OT: Chicken

[RutgersSam]

Yeah it sucks and I'm not immune to the argument. Hopefully we'll figure out cheap good lab meat and smarter animals can go back to just being eaten by bears and lions. Not much better but we won't have our guilt.

You're making many assumptions here. "Lower" intellect animals couped up in an area almost exactly the size of their bodies will still feel pain and indescribable muscle fatigue in the same way we would. It's akin to saying it's morally allowable for a highly mentally incapacitated human or a newborn to have extreme discomfort or active pain inflicted upon them because they can't understand their environment.

Foe grais should absolutely be completely banned. I would hope than anyone with a shred of human decency that knows what the duck endures abstains from consuming it.

 

[zazoo2002]

Some of the arguments presented in this thread by seemingly bright folks are just stupefying.

It's really quite simple:

Modern American diet - bad
Commercial farming practices - bad
Lack of compassion for any animal, no matter how low on the food chain - SMH

Advances in medical science and diagnostic tools may allow you to live longer, but can't necessarily guarantee quality of life. Good luck.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Get most of our eggs from Farmer Bob down the road. Sometimes eggs are brown, sometimes white, green (yep), blue, etc. But as mentioned above, the yolks are closer to orange, and the taste is just terrific. Also, they poach very nicely (since they are fresh).

Lots of stuff down here is free range. We just don't have that many buildings. Can buy lots of produce, meat, eggs, etc. from local farmers.

I've been cutting back on red meat and meat in general. It's tough though, as I do love a good burger, and bacon on anything.

 

[RUScrew85]

You're making many assumptions here. "Lower" intellect animals couped up in an area almost exactly the size of their bodies will still feel pain and indescribable muscle fatigue in the same way we would. It's akin to saying it's morally allowable for a highly mentally incapacitated human or a newborn to have extreme discomfort or active pain inflicted upon them because they can't understand their environment.

Foe grais should absolutely be completely banned. I would hope than anyone with a shred of human decency that knows what the duck endures abstains from consuming it.

Good points but my summary stands. Until we can factory produce meats prey animals are gonna get eaten. Life sucks for prey animals.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Good points but my summary stands. Until we can factory produce meats prey animals are gonna get eaten. Life sucks for prey animals.

I am not sure if people will be willing to give up meat from live animals vs meat grown in the lab, even if they both look and taste the same. Even if science can create steaks that prevent cancer... that will still be a hard sale for many people.

 

[oldman87]

Whatever you do, stay away from meat chicken.

 

[RUScrew85]

I am not sure if people will be willing to give up meat from live animals vs meat grown in the lab, even if they both look and taste the same. Even if science can create steaks that prevent cancer... that will still be a hard sale for many people.

Maybe, I for one will be for it for the reasons above.

 

[RUBand]

This is 100% correct. Without the steroids and pumping of corn feed down chickens throats the price per pound goes way up. They simply don't get as big as quick as say Perdue's chickens. But still have to be killed in a certain amount of months so they don't get tough. We sell eggs(wife's hobby) Our eggs you do see and taste a difference as they truly do free range and only eat organic feed($$$). The yolks are not yellow but orange and the eggs when cooked are much firmer and much more flavorful. We have 50 chickens and lose money. Without gov't subsidy's for food people would starve.

Where are you located?

 

[R1766U]

Anyone here raise chickens for eggs? Was thinking about getting a little coop, with 4 or 5 of them, but I live in a pretty residential neighborhood (no laws against having them though).

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

As long as you don't go Wade Boggs and eat it every damned day I think you will prolly lead a pretty full life either way.

 

[RutgersSam]

Good points but my summary stands. Until we can factory produce meats prey animals are gonna get eaten. Life sucks for prey animals.

Yes but 99.9% of these animals would never be born (and therefore never endure suffering) if factory farming didn't exist. They are suffering solely because people want the dopamine response when meat hits their taste buds.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Why do annoying fringe groups always feel the need to shove their opinions into your ear canal?

Yeah, you're vegan? Congratulations! That's just the coolest thing I ever heard! But we're talking about eating meat, so WTF are you here? You're like the PSU trolls of the chicken thread. No one cares about why you made the "most important decision of your life." Go away.

 

[mildone]

We are healthy eaters for most part, no beef,

:eek:

 

[mildone]

A Chernobyl cockroach, is what that looks like. <shudder>

 

[mildone]

This thread made me hungry as hell. So I went to McDonald's and ate a couple Double Quarter Pounders w/Cheese, a five piece chicken selects, an apple pie that appeared to have been deep fried in animal fat, and a vanilla shake.

Is that bad for me? I did skip the french fries and the super-size Coke.

 

[czxqa]

Pasture raised is the only humane way to go. I personally don't give a Damn but my girlfriend is all organic, wild caught, pasture raised etc. my food bills have tripled

Haha, my sister in law was in the supermarket the other day and heard some lady fighting with the guy from the meat department. She was demanding free range grass fed chicken. Wouldn't listen for a second as the guy tried to explain that chickens don't eat grass, they can't eat grass, but she wanted her grass fed chicken.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Usually, if I get stuck going to McDonald's, I just pray that I don't get horrifying diarrhea.

In your case, I'd be rooting for it ... the sooner that mess is out the better.

Didn't McDonald's stop deep-frying its pies 30 years ago, though? Remember them switching over to terrible baked ones.

 

[mildone]

Usually, if I get stuck going to McDonald's, I just pray that I don't get horrifying diarrhea.

In your case, I'd be rooting for it ... the sooner that mess is out the better.

Didn't McDonald's stop deep-frying its pies 30 years ago, though? Remember them switching over to terrible baked ones.

Don't know if it was fried or baked. But it was actually pretty tasty. It was also the only thing that seemed not to have been made yesterday and left under a warming lamp until tonight.

I should have stuck with pizza which is clearly the most healthy substance know to man. I'm supposed to be avoiding carbs. So I scrape the cheese off half the pie onto the other half and skip half the crust. I'm sure that's what the doctor meant.

 

[czxqa]

Just gave up chicken. Last step in going vegan. You can't get healthier and more humane than a plant based diet and there are surprisingly many many tasty options.

Actually this is completely untrue- the healthier part claim. The amino acid profiles of protein from meat are very different than the amino acid profiles of plant based proteins and in order to avoid the negative health consequences of a strictly plant based diet (for which humans are not designed) it is necessary to supplement the diet and monitor blood chemistry regularly.

The other bit is just ridiculous sophistry.

 

[czxqa]

Based on reality actually. Meat eaters are much more defensive and apt to brag about their barbaric and carnivorous ways than non-meat eaters. Plus you're actually contributing directly to the torture of millions of animals so you deserve to be vilified.

What are you going to do about all the lions, tigers and bears? Oh, my!

 

[FanuSanu52]

Don't know if it was fried or baked. But it was actually pretty tasty. It was also the only thing that seemed not to have been made yesterday and left under a warming lamp until tonight.

I should have stuck with pizza which is clearly the most healthy substance know to man. I'm supposed to be avoiding carbs. So I scrape the cheese off half the pie onto the other half and skip half the crust. I'm sure that's what the doctor meant.

See, they're not bad ... unless you had the classic fried ones. Those things tasted every bit as bad for you as they were, and they were awesome, at least for a kid. If those were around now, I'd go to McDonald's regularly just for them, but I'm pretty sure they just do baked.

LOL on the pizza. I am also trying a low-carb diet and am failing miserably. It's fine for a few days, but then I want a damn sandwich ... not a plate of meat and cheese.

 

[RutgersSam]

Actually this is completely untrue- the healthier part claim. The amino acid profiles of protein from meat are very different than the amino acid profiles of plant based proteins and in order to avoid the negative health consequences of a strictly plant based diet (for which humans are not designed) it is necessary to supplement the diet and monitor blood chemistry regularly.

The other bit is just ridiculous sophistry.

Wrong. You're selectively reading research and literature funded by the meat and dairy industry. I suggest you open your eyes to the full spectrum of research. As a doctor and a biochemist, I speak from a position of knowledge, as does the President of the American College of Cardiology:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/ct-met-vegan-cardiologist-20140817-story.html

 

[RU4Real]

If humans were intended to eat nothing but vegetables we'd have different teeth.

 

[Vejai]

#plantlivesmatter

 

[czxqa]

Wrong. You're selectively reading research and literature funded by the meat and dairy industry. I suggest you open your eyes to the full spectrum of research. As a doctor and a biochemist, I speak from a position of knowledge, as does the President of the American College of Cardiology:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/ct-met-vegan-cardiologist-20140817-story.html

I'm not going to argue with you. I'm also not going to bother reading internet propaganda. What I will do is continue to listen to the excellent advice I received from all my doctors and the nutritionist at Hahnemann, a number of whom I actually spoke to in some detail about a vegan diet since my oldest child was going through a vegan phase at the time.

By the way, if you go back and read your own posts in this thread you'll see why people find many vegans annoying. Arrogant, judgemental, preachy, argumentative and overzealous. You have managed to hit most of the salient points.

 

[RutgersSam]

I'm not going to argue with you. I'm also not going to bother reading internet propaganda. What I will do is continue to listen to the excellent advice I received from all my doctors and the nutritionist at Hahnemann, a number of whom I actually spoke to in some detail about a vegan diet since my oldest child was going through a vegan phase at the time.

By the way, if you go back and read your own posts in this thread you'll see why people find many vegans annoying. Arrogant, judgemental, preachy, argumentative and overzealous. You have managed to hit most of the salient points.

Stop being so sensitive. Your diet is causing suffering to living beings .. it deserves to be criticized. And, in fact, most meat eaters demean and degrade vegetarians/vegans at every chance they get.

And most doctors and nutritionist are basing their advice on research conducted decades ago, which is what they were taught in school. Hahnemann, while a good clinical institution, isn't a top nutritional biochemistry research facility. Keep that in mind.

 

[Crazed_RU]

Various sources saying the same thing and my own experience. Being a (hobby) farmer you start to rub elbows with other farmers. You get newsletters and go online to certain blogs to see if anyone has a similar problems. It's well known common knowledge in farming circles. The general public isn't as informed. It's not like Perdue or Tyson are going to publicize what their farmers actually do.

Did you know fresh farm eggs can sit on the counter for up to 3 months as they have a protective membrane on them. The ones you buy in the store can't, since they're washed and bleached removing the coating. Also GMO plants are perfectly fine to eat. It's the insecticides they spray on them that make them dangerous. Monsanto's the company the US gov't seems to trust with our food supply, modified plants so Roundup their product can be sprayed to kill weeds and insects.

Well turns out no one really extensively studied Roundup. Now they are, France and California have already banned Roundup sales from local Garden centers. Early studies have shown some cancerous findings. There's a reason it kills bees, because it's not meant to be consumed. You really think they get rid of all the insecticide when produce is washed. What about what the plant consumes through the roots. Sorry but I don't trust a company with my food that got it's start by manufacturing Agent Orange. IMO it's going to turn out to be another big Tobacco case. I eat the crap as well, as everyone uses Monsanto's seed so they can have cheap weed and insect control.

These are definitely reasonable concerns and ones I do think about. The problem is I am not willing to pay $5 / lb for organic carrots, and I don't trust that the organic farming industry is not price gouging the public, just lime I don't trust the mass food producers.

 

[RU4Real]

Stop being so sensitive. Your diet is causing suffering to living beings .. it deserves to be criticized.

Shall we do a little background check on you and report back to the board with the various things for which YOU deserve to be criticized?

As @FanuSanu52 said last night - enough, already. We get it. You think you're superior to all of us lowly carnivores. So go away.

 

[RU848789]

As one of my friends always says, if these animals had large brains and opposable thumbs, they might be eating us.

There's no question that plant-based diets are more humane and far better for the environment (raising animals takes far more resources/energy) and probably healthier, but I just love meat too much to go that way.

 

[R1776U]

A Chernobyl cockroach, is what that looks like. <shudder>

the bugs are 6.99lb at shoprite next week.... best deal ever was 2.99lb for a thanksgiving special..but ya had to order a week in advance(SR in neptune).. ordered 4 but ended up with 5.... lobster, the new turkey, if that deal ever happens again

 

[miketd1]

I generally go with this.

It's easy to follow; plans are only as good as they are implemented.

 

[RU848789]

Stop being so sensitive. Your diet is causing suffering to living beings .. it deserves to be criticized. And, in fact, most meat eaters demean and degrade vegetarians/vegans at every chance they get.

And most doctors and nutritionist are basing their advice on research conducted decades ago, which is what they were taught in school. Hahnemann, while a good clinical institution, isn't a top nutritional biochemistry research facility. Keep that in mind.

As I said in my post earlier, there's no question that plant-based diets are more humane, much better environmentally, and likely healthier, but humans are and always have been omnivores, so it's not easy for many, including me, to give up meat.

Also, the criticism goes both ways. I see some pretty harsh criticism actually coming from vegans towards meat eaters, too. I have a friend who regularly posts screeds on FB excoriating meat eaters (and even people who consume dairy products) as perpetrators of the animal holocaust, comparing us to the Nazis. A little over the top in my book.

 

[miketd1]

As I said in my post earlier, there's no question that plant-based diets are more humane, much better environmentally, and likely healthier, but humans are and always have been omnivores, so it's not easy for many, including me, to give up meat.

Some of the folks picking our favorite fruits would probably disagree with that statement, but I understand the point you were making.

 

[RutgersSam]

As I said in my post earlier, there's no question that plant-based diets are more humane, much better environmentally, and likely healthier, but humans are and always have been omnivores, so it's not easy for many, including me, to give up meat.

Also, the criticism goes both ways. I see some pretty harsh criticism actually coming from vegans towards meat eaters, too. I have a friend who regularly posts screeds on FB excoriating meat eaters (and even people who consume dairy products) as perpetrators of the animal holocaust, comparing us to the Nazis. A little over the top in my book.

Agreed. Some vegans are much too extreme. But we have to deal with many more extreme omnivores. You have the majority so extremist meat eaters are simply more common and, as a result, more vocal. Take for instance the girl from Texas who posted Facebook messages of her trophy kills of endangered African wildlife.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...side-rare-big-game-hunts-African-safaris.html

 

[FanuSanu52]

Agreed. Some vegans are much too extreme. But we have to deal with many more extreme omnivores. You have the majority so extremist meat eaters are simply more common and, as a result, more vocal. Take for instance the girl from Texas who posted Facebook messages of her trophy kills of endangered African wildlife.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...side-rare-big-game-hunts-African-safaris.html

Like you?

Your example isn't at all related to anything you've been discussing in this thread; illegal poaching =/= meat eating.

I think meat eaters would happily lay off the vegan crowd if they'd ever learn to shut up and go away, especially when prompted multiple times. Seriously, we've heard everything you had to say and we still don't care. Ribeye Friday, baby!

 

[RutgersSam]

Like you?

Your example isn't at all related to anything you've been discussing in this thread; illegal poaching =/= meat eating.

I think meat eaters would happily lay off the vegan crowd if they'd ever learn to shut up and go away, especially when prompted multiple times. Seriously, we've heard everything you had to say and we still don't care. Ribeye Friday, baby!

Ya take yourself for example.. A pompous and braggadocios post claiming to represent an entire group of people. An unexamined life isn't worth living junior.

 

[beaced]

CHICKEN? If nobody responded in this manner let me be the first. "NOBODY CALLS ME CHICKEN"!!!

 

[FanuSanu52]

Ya take yourself for example.. A pompous and braggadocios post claiming to represent an entire group of people. An unexamined life isn't worth living junior.

You would think a bestower of such deep wisdom would comprehend the term "I think" I only spoke for myself, gramps.

 

[RutgersSam]

You would think a bestower of such deep wisdom would comprehend the term "I think" I only spoke for myself, gramps.

Hah. You also presumptively used the term "we've." That's what I was referring to.

 

[mildone]

As I said in my post earlier, there's no question that plant-based diets are more humane, much better environmentally, and likely healthier, but humans are and always have been omnivores, so it's not easy for many, including me, to give up meat.

Also, the criticism goes both ways. I see some pretty harsh criticism actually coming from vegans towards meat eaters, too. I have a friend who regularly posts screeds on FB excoriating meat eaters (and even people who consume dairy products) as perpetrators of the animal holocaust, comparing us to the Nazis. A little over the top in my book.

Is you're vegan friend chubby? Is this friend someone I know?

I like to eat things that eat veggies. We could grill his ass up, have a party. Veggies aren't food. They're what food eats.

I'm just saying.