The evidence is the number of hospitalizations. We are at record levels.
OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more
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The evidence is the number of hospitalizations. We are at record levels.
Many people never went to the hospitals simply out of fears...now , since people have a somewhat better understanding of the virus and also, we now treat it much differently than back in the Spring. We also have better therapeutics in order to treat and get people back and out of the hospitals. You realize many people did not believe the severity of covid19.
Hospitals in numerous places are being overrun again, just like in spring. And that's before whatever spike that is on the way.
It's not productive to keep hammering away at "survival rates," "more testing" and "gov just wants to ruin my Thanksgiving." We've moved past those talking points and it's not even winter.
It's not productive to keep hammering away at "survival rates," "more testing" and "gov just wants to ruin my Thanksgiving." We've moved past those talking points and it's not even winter.
Yes and I've explained that to him and everyone else numerous times, but people don't want to listen. In NY/NJ and very hard hit areas during March/April, cases were likely 2-4X (or more) higher than reported, due to lack of testing and that's why I wish the media would mostly focus on hospitalizations and deaths, where the data are far more accurate and indicative of the extent of any outbreak.
Hospitalizations are at record levels in the US and skyrocketing still (and deaths will follow) - but they're only about 1/4 the level they were in April in NJ and 1/10th the level they were in April in NY - but they were far higher here, per capita than anywhere else, so while it's "relatively" better news for our area, they're still climbing fairly quickly, which is concerning. I just posted about all this on Tuesday, with graphics.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ase-ii-iii-trial-and-more.203426/post-4781937
Bac, you are a broken record on this stuff. The scientists and policy experts who look at the data, agree on what we need to do. There are some who don’t, they are the minority by a wide margin. I again point to Atlas who is over his skis and has been disowned by Stanford. But he’s not the only one.
And it’s common sense.
Let's try to get back to some COVID science. This is a fantastic deep scientific explanation of why Moderna's lipid nanoparticle formulation process for physicochemical "encapsulation" of the very labile (unstable) naked mRNA active part of their vaccine is more effective than Pfizer's, which is why the Moderna vaccine is stable at -20C/-4F vs. Pfizer's -70C/-94F. Worth a read - a key excerpt is below as is the graphic of what the complex mRNA-lipid nanoparticle looks like.
https://www.quora.com/q/coronavirus...BUhWXATIjHBTzizcqxko-AxTr9sQBbQTW2eG0uf6gceUU
The first question that we have to ask is why does Moderna have a -20C option vs. BioNTech? The various mRNA companies went into rather different directions based on their therapeutic area of focus. BioNTech was strictly focused on personalized cancer medicines and immunotherapies and in addition to their mRNA portfolio, they have a number of other therapeutic modalities like CAR-Ts and antibodies. Their target patient population was meant to be small and generally situated in controlled hospital environments where -70C storage was routine. Because of those circumstance, you can see why BioNTech never tried to work on a -20C option.
Moderna was different, they were much more focused on being a multi-modality mRNA therapeutics and since a large area of focus was on prophylactic vaccines, they needed a refrigerated option and they invested heavily in LNP development. At their June 2020 Science Day, Moderna presented extensively about their LNP screening efforts and remarked about its importance.[4] The key factor in LNP development is to have a ionizable lipid that is able to both gain a positive charge to interact with the negatively charged nucleic acid while having a neutral surface charge as a delivery vehicle.
https://www.quora.com/q/coronavirus...BUhWXATIjHBTzizcqxko-AxTr9sQBbQTW2eG0uf6gceUU
The first question that we have to ask is why does Moderna have a -20C option vs. BioNTech? The various mRNA companies went into rather different directions based on their therapeutic area of focus. BioNTech was strictly focused on personalized cancer medicines and immunotherapies and in addition to their mRNA portfolio, they have a number of other therapeutic modalities like CAR-Ts and antibodies. Their target patient population was meant to be small and generally situated in controlled hospital environments where -70C storage was routine. Because of those circumstance, you can see why BioNTech never tried to work on a -20C option.
Moderna was different, they were much more focused on being a multi-modality mRNA therapeutics and since a large area of focus was on prophylactic vaccines, they needed a refrigerated option and they invested heavily in LNP development. At their June 2020 Science Day, Moderna presented extensively about their LNP screening efforts and remarked about its importance.[4] The key factor in LNP development is to have a ionizable lipid that is able to both gain a positive charge to interact with the negatively charged nucleic acid while having a neutral surface charge as a delivery vehicle.
Please provide evidence. Your proposed explanation is suspect since area hospitals in the spring were at capacity. There were few if any ICU beds available. People in need of such medical assistance aren’t likely to stay at home.
I agree with your points, and if we were discussing other topics where the science and data were conclusive, you wouldn’t waste time trying to convince holdouts of their errors. However, those holdouts can act on their misplaced beliefs and increase the severity Of the outbreak. So, even if you only sway a few, it is worth the effort, in my opinion.
Let's try to get back to some COVID science. This is a fantastic deep scientific explanation of why Moderna's lipid nanoparticle formulation process for physicochemical "encapsulation" of the very labile (unstable) naked mRNA active part of their vaccine is more effective than Pfizer's, which is why the Moderna vaccine is stable at -20C/-4F vs. Pfizer's -70C/-94F. Worth a read - a key excerpt is below as is the graphic of what the complex mRNA-lipid nanoparticle looks like.
https://www.quora.com/q/coronavirus...BUhWXATIjHBTzizcqxko-AxTr9sQBbQTW2eG0uf6gceUU
The first question that we have to ask is why does Moderna have a -20C option vs. BioNTech? The various mRNA companies went into rather different directions based on their therapeutic area of focus. BioNTech was strictly focused on personalized cancer medicines and immunotherapies and in addition to their mRNA portfolio, they have a number of other therapeutic modalities like CAR-Ts and antibodies. Their target patient population was meant to be small and generally situated in controlled hospital environments where -70C storage was routine. Because of those circumstance, you can see why BioNTech never tried to work on a -20C option.
Moderna was different, they were much more focused on being a multi-modality mRNA therapeutics and since a large area of focus was on prophylactic vaccines, they needed a refrigerated option and they invested heavily in LNP development. At their June 2020 Science Day, Moderna presented extensively about their LNP screening efforts and remarked about its importance.[4] The key factor in LNP development is to have a ionizable lipid that is able to both gain a positive charge to interact with the negatively charged nucleic acid while having a neutral surface charge as a delivery vehicle.
Numbers, I thought both showed the same level of efficacy? Also, didn’t Modernas show more side effect and frankly concerning ones at around the 10% level?
Most Common Adverse Events
Reported (>2%)
Pfizer:
Fatigue (3.8%)
Headache (2.0%)
Moderna:
Fatigue (9.7%)
Myalgia (8.9%)
Arthralgia (5.2%)
Headache (4.5%)
Pain (4.1%)
This looks like a meaningful difference, but it may be just due to AE reporting protocols. Not sure yet.
The AE profile would have been scrubbed by the DSMBs. With a novel investigational product, AE attribution would be conservative. An AE is not related only if there is a clear alternate etiology. Otherwise, attribution would be at least possible.
It is worth it to try to sway people on a message board however I would not do it in person because you might create an eruption of screaming and spewing all over the store
Yes, essentially the same level of efficacy with Pfizer perhaps having a minor safety advantage (although neither vaccine was considered to have major common side effects). The storage/stability difference is a distribution issue, not an efficacy issue (unless not stored properly).
I am having an extreme freezer installed to house the vaccine in my unused dining room, next to the hospital-quality UV-C decontamination chamber I had built because I was getting tired paying hookers to sit around decontaminating for 72 hours. Their hourly rates weren't so bad, but they were going through mounds of blow while waiting, and that can add up.
This way, I can vaccinate the hookers and stop worrying (although they still need a 15-minute UV-C bath when entering the house).
This COVID thing has sure been a major imposition on me.
How can his heart be cold with all that blow constantly jump starting it?
More vaccine news, this time on the SinoVac attenuated live virus vaccine (very old school, but generally proven vaccine approach) from China and the Astra Zeneca/Oxford chimp adenovirus vector vaccine, both of which are in phase III, although these data are phase II data on preliminary safety and immune responses raised. Both of these are two-dose vaccines and expect phase III results sometime in December. The bottom line is that both appear to be pretty well-tolerated with no major side effects, but the SinoVac vaccine has not had nearly as strong of an immune response so far, while the AZ immune response looks good (particularly in the elderly, which is good) - of course, the proof will be in the results from phase III.
Derek Lowe discussed both of these today in his blog, below, which is based on both companies publishing papers in the Lancet today; Pfizer and Moderna published their phases I/II data in papers a few months ago, too. Remember, the Pfizer/Moderna phase III data haven't been fully published in a paper yet - all we have are company press releases - doesn't imply anything nefarious, but it's just a reminder that we need to see the full data set on safety and efficacy before approving them, which will hopefully be soon. The two Lancet papers are also linked below.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli...more-vaccine-data-in-advance-of-more-efficacy
Sinovac Link: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30843-4/fulltext
AZ Link: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32466-1/fulltext
One more comment. The J&J phase III trial with their single dose human adenovirus vector vaccine is still ongoing, but they just recently decided to start another phase III study using a two-dose approach, which tells me they're concerned that they'll need the two doses to match Pfizer/Moderna. It's good to have what appear to be two highly effective and safe vaccines ready to roll out and several more getting close. We're likely going to need them all.
https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson...ial-of-its-janssen-covid-19-vaccine-candidate
Derek Lowe discussed both of these today in his blog, below, which is based on both companies publishing papers in the Lancet today; Pfizer and Moderna published their phases I/II data in papers a few months ago, too. Remember, the Pfizer/Moderna phase III data haven't been fully published in a paper yet - all we have are company press releases - doesn't imply anything nefarious, but it's just a reminder that we need to see the full data set on safety and efficacy before approving them, which will hopefully be soon. The two Lancet papers are also linked below.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli...more-vaccine-data-in-advance-of-more-efficacy
Sinovac Link: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30843-4/fulltext
AZ Link: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32466-1/fulltext
One more comment. The J&J phase III trial with their single dose human adenovirus vector vaccine is still ongoing, but they just recently decided to start another phase III study using a two-dose approach, which tells me they're concerned that they'll need the two doses to match Pfizer/Moderna. It's good to have what appear to be two highly effective and safe vaccines ready to roll out and several more getting close. We're likely going to need them all.
https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson...ial-of-its-janssen-covid-19-vaccine-candidate
You still owe us a big blowout party - hookers and blow and vaccines and a little UV would certainly be novel...
This North East NJ hospital I work at just received Bamlanivimab. The FDA issued a Emergency Use Authorization for Eli Lilly's monoclonal antibody treatment. It's authorized for mild-moderate cases who are at high risk to become severe. These patients are not admitted to the hospital. The infusion takes about 30 minutes to prepare, an hour to infuse, with another hour observation. 12 yo and 88 lbs and up.
Moderna CEO on vaccine and other topics.
Moderna CEO Warns COVID Vaccine ‘Is Not A Silver Bullet’
Moderna CEO says the vaccine is “not a silver bullet” and that public health measures, like masks, are extremely important Moderna and Pfizer are neck and neck in the race to distribute the COVID-19 vaccine and while the imminent vaccine is a huge deal, Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel says that he...
www.yahoo.com
Nick was the picture of health. He had no underlying health problems and would not be considered high risk by any means. This past November he ran his 83rd full marathon. In fact, he had run so many New York City Marathons (15!) he was now guaranteed entry for life’, his cousin
“I wanted to honor Nick by sharing his COVID19 story as a way to spread the word and help save lives,” she said. “Nick was the picture of health. He had no underlying health problems and would not be considered high risk by any means. This past November he ran his 83rd full marathon. In fact, he had run so many New York City Marathons (15!) he was now guaranteed entry for life.”
Mulpramook said that initially, Jesdanun wasn’t sick enough to be in the hospital after testing positive for the virus, instead staying “in his apartment in complete isolation.”
After about a week of improvement, Jesdanun went to the doctor, Mulpramook said, and “his lungs were clear, and all vitals were in good range.”
However, Jesdanun’s health took a sudden turn for the worse last Wednesday, Mulpramook said. Jesdanun ended up in the emergency room in the early hours of last Thursday morning “with some breathing issues.”
Mulpramook wrote, “13 hours later we lost him.”
Mulpramook said that out of a “range of emotions,” anger is what she is “feeling most.”
“Anger at all the people I see STILL not taking this virus seriously. All the people who think they are invincible, because they are young or healthy or arrogant,” she wrote. “What I wanted to do today was share a story of SOMEONE YOU KNOW PERSONALLY losing a family member to this virus.”
Just a question regarding his physical health prior to his death. At the 7 day mark was he re- tested for the virus? Was he given any meds? When did this occur ...early fall... early winter...spring.. The treating of the virus today is much better, much different. As a long distance runner( she say’s in peak shape with no conditions) how much did he weigh. After a virus his immune system was probably in jeopardy. Maybe just an unfortunate run of luck. If you are not in the 99.9 % survival group then this athlete could do no more. How old was Nick? We all have a time... The issue is not death which has been the centric focus. We should be telling the stories which bring hope to us all.
I'm guessing you are talking about the person in the linked story, because your information was randomly interspersed in the form of a response to the Tweets in my post. I don't think I ever said (or the doctor represented) that healthy people do not get serious symptoms and die from covid. And I don't think you are going to debate or doubt the fact that your chances are much worse of getting severely ill and dying after contracting covid if you are obese, have diabetes and/or CVD. Also, there are otherwise healthy people who have compromised immune systems or lung issues. But they would not appear to be unhealthy.
Perhaps you missed (or at least blunted) the point of my post. People should do what they can to eat better, exercise and take care of themselves. No, it does not make you covid-proof or bullet proof, but like wearing a seatbelt while driving or wearing a bullet proof vest in a gunfight, doing so increases your change of being fatally wounded.
I hope the above does not sound argumentative or snarky. It is not intended to, and I apologize if it does.
Anick Jesdanun, longtime AP technology writer, dies at 51
He ran marathons on every continent, including Antarctica — 83 of them in all, many followed by a visit to an obscure craft brewery.
apnews.com
His death occurred at the height of the Pandemic , age 51, worse is at the time the medical fields had no clue of how to treat or how to lessen the virus destruction. The way it sounded to me was he was a younger conditioned athlete. He was in an age above 50... sorry for his death but he was not impervious because he ran for miles.Under 30 he most likely is still here .
I'm guessing you are talking about the person in the linked story, because your information was randomly interspersed in the form of a response to the Tweets in my post. I don't think I ever said (or the doctor represented) that healthy people do not get serious symptoms and die from covid. And I don't think you are going to debate or doubt the fact that your chances are much worse of getting severely ill and dying after contracting covid if you are obese, have diabetes and/or CVD. Also, there are otherwise healthy people who have compromised immune systems or lung issues. But they would not appear to be unhealthy.
Perhaps you missed (or at least blunted) the point of my post. People should do what they can to eat better, exercise and take care of themselves. No, it does not make you covid-proof or bullet proof, but like wearing a seatbelt while driving or wearing a bullet proof vest in a gunfight, doing so increases your change of being fatally wounded.
I hope the above does not sound argumentative or snarky. It is not intended to, and I apologize if it does.
Anick Jesdanun, longtime AP technology writer, dies at 51
He ran marathons on every continent, including Antarctica — 83 of them in all, many followed by a visit to an obscure craft brewery.
The doctor represented the following (copied from your post):
Observations since Feb 2020 Not a single healthy/fit person has had concerning covid symptoms. Literally all critical Covid patients had some combo of: Obesity, diabetes, sedentary lifestyle, poor cardiovascular health, etc.
I'm guessing you are talking about the person in the linked story, because your information was randomly interspersed in the form of a response to the Tweets in my post. I don't think I ever said (or the doctor represented) that healthy people do not get serious symptoms and die from covid. And I don't think you are going to debate or doubt the fact that your chances are much worse of getting severely ill and dying after contracting covid if you are obese, have diabetes and/or CVD. Also, there are otherwise healthy people who have compromised immune systems or lung issues. But they would not appear to be unhealthy.
Perhaps you missed (or at least blunted) the point of my post. People should do what they can to eat better, exercise and take care of themselves. No, it does not make you covid-proof or bullet proof, but like wearing a seatbelt while driving or wearing a bullet proof vest in a gunfight, doing so increases your change of being fatally wounded.
I hope the above does not sound argumentative or snarky. It is not intended to, and I apologize if it does.
Anick Jesdanun, longtime AP technology writer, dies at 51
He ran marathons on every continent, including Antarctica — 83 of them in all, many followed by a visit to an obscure craft brewery.
no
you r great. that doc made stupid statement regarding absolutely no cases.
Those were HIS patients, and an observation, not a FIRM conclusion in a medical journal. But the medical journals have detailed at length co-morbidity due to obesity, diabetes and and CVD.
I don't think he was trying to extrapolate or seek publication in the Lancet or NEJM. I think he was just saying. OTOH, I see plenty of docs taking firm positions on a host of observations in their practice. Not a good practice forMDs, IMO.
You are assuming he is solely referring to his patients. It’s not clear from what he wrote. So, yes, it certainly could be implied that he thinks no one who is fit and healthy had adverse effects. If he meant only his patients, he should clearly state it.
i take your points - pursuing a healthy lifestyle and diet are good ways to limit exposure to severe COVID illness. Of course, it doesn’t eliminate such exposure, and I believe the group of people against proper public health measures latch onto the inaccurate statement made by that doctor to support their societally dangerous behavior,
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Lol so disingenuous taking extreme outliers to make a point...look see anyone can die..thats simply fear porn
Knightshifts posting of the doctors tweets are what we need more of not less
Knightshifts posting of the doctors tweets are what we need more of not less
Masks DON'T stop the spread of Covid, top experts say
Oxford University's Professor Carl Heneghan and Dr Tom Jefferson said there had been 'a troubling lack of robust evidence on face masks and Covid-19'.
Thanks Bac, another study confirming masks help with a 15% reduction in getting covid. Unfortunately, it doesn’t discuss severity of disease or the spread to others. In both of those cases, masks have proven beneficial and why nearly all scientists and policy makers agree on the topic. Thx Bac
Re-read his tweets. He said:
"Below is what I recommend in order to prevent a bad outcome from a Covid19 infection. (Based on front line observations)". . .. . "Observations since Feb 2020"--this is clear that they are his personal FRONT LINE observations. Twitter has a limit of characters per tweet, and he did not expound. I don't even know this doctor, and I have no idea why I am defending him.
I made no assumptions. I read and interpreted his clear message. You are the one masking as ASS out U and ME.
Based on your other posts, it's not hard to believe you want to take issue with what this good doctor tweeted.
Masks DON'T stop the spread of Covid, top experts say
Oxford University's Professor Carl Heneghan and Dr Tom Jefferson said there had been 'a troubling lack of robust evidence on face masks and Covid-19'.www.dailymail.co.uk
Maybe read the article you posted to completion. You are capable of doing that since you posted the dramatic headline. Better yet, maybe spend a day with me in a couple weeks from now. Take off your mask and take in a nice viral load. I just now saw a secretary who went back to middle school not long ago (she said they are shutting again) and her vice principal is infected. They occupy a smallish office, variably mask like others/nobody is perfect and although she was mildly ill with documented covid in april - she is now infected again, but this time she is quite ill and dropping her pulse ox into the high 80s. And we will spend the weekend hoping she turns the corner and avoids hospitalization. And yes, she is overweight with alittlebitasyndrome - a little bit of this and a little of that, but who isn't these days. The amount of infections in the last week has been ridiculous. And from my observations, people are coming in and out of the hospital quicker for a variety of reasons. It is not that we are better at treating them - but better at "not treating them" and are more patient. We have been using steroids on more severely ill patients all along - nothing new there. Other therapies being rolled out are not ready for prime time yet. Dying from covid is not a true measure of its detrimental effects. You take in a good viral load, and if you are immunologically vulnerable for reasons not fully understood yet, and you will get very ill and you will be humbled. You won't likely die, but you will be humbled.
If that study is proved to be true. The great possibility exists that masks if not washed properly and often as well as the surgical types not being changed more frequently definitely leads to more cases . Especially when an outbreak such as we had back in spring or currently begins. But they would never dare admit this. Maybe in 50 years when most are dead and gone.
Sorry, Frida's point is valid. If one looks at the tweets as you posted them, there's no clear connection between "front line observations" (and even there he doesn't say they're just his) and what's 4 tweets down in your post, i.e., "Observations since Feb 2020 Not a single healthy/fit person has had concerning covid symptoms. Literally all critical Covid patients had some combo of: Obesity, diabetes, sedentary lifestyle, poor cardiovascular health, etc. "Re-read his tweets. He said:
"Below is what I recommend in order to prevent a bad outcome from a Covid19 infection. (Based on front line observations)". . .. . "Observations since Feb 2020"--this is clear that they are his personal FRONT LINE observations. Twitter has a limit of characters per tweet, and he did not expound. I don't even know this doctor, and I have no idea why I am defending him.
I made no assumptions. I read and interpreted his clear message. You are the one masking as ASS out U and ME.
Based on your other posts, it's not hard to believe you want to take issue with what this good doctor tweeted.
It's easy to interpret this as some more broadly applicable general medical observations since Feb 2020, not just his observations. If one actually goes to the tweets it's slightly more clear that he means just his observations since Feb 2020, but all he needs to add is "my" observations to make it crystal clear and he didn't, which is why his tweets can be misinterpreted from what I'm sure he intended. Twitter isn't at fault for him not adding "my," although Twitter just sucks, in general, for trying to communicate scientific/medical findings.
Stopped reading after you said, Sorry, Frida's point is valid. Some of you people are insufferable. You just want to jump to conclusions and discredit positions you agree without taking a short statement (a tweet) in context. Next time, we should demand a quadruple blind RCT to support a tweet based on a pratcititioner's personal observation that he made clear. Frida is on ignore now.
Re-read his tweets. He said:
"Below is what I recommend in order to prevent a bad outcome from a Covid19 infection. (Based on front line observations)". . .. . "Observations since Feb 2020"--this is clear that they are his personal FRONT LINE observations. Twitter has a limit of characters per tweet, and he did not expound. I don't even know this doctor, and I have no idea why I am defending him.
I made no assumptions. I read and interpreted his clear message. You are the one masking as ASS out U and ME.
Based on your other posts, it's not hard to believe you want to take issue with what this good doctor tweeted.
I am surprised my response elicited such an emotional response from you. It was not my intention. Rather, my intention was to point out that the doctors tweet, well intentioned as it may have been, was poorly worded and, as such, could be taken to imply that healthy, fit people are in no danger from the seceded effects of COVID. Nor was I the only one who held that view. Of course, the danger being that his words would be used to support poor choices. Certainly the doctor would not want that to occur. But he needs to be more careful in his choice of words, because, apparently, people will follow him. Look no further than your post quoting his tweets.
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