My post had zero to do with any "position." It was purely based on language and context and as a lawyer, you should understand and respect that. The tweets were not crystal clear, end of story.
OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more
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Follow-up on the FDA meeting to review the Emergency Use Authorization: the FDA has scheduled a 12/10 meeting to review the Pfizer/BioNTech EUA application. They didn't say they'll also be reviewing the Moderna EUA, which is what Endpoints thought was going to happen at the same time (see above), although maybe they've decided to meet separately on each. We should see the first vaccines rolling out before Christmas.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...ry-committee-meeting-discuss-covid-19-vaccine
RU#s,
First I want to start off by saying that you’re a great resource on discussing, procuring opinions, explaining, validating, invalidating, demystifying scientific problems, data and summarizing the scientific community efforts to come up with solutions to scientific problems facing us on a daily basis. As a long time participant of this site I really appreciate the ability to get my RU athletics fix and clarity on the real life scientific challenges we are facing all on one website.
My question to you is whether exposing study participants to the Covid-19 virus [either pre or post vaccine injection] part of the Moderna/Pfizer clinical trial process to determine or validate immunity of the participant from the virus? Or is the vaccine a way to prevent an individual who has never been infected by the virus from ever “getting it” [for lack of a better way of putting] and all the symptoms that come with it?
Thank you for your continued efforts and look forward to your response.
GO RU
First I want to start off by saying that you’re a great resource on discussing, procuring opinions, explaining, validating, invalidating, demystifying scientific problems, data and summarizing the scientific community efforts to come up with solutions to scientific problems facing us on a daily basis. As a long time participant of this site I really appreciate the ability to get my RU athletics fix and clarity on the real life scientific challenges we are facing all on one website.
My question to you is whether exposing study participants to the Covid-19 virus [either pre or post vaccine injection] part of the Moderna/Pfizer clinical trial process to determine or validate immunity of the participant from the virus? Or is the vaccine a way to prevent an individual who has never been infected by the virus from ever “getting it” [for lack of a better way of putting] and all the symptoms that come with it?
Thank you for your continued efforts and look forward to your response.
GO RU
LOL. I'm numbers, I never yield and inch. I'm always right. Re-read the tweets and the bolded parts. They were clearly based on his observational experience in his practice. Perhaps the pharma cartel does not like to see people be well and avoid disease by living a healthy lifestyle through diet and exercise. Sells less drugs and makes less money for the pharma cartel. This was my direct experience with the statin pushers. Instead of hanging their hats and waiting for a vaccine, some people would be better off working on reducing their chances of serious outcomes.
this. Now not being morbidly obese, hypertensive, and correcting diet so as not to be a type 2 diabetic would be even more effective. But suggesting people-be more healthy. Crazy
+1
Our unhealthy population is our biggest threat (regarding the virus). Hoping this is a wake-up call for many.
Not in the US. We have the tech for this without a problem (except in some very rural areas). Other countries, yes, it will be a problem.
No, neither trial was a human challenge study. Both consisted of naïve/virus free patients. Randomized to either get the real vaccine or placebo (i.e., fake vaccine). Then sent back into the real world and tracked to see what happens (who gets infected and compare).
We may have the tech but not the capacity. Was talked about on ABC News. Most hospitals have these but are countertop to small refrig size. IIRC there are six doses in each viral and they must be broken down into individual doses by adding a saline solution. Then you just have hours to use it. So you can't make batches ahead of time.
The wording of the doctor’s text was imprecise. Several posters share that view. Pointing that out, and having a difference of opinion on his written words, hardly seems ground for your responses considering no one has accused him of trying to intentionally mislead. Yes, you are in better shape to whether COVID if you are physically fit,. Of course, that’s hardly helpful to a large portion of the population who are not currently fit. They may take the advice offered, and still not be able to improve enough during the duration of the pandemic meaningfully reduce their risk. Doesn’t mean they should not try.
The underlying message seized upon by many is that those who are at risk bear the responsibility of their lifestyle choices, and that society should shrug them off. A meaningful number of people take that libertarian view, and that’s why his imprecise language needs to be addressed and corrected.
If the above is troubling to you, then, for the good of this thread (thanks, numbers), it might be time for you to take a break.
The fact that people can read those tweets and have such radically, almost opposite conclusions about 140 characters sums up our country quite well. As always, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.
However, it turns out that a recent mutation in the virus might make vaccines more effective. The mutation lets the virus get into cells more easily but by doing so lets antibodies get in more easily, too.
This is a silly disagreement, the tweet implies healthy people don’t get covid. I’m sure he doesn’t mean that but that’s what it says.
Living a healthy lifestyle helps with all sorts of diseases. What’s the point? Do we think people who have ignored this decades old guidance are suddenly going to get religion? Regrading covid, masks, social distancing. Therapeutics and vaccines are going to make the difference in the year we have with this virus. Yes, we all need to eat healthy and exercise. But that’s not going to change the trajectory of this virus.
Yes they actually have done the evaluation of the 71 hospitals in NJ and the majority have the capability to store and distribute it. All of the RWJ hospitals are equipped. It’s certainly not as much a barrier to delivery especially here in NJ. Personally my wife is a hospital pharmacist in NJ and they are basically ready to roll and distribute and have been for 2 months.
i retract my random impulse post about the marathon runner who died of covid. just that my immediate reaction to that doc's statement was one of astonishment - that he was FOS for whatever reason. but it could very well be he has a boutique or speciality type practice or just doesn't see many covid cases. idk..his experience is what it is. Im totally in agreement with fitness as best defense for most of our ills. and i hate the excessive media focus on death, blame - its cost me and others loss of staff;some patients hiding in their basements to their own detriment adding to collateral damage. But, i would be remiss in not relating cases I've personally treated who have had ZERO medical problems who got very ill. yes, a few died. you really want to hear all about the 45 yo pt nl bmi, no meds, no pmhx, exercised regularly who developed typical flu syndrome, got better and went into resp arrest suddenly on day 10, vented, clotted off and lost his feet and ultimately died. and yes he got the full monty of therapies. family didnt know what hit them, unprepared and sick themselves. its upsetting to rehash such tragic, unexpectedly unexplainable cases even if a minority. i could also tell you about train wrecks medically, who i thought had no chance, but barely developed any symptoms. all sorts of varied, unpredictable presentations.
its the variance that makes this thing worrisome and headscratching and novel. at least for myself. and now reinfections appearing 6 months later. wtf ? r u kidding. wake me up and tell me im dreaming.really, wtf does immunity look like ?
Medical/frontline staff have died, many are exhausted, and this is all going to cause a domino effect.
this virus is so damn contagious and it has multiple personalities. steamrolls nursing home patients, barely touches teens on spring break, and variably - albeit infrequently picks off others for obvious and not so obvious reasons. my personal feeling is that viral load is big deal. not getting involved in the great Denmask debate. somewhat ambivalent about vaccine success in achieving herd immunity. many i survey won't take it. hope im wrong.
Thank you. Especially the part about: "i hate the excessive media focus on death, blame - its cost me and others loss of staff;some patients hiding in their basements to their own detriment adding to collateral damage." I have related the second part a couple of times about people close to me with cancer not going for treatment because of covid. I have friends who work in health care who tell me numerous people have left the profession because of covid. Even had someone question why my son and I continue to volunteer for the fire department and first aid squad because "it's too dangerous to risk your life for." What kind of message does that send-don't help your fellow citizens and only take care of yourself? Have said many times that there was a glimmer of hope mankind (not just this country) would come together to fight this, the way we did after 9/11. But the nature of media and social media just continually harps on death and blame, and there is plenty of blame to go around.
There seems to be so little focus on hope and on individuals doing things to improve their chances against covid and other diseases such as diabetes or heart disease without covid. The complete lack of focus on nutrition by family practitioners is mind boggling. Nobody ever said healthy people are impervious to death because they are healthy--but statistically, their chances are better. One doctor sends a tweet saying as much based on his own observational, and some board experts want to dissect what was tweeted and criticize, criticize, criticize.
+1
Pfizer will have no trouble with the vaccine in the US and our distribution system is fine.
Folks are not getting reinfected. Practically every story of "reinfection" has been debunked as inaccurate tests or just plain BS. Millions and millions have gotten the virus already. If reinfections were possible to any meaningful degree, we would have seen it a long, long time ago.
The data on the vaccines are awesome, amazing efficacy. Will people need a booster down the road? We shall see. This is why the trial patients will be tracked for multiple years.
Very, very rare cases of reinfection. In fact doctors believe it’s not reinfection but lingering strands.
Hopefully you are equally alarmed at certain media outlets who undermine science and healthcare policy.
i have one right now. the school secretary i am following. i was as shocked as anyone about the reinfection. exposed to covid positive sick husband in march (he is police or fireman, i forget.) she became mildly ill then and we got her with labcorp with positive Igm and Igg indicating recent infection/exposure. she recovers and is her usual self thru summer and goes to school and is hit with big viral load in small working space by her Covid-19 sick vice princ last week.
and we grab a pcr few days ago and it is positive and she is more ill this time. these types of cases popping up now infrequently. she is not fit and she has issues inc RA on low dose prednisone, mtx. So, this needs to be factored in. Outlier, likely. Nonetheless, pretty eye opening.i can not genomically prove this is not reactivation of latent infection/carrier state that she never cleared in 6 plus months. But, clinically she got reinfection if you follow the mystery in the history.hearing more of these stories from my peers since i discussed her case with colleagues locally and my cousin at univ calif san diego chief pediatric ID and wife head of molecular biology/virology. "interesting, not shocked". So, you might have questioned whether she produced antibodies with her first infection and that would have been a valid question. she clearly did. she had been in quarantine, it was very difficult to get a viral test on her back then. but we have her husband's and we have her antibody profile then. and now we have her PCR with new illness. questioning vaccine efficacy overall using her case is tough given her patient profile. but still a fair question.
it is fair to question if her first illness was really not covid since no documented pcr on her (despite + husband) and that her antibodies were false positive but IgM was positive w igG which was really telling.
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Because there are millions who follow this idea that ONLY they are correct On covid19. Those changelings want to be able to say , “ see I was right, you were wrong .” People who will never admit or submit to a two party logical discussion. Those type folks started back at the time of the American Revolution. It is sad the way people have become dramatically opposed to understanding the simple fact ....there will always be disagreement. It is why we are still the best as a country....Not China, not Russia , not Germany, not France , not England , not Japan , not S. Korea and certainly not Canada.
That is a very curious case. Has there been any observational correlation of inflammation a susceptibility to re-infection? The data set is probably far too small.
Back to the marathon runner, there have been studies that "overexercisers" (marathon runners, extreme athletes, etc) who exercise hard and long late into their lives (post 40s) are damaging their hearts. A comment under the video linked below said it pretty well: "limit one’s vigorous exercise to 30– 50 min/day. If one really wants to do a marathon or full-distance triathlon etc, it may be best to do just one or a few and then proceed to safer and healthier exercise patterns. On the other hand, light or moderate intensity exercise does not present the dose-dependent risks associated with excessive endurance exercise." Dr. James O'Keefe, a prominent preventative cardiologist, is in the video below.
Maybe it's completely unrelated, but perhaps it could be with young athletes and concern about heart ailments and covid-19.
Coronavirus Disease 2019 and the Athletic Heart
This Special Communication summarizes findings to date on the approach for return to play in athletes in various age groups who have recovered from coronavirus disease 2019.
jamanetwork.com
Penn St.'s Brown retiring due to heart condition
Penn State running back Journey Brown will retire from football after being diagnosed with a heart ailment known as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
There is a lot we do not know (and we may never know) about Covid-19.
I think the initial viral dose is probably a significant factor but obviously not the only one. I don't know if anyone has done any studies looking at this? Would obviously be tough to do but if viral dose was a big factor, I'd expect to see people who spent long periods of time in close contact with known cases get sicker/have worse outcomes. For instance, spouses of people who get sick, I'd expect them to do worse since most people don't wear masks in their houses. So if you're cooped up in a house with your spouse for several days while they are pre-symptomatic but spewing virus, you might be expected to wind up with a more severe case (everything else being equal).
I'll get the vaccine when it is available, though I suspect that will still be quite a few months since I don't have a front-line type job and am not old enough (and no known co-morbidities) to be in the high risk group. If I get a choice I'll probably opt for one that does NOT require -80 deg storage just because of the risk of something happening in transit/storage that might reduce the effectiveness.
We most definitely should allow all voices to speak on covid including allowing those with concerns about the economy and mental health to be heard. Instead its become a total political event where the loudest voice are shaming anyone disagreeing while posting anecdotal stories of younger healthy people dying to acheive their methods. We have some clinging to case numbers with no context to who is hospitalized and dying. We have some ignoring any societal and economic impact. Questions need to be asked. More needs to researched on asymptomatic spread...and on mask wearing. Science used to have an exchange ideas. Notable scientists are getting shunned and banned from social media and speaking events because they are raising common sense questions.
When politicians are putting random lockdowns on businesses, freedoms, your ability to gather with family on a freakin holiday. Yes that is dangerous.
agree, there could be some one off cases, but to actually be pushing a theory of reinfection spread like Pmvon is doing is not based on any science....see the study that came out last week about immunity perhaps for years
wut? pivot? whataboutism? Have no idea what my post has to do with your comment. worry about yourself.
Did the 51 year old marathoner runner die from the same thing as the late Jim Fixx or possibly have early arterial-sclerosis ? Because you run does not mean being in top physical health. Was there an undiagnosed condition which made it appear as a re infection? Some of these positive cases have shown the viruses length of time can be different. Perhaps lying dormant only to reappear weeks later even after testing clean?
They don't have to because you'll do it 10 x over.
Personally I'm much more interested in what the doctor actually working with Covid has to say about his actual experience.
You only focus on deaths and the discussion goes back and forth. I’d like to hear you address the hospitalization numbers that prevent non-COVID patients from receiving life saving treatment.?? Although they are not technically COVID deaths, they are indirect victims. Should we abandon masks and any attempts at mitigation and just live with the collateral damage?
For those of you who know medical professionals what do they say about covid? The ones I know are concerned about it and believe mask wearing is important and at times it is reasonable to have limitations on crowds at indoor events
So now we are blaming the not wearing of masks for the deaths related to covid 19 and people who don’t schedule “ life” saving treatments? Because hospitals became full... Here is something to chew on... When they reconstructed the Javits Center in NYC it was literally hardly used. When the Naval Hosputal ship arrived in NYC Harbor it was sadly hardly used... The original objective was to send patients to these two facilities in order to do those things you just spoke about. It would have freed up space for those who needed more sophisticated procedures in places like MSK , HSS etc. They were barely used... That is exactly why people don’t buy that reasoning after seeing the NY Governor and Mayor F it up . I mean let’s give credit to those two shills. I would add a number of other states who were negligent in their states but it’s being repeated ....New Jersey and NY will lead the 2nd wave... Truth be told NY , NJ, Florida , Texas, California , are responsible for over 100k deaths... in wave number 2 they will lead as well . They did not learn a damn thing. That’s not my rant ... check with the NJ.com .
Like OTB and Casinos is that what you mean? These places also need to be closed ... if you are closing gyms, restaurants , non essential stores etc. then close that too.
Newly published paper in Immunology Letters. Intermittent fasting, a possible priming tool for host defense against SARS-CoV-2 infection: Crosstalk among calorie restriction, autophagy and immune response
"Since no specific drug has yet been discovered, strengthening immunity along with maintaining a healthy living is the best way to survive this disease. As a healthy practice, calorie restriction in the form of intermittent fasting (IF) in several clinical settings has been reported to promote several health benefits, including priming of the immune response." This review aimed at revisiting the immunomodulatory potential of IF that may constitute a promising preventive approach against COVID-19.
Eileen White, Chief Scientific Officer at the Rutgers Cancer Institute, researches similar phenomena and the fundamental role of autophagy in the maintenance of health and prevention of neurodegeneration, cancer, and other diseases.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Since no specific drug has yet been discovered, strengthening immunity along with maintaining a healthy living is the best way to survive this disease. As a healthy practice, calorie restriction in the form of intermittent fasting (IF) in several clinical settings has been reported to promote several health benefits, including priming of the immune response." This review aimed at revisiting the immunomodulatory potential of IF that may constitute a promising preventive approach against COVID-19.
Eileen White, Chief Scientific Officer at the Rutgers Cancer Institute, researches similar phenomena and the fundamental role of autophagy in the maintenance of health and prevention of neurodegeneration, cancer, and other diseases.
Intermittent fasting, a possible priming tool for host defense against SARS-CoV-2 infection: Crosstalk among calorie restriction, autophagy and immune response
Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) is the causative pathogen of deadly Coronavirus disease-19 (COVID-19) pandemic, which emerged as a major threat to public health across the world. Although there is no clear gender or socioeconomic ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
So let’s see 260 k deaths and 1/2 are spread amongst New York 34 k ... New Jersey 16k... Texas 21 k.... California 18k ... Illinois 11 k ... Massachusetts 10 k... rounded off to nearest whole number. So 42% of the deaths in 6 states... now if we add in the next 2 highest Georgia and Pennsylvania we are up to 129 k out of 260k in 8 states. Very telling since it would appear our own area is rapidly reverting back. Did not learn a thing over 10 months ...The best is nursing facilities count hospital deaths related to COVID 19 not to their bottom line... now that speaks volumes.
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