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OT: COVID Science - Pfizer/Moderna vaccines >90% effective; Regeneron antibody cocktail looks very promising in phase II/III trial and more

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This is not a COVID related post, but since we've kicked around some interesting medical/science topics in this thread, thought some folks might find the latest on "virotherapy," the use of directed viruses to help treat/reduce cancerous tumors, to be of interest. The technology has shown some promise, but not consistently, which is not unusual for new treatment technologies. However, quite a few scientists think this could become a huge field in the next 10 years for cancer treatment. The gist of it is below. Cool stuff.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41...k2DpfFsH1jt_u4XRDhLemT8eMm4t-rN7dzoZ0blneR6Ko

Calling the immune system
The viruses that researchers use are called oncolytic because they destroy, or lyse, the tumour cells that they infect. The viruses also use the tumour cells as factories to produce even more virus particles that spreads to neighbouring cells, killing large areas of the tumour in a few days. Bartee says the virus works from the middle outward: “You make these tumours implode on themselves.” But the effect is only temporary. “The cells you never infected come right back, almost immediately,” Bartee says.

Virotherapy has a second effect, however, that has surprised researchers. The immune system ‘sees’ the infection and activates immune cells such as T cells, which attack not only the infected cells but also any abnormal cells — including uninfected tumour cells. After the virus makes the tumour implode, T cells can penetrate it more easily, finding and cleaning up remaining tumour cells.

When researchers realized that the immune system was helping to attack the tumour, Bartee says the field completely reversed its perspective on this approach to therapy. “They were looking for ways to kill the immune system off because the immune system stopped the replication of virus,” he says. “Now, they are looking at using virus in combination with things that drive the immune system even more.”
 
A simple dose-response relationship likely has little to do with the results seen for the Astra-Zeneca/Oxford vaccine, though. Much more likely is what Derek Lowe said this morning in his blog on this vaccine, below. The issue of the adenovirus vector (even a chimp adenovirus which humans haven't been exposed to) stimulating the human immune response with the first dose and then having the body's "new" antibodies essentially deactivating the 2nd dose (and will possibly also be an issue for J&J's vaccine which uses a human adenovirus as its vector of delivery) has been talked about since day one. Let's hope the 90% efficacy for the half-dose/full-dose design holds when we see more data on this one.

Also, none of the vaccinated patients who became infected with the virus had serious illnesses (only 1 such case for Pfizer and 0 for Moderna - need final data to be sure this difference is real), which is very good. Also, the AZ vaccine is stable under refrigerated conditions vs. cyro storage for Pfizer's (-70C/-94F) and regular freezer (-20C/-4F, with one month refrigerated ok, for Moderna). There were no major side effects seen for any of the vaccines to date, which is great.

Why might there be such a significant split in efficacy? My own wild guess is that perhaps the two-full-dose protocol raised too many antibodies to the adenovirus vector itself, and made the second dose less effective. This has always been a concern with the viral-vector idea. It is, in fact, why this effort is using a chimpanzee adenovirus – because humans haven’t been exposed to it yet. Earlier work in this field kicked off with more common human-infective adenoviruses (particularly Ad5), but there are significant numbers of people in most global populations who have already had that viral infection and have immune memory for it. Dosing people with an Ad5 vector would then run into patients whose immune systems slap down the vaccine before it has a chance to work. That’s not the case for a chimpanzee-infecting form, naturally (few if any people have ever been exposed to that one!) but the two-dose regime may have run into just that problem. Immunology being what it is, though, there are surely other explanations, but that’s the one that occurs to me. Update: there’s always the outside nasty chance that the smaller N in the 90% group is giving a number that won’t hold up. I would hope this isn’t the case, but without a better look at the statistics, it’s not possible to rule that out.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/23/oxford-az-vaccine-efficacy-data
Lots of questions have emerged on the Astra-Zeneca/Oxford vaccine over the past couple of days. Dosing errors, reporting errors, pooling data from different trials without letting people know - not a good look. My guess is the vaccine will still be shown to be quite effective at the end of all this, but these kinds of issues shouldn't be happening.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/business/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-oxford.html

A much more in-depth paper came out today on the Astra-Zeneca/Oxford adenovrius vector vaccine and results are still decidedly mixed, as per the quoted posts above (first link). Derek Lowe also blogged on these results (2nd link). It's kind of hard to know what the true efficacy will be with about 62% efficacy for two standard doses, but up to 90% efficacy for a half dose followed by a full dose (which could be real, given the body's immune response to the adenovirus carrier of the spike protein sequences). It's possible we'll just need more data on the half/full dose combo. Side effects were generally not an issue, apart from the case of trnasverse myelitis (spinal inflammation).

On the plus side, none of the infected patients who received any of the vaccine dose combos developed a serious case of COVID, while 10 placebo patients were hospitalized with one dying, and, after all, keeping people from getting seriously ill and/or dying is paramount here. However, India has already declined to grant them an emergency use authorization, which I think might be short-sighted. Given that Warp Speed contracted for more of this vaccine than any other one for the US market, we're likely going to see it get approved here and my guess is there will be people who feel they're getting an inferior vaccine vs. the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines. This is complex, tricky stuff.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeli.../the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
 
(CNN)Dr. Anthony Fauci is urging Black Americans hesitant to take the Covid-19 vaccine to trust the process -- in part because one of the scientists at the forefront of the vaccine's development is a Black woman.
 
Might be an ignorant question, but what happens after you receive the first vaccine (either single shot or double shot)? I keep hearing about efficacy percentages, but exactly how long will this immunity hold? I figure that is a major point that needs to be addressed or you run the risk of a very bad second year post-vaccine if there isn't enough product to vaccinate 3-4 billion people annually.

Secondly, if a booster is required every year will you have to continue to take the same vaccine type? In other words if your first vaccine is the Pfizer mRNA variant, do you continue to take that variant or could you switch to the adenovirus/etc variants?
 
Might be an ignorant question, but what happens after you receive the first vaccine (either single shot or double shot)? I keep hearing about efficacy percentages, but exactly how long will this immunity hold? I figure that is a major point that needs to be addressed or you run the risk of a very bad second year post-vaccine if there isn't enough product to vaccinate 3-4 billion people annually.

Secondly, if a booster is required every year will you have to continue to take the same vaccine type? In other words if your first vaccine is the Pfizer mRNA variant, do you continue to take that variant or could you switch to the adenovirus/etc variants?
I would hope that after the initial vaccination round for those able to and willing to take it we would be coming out with other therapies and improved versions of these vaccines. 2nd generation vaccines.
 
Pass.


wionews 😂

What they conveniently left out is the 1st case had nothing to do with the vaccine and the other 3 are still under review. Either way, that number is consistent with the overall population. Bell’s Palsy is not a rare condition. Covid itself can cause Bell’s Palsy.
 
wionews 😂

What they conveniently left out is the 1st case had nothing to do with the vaccine and the other 3 are still under review. Either way, that number is consistent with the overall population. Bell’s Palsy is not a rare condition. Covid itself can cause Bell’s Palsy.
Stop being a Xenophobic turd. It's an news site out India. You probably prefer CNN or the Atlantic.

Here's another link. Would not readily dismiss an laugh about such a severe side effect. You go first, smart guy.


FDA reviewers noted four cases of Bell’s palsy that occurred among people getting the vaccine. They concluded the cases were probably unrelated to the vaccine because they occurred at rates that would be expected without any medical intervention. But the agency did say cases of the nerve disorder should be tracked, given that other vaccines can cause the problem.
 
Stop being a Xenophobic turd. It's an news site out India. You probably prefer CNN or the Atlantic.

Here's another link. Would not readily dismiss an laugh about such a severe side effect. You go first, smart guy.


FDA reviewers noted four cases of Bell’s palsy that occurred among people getting the vaccine. They concluded the cases were probably unrelated to the vaccine because they occurred at rates that would be expected without any medical intervention. But the agency did say cases of the nerve disorder should be tracked, given that other vaccines can cause the problem.

We already covered this pages ago. Yes, doctors are keeping an eye out for this, but there is no evidence yet to warrant a “pass”
 
Pfizer/BioNTEch just published their vaccine trial results in the New England Journal of Medicine. Not much new, based on a quick skim, but thought it was worth posting.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.10...VHk3PT710Y6GAlucC-80tt4NpTNFusg-2sK7Ts8Gio2sA

The NEJoM also just posted a podcast with editors from the journal and an infectious disease expert about COVID vaccines and vulnerable populations. Haven't listened yet...

https://www.nejm.org/action/showMed...vSrAC-x6PYjk9RY_30qUGu-L_fC9hu_ffKfvAQGd78vAM
 
This is not a COVID related post, but since we've kicked around some interesting medical/science topics in this thread, thought some folks might find the latest on "virotherapy," the use of directed viruses to help treat/reduce cancerous tumors, to be of interest. The technology has shown some promise, but not consistently, which is not unusual for new treatment technologies. However, quite a few scientists think this could become a huge field in the next 10 years for cancer treatment. The gist of it is below. Cool stuff.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41...k2DpfFsH1jt_u4XRDhLemT8eMm4t-rN7dzoZ0blneR6Ko

Calling the immune system
The viruses that researchers use are called oncolytic because they destroy, or lyse, the tumour cells that they infect. The viruses also use the tumour cells as factories to produce even more virus particles that spreads to neighbouring cells, killing large areas of the tumour in a few days. Bartee says the virus works from the middle outward: “You make these tumours implode on themselves.” But the effect is only temporary. “The cells you never infected come right back, almost immediately,” Bartee says.

Virotherapy has a second effect, however, that has surprised researchers. The immune system ‘sees’ the infection and activates immune cells such as T cells, which attack not only the infected cells but also any abnormal cells — including uninfected tumour cells. After the virus makes the tumour implode, T cells can penetrate it more easily, finding and cleaning up remaining tumour cells.

When researchers realized that the immune system was helping to attack the tumour, Bartee says the field completely reversed its perspective on this approach to therapy. “They were looking for ways to kill the immune system off because the immune system stopped the replication of virus,” he says. “Now, they are looking at using virus in combination with things that drive the immune system even more.”

Replimmune (REPL) uses this approach to make "cold" tumors (ones not seen by the immune system "hot" (tumors that can be attacked by the immune system. This is done in combination with checkpoint inhibitors like anti-PD1. Stock has been performing quite well.
 
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Infections tore through my kid’s school. And yes, kids infected their teachers.

Unless they are old and overweight I bet they recover quite nicely. They mean even recover even if they are vunerable. I'd be more concerned that they got into a car accident and died that way.
 
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Unless they are old and overweight I bet they recover quite nicely. They mean even recover even if they are vunerable. I'd be more concerned that they got into a car accident and died that way.

And what if they are old and overweight? Many of my teachers were throughout K-12.
 
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Then why differentiate?

Let Rochead answer the question.

I’ll give my two cents since this was directed at me..

but Roc said they don’t recover as nicely. This is true with any illness Id assume. Old overweight and unhealthy people may have a harder time with every sickness.

The odds are they still recover and are fine.
 
Pfizer/BioNTEch just published their vaccine trial results in the New England Journal of Medicine. Not much new, based on a quick skim, but thought it was worth posting.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.10...VHk3PT710Y6GAlucC-80tt4NpTNFusg-2sK7Ts8Gio2sA

The NEJoM also just posted a podcast with editors from the journal and an infectious disease expert about COVID vaccines and vulnerable populations. Haven't listened yet...

https://www.nejm.org/action/showMed...vSrAC-x6PYjk9RY_30qUGu-L_fC9hu_ffKfvAQGd78vAM
For those who didn't see it, in the worst kept FDA secret ever, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine emergency use authorization was quickly approved today by the fDA advisory panel, by a 17-4 vote and it wasn't really even that close (the objections were over including 16-17 year olds). This is a huge day for medical science and vaccine research and I would expect the FDA to formally approve the EUA tomorrow, because we seriously need it. Next up is the review of Moderna's mRNA vaccine next week, which should also get its EUA approved quickly.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/10/pfi...el-recommends-approval-for-emergency-use.html
 
Pass.



wow, definitely is going to be an issue going forward, for healthy people you have more a risk of catching something you dont want to deal
 
trust the science.....bro, are you scared

Lol. You're the most frightened child of the entire pandemic. Too afraid to do anything real beyond post fake news.

When are you gonna take a real stand against government tyranny ...bro? You're about to have plenty of time on your hands.

What a joke!
 
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Lol. You're the most frightened child of the entire pandemic. Too afraid to do anything real beyond post fake news.

When are you gonna take a real stand against government tyranny ...bro? You're about to have plenty of time on your hands.

What a joke!
It's funny you believe your strange viewpoint is correct. Mental issues.
 
It's funny you believe your strange viewpoint is correct. Mental issues.

What position is that, slick?

And if that were a condition, it'd be called "White Bus." They wouldn't even add a "syndrome" or "itis" so as not to dilute perfection.
 
Flu is lower this year because it's been lower in Asia and the Southern Hemisphere due to masking and distancing, so seeding of the virus in the US, and therefore circulating virus, is also lower.
 
Lol. You're the most frightened child of the entire pandemic. Too afraid to do anything real beyond post fake news.

When are you gonna take a real stand against government tyranny ...bro? You're about to have plenty of time on your hands.

What a joke!


all the science says the schools should be opened, looks like you are on the wrong side again peddling furiously to keep up
 
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all the science says the schools should be opened, looks like you are on the wrong side again peddling furiously to keep up

Yeah, just like I was with plastic bags, right dimwit?

Hint: Your schools are still closed.

And it still doesn't matter worth a damn to you ...unless you finally decided to go back and get your GED. Sit this one out.
 
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