OT- Commercial complaining about a test. What is it about?

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Well, FUNDING is NOT the problem:

The grand total spent by and on behalf of some districts can seem staggering. The total cost of education in Newark, the state's largest district, with nearly 43,000 students, was $1.04 billion. Jersey City, Paterson and Elizabeth all spent more than $500 million.

http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/14/05/15/per-pupil-school-spending/

Now compare that to one of the wealthiest Counties in NJ:
http://www.njspotlight.com/tables/csg14/#/c02/HUNTERDON

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_locations_by_per_capita_income

 

[RU1977]

Is Christie responsible for requiring these tests?

 

[RC1991]

zwick99 why do you keep bringing up inner city schools, too much diversity, etc. The issue is that this particular test (the PARCC) is poorly designed no matter who it's administer to without regard for ethnic or economic diversity. The test, implementation, associated materials, and required infrastructure was all done to benefit the company that our state and federal gov't climbed into bed with and to likely line their pockets as well....and this is without regard to liberals, conservatives, libertarians or anyone else. Inner city schools and the issues there are another matter entirely and it's going to take a lot more to fix that issue than just copying another countries educational system....because the one thing that I do agree with you on is the fact that in those areas parents often don't put an emphasis on the importance of education and how that can lead to success. That has nothing to do with testing or the issues most of us have raised about this particular exam. You seem a bit too dense to get it.

PS If we were to copy any other educational system I would copy Singapore's or Japan's....I think it would work very well for those kids whose parents are involved in their educations and push them to work hard...not so much if they are not.

 

[mdk01]

6-8th graders right now have 13 days of testing during a 120 day school year between PARCC and NJASK/HSPA, standardized testing that is meaningless to their grade. Throw in another assessment each week for their actual letter grade, and that's 37 days spent on evaluations. Now throw in "test prep" time - which will grow in proportion to how much impact these tests have on school funding and teacher evaluations. You could be looking at close to half of the days of the year set aside for evaluations or test preparation. That's excessive.

And that's before any discussion about how accurately any of these tests measure anything meaningful.

Tests do a great job at one thing - making money for the companies that administer them.

A 120 day school year?

 

[RC1991]

A 120 day school year?

I think he meant a 180 day school year....but he makes a good point in that between the days of testing and the other 1/2 days in which minimal work gets done (at least in elementary schools) it cuts into a significant amount of instructional time. In our district (Woodbridge Twp). we had 10 days of testing for elementary school students between PARCC and NJASK (for science) and then 13 half days. That's a loss of 23 (12.7%) of instructional days in a 180 day school year. I think next year it may be more as the number of 1/2 days has increased due to our school boards ineptness along with the superintendent in coming up with the most efficient calendar.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

The tests might be poorly designed and maybe we should get rid of them but that is just the tiny tip of the iceberg when it comes to pre-college education in the US.

The tests are just a drop in a massive ocean. Test or no test won't make that big of a difference when the whole system needs an overhaul.

 

[RUChoppin]

Why were the inner city schools failing BEFORE testing?

I have an offer. YOU pick ANY country's education system you want and we will copy it exactly.

If we eliminate the testing will you agree to take ownership for all future results and stop making excuses?

Ps. Copying means copying everything. That includes cutting spending if the country you pick spends less.

Did you mean to reply to me or someone else? Not sure where the "pick any country's education system" thing came from, or the inner city thing, or the connection between "testing" and "results". I was pointing out how much time is spent doing testing/evaluation/prep - which is excessive.

But, to go along with your premise of "why were the inner city schools failing before testing" - it's the same laundry list of reasons why they're failing now. Increased testing has done nothing to improve them.

As to copying another country's educational system exactly, that makes no sense. It makes as little sense as expecting the same lesson plan to work in Short Hills and Irvington. Educational plans have to be adapted to the environment on the ground; there is no one-size-fits-all. And just as the best-fertilized plants will wither without water, so too will the best-taught students struggle if their family/social environments don't/can't support them.

 

[zwick99]

zwick99 why do you keep bringing up inner city schools, too much diversity, etc. The issue is that this particular test (the PARCC) is poorly designed no matter who it's administer to without regard for ethnic or economic diversity. The test, implementation, associated materials, and required infrastructure was all done to benefit the company that our state and federal gov't climbed into bed with and to likely line their pockets as well....and this is without regard to liberals, conservatives, libertarians or anyone else. Inner city schools and the issues there are another matter entirely and it's going to take a lot more to fix that issue than just copying another countries educational system....because the one thing that I do agree with you on is the fact that in those areas parents often don't put an emphasis on the importance of education and how that can lead to success. That has nothing to do with testing or the issues most of us have raised about this particular exam. You seem a bit too dense to get it.

PS If we were to copy any other educational system I would copy Singapore's or Japan's....I think it would work very well for those kids whose parents are involved in their educations and push them to work hard...not so much if they are not.

The point you are missing is the inner city kids were FAILING before the standardized tests and they are going to fail after the standardized tests.

I have already suggested if you want to get rid of the testing then go ahead. YOu can pick any system you want as long as you stop making excuses and take full responsibility for the results.

OK. Let's copy Japan. They spend less on education. The kids grow up in two parent homes and they study. I like how Japan makes the kids clean the schools and they have very few janitors.

Liberals want to copy successful results but they never want to copy the work or sacrifice that went into the success.


PS. Asians who come to the uSA are very successful with our schools and standardized testing. How do you explain?

 

[zwick99]

Did you mean to reply to me or someone else? Not sure where the "pick any country's education system" thing came from, or the inner city thing, or the connection between "testing" and "results". I was pointing out how much time is spent doing testing/evaluation/prep - which is excessive.

But, to go along with your premise of "why were the inner city schools failing before testing" - it's the same laundry list of reasons why they're failing now. Increased testing has done nothing to improve them.

As to copying another country's educational system exactly, that makes no sense. It makes as little sense as expecting the same lesson plan to work in Short Hills and Irvington. Educational plans have to be adapted to the environment on the ground; there is no one-size-fits-all. And just as the best-fertilized plants will wither without water, so too will the best-taught students struggle if their family/social environments don't/can't support them.

Increased testing did nothing to hurt those schools either. They were failing BEFORE the testing. I even suggested we eliminate the testing as long as you agree to stop making excuses and take full responsibility for all future results. Do you think the violent inner city kids from broken homes are suddenly going to be great students when we get rid of testing?

The problem with the inner city schools is "NO size fits all." They fail with EVERY modification. Obama even said the government can't replace parents. It is funny how liberals refuse to hold parents accountable. I guess you don't want to offend your base.

YOu are crying about the testing. If we let you pick any system you want you will be back in a few years complaining about the same kids failing for another reason. This bs has been going on for 60 years. Obama can't redistribute brains. "No" what im sayin?

 

[RUChoppin]

I think he meant a 180 day school year....but he makes a good point in that between the days of testing and the other 1/2 days in which minimal work gets done (at least in elementary schools) it cuts into a significant amount of instructional time. In our district (Woodbridge Twp). we had 10 days of testing for elementary school students between PARCC and NJASK (for science) and then 13 half days. That's a loss of 23 (12.7%) of instructional days in a 180 day school year. I think next year it may be more as the number of 1/2 days has increased due to our school boards ineptness along with the superintendent in coming up with the most efficient calendar.

Yes, 180 not 120. Not sure how my brain got to 120.

At a test a week, that works out to 40 assessments (4/month for 10 months, or 10/quarter... roughly, depending on teacher/curriculum), and another 13 days of standardized testing. So 53 days of evaluations, plus prep time (which can ramp very quickly if schools feel the need to boost scores).

 

[RUChoppin]

Increased testing did nothing to hurt those schools either. They were failing BEFORE the testing. I even suggested we eliminate the testing as long as you agree to stop making excuses and take full responsibility for all future results. Do you think the violent inner city kids from broken homes are suddenly going to be great students when we get rid of testing?

I don't know what "stop making excuses and take full responsibility for all future results" means. Can you elaborate?

Also not sure where you think I've said removing testing will suddenly make kids great students.

 

[RUChoppin]

TED Talk on the "Toxic Culture of Education" for those interested.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

My son is in 2nd grade.

Spelling test every Friday.

Math test roughly every 7th school day.

Science or Social Studies test roughly every 10th school day.

2 Study Island (computer assignments which are DIRECT preparation for PARCC) completed at home and due every second Monday.

Raz Kids online reading program begins in September at level "A" for their grade. They are STRONGLY encouraged to get to level "Z" by end of school year. That would equate to about 7 online books (books range anywhere from 5 paragraphs to 3 pages) and the corresponding 5 question quiz per week.

Throw in special projects in science (they did dinosaurs this year) and social studies (project on Ellis Island and Immigration and their own heritage) and kids are evaluated PLENTY--without PARCC.

Throw in classroom time dedicated to "keyboarding" and "test taking tips" and actual instruction time is reduced even more.

 

[SkilletHead2]

I think the blowback on PARCC will lead to a real swing back away from so much time spent testing. Extended testing is not something advocated necessarily by testing experts (many are strongly opposed to it, including yours truly), but mostly from political pressure.

The move toward doing the testing on computers will, I think, ultimately be a good thing, and in ten years, we'll wonder why we were so upset over it "back in the day."

Question was posed about automated scoring of essay tests. It is a real phenomenon, and one that has a startling amount of evidence supporting it's efficacy. I recently wrote a review of a major book on the topic. I went into reading the book pretty skeptical, but came out convinced that this will become S.O.P. down the road. It is amazing (close to scary) how well computers can score essays. To me, the best model would be to have each essay scored by a human and by a computer, and then take a close look if the two disagree.

 

[RobertG]

Skillet,

Are the scoring algorithms generic or are they developed based on the topic?

 

[SkilletHead2]

Skillet,

Are the scoring algorithms generic or are they developed based on the topic?

Well, both, actually. There are a lot of programs out there, and some are generic and others are based on the topic. The more advanced ones actually learn (in a matter of speaking) by being fed sample responses that are marked.

To get a very rough idea of this, turn the grammar checker on in a document you've written. You can see that the computer can do a decent job of catching noun/verb disagreements, number disagreements, run-on sentences, etc. So it can generate a rough idea of how well constructed the essay is. Then, it can shift to words and word phrases that are appropriate.

If you look up natural language processing (wikipedia will do), you'll get a better idea of what is happening there. For example, there is a cool thing they use also called "colloquies." A colloquy is a word pair or short phrase that appears more often than any two or three word phrase might be expected to appear. "Scoring algorithms" is an example of a colloquy. Consider: we like strong tea and powerful computers, but we don't like powerful tea and strong computers. Two colloquies versus two phrases that aren't really a natural part of English.

If you are clever, you could still write nonsense that would get a good score from a computer, but it's gotten to the point where you really have to be clever to do so. As a measurement person, the thing I like about computer-based essay scoring is that it doesn't matter whether the marker agrees with your position or not, or likes your handwriting (if the test is initially hand-written -- we know that quality of handwriting affects scoring) or whether the marker has just had it on a Friday afternoon and is giving you grade X no matter what you've written. That's why a balance between a neutral computer, and a human scorer (who may rightly see brilliance in something the computer could miss "To be or not to be") would be how I would want my work scored. And if the essay is written on computer, saves a lot of time and effort.

Also, I might mention that computer-assisted feedback is highly effective in helping kids improve their work in a course. This research was carried out in an unnamed, large, East Coast public university that recently just missed on two highly ranked QBs but hopefully will get a commitment out a third QB, who while not as highly ranked, looks damn good to me on tape.

 

[50 yd line RR]

Pearson Education is making billions of dollars off these standardized tests and advertise on Craig's list for people to correct them.They just did a piece on last week tonight with john Oliver. check it out on youtube. Teachers are just protecting their interests.

 

[Colonel Henry]

That's an interesting idea, but the opposite is actually the truth. The kids who refuse in my district (there is no opt-out in NJ, only refusing) are the kids who come from the wealthiest homes. Not surprisingly, these are the kids who are the highest performers. The kids from lower earning households don't refuse because their parents don't know what the hell is happening in their kids school.

 

[RUJohnny99]

My son is in 2nd grade.

Spelling test every Friday.

Math test roughly every 7th school day.

Science or Social Studies test roughly every 10th school day.

2 Study Island (computer assignments which are DIRECT preparation for PARCC) completed at home and due every second Monday.

Raz Kids online reading program begins in September at level "A" for their grade. They are STRONGLY encouraged to get to level "Z" by end of school year. That would equate to about 7 online books (books range anywhere from 5 paragraphs to 3 pages) and the corresponding 5 question quiz per week.

Throw in special projects in science (they did dinosaurs this year) and social studies (project on Ellis Island and Immigration and their own heritage) and kids are evaluated PLENTY--without PARCC.

Throw in classroom time dedicated to "keyboarding" and "test taking tips" and actual instruction time is reduced even more.

My kids were in that same classroom 5 years ago, before PARCC, and had the same rigorous curriculum. It's not like the school district suddenly said "hey, we need to give these kids tougher than state mandates". It's been that way for at least 25 years. Which is why our schools consistently produce top students and the top 10-20 of our high school are all Ivy League material.

My youngest's religious school uses Study Island to teach him Hebrew & bible stories. Not in some grand conspiracy to train him for the PARCC, but because it's an effective & engaging teaching method.

The fact is, the opt out movement in our town is being spearheaded by Staten Island housewife transplants who are used to whatever participation trophies they hand out on that trash heap. Rather than peel their kids away from Minecraft for an hour or two to focus on their schoolwork, they are trying to drive the entire system down.

The best step for these housewives is "opting out" of public school entirely so that their kids are not hampering the progress of the kids who CAN handle the rigors of our public schools.

 

[derleider]

Pearson Education is making billions of dollars off these standardized tests and advertise on Craig's list for people to correct them.They just did a piece on last week tonight with john Oliver. check it out on youtube. Teachers are just protecting their interests.

It doesnt take geniuses to score elementary or even high school exams (Im not sure how high they test). Any college grad should be able to do it. They give you the test question, they give you the scoring rubric, they give you a bunch of examples, and a bunch of selected practice examples. They check your work against other scorers. Its the same as any standardized test that would have been given in the past that wasn't Scantron.

Teachers might want to pretend that it does - that somehow that the scorers arent them means that they arent going to do it right - but thats not really true. For one - Pearson (and all of the test scoring companies) prefer teachers as scorers. For another, as I said, its just not that hard given the constraints (limited number of questions, graded over and over again, with plenty of examples and ability to reach out to Pearson HQ if you have a real question about what score to give).

But they have probably millions of tests to score. They need an army of scorers for a few months, and Craigslist is just a good a way as any to find them.

Note: I am one of those scorers (as I think Ive mentioned). I would recommend it as easy (tedious for sure, but easy, do it from your couch) money for any college grad that doesn't have a full time job or needs some extra dough (obviously too late this year - but if you know anyone, let them know).

 

[PhilaPhans]

Rather than peel their kids away from Minecraft for an hour or two to focus on their schoolwork

Off topic for a second, what the hell is it that people see in this game? It looks completely mind-numbingly boring.

 

[50 yd line RR]

Der, did you watch that piece by John Oliver? The system is just a money maker for the testing companies.
Should there be standardized tests? absolutely,but this is out of control.

 

[derleider]

Der, did you watch that piece by John Oliver? The system is just a money maker for the testing companies.
Should there be standardized tests? absolutely,but this is out of control.

No i didnt. And Im not making a claim that its not a big money maker for Pearson, or that its even necessary. But as I said - these tests existed before. This isnt new. At least since NCLB states have had to do this stuff. Someone was writing and scoring those exams for each state. That didnt suddenly happen because PARCC came along.

 

[zwick99]

Pearson Education is making billions of dollars off these standardized tests and advertise on Craig's list for people to correct them.They just did a piece on last week tonight with john Oliver. check it out on youtube. Teachers are just protecting their interests.

Teacher's unions make more.

 

[PhilaPhans]

Teacher's unions make more.

Huh?

 

[zwick99]

Did you mean to reply to me or someone else? Not sure where the "pick any country's education system" thing came from, or the inner city thing, or the connection between "testing" and "results". I was pointing out how much time is spent doing testing/evaluation/prep - which is excessive.

But, to go along with your premise of "why were the inner city schools failing before testing" - it's the same laundry list of reasons why they're failing now. Increased testing has done nothing to improve them.

As to copying another country's educational system exactly, that makes no sense. It makes as little sense as expecting the same lesson plan to work in Short Hills and Irvington. Educational plans have to be adapted to the environment on the ground; there is no one-size-fits-all. And just as the best-fertilized plants will wither without water, so too will the best-taught students struggle if their family/social environments don't/can't support them.

No. The laundry list changes every few years and we address the issues and the same people still fail. The Asians succeed with the same schools . Asians don't make excuses when their NBA dreams don't happen.

 

[RUChoppin]

No. The laundry list changes every few years and we address the issues and the same people still fail. The Asians succeed with the same schools . Asians don't make excuses when their NBA dreams don't happen.

The laundry list has been the largely the same since I stopped teaching over a decade ago. The time spent in a classroom setting is a single factor among many that determine academic success - tweaking that one element without addressing the non-academic factors yields little improvement. The best teacher and educational plan for student A may be an utter train wreck for student B, and vice versa, depending on the external factors present for each of those students. Alternatively, Student A may succeed despite the worst possible teacher/educational plan for his/her needs, while Student B may fail despite the best possible teacher/educational plan for his/her needs.

That is true with regard to success/failure on a standardized assessment, or success/failure in their life/job/career goals.

We do not "address the issues" as you say. We largely ignore them. We address the classroom setting - how can we "fix" teachers, or "fix" the curriculum, or "fix" the textbooks or technology or whatever. We don't address the challenges these students face outside the classroom hardly at all.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Wait a minute. We're taking John Oliver as if it's actually the news? I love John Oliver, but folks, it's a comedy show. What he said in that bit, which was hilarious, was about half truth, half exaggeration, and a lot of leaving out critical info. I don't mind that at all for the sake of a good bit, but we shouldn't be citing it as if it were fact.

 

[RUJohnny99]

Wait a minute. We're taking John Oliver as if it's actually the news? I love John Oliver, but folks, it's a comedy show. What he said in that bit, which was hilarious, was about half truth, half exaggeration, and a lot of leaving out critical info. I don't mind that at all for the sake of a good bit, but we shouldn't be citing it as if it were fact.

Welcome to what passes as a news source these days.

 

[50 yd line RR]

yea I know but there is more truth in what he says ,and satirists like john Stewart than you will find on fox or msnbc.
It is what it is.Everyone gets a laugh and nothing changes.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

My kids were in that same classroom 5 years ago, before PARCC, and had the same rigorous curriculum. It's not like the school district suddenly said "hey, we need to give these kids tougher than state mandates". It's been that way for at least 25 years. Which is why our schools consistently produce top students and the top 10-20 of our high school are all Ivy League material.

My youngest's religious school uses Study Island to teach him Hebrew & bible stories. Not in some grand conspiracy to train him for the PARCC, but because it's an effective & engaging teaching method.

The fact is, the opt out movement in our town is being spearheaded by Staten Island housewife transplants who are used to whatever participation trophies they hand out on that trash heap. Rather than peel their kids away from Minecraft for an hour or two to focus on their schoolwork, they are trying to drive the entire system down.

The best step for these housewives is "opting out" of public school entirely so that their kids are not hampering the progress of the kids who CAN handle the rigors of our public schools.

You know me pretty well. I don't mind "rigor." Did you kids get language instruction? from a human being? Cause mine doesn't. He received a Rosetta Stone ID and a promise for foreign language instruction when he gets to MEMS. Did your kids get their science class skipped once a week to go take keyboarding? Mine does. I have no issue with Study Island or the rest. Personally, I think reading real paper books is preferable, but whadda I know about educating someone.

Those 10-20 kids would be Ivy material with or without a battery of standardized tests.

I know who the woman is who is spearheading the opt-out movement in town. She is from Queens and a former manager at Merrill. Doesn't strike me as an everyone gets a trophy kinda gal. Another woman heavily involved is from Sayreville; born and raised. All of which is largely irrelevant. Neither of them are advocating for a lessening of standards or even the abolition of standardized tests. They are opposed to THIS curriculum (Common Core) and THIS test (PARCC). And frankly, based on 2 years of the curriculum, I agree with them. And so do several educators I trust.

My point, arrived at independently of any SI transplants, is that a focus on standardized testing, at these grade levels, is dumb. It's ridiculously expensive. And it takes class time away from more important things.

At SPP we were required to take 2 standardized tests in 4 years. One freshman year, which I don't recall the name and the PSAT soph year. I did fine without having to take any others.

And your kids will do fine without having to take PARCC too.

 

[zwick99]

Huh?

It is not rcoek

The laundry list has been the largely the same since I stopped teaching over a decade ago. The time spent in a classroom setting is a single factor among many that determine academic success - tweaking that one element without addressing the non-academic factors yields little improvement. The best teacher and educational plan for student A may be an utter train wreck for student B, and vice versa, depending on the external factors present for each of those students. Alternatively, Student A may succeed despite the worst possible teacher/educational plan for his/her needs, while Student B may fail despite the best possible teacher/educational plan for his/her needs.

That is true with regard to success/failure on a standardized assessment, or success/failure in their life/job/career goals.

We do not "address the issues" as you say. We largely ignore them. We address the classroom setting - how can we "fix" teachers, or "fix" the curriculum, or "fix" the textbooks or technology or whatever. We don't address the challenges these students face outside the classroom hardly at all.

It is a NEVER ending list of excuses for the liberals.

We addressed EVERY issue and you still fail. THe more we do for the lower class the less they do for themselves.



Here is your list:
1. Opportunities. WE gave you more opportunities.
2. Mo funding. WE gave you MORE Money many times over. USA second in the world in spending per student. Pretty impressive since 47% pay no income taxes.
3. Busing.
4. Mo inner city teachers.
5. Mo funding.
6. Mo inner city administrators.
7. Mo funding.
8. Mo free programs.
9. Free lunch.
10. Mo funding.
11. Free breakfast.
12. Mo funding.
13. Testing.
14. Eliminate the testing.

We pretty much tried ALL your suggestions and addressed EVERY complaint and you still fail. Now that Obama is phasing out some of the testing what will be your new excuse? YOu complain about testing and Obama is cutting the testing. Your kids will still fail and the Asians will still be successful in the same schools.

It is no surprise that you are a teacher. You are part of the problem. YOur only goal is extracting as much money as possible out of the taxpayers and doing as little work possible.

 

[PSU_Nut]

Less diversity in Europe. They don't need a dozen full time school cops in ONE school like they do in Philly or Camden. Europe also spends less on education.

The real reason is because they don't fund extra curricular activities like we do in the United States. There are no school sports teams or drama clubs like in the US. You don't see school in Europe spending millions on sports complex for high schools. They also don't spend as much money transporting students. They don't have large area masses to cover for students.

If you think full time school cops are only in urban areas you are a fool. Rural and Suburban districts have them also.

 

[robcac26]

Very generally speaking, Common Core was the "answer" to the never ending "problem" of our youngsters testing much lower than their Asian peers at the college years. There is a school of thought that our kids are not creative thinkers because so much of early elementary education is by rote. Memorize these math facts. Memorize these phonics sounds. Memorize these spelling rules. Common Core (and its more than just math) seeks to make them creative thinkers by teaching them strategic ways to approach problem solving.

Take a simple math problem...

38+54

All of us here--over the age of 14..lol--would say, 8+4=12, carry the one, etc.

They are now taught to group the numbers...so they round 38 up to 40 and 54 up to 60, and then count down to get the "difference." In theory, this allows them to have a strategy to deal with much larger and complex problems as they progress.

This is exactly what I was taught in fourth or fifth grade in the 90s. I don't see what is so new and controversial about this. They taught us the "carry the one" method in first or second grade, and then a few years later they taught us this method so that we can do the math in our head. Apparently not everybody learned this though--I was recently playing darts with a couple buddies that went to elementary schools in the same town as mine and they couldn't understand how I was calculating our scores so much quicker than they were and I had to explain that it is faster if you just round the numbers and subtract the difference. It is clearly the better way to do math in your head, I don't understand all the outrage about it.

 

[RUChoppin]

It is not rcoek


It is a NEVER ending list of excuses for the liberals.

We addressed EVERY issue and you still fail. THe more we do for the lower class the less they do for themselves.



Here is your list:
1. Opportunities. WE gave you more opportunities.
2. Mo funding. WE gave you MORE Money many times over. USA second in the world in spending per student. Pretty impressive since 47% pay no income taxes.
3. Busing.
4. Mo inner city teachers.
5. Mo funding.
6. Mo inner city administrators.
7. Mo funding.
8. Mo free programs.
9. Free lunch.
10. Mo funding.
11. Free breakfast.
12. Mo funding.
13. Testing.
14. Eliminate the testing.

We pretty much tried ALL your suggestions and addressed EVERY complaint and you still fail. Now that Obama is phasing out some of the testing what will be your new excuse? YOu complain about testing and Obama is cutting the testing. Your kids will still fail and the Asians will still be successful in the same schools.

It is no surprise that you are a teacher. You are part of the problem. YOur only goal is extracting as much money as possible out of the taxpayers and doing as little work possible.

Wow. Anger much?

*Was* a teacher. Was. You have reading comprehension problems, which makes sense given your disdain for the educational system. I am now doing corporate consulting for twice the money and fewer hours spent working (and much less stress) - so, I'm pretty happy to have left teaching 11 years ago now.

Not sure where any of this became "all [my] suggestions", or where you've addressed "every" complaint. You seem to enjoy dealing in absolutes and hyperbole.

I'm not going to run down your list of blithering nonsense point by point. As Mark Twain said, never argue with a fool because bystanders won't be able to tell the difference. It's also clear that nothing anyone says will sway you in any direction, so to the troll dungeon/ignore list you go.

 

[red sail]

test

 

[zwick99]

Wow. Anger much?

*Was* a teacher. Was. You have reading comprehension problems, which makes sense given your disdain for the educational system. I am now doing corporate consulting for twice the money and fewer hours spent working (and much less stress) - so, I'm pretty happy to have left teaching 11 years ago now.

Not sure where any of this became "all [my] suggestions", or where you've addressed "every" complaint. You seem to enjoy dealing in absolutes and hyperbole.

I'm not going to run down your list of blithering nonsense point by point. As Mark Twain said, never argue with a fool because bystanders won't be able to tell the difference. It's also clear that nothing anyone says will sway you in any direction, so to the troll dungeon/ignore list you go.

Give use YOUR laundry list and tell us whihc isseu was not addressed!

YOu are crying about testing and Obama is already making changes. The inner city problem students will still fail and they will have another excuse in a few years.

 

[zwick99]

This is exactly what I was taught in fourth or fifth grade in the 90s. I don't see what is so new and controversial about this. They taught us the "carry the one" method in first or second grade, and then a few years later they taught us this method so that we can do the math in our head. Apparently not everybody learned this though--I was recently playing darts with a couple buddies that went to elementary schools in the same town as mine and they couldn't understand how I was calculating our scores so much quicker than they were and I had to explain that it is faster if you just round the numbers and subtract the difference. It is clearly the better way to do math in your head, I don't understand all the outrage about it.

Some people just need excuses for their failures.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Off topic for a second, what the hell is it that people see in this game? It looks completely mind-numbingly boring.

Minecraft is very open-ended and creative. Its playing with building blocks in "creative mode". Much better than playing some dumbed-down shooter on rails.. ("on rails" means the game really doesn't let you players control the outcome.. you have to mash keys or buttons in the right order and the game then allows you to proceed). ids actually have to use their imaginations playing Minecraft.