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OT: Consequences of Corona - Americans leave large cities for suburban areas and rural towns

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It's not because there are empty homes though/lack of demand (at least not in the area immediately around NYC). The composition of cities has changed from all working class with a lot of single room rentals, etc at the peak to something else.

Again your 'small amount of people' is the issue. There is not a standard by which a 'small amount of people' have chosen to live in the urban areas surrounding Manhattan.
Definitely a small amount of people. Most people in the state want to live elsewhere. Why do you think COAH housing is such a hot topic with sky high demand? Working class families are disparate to get out and move to places with better schools and lower crime.
 
Some of those residences in the areas around Princeton U are being sought by parents of Foreign Nationals . People with big money do it all the time .

And they pushed up prices in Manhattan and Brooklyn before this all happened. Now that's gone.
 
And they pushed up prices in Manhattan and Brooklyn before this all happened. Now that's gone.
Who is this “they” ? Say it ... if you refer to foreign Nationals ... those in Princeton are from Asian nations... same at Cal Berkeley .
 
Definitely a small amount of people. Most people in the state want to live elsewhere. Why do you think COAH housing is such a hot topic with sky high demand? Working class families are disparate to get out and move to places with better schools and lower crime.
I guess I'm confused. If it's a small amount of people, and there is a big old state to accommodate them all, why do they live where they do in the more expensive part that they don't want to live in instead of the cheaper area they do want to live?

You'd think there would be plenty of supply of housing from all the people who left for where they really wanted to be.

8m people or so live in NYC and surrounding urban areas, that's a lot of people living in expensive places when they apparently would rather not.
 
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Who is this “they” ? Say it ... if you refer to foreign Nationals ... those in Princeton are from Asian nations... same at Cal Berkeley .

"They" with respect to NYC: Asians, Russians and Saudis
 
Relax and enjoy!
FLyFIshMontana.jpg
Where is the LOVE button for this picture ?
 
"They" with respect to NYC: Asians, Russians and Saudis
Why were you afraid to say that in the first place? It is cheaper for those wealthy parents to purchase a home and rent it out . Your child lives off campus ... you have a place to stay when visiting and it becomes a bed and breakfast for visiting parents of other students. There certainly are two working stiff families but you also see a newer phenomenon. Not only here in NJ but many other high priced
universities.
 
Why were you afraid to say that in the first place? It is cheaper for those wealthy parents to purchase a home and rent it out . Your child lives off campus ... you have a place to stay when visiting and it becomes a bed and breakfast for visiting parents of other students. There certainly are two working stiff families but you also see a newer phenomenon. Not only here in NJ but many other high priced
universities.
Sorry to break it to you, but your example of Berkeley isn't a "high priced university". And you need to show your work regarding the princeton area. Where's the numbers?
 
Sorry to break it to you, but your example of Berkeley isn't a "high priced university". And you need to show your work regarding the princeton area. Where's the numbers?
No , I didn’t say that but I know first hand this tidbit....foreign born families purchase homes in the Bay Area. As for not being high priced? Cal Berkeley tuition /Room and Board runs around 40 + k . .. Most kids can’t afford that price ....to me that is a high priced university... many in state and even out of state get a discount. Show my work? ... take it or leave it...It’s happening and is actually quite common in many states...
 
Why were you afraid to say that in the first place? It is cheaper for those wealthy parents to purchase a home and rent it out . Your child lives off campus ... you have a place to stay when visiting and it becomes a bed and breakfast for visiting parents of other students. There certainly are two working stiff families but you also see a newer phenomenon. Not only here in NJ but many other high priced
universities.

Afraid????????? Why didn't you specify which country the "Foreign Nationals" came from? And it isn't just parents of students involved. You have wealthy Russians wanting an asset that Putin can't take away on a whim. Chinese with the same worry about Xi. Saudi's worried about the wrath of the royal family. And if they have a kid at NYU or Columbia so much the better.
 
I guess I'm confused. If it's a small amount of people, and there is a big old state to accommodate them all, why do they live where they do in the more expensive part that they don't want to live in instead of the cheaper area they do want to live?

You'd think there would be plenty of supply of housing from all the people who left for where they really wanted to be.

8m people or so live in NYC and surrounding urban areas, that's a lot of people living in expensive places when they apparently would rather not.
Most parts of NJ cities are awful with super cheap housing costs. Sorry, your post makes no sense.
 
And you need to show your work regarding the princeton area. Where's the numbers?
Not sure what he is getting at. The vast majority of Princeton housing is owned and lived in by long-term residents. No doubt about this. Yes, I have heard and seen some examples of rich parents buying or renting a fancy home for their PU son or daughter, but this is a rounding error. FYI, the new'ish million dollar townhouses adjacent to Palmer Square is a common place for this.
 
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Most parts of NJ cities are awful with super cheap housing costs. Sorry, your post makes no sense.
I was talking the NYC area and cities in general, not just NJ cities (honestly NJ has no real cities of it's own outside of Newark, JC anyway and even those are barely cities.)

My post makes no sense, but your point is basically no one wants to live in cities in general, not just Paterson, yet cities are both crowded and expensive in many areas, which would seem to indicate that people do want to live there.

Edit: if your point is there are some crappy cities no one wants to live in, I agree, but that doesn't generalize any more than pointing out there are crappy suburbs and rural areas where no one wants to live as well.
 
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It's not just Montana. The Hudson Valley, Eastern Suffolk County, 495 and slightly farther out area outside Boston and probably Sussex in NJ have surging prices. Out of the city but close enough for the remote workers to come into the office a day or 2 a week. My sister was in the process of retiring and moving to New Hampshire when this started and by early April the interest in her Mass 495 home was surging. Closed in June and did better than they had hoped.
My sister in law deals with those coming out to the Hamptons. She has been killing it since this thing started.

Friends who own in Sussex have made their way down to my neck of the woods are getting their property ready up there for the upcoming surge.
 
I was talking the NYC area and cities in general, not just NJ cities (honestly NJ has no real cities of it's own outside of Newark, JC anyway and even those are barely cities.)

My post makes no sense, but your point is basically no one wants to live in cities in general, not just Paterson, yet cities are both crowded and expensive in many areas, which would seem to indicate that people do want to live there.

Edit: if your point is there are some crappy cities no one wants to live in, I agree, but that doesn't generalize any more than pointing out there are crappy suburbs and rural areas where no one wants to live as well.
The original article is about cities in general, but our posts have been solely about NJ (COAH is a unique issue of our state). So we agree that NJ cities = bad?
:)
 
The original article is about cities in general, but our posts have been solely about NJ (COAH is a unique issue of our state). So we agree that NJ cities = bad?
:)
My portion of the discussion has always been about the NYC and the immediate surrounding area, as I have mentioned repeatedly. Also, the NJ cities (such as they are 80k-100k is hardly an actual city) that aren't in that immediate area don't likely have a bunch of people now fleeing them, because they don't have a bunch of people who are in a position to pick up and move quickly, so they pretty obviously don't fit with either the original post or the discussion of migration away from cities in recent months.

If you want to argue that Paterson and Trenton are bad, sure, OK but that was never what I was talking about, and it certainly isn't relevant to a thread on 'Americans leave LARGE cities for suburban areas'.
 
My portion of the discussion has always been about the NYC and the immediate surrounding area, as I have mentioned repeatedly. Also, the NJ cities (such as they are 80k-100k is hardly an actual city) that aren't in that immediate area don't likely have a bunch of people now fleeing them, because they don't have a bunch of people who are in a position to pick up and move quickly, so they pretty obviously don't fit with either the original post or the discussion of migration away from cities in recent months.

If you want to argue that Paterson and Trenton are bad, sure, OK but that was never what I was talking about, and it certainly isn't relevant to a thread on 'Americans leave LARGE cities for suburban areas'.
You made a specific comment about my COAH post. This is where you jumped the shark. As mentioned before, COAH is a purely NJ issue.
 
You mean the post where I specifically referenced NYC and the surrounding area and not small NJ 'cities'? That one?
Yes, the one that didn't make any sense since I was talking about a specific NJ topic.
 
No, you talking about NJ specifically and mentioning COAH was an attempt to drag the conversation into an area we were not previously discussing, so I ignored it and stayed on topic.
Our topic was NJ from the beginning. I ignored your attempts to change it, but happy we agreed now.
:ThumbsUp
 
4 of my friends (who happen to be parents of newborns) have left NYC in the last 2 months... for other cities. They moved to Austin, TX, Portland, OR, Richmond, VA and Jacksonville, FL. Many leaving NYC are moving to more affordable cities, not the sticks. They’re doing it because the actual benefits and conveniences of living in a $3K a month apartment in NYC have been closed by Covid. They will continue to make a NYC salary in these places, might I add, by working remotely. The non-existent threats listed in this thread had nothing to do with it.
 
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Our topic was NJ from the beginning. I ignored your attempts to change it, but happy we agreed now.
:ThumbsUp
I just went back and re-read and ... well, no. Our topic was not NJ from the beginning, though you kept trying to drag it there.

Here is where this topic 'started' as far as I can tell:


You:
No not really.
Even if only a small amount of people want to live in JC, as long as the acceptable housing is less than this demand, prices will go up. Since cities normally have so many bad neighborhoods, this is likely the case with JC.

Me:

So your assertion is that people don't want to live in the area with the most people in the country? And those that do are actively picking to have a lower QoL at extreme expense because reasons?
Also, you know I picked to live here when I could afford to live just about anywhere in NJ/NYC if I wanted and I made the choice for QoL reasons (as did pretty much all of my neighbors). So, there's that.
Notice you using the generic 'cities' and me specifically referencing NYC?

Here's you trying to drag in NJ and me bringing it back to the area around NYC:


You:
The pop in NJ cities is still way below historic highs for a reason.
Me:
It's not because there are empty homes though/lack of demand (at least not in the area immediately around NYC). The composition of cities has changed from all working class with a lot of single room rentals, etc at the peak to something else.
Again your 'small amount of people' is the issue. There is not a standard by which a 'small amount of people' have chosen to live in the urban areas surrounding Manhattan
.​
 
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I just went back and re-read and ... well, no. Our topic was not NJ from the beginning, though you kept trying to drag it there.

Here is where this topic 'started' as far as I can tell:


You:
No not really.
Even if only a small amount of people want to live in JC, as long as the acceptable housing is less than this demand, prices will go up. Since cities normally have so many bad neighborhoods, this is likely the case with JC.

Me:

So your assertion is that people don't want to live in the area with the most people in the country? And those that do are actively picking to have a lower QoL at extreme expense because reasons?
Also, you know I picked to live here when I could afford to live just about anywhere in NJ/NYC if I wanted and I made the choice for QoL reasons (as did pretty much all of my neighbors). So, there's that.
Notice you using the generic 'cities' and me specifically referencing NYC?

Here's you trying to drag in NJ and me bringing it back to the area around NYC:


You:
The pop in NJ cities is still way below historic highs for a reason.
Me:
It's not because there are empty homes though/lack of demand (at least not in the area immediately around NYC). The composition of cities has changed from all working class with a lot of single room rentals, etc at the peak to something else.
Again your 'small amount of people' is the issue. There is not a standard by which a 'small amount of people' have chosen to live in the urban areas surrounding Manhattan
.​
Thanks for proving my point! I was focused on JC and NJ from the beginning. Appreciate it.
 
It's not just Montana. The Hudson Valley, Eastern Suffolk County, 495 and slightly farther out area outside Boston and probably Sussex in NJ have surging prices. Out of the city but close enough for the remote workers to come into the office a day or 2 a week. My sister was in the process of retiring and moving to New Hampshire when this started and by early April the interest in her Mass 495 home was surging. Closed in June and did better than they had hoped.
Stay out.
All the houses in NH have already been sold.
There are none available.
:)
 
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No , I didn’t say that but I know first hand this tidbit....foreign born families purchase homes in the Bay Area. As for not being high priced? Cal Berkeley tuition /Room and Board runs around 40 + k . .. Most kids can’t afford that price ....to me that is a high priced university... many in state and even out of state get a discount. Show my work? ... take it or leave it...It’s happening and is actually quite common in many states...
Yes, show your work. Otherwise it's just anecdotal. And everyone knows that this board is skeptical of anecdotal evidence.

Also - $40k is affordable in the grand scheme of college tuition. Rider is nearly $60k/yr with room and board. In-state RU with room and board is $28k.
 
Yes, show your work. Otherwise it's just anecdotal. And everyone knows that this board is skeptical of anecdotal evidence.

Also - $40k is affordable in the grand scheme of college tuition. Rider is nearly $60k/yr with room and board. In-state RU with room and board is $28k.
40 k is not affordable for probably 90 % Of families easily ...even with loans ( which are still non forgivable) ... 40k x 4 years ? You are are delusional. Here’s the point would you pay Rider U 60k per year? Unless you are going to be making 150 k after graduation to start then no. Rutgers 28 k is a bargain... So is Cal Berkeley at 45-60 k cheap? Show your proof...
 
40 k is not affordable for probably 90 % Of families easily ...even with loans ( which are still non forgivable) ... 40k x 4 years ? You are are delusional. Here’s the point would you pay Rider U 60k per year? Unless you are going to be making 150 k after graduation to start then no. Rutgers 28 k is a bargain... So is Cal Berkeley at 45-60 k cheap? Show your proof...

yes, it is affordable when comparing to the alternatives. if i'm a tip top out-of-state student and applying to colleges, if i'm applying to berkeley, i'm likely applying to stanford, Cal Tech, MIT, Northwestern, the ivies...so yea, when aiming at that level of school, 45k is more affordable than the alternatives.

but you're straying off topic. point is, you still haven't provided any data points or any proof of your assertion that it is rich foreigners buying up property just because and specificially in response to my comment about the princeton area. so the onus is still on you to provide that data to support your argument.
 
yes, it is affordable when comparing to the alternatives. if i'm a tip top out-of-state student and applying to colleges, if i'm applying to berkeley, i'm likely applying to stanford, Cal Tech, MIT, Northwestern, the ivies...so yea, when aiming at that level of school, 45k is more affordable than the alternatives.

but you're straying off topic. point is, you still haven't provided any data points or any proof of your assertion that it is rich foreigners buying up property just because and specificially in response to my comment about the princeton area. so the onus is still on you to provide that data to support your argument.
No that was not the original context of what you asked . You now are vascilating from Not a high priced university to what YOU consider affordable or inexpensive to an average American family of say 4 ... we already have seen the issue of student loan debt with worthless degrees ... degrees which pay ok $$$$ but not enough to buy homes, cars, food , clothes and pay all other bills... I made good to better money and paid for educational bills and my own... so then you are supportive of excessive student loan debt? Not many would agree with you especially in all I have read and seen ...
 
No that was not the original context of what you asked . You now are vascilating from Not a high priced university to what YOU consider affordable or inexpensive to an average American family of say 4 ... we already have seen the issue of student loan debt with worthless degrees ... degrees which pay ok $$$$ but not enough to buy homes, cars, food , clothes and pay all other bills... I made good to better money and paid for educational bills and my own... so then you are supportive of excessive student loan debt? Not many would agree with you especially in all I have read and seen ...
you're still not addressing your original assertion. which makes sense, since you have no evidence or data to support your point.

but yes, in total agreement that college is terribly expensive and the cost is ridiculous. but, when comparing apples to applies, 45k is more affordable than 60-80k.
 
you're still not addressing your original assertion. which makes sense, since you have no evidence or data to support your point.

but yes, in total agreement that college is terribly expensive and the cost is ridiculous. but, when comparing apples to applies, 45k is more affordable than 60-80k.
See you got caught... all YOU need to do is google it... tells you exactly through 2019 the cost.., to me 60-80 is not worth it unless you are in a field such as perhaps engineering, finance/ banking, medical /science and even those will not be an assured thing in the near future...
 
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