OT: Bitcoin, Altcoins, NFT's & All Things Crypto

[xWVU2010x]

People are going to stay worried about their currency diminishing in value over time. That isn’t new. I don’t know why you wouldn’t be worried about that. It’s the same reason people flee to real estate and you have investors mass buying all the homes. Is that their way of “new ideas” and contributing to society? If we get to the point where water and farm animals are the new currency, we will all probably have much bigger problems than dollars or bitcoin lol. I disagree about incentive. But I don’t think we ever see a bitcoin standard ever in our lifetimes at least so no point to argue it

Despite the dollar decreasing in value forever (as it should), median US workers have a quality of life on par with the upper class of the 1920s. The minimum wage worker on par with the middle class of that era. Pretty unbelievable for that to happen in a rigged game where “they” are playing games with the currency to screw everyone over.

Billionaires, if they were to hoard their money rather than invest in companies because the value of the money is guaranteed to increase over time, would be catastrophic for the rest of the country. That means less new ideas, less new jobs, stagnant wages…

The economy runs on goods and services. Agreed, if water and farm animals are the new currency we are screwed, because the supply and value of goods and services are what drives economic activity not the currency. So you can hoard all of the bitcoin you want, but you are not shielded from inflation if currency becomes worthless since there is no more available food or other essential needs you get from a store. The biggest threat of the hyperinflation I mentioned is being unable to get things, and jacking up tariffs and threatening your trade partners is a great way to jeopardize supply and cause inflation to spike, it’s not JPow printing the dollar into oblivion.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Does SOL and ETH have any utility outside of facilitating shitcoins and worthless NFTs? I looked up who accepts it for payment and there are 700 “merchants” worldwide none of which offer anything anyone would want to buy.

Start your research here…

https://depinhub.io/projects?depinhub%3Aprojects%5BrefinementList%5D%5Bblockchains%5D%5B0%5D=solana

 

[T2Kplus20]

Crypto wins again! Beats the DOJ in court. Likely the reason why ETH is pumping:

Fifth Circuit Rules OFAC Overstepped in Sanctioning Tornado Cash's Immutable Smart Contracts - Decrypt

The decision reverses a lower court ruling and marks a significant win for privacy advocates and blockchain developers seeking legal clarity.

decrypt.co

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Crypto wins again! Beats the DOJ in court. Likely the reason why ETH is pumping:

Fifth Circuit Rules OFAC Overstepped in Sanctioning Tornado Cash's Immutable Smart Contracts - Decrypt

The decision reverses a lower court ruling and marks a significant win for privacy advocates and blockchain developers seeking legal clarity.

decrypt.co

Nearly every pending action has been thrown out. Pretty amazing how quickly views changed

 

[T2Kplus20]

Nearly every pending action has been thrown out. Pretty amazing how quickly views changed

Happy Thanksgiving to Gary Gensler and Elizabeth Warren. FU both! :)

 

[xWVU2010x]

Bitcoiners own the government now. Whatever happens or doesn’t happen is on the advocates ITT. Unregulated finance has never failed before and unchecked humans have never proven to be stupid and greedy before, so we’ll be fine.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Bitcoiners own the government now. Whatever happens or doesn’t happen is on the advocates ITT. Unregulated finance has never failed before.

People advocating for actual laws to be in place and for said laws to be followed are a problem? That’s your best take yet

 

[xWVU2010x]

People advocating for actual laws to be in place and for said laws to be followed are a problem? That’s your best take yet

Lol the people now in charge want the “regulatory clarity” to be “there are no rules”.

You think they are going to pass anything that would do anything to hurt the price? They want it to be a completely unchecked black market playground and that’s what they will put into place.

We will get to see things that will make subprime lending seem like a nothing burger, you can literally inflate the value of your assets with counterfeit dollars and dog money in the crypto sphere today, just wait until Blackrock decides to start playing in that sandbox with the blessing of the new pro crypto SEC and Congress.

This country seems intent on touching a hot stove and won’t get off of the idea until mommy isn’t there to stop it, which might finally have happened.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Lol the people now in charge want the “regulatory clarity” to be “there are no rules”.

You think they are going to pass anything that would do anything to hurt the price? They want it to be a completely unchecked black market playground and that’s what they will put into place.

We will get to see things that will make subprime lending seem like a nothing burger, you can literally inflate the value of your assets with counterfeit dollars and dog money in the crypto sphere today, just wait until Blackrock decides to start playing in that sandbox with the blessing of the new pro crypto SEC and Congress.

This country seems intent on touching a hot stove and won’t get off of the idea until mommy isn’t there to stop it, which might finally have happened.

I’d be ok with something in the middle of unregulated and choked out with no rhyme or reason (what we’ve had up until now). I also don’t disagree there’s a chance Wall Street sets this up to potentially blow up similar to subprime mortgages. None of that would be the fault of anyone ITT 😂

 

[xWVU2010x]

I’d be ok with something in the middle of unregulated and choked out with no rhyme or reason (what we’ve had up until now)

They haven’t even come close to “choking out” anything, are we not where we are?

. I also don’t disagree there’s a chance Wall Street sets this up to potentially blow up similar to subprime mortgages. None of that would be the fault of anyone ITT 😂

Are you and other bitcoiners not cheerleading on everytime a bad actor escapes prosecution through a loophole? Did most of you not all vote for Trump and his pro crypto anti establishment platform? When they get what they want they will have rode the wave of people like you to get there and I guess we’ll find out if there was a reason for guardrails or not. Frankly I hope you guys are right, I like my quality of life, I just think the Bitcoin movement is seriously shortsighted and flawed, and the science experiment has gotten way too far ahead of its initial grassroots.

 

[RUAldo]

Lol the people now in charge want the “regulatory clarity” to be “there are no rules”.

You think they are going to pass anything that would do anything to hurt the price? They want it to be a completely unchecked black market playground and that’s what they will put into place.

We will get to see things that will make subprime lending seem like a nothing burger, you can literally inflate the value of your assets with counterfeit dollars and dog money in the crypto sphere today, just wait until Blackrock decides to start playing in that sandbox with the blessing of the new pro crypto SEC and Congress.

This country seems intent on touching a hot stove and won’t get off of the idea until mommy isn’t there to stop it, which might finally have happened.

Just imagine if there is a massive crypto crash - are they going to bail out Galaxy, the Winklevoss twins, Coinbase, etc.? Hate to say it but with Trump and politicians on the crypto-take I bet they try to prop up crypto.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

They haven’t even come close to “choking out” anything, are we not where we are?


Are you and other bitcoiners not cheerleading on everytime a bad actor escapes prosecution through a loophole? Did most of you not all vote for Trump and his pro crypto anti establishment platform? When they get what they want they will have rode the wave of people like you to get there and I guess we’ll find out if there was a reason for guardrails or not. Frankly I hope you guys are right, I like my quality of life, I just think the Bitcoin movement is seriously shortsighted and flawed, and the science experiment has gotten way too far ahead of its initial grassroots.

When I lived in New Jersey I couldn’t stake Solana because of some vague interpretation of the regulations. They’ve since fixed that I think. They came very close to choking out the industry through strange actions such as these. They are now being rolled back and hopefully having an actual framework.

I haven’t cheered anything of the sort. I’m a big fan of actual scammers getting what they deserve ala SBF.

Do you have this much energy going after the same bad actors in traditional markets and business or is it just crypto that gets you worked up

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Just imagine if there is a massive crypto crash - are they going to bail out Galaxy, the Winklevoss twins, Coinbase, etc.? Hate to say it but with Trump and politicians on the crypto-take I bet they try to prop up crypto.

There have been giant crypto crashes and no one is bailed out. Were you worried when the auto or banking industries crashed and politicians “on the take” approved bailouts there?

 

[RUAldo]

They haven’t even come close to “choking out” anything, are we not where we are?

What blows my mind is the shitcoin/memecoin market is apparently $110B. I’m told it takes a few hundred dollars to mint a coin and most are pump-and-dump scams. My 15-year old son and his buddies buy/sell this trash trying to strike it rich. At best it’s gambling. At worst these coins are fraud. Where are the regulators? I couldn’t open up a storefront Fantasy Island arcade in my town without getting local and state approvals, licenses, etc. especially if I am exchanging money for virtual credits that can be used to buy prizes = you need an amusement device license, redemption amusement license, and a bunch others.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

What blows my mind is the shitcoin/memecoin market is apparently $110B. I’m told it takes a few hundred dollars to mint a coin and most are pump-and-dump scams. My 15-year old son and his buddies buy/sell this trash trying to strike it rich. At best it’s gambling. At worst these coins are fraud. Where are the regulators? I couldn’t open up a storefront Fantasy Island arcade in my town without getting local and state approvals, licenses, etc. especially if I am exchanging money for virtual credits that can be used to buy prizes = you need an amusement device license, redemption amusement license, and a bunch others.

The funny thing about that is you could buy Solana, stake it for 10-15% through a validator and insure the efficiency of the network, the core of what Solana is designed to do as a proof of stake network.

But instead you and I’d hate to say unfortunately your son are chasing shit coins. You would probably be considered part of the problem that you are currently railing against.

Again, to use an analogy, you’re using the internet for porn or gambling and complaining the internet isn’t better regulated.

 

[RUAldo]

There have been giant crypto crashes and no one is bailed out. Were you worried when the auto or banking industries crashed and politicians “on the take” approved bailouts there?

Yes I was worried once I learned about leverage in the system and CMBS (I was in finance). Anyone that was trying to buy a house at the time knew something was wrong. I had friends that made like $50K a year with little savings buying multiple houses with almost nothing down. I’d show up to an open house and they would already have multiple offers over asking.

But the auto and banking industry are at least made up of real companies with real employees that sell real products and services that society uses. Nobody uses crypto for anything right now other than speculation. It could disappear tomorrow and aside from a financial crisis nobody would ever miss it.

 

[RUAldo]

But instead you and I’d hate to say unfortunately your son are chasing shit coins. You would probably be considered part of the problem that you are currently railing against.

He knows the shitcoins are a scam. He’s just having fun with it, but does take crypto as a future technology seriously and is not anti-BTC. He has his own Fidelity account where he invests/trades on his own and has actually outperformed me the last 6 months albeit on a much smaller scale.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

He knows the shitcoins are a scam. He’s just having fun with it, but does take crypto as a future technology seriously and is not anti-BTC. He has his own Fidelity account where he invests/trades on his own and has actually outperformed me the last 6 months albeit on a much smaller scale.

This is the general Solana take on pump.fun. The shit coining is the least of it. It’s more of a web control moderation issue than anything else. The stuff being live streamed there is disgusting and should be shut down. I’d be concerned if I were you for different reasons.

 

[T2Kplus20]

There have been giant crypto crashes and no one is bailed out. Were you worried when the auto or banking industries crashed and politicians “on the take” approved bailouts there?

LOL at all those worried about crypto bailouts.....in light of massive bailouts for so many other industries.

 

[xWVU2010x]

Just imagine if there is a massive crypto crash - are they going to bail out Galaxy, the Winklevoss twins, Coinbase, etc.? Hate to say it but with Trump and politicians on the crypto-take I bet they try to prop up crypto.

I’d say the odds are about -180 on a crypto bailout within 10 years.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

I’d say the odds are about -180 on a crypto bailout within 10 years.

What are the odds on Coinbase insolvency?

 

[xWVU2010x]

When I lived in New Jersey I couldn’t stake Solana because of some vague interpretation of the regulations. They’ve since fixed that I think. They came very close to choking out the industry through strange actions such as these. They are now being rolled back and hopefully having an actual framework.

I haven’t cheered anything of the sort. I’m a big fan of actual scammers getting what they deserve ala SBF.

Do you have this much energy going after the same bad actors in traditional markets and business or is it just crypto that gets you worked up

SBF got in trouble because he pissed off a fellow industry pillar who decided to expose the liquidity problem behind the fraudulent valuations of shitcoins, in this case FTX coin. That combined with him pantsing the establishment who tried to prop him up as the trustworthy face of crypto and his own stupidity of resisting a plea deal, he lands in jail for a few decades. But the problems with FTX are everywhere, but presently they are mostly isolated to the offshore funny money sector, it won’t stay that way much longer IMO.

As for staking SOL in NJ, that’s small potatoes and was nowhere close to choking out crypto in this country. Its also par for the course here, there’s red tape with everything in this state, we are definitely a bit too far to the left in terms of regulation here and I don’t think people should not be allowed to stake cryptos, my issue is primarily with the rules around trading them, leveraging loans against them, security around them etc. IMO they should be labeled as securities and be subject to the laws that stocks are. You should not be able to wash trade your currency up to a phony valuation and profit off of that. You should not be able to list a shitcoin on an exchange and avoid the same rules and regulations penny stocks on the NYSE have to deal with. You should not be able to get Elon Musk to start tweeting about your worthless shitcoin and mutually profit off of it. You should not be able to use your BTC stash as leverage for a loan to buy more BTC.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

SBF got in trouble because he pissed off a fellow industry pillar who decided to expose the liquidity problem behind the fraudulent valuations of shitcoins, in this case FTX coin. That combined with him pantsing the establishment who tried to prop him up as the trustworthy face of crypto and his own stupidity of resisting a plea deal, he lands in jail for a few decades. But the problems with FTX are everywhere, but presently they are mostly isolated to the offshore funny money sector, it won’t stay that way much longer IMO.

As for staking SOL in NJ, that’s small potatoes and was nowhere close to choking out crypto in this country. Its also par for the course here, there’s red tape with everything in this state, we are definitely a bit too far to the left in terms of regulation here and I don’t think people should not be allowed to stake cryptos, my issue is primarily with the rules around trading them, leveraging loans against them, security around them etc. IMO they should be labeled as securities and be subject to the laws that stocks are. You should not be able to wash trade your currency up to a phony valuation and profit off of that. You should not be able to list a shitcoin on an exchange and avoid the same rules and regulations penny stocks on the NYSE have to deal with. You should not be able to get Elon Musk to start tweeting about your worthless shitcoin and mutually profit off of it. You should not be able to use your BTC stash as leverage for a loan to buy more BTC.

In the stock and investment thread I called this out over and over, never cheered it. The stuff you mention isn’t isolated to crypto. Even with rules in place the SEC struggles to regulate this stuff.

Zack Morris And Atlas Trading See Criminal Case Dismissed

The criminal case against social media personalities led by Zack Morris has been dismissed without prejudice by the United States District Court. Morris (legally Edward Constantinescu) is in a lega…

thedeepdive.ca

 

[RUAldo]

LOL at all those worried about crypto bailouts.....in light of massive bailouts for so many other industries.

Crypto-Backed Mortgage Loans seem like a good idea to you?

 

[xWVU2010x]

What are the odds on Coinbase insolvency?

Idk I’ve been off of this rabbit hole for awhile, are they profitable yet?

 

[RUAldo]

In the stock and investment thread I called this out over and over, never cheered it. The stuff you mention isn’t isolated to crypto. Even with rules in place the SEC struggles to regulate this stuff.

Zack Morris And Atlas Trading See Criminal Case Dismissed

The criminal case against social media personalities led by Zack Morris has been dismissed without prejudice by the United States District Court. Morris (legally Edward Constantinescu) is in a lega…

thedeepdive.ca

I get it - and you aren’t wrong - but we need less of this not more.

 

[xWVU2010x]

What blows my mind is the shitcoin/memecoin market is apparently $110B.

Its not. The actual money floating around shitcoins is probably around $1b with a a lot more funneling into the pockets of sketchy founders, illegal enterprises, and exchanges. If you are disciplined and can spot patterns there is money to be made if you cut and run, I did this for awhile in 2017 and it took over my life for like 6 months. I’d say that part of my life is why I watch this industry so closely and am frankly shocked it has grown to where it is today.

I’m told it takes a few hundred dollars to mint a coin and most are pump-and-dump scams. My 15-year old son and his buddies buy/sell this trash trying to strike it rich. At best it’s gambling. At worst these coins are fraud.

They might make a lot of money or lose whatever they invest, it’s a combination of both gambling and fraud but the upside is real.

Where are the regulators? I couldn’t open up a storefront Fantasy Island arcade in my town without getting local and state approvals, licenses, etc. especially if I am exchanging money for virtual credits that can be used to buy prizes = you need an amusement device license, redemption amusement license, and a bunch others.

Great question. The democrats had 4 years and shit the bed, now the Republicans get their turn and are decidedly in the crypto lobby’s pocket, the worst possible scenarios you can imagine are on the table. I’d recommend buying in the short term even though I long term will always believe this crap will fade one day.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Its not. The actual money floating around shitcoins is probably around $1b with a a lot more funneling into the pockets of sketchy founders, illegal enterprises, and exchanges. If you are disciplined and can spot patterns there is money to be made if you cut and run, I did this for awhile in 2017 and it took over my life for like 6 months. I’d say that part of my life is why I watch this industry so closely and am frankly shocked it has grown to where it is today.


They might make a lot of money or lose whatever they invest, it’s a combination of both gambling and fraud but the upside is real.


Great question. The democrats had 4 years and shit the bed, now the Republicans get their turn and are decidedly in the crypto lobby’s pocket, the worst possible scenarios you can imagine are on the table. I’d recommend buying in the short term even though I long term will always believe this crap will fade one day.

“The actual money floating around shitcoins is probably around $1b”

Can you explain?

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Idk I’ve been off of this rabbit hole for awhile, are they profitable yet?

They’re just barely profitable I believe

 

[xWVU2010x]

“The actual money floating around shitcoins is probably around $1b”

Can you explain?

Random shitcoin created out of thin air, arbitrarily listed on Kraken at $1.00, 100 million coins in circulation, 30 million owned by founders, 10 million owned by Kraken in exchange for listing the shitcoin, 10 million to trusted ground floor “community members” the rest into open circulation via air drops, players, influencers, open inventory. Primary holders hold and sell big chunks of coins back and forth to each other to 1.25, 1.50, 2.00 etc etc, influencers pile in to talk about their hot new coin that went 2x in 48 hours and is sure to 10x! Retail piles in, some make money, most don’t, players sell into the rallies, rinse and repeat as long as they can. Probably an actual $1m flows into this during the whole process but there was a $200m market cap at one point, however the volume was never enough to support $200m in outflows.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Random shitcoin created out of thin air, arbitrarily listed on Kraken at $1.00, 100 million coins in circulation, 30 million owned by founders, 10 millions owned by Kraken in exchange for listing the shitcoin, 10 million to trusted ground floor “community members” the rest into open circulation via air drops, players, influencers, open inventory. Primary holders hold and sell big chunks of coins back and forth to each other to 1.25, 1.50, 2.00 etc etc, influencers pile in to talk about their hot new coin that went 2x in 48 hours and is sure to 10x! Retail piles in, some make money, most don’t, players sell into the rallies, rinse and repeat as long as they can. Probably an actual $1m flows into this during the whole process but there was a $200m market cap at one point, however the volume was never enough to support $200m in outflows.

That’s how a shitcoin works sure, but those market caps are tied to stable coins at some point in time. If that money in shitcoins doesn’t exist, where is the money from stables?

 

[xWVU2010x]

That’s how a shitcoin works sure, but those market caps are tied to stable coins at some point in time. If that money in shitcoins doesn’t exist, where is the money from stables?

If only tether would answer that question through an audit

 

[Rutgers Chris]

If only tether would answer that question through an audit

I knew you were in that camp. Sure Tether should, a promise note from Cantor Fitzgerald is nice but there could be more. But Tether is 4 years older than Usdc and Usdc has a fully verifiable $33B in reserves. Not crazy to think Tether has 4x that. Where are the $33B from usdc if everything is fake?

 

[xWVU2010x]

I knew you were in that camp. Sure Tether should, a promise note from Cantor Fitzgerald is nice but there could be more. But Tether is 4 years older than Usdc and Usdc has a fully verifiable $33B in reserves. Not crazy to think Tether has 4x that. Where are the $33B from usdc if everything is fake?

Even if they did. Where is it from? Who is securing it? Why won’t they prove it? It’s not crazy to ask why someone allegedly the size of vanguard ask where their assets are and why they only have like 20 employees. Why is Cantor Fitzgerald’s AUM only 10% of Tether’s market cap?

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Even if they did. Where is it from? Who is securing it? Why won’t they prove it?

Cantor has said they hold their t bills. They just invested $600M in them. That to me shows they’re comfortable with their books.

Do you doubt the $33B in usdc too?

 

[xWVU2010x]

Cantor has said they hold their t bills. They just invested $600M in them. That to me shows they’re comfortable with their books.

Do you doubt the $33B in usdc too?

Why is Cantor Fitzgerald’s AUM only 10% of Tether’s market cap?

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Why is Cantor Fitzgerald’s AUM only 10% of Tether’s market cap?

You’ll have to ask them. Now back to the usdc question?

 

[xWVU2010x]

You’ll have to ask them. Now back to the usdc question?

Lol so you have no logical explanation. USDC to my knowledge has never submitted to a full audit either but seems to be far less sketchy than tether or other stables, I would guess they are a much less fractional but still fractional unregulated bank. But it’s been awhile down the rabbit hole, if I’m wrong feel free to correct.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Lol so you have no logical explanation. USDC to my knowledge has never submitted to a full audit either but seems to be far less sketchy than tether or other stables, I would guess they are a much less fractional but still fractional unregulated bank. But it’s been awhile down the rabbit hole, if I’m wrong feel free to correct.

I don’t have a logical explanation for why Cantor Fitzgerald of all places would lie about a sketchy crypto company, you are correct.

Circle has an SEC registered fund held by Blackrock with $33B. Though I suppose they too could be lying if we want to go down that rabbit hole.

Circle Reserve Fund | USDXX | Institutional

Your stable coin take has been wrong for years, as is your assertion that there’s only $1B in meme coins.

 

[xWVU2010x]

I don’t have a logical explanation for why Cantor Fitzgerald of all places would lie about a sketchy crypto company, you are correct.

Circle has an SEC registered fund held by Blackrock with $33B. Though I suppose they too could be lying if we want to go down that rabbit hole.

Circle Reserve Fund | USDXX | Institutional

Your stable coin take has been wrong for years, as is your assertion that there’s only $1B in meme coins.

Think it’s possible Tether just threw some money at Cantor Fitzgerald for credibility? Again, they clearly don’t have $100b under management, so who cares if CF can vouch for $600m? That’s pennies compared to what allegedly exists.

As for USDC, it’s $33b but their market cap is $39b. They also have not submitted to a full audit, but regardless I’m far less concerned about Circle ripping open a hole in the financial system than other bad actors even if they create just a little hole.

My stable coin take is not wrong until those who issue stables prove they’re backed by dollars, otherwise it’s just a bunch of counterfeits. Should I be able to buy stock with USDWVU2010 coins backed by trust me bro?