No one put any fears aside, rather they just chose the cheaper option. I just bought over $100 worth of groceries, no meats, no deli and I didn't even cover the bottom of the cart. They maybe telling us inflations over, but it sure as sh*t doesn't feel like it or look like it.

 

[e5fdny]

From the article, "visitors set aside concerns about inflation"? People stop traveling far during times like these, people instead go within driving distance for vacations. No one put any fears aside, rather they just chose the cheaper option.

Although some might disagree with that choice of words.

 

[Knight Shift]

Although some might disagree with that choice of words.

As in, cheaper to drive 3-6 hours south for cheaper rentals in the Carolinas, Virginia or perhaps Delaware, or take a plane to a place where it is cheaper to rent a place for a week.

 

[koleszar]

Although some might disagree with that choice of words.

Went to see mom in Naples, Florida for 5 days on a wellness check. Nothing special and it was well over $3k for two people. Can you imagine a family of 4 for a week. These families have to take out a second mortgage for Pete's sake.

 

[e5fdny]

Went to see mom in Naples, Florida for 5 days on a wellness check. Nothing special and it was well over $3k for two people. Can you imagine a family of 4 for a week. These families have to take out a second mortgage for Pete's sake.

Well I always had a place to stay so…😎

But yes, pricey.

And there are still some nice and (relatively) affordable spots on the Gulf Coast.

 

[e5fdny]

As in, cheaper to drive 3-6 hours south for cheaper rentals in the Carolinas, Virginia or perhaps Delaware, or take a plane to a place where it is cheaper to rent a place for a week.

More along the lines of “the beach badge is too expensive to begin with and should be done away with” crowd.

 

[koleszar]

Well I always had a place to stay so…😎

But yes, pricey.

And there are still some nice and (relatively) affordable spots on the Gulf Coast.

My mom has a two bedroom in her senior living place and she bought it so my brother and I could stay over. Problem is we can't do it. Even in her house we couldn't, we'd just go outside to the pool. She keeps her temp at like 79 degrees. I looked at her one time during dinner and said, "this is so nice I love breaking out in a full sweat while eating". First thing I used to do when walking in is turn the temp down to 70. One time I forgot to turn it back up and got the call that night, "I think my heats broken".

 

[NotInRHouse]

From the article, "visitors set aside concerns about inflation"? People stop traveling far during times like these, people instead go within driving distance for vacations. No one put any fears aside, rather they just chose the cheaper option. I just bought over $100 worth of groceries, no meats, no deli and I didn't even cover the bottom of the cart. They maybe telling us inflations over, but it sure as sh*t doesn't feel like it or look like it.

As someone who goes to the Jersey Shore and travels a lot by air, I have never, ever, seen the traffic on both I have seen from 2021 through this year.

And I have never encountered so many Americans in foreign destinations.

Every flight is booked solid. Flights to Costa Rica with only English announcements because it's all Americans on board.

And then lines at the shore everywhere and can't even make restaurant reservations because it's so packed. Including during the week. And traffic on roads where it was never present before.

If the middle class is suffering, rich people sure as heck found their way to Belmar and Manasquan and really have fallen in love with Latin America and non tony parts of Europe like never before. I kind of doubt it...

 

[NotInRHouse]

Some might not agree on the actual price/amount. But it is the fairest user tax out there IMO.

Is it paying to keep the beach clean or is it paying for rent a cops to ticket shore houses because there was a red cup on their porch. Because the former is fine but the evidence indicates to me it's the latter. I find it somewhat implausible that other 49 states just have extra clean beachgoers or somehow charge more taxes elsewhere...

 

[e5fdny]

Is it paying to keep the beach clean or is it paying for rent a cops to ticket shore houses because there was a red cup on their porch. Because the former is fine but the evidence indicates to me it's the latter. I find it somewhat implausible that other 49 states just have extra clean beachgoers or somehow charge more taxes elsewhere...

They don’t. And it has to come, maintaining the beach (cleanliness, security, safety, etc.) from somewhere. So why not charge those who use it?

Can’t speak for @koleszar because we were talking about Naples. But in my personal experience, not so clean.

Hamptons beaches which I frequent once a summer, clean. But the parking is very expensive. Guessing that’s how they pay for stuff.

 

[e5fdny]

As someone who goes to the Jersey Shore and travels a lot by air, I have never, ever, seen the traffic on both I have seen from 2021 through this year.

And I have never encountered so many Americans in foreign destinations.

Every flight is booked solid. Flights to Costa Rica with only English announcements because it's all Americans on board.

And then lines at the shore everywhere and can't even make restaurant reservations because it's so packed. Including during the week. And traffic on roads where it was never present before.

If the middle class is suffering, rich people sure as heck found their way to Belmar and Manasquan and really have fallen in love with Latin America and non tony parts of Europe like never before. I kind of doubt it...

Pretty much answered your previous question above.

It’s (the whole area) is getting used. So it’s to reason why the beach fee revenue is up.

 

[newell138]

Went to see mom in Naples, Florida for 5 days on a wellness check. Nothing special and it was well over $3k for two people. Can you imagine a family of 4 for a week. These families have to take out a second mortgage for Pete's sake.

With so many rentals destroyed by the hurricane on the Gulf coast prices are only going to go up. FL isn’t much cheaper than NJ shore unless you want to go in the summer. We pay about 4K per week for a 1 BR beachfront condo in Marco, that’s probably more than a similar rental in NJ

 

[NotInRHouse]

They don’t. And it has to come, maintaining the beach (cleanliness, security, safety, etc.) from somewhere. So why not charge those who use it?

Can’t speak for @koleszar because we were talking about Naples. But in my personal experience, not so clean.

Hamptons beaches which I frequent once a summer, clean. But the parking is very expensive. Guessing that’s how they pay for stuff.

Yes, in NYS (eg, Hamptons or Jones Beach) they will get you with parking, and in CA I have encountered pay to park too. But I have definitely seen clean beaches in Maryland, Florida, Hawaii and Puerto Rico without charge.

I think the beach in Manasquan is usually quite clean, but I am confident much of the revenue is going to off beach activity like code enforcement that is often overkill.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Pretty much answered your previous question above.

It’s (the whole area) is getting used. So it’s to reason why the beach fee revenue is up.

I think if you asked local businesses they would tell you their revenues are up. I have never seen lines and traffic like last few years. Except at the airport...on every flight....

Did you see any Saturday at Parker where the line wasn't going around the corner...it was not like that pre Pandemic.

 

[e5fdny]

I think if you asked local businesses, they would tell you their revenues are up. I have never seen lines and traffic like last few years. Except at the airport...on every flight....

Did you see any Saturday at Parker where the line wasn't going around the corner...it was not like that pre-Pandemic.

Not disagreeing. Just saying the beach badge, as it's set up now, works.

Those who go, pay. Those who just go the eat, dance, etc., do not.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Not disagreeing. Just saying the beach badge, as it's set up now, works.

Those who go, pay. Those who just go the eat, dance, etc., do not.

I agree with the concept, I just think it's not carried out well. Like a lot of things.

I'm not a big hiker, but I have no issue with the state keeping the trails. If they kept the beach, the beach haters would live.

Just like the South Orange Community Alums deal with a penny of their taxes going to RU lol.

 

[Knight Shift]

Is it paying to keep the beach clean or is it paying for rent a cops to ticket shore houses because there was a red cup on their porch. Because the former is fine but the evidence indicates to me it's the latter. I find it somewhat implausible that other 49 states just have extra clean beachgoers or somehow charge more taxes elsewhere...

Tulsi Gabbard agrees

 

[knightfan7]

Will Tulsi be kind enough to tell us where the money for upkeep, garbage colection, lifeguards, and NIRH, the extra police when you have 20,000 people in a town that has 5.000 the rest of the yeat will come from

 

[MADHAT1]

Will Tulsi be kind enough to tell us where the money for upkeep, garbage colection, lifeguards, and NIRH, the extra police when you have 20,000 people in a town that has 5.000 the rest of the yeat will come from

Easy, the charge those against having to buy a beach badge will pay for applying to be exempt from needing a beach badge 🥸

 

[Knight Shift]

Will Tulsi be kind enough to tell us where the money for upkeep, garbage colection, lifeguards, and NIRH, the extra police when you have 20,000 people in a town that has 5.000 the rest of the yeat will come from

Easier for her to say coming from Hawaii. Don't know exactly how the beaches are funded there, but the link provides a clue, and as I had figured, they get it from tourists one way or another through taxes and fees, which are not as transparent as paying for a badge.

Would imagine other places with large swaths of hotels probably use hotel and transient lodging taxes to fund beach cleanup and lifeguards.

Probably why the beaches in Atlantic City do not charge a badge fee.

Manasquan to Sandy Hook beaches do not have a lot of hotels to fund the beaches.

The towns/municipalities have to get the money from somewhere.

Hawai‘i Voters Agree: Tourists Should Pay to Protect Our Islands’ Natural Resources

Hawai'i voters overwhelmingly agree that tourists should pay a "green fee" to maintain and manage natural and cultural resources, which could help close Hawaiʻi’s conservation funding gap.

www.nature.org

 

[e5fdny]

I agree with the concept, I just think it's not carried out well. Like a lot of things.

I'm not a big hiker, but I have no issue with the state keeping the trails. If they kept the beach, the beach haters would live.

Just like the South Orange Community Alums deal with a penny of their taxes going to RU lol.

The trails though sometimes overlap municipal boundaries. Maybe that's why?

 

[knightfan7]

Yes, in NYS (eg, Hamptons or Jones Beach) they will get you with parking, and in CA I have encountered pay to park too. But I have definitely seen clean beaches in Maryland, Florida, Hawaii and Puerto Rico without charge.

I think the beach in Manasquan is usually quite clean, but I am confident much of the revenue is going to off beach activity like code enforcement that is often overkill.

You can FOIA the beach budget, which by law is separate from the town budget, if that's a concern. As far as I know there's 1 Code Enforcement officer who makes up an insignificant part of the overall beach budget.

You do realize putting 15-20 adults in a house is a quality of life issue for others right?

 

[Knight Shift]

Interesting from APP.com, showing 5 year % increase in taxes. Wowza for some of the beach towns ( and some inland towns). @e5fdny , @knightfan7 , @koleszar

Deal 32%, Spring Lake 16%, Long Branch 22%, Monmouth Beach 19%, Keansburg 33%, Squan 17%, Belmar 19%, Lake Como 20%, Spring Lake Height 18%.

Meanwhile, Howell 11% (they must tax unused snowblowers on farms heavily?), Sea Bright 9%, Wall 7%!!!!

Curious how Sea Bright kept it so low. But why should shore town residents adjacent to beaches be paying such large increases in taxes. "Free" beaches will make the problem worse.

NJ property taxes: What towns pay the most? Where are the biggest increases?

Monmouth and Ocean County municipalities took three of the top five spots for largest property tax increases in New Jersey in the last five years.

www.app.com

 

[knightfan7]

My taxes have increased more than the Squan average but then, so has the value.

 

[Knight Shift]

My taxes have increased more than the Squan average but then, so has the value.

Yeah, what is not accounted for is the number of new homes that continue to be build where old homes used to stand. While Sandy was 2011 and many homes were rebuilt prior to 2018, a lot of old homes are still be replaced by new one. But that raised a question- where is all that extra property tax money going in these towns and the county--perhaps the schools because there are more full time residents with kids in the schools?

 

[knightfan7]

Yup. 12+ years since Sandy yet there's still construction going on.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Tulsi Gabbard agrees

View embedded media

It's already decriminalized...I am sure you read the case in law school, I think it's in most property text books.

 

[koleszar]

Meanwhile, Howell 11% (they must tax unused snowblowers on farms heavily?), Sea Bright 9%, Wall 7%!!!!

Just think about how big Howell is, it's over 60 miles sq. and has almost 54,000 residents. An 11% increase equals a helluva lot more money and they've cut back on services. I know some went to schools with the decreased State allocations, but I have no idea where the rest is going.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Will Tulsi be kind enough to tell us where the money for upkeep, garbage colection, lifeguards, and NIRH, the extra police when you have 20,000 people in a town that has 5.000 the rest of the yeat will come from

I am not against collecting a fee per se, I am questioning where the fees go.

There is a code enforcement person out there literally writing new codes. If they replaced these people with litter collectors it's fine by me.

Re: the police, if you took from Brielle to Bradley (OG is part of Neptune) and made "Monmouth Shore Township" and consolidated the resources (like they do for Manasquan HS up through Avon) it would save a lot of $, time and resources.

 

[NotInRHouse]

The trails though sometimes overlap municipal boundaries. Maybe that's why?

The beaches to do though. Even say, each county having a "beach authority" would probably be a savings versus each town, often these little towns, running fiefdoms.

 

[NotInRHouse]

You can FOIA the beach budget, which by law is separate from the town budget, if that's a concern. As far as I know there's 1 Code Enforcement officer who makes up an insignificant part of the overall beach budget.

You do realize putting 15-20 adults in a house is a quality of life issue for others right?

Yes. Ironically the code enforcement has taken more interest in the houses I've done with an average age over 30 with less than 10 than the ones with 20+. Depends what strikes them and the day.

Enforce the laws, just don't make up new ones. If you want one day I can show you what they have been up to, you would be impressed (not in a good way).

Re: quality of life, I have the same idea for Manasquan as I do for Jersey City. Fine people riding bikes on the sidewalk. If they got half the people doing it, they could pay people to come on the beach, and pave the streets here in Hudson County with gold after zeroing out property taxes.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Interesting from APP.com, showing 5 year % increase in taxes. Wowza for some of the beach towns ( and some inland towns). @e5fdny , @knightfan7 , @koleszar

Deal 32%, Spring Lake 16%, Long Branch 22%, Monmouth Beach 19%, Keansburg 33%, Squan 17%, Belmar 19%, Lake Como 20%, Spring Lake Height 18%.

Meanwhile, Howell 11% (they must tax unused snowblowers on farms heavily?), Sea Bright 9%, Wall 7%!!!!

Curious how Sea Bright kept it so low. But why should shore town residents adjacent to beaches be paying such large increases in taxes. "Free" beaches will make the problem worse.

NJ property taxes: What towns pay the most? Where are the biggest increases?

Monmouth and Ocean County municipalities took three of the top five spots for largest property tax increases in New Jersey in the last five years.

www.app.com

Deal was in big trouble recently exactly for the issue you highlighted...violating the law to let people access the water line on the beach.

Idk if you read the piece in NJ.com recently about Loch Arbor...fascinating the legal issues they have recently. Probably the most interesting thing I ever read on that site lol.

 

[Knight Shift]

Just think about how big Howell is, it's over 60 miles sq. and has almost 54,000 residents. An 11% increase equals a helluva lot more money and they've cut back on services. I know some went to schools with the decreased State allocations, but I have no idea where the rest is going.

Wait until all the new neighbors increase the numbers.

 

[e5fdny]

The beaches to do though. Even say, each county having a "beach authority" would probably be a savings versus each town, often these little towns, running fiefdoms.

Not yet they don’t.